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Project M Social Thread Gold

Mansta

( ̄^ ̄)ゞ
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WafflePi
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Hi again PMS.
I haven't played PM since my last computer broke because I was too lazy to set it up again, I keep telling myself to do it and make models (cat sheik) again but I never do.
but who plays pm still anyway
:smirk:
 

DrinkingFood

Smash Hero
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I've always thought IC's go even with or beat wolf so...
Wolf is as good as separating them as fox and as good at punishing them when separated as fox. I think he's also got a dramatically easier time getting in than the other spacies. Laser wavelands means they're forced to shoot ice blocks in an attempt to eat the lasers, but then wolf can go in over them without fear of getting blizzard walled. He's also got probably the best throws for dealing with two characters at once, since dthrow/fthrow both have knockdown strength hitboxes (uthrow has a hitbox too, tho above him for niche scenarios), both of them move him a significant amount (dthrow moves him over any grounded ICies move except usmash and utilt right before the hitbox comes out below, while fthrow walks him forward two wolf lengths right before the hitbox comes out in front of him), and all his throws combo in the right scenario (except maybe dthrow which is slow enough on start-up to always get tech-chase DI).
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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Fox separates and deals with ic's so easily because of his momentum/speed/dairshine. Desynched IB forces wolf into an obvious approach(either sh nair shine, or full hop dair, sh dair/fair gets bodied on reaction), both of which uair stuffs. The amount of grabs I've gotten on characters jumping over desynched IB's is absurd, and wolf is by far the worst at approaching IC's of the spacies considering his laser does almost nothing for him in the match-up. Wolf is left with trying to crossup shine or catch wavedashes with dash attacks to start things, and in general has to commit a lot more to his approaches than Fox/Falco vs IC's. He's better off playing defensively with bairs as IC's can't punish it on shield, but they can just gain stage control and it's a losing battle either way. I don't really see any advantage wolf has over falco/fox in the match-up. His combos are worse, he's easier to grab, and his approach sucks vs IC's. Jab stuffs pretty much his entire moveset and shines being CCable makes getting grabs a laughing matter.
 

DrinkingFood

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Fox separates and deals with ic's so easily because of his momentum/speed/dairshine. Desynched IB forces wolf into an obvious approach(either sh nair shine, or full hop dair, sh dair/fair gets bodied on reaction), both of which uair stuffs. The amount of grabs I've gotten on characters jumping over desynched IB's is absurd, and wolf is by far the worst at approaching IC's of the spacies considering his laser does almost nothing for him in the match-up. Wolf is left with trying to crossup shine or catch wavedashes with dash attacks to start things, and in general has to commit a lot more to his approaches than Fox/Falco vs IC's. He's better off playing defensively with bairs as IC's can't punish it on shield, but they can just gain stage control and it's a losing battle either way. I don't really see any advantage wolf has over falco/fox in the match-up. His combos are worse, he's easier to grab, and his approach sucks vs IC's. Jab stuffs pretty much his entire moveset and shines being CCable makes getting grabs a laughing matter.
Wolf's nair shine is not very different from fox's dair shine lol, in fact I'd say it's better since wolf's jumps keep more momentum and have better drifting ability. Wolf jumps way farther than fox, and their dashes are almost identical (see pics), so I dunno what fox's speed/momentum have to do with the comparison except that wolf is as good as him here or better. Wolf's combos are absolutely not worse either, lol. He combos much like falcon with shine but a less reliable knee, while having throws that actually work on synced ICies (and a laser than can maintain tremendous advantage in the rare scenario he can't reach for a stronger punish extension). Also wolf is the worst defensively of the spacies; his best tool for it is lasers since they slow down approaches, but lack of lingering hurtboxes leaves him with lots of vulnerable frames during any attempts at walling. I agree that bair is good but without lingering frames it loses a lot of the coverage that's important to making those defensively positioned SHs safe.

Dash distance after 10 frames (lined up by the second floor edge)
Wolf v fox, 10 frames dashing, distance difference.png


Run distances after 30 frames (lined up the same way)
30 frames of dashing, difference fox v wolf.png




I'd argue that any advantages Fox has a a character in general over wolf (barely any) aren't nearly as valuable against ICies as they are against most characters- the major one being hitbox coverage which doesn't matter nearly as much against ICies since throwing out hitboxes against their shield or their CC works worse compared to single characters.
 
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Hylian

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Dairshine is for wolf is wayyy worse if only because IC's can CC it. Might be the hitboxes or something but I've never had problems stuffing wolfs nair, but have many problems with fox's dair beating our nair/utilt while they just stuff wolfs nair.
 

DrinkingFood

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Dairshine is for wolf is wayyy worse if only because IC's can CC it. Might be the hitboxes or something but I've never had problems stuffing wolfs nair, but have many problems with fox's dair beating our nair/utilt while they just stuff wolfs nair.
You can't CC wolf nair. It has auto link angles so any time he's falling it's a series of spikes- the landing hit is also always a spike. Additionally, even with CC hitlag reduction, there's only 3 frames between hits, meaning you'll never get a second crouch frame out after true-CCing the first hit even if he does manage to catch you on a rising frame. thought you said nair shine

shine being CCable is not that meaningful. Most lead ins stop you from crouching (ie nair shine/dair shine) so you don't get a true CC on it almost ever, and unless you get an ASDI down tech you're just getting jab reset or launched off the next shine. And if you do ASDI down tech, you're getting tech chased by one of the best characters for it. Plus there's a good chance nana misses the ASDI down. If you ASDI down wolf's shine, it's basically fox's shine with a closer knockdown lol.

Also, shouldn't be able to stuff wolf nair if you're busy dealing with lasers, even with two characters. Wolf can shoot lasers high enough that they don't hit iceblocks but that they do stop ICs from coming through. Never mind that his jump in doesn't have to come down at any given time- even excluding the implications of platforms, wolf gets the fast faller privilege of fox and nearly the drift ability of falcon so there's a huge number of spacing mix-ups both vertical and horizontal. These solutions all sounds like they're made for dealing with bad wolf players tbh
 
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Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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I can't say I've ever played a good wolf player then considering I've never lost to one AFAIK. I played against luckys wolf some at evo and bodied it, so that is all I have to go off of for good wolfs(idk if his wolf is even good lol). I've also played Oracles wolf some and I don't remember losing to it at all with IC's(though his yoshi bodied my IC's? lol). And wolfs lasers are a non-issue with two characters that can either just ice block or(if the shoot it at a magical height I'm not familiar with?) they can just jab it. I am extremely confident about lasers being useless against competent Ic's that know how to deal with projectiles.
 

DrinkingFood

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I can't say I've ever played a good wolf player then considering I've never lost to one AFAIK. I played against luckys wolf some at evo and bodied it, so that is all I have to go off of for good wolfs(idk if his wolf is even good lol). I've also played Oracles wolf some and I don't remember losing to it at all with IC's(though his yoshi bodied my IC's? lol). And wolfs lasers are a non-issue with two characters that can either just ice block or(if the shoot it at a magical height I'm not familiar with?) they can just jab it. I am extremely confident about lasers being useless against competent Ic's that know how to deal with projectiles.
Haven't really seen much or anything of oracle or lucky's wolves, but since they're secondaries at best, chances are their laser placement is not that good since wolf's laser tech is probably hardest thing to be consistent with as spacies. Lasers are the difference between wolf being like a mid tier and a top 5 character lol.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
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I'll check it out, I know phresh is really good, never heard of switch cause I've been out of the scene recently.
 

Hylian

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Game 5 of set 1 is a really good example of why lasers are worthless vs IC's. He gets punished for them many times because of approaching sh IB and even striaght up grabbed out of them.
 

DrinkingFood

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They aren't worthless. They're forcing ICies to throw iceblocks to begin with. If ICs don't throw ice blocks, wolf gets huge lead-ins, while ICs iceblocks in return don't necessarily guarantee a lead in since it's not dangerous at all for wolf to jump or move around iceblocks due to his speed. Plus if you're not in a totally neutral scenario, even by just a small amount of frame advantage, lasers are going to lead into pressure across almost any stage distance when ICs won't have time to get iceblocks going.
 
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Hylian

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Er, I'm not sure how wolf is forcing IC's to throw IBs, considering Ic's love throwing IB's in almost every single match-up lol. It's a great approaching and defensive tool. Phresh especially uses a ton of IB's and its one of the reasons he's so successful compared to other IC's who don't use them nearly as much. Seriously, watch that match..phresh completely shuts down his laser game and Switch gets punished heavily for relying on lasers. In most of the other games as well switch didn't really get much off lasers, even when they connect. IC's also need almost no time to get iceblocks going, you just pivot iceblock or dash dance desynch iceblock, or RiD iceblock or..well there are about 20 other ways to desynch ice block almost instantly. What wolf does do when he lasers is give up stage control, and that is what IC's want more than anything next to a grab.

I really wish phresh would learn how to ledgedash already. Can't believe he still isn't doing one of IC's best ledge options.


Edit: Are there any good Links now or is he still like the worst character?
 
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Player -0

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I feel like the reason I don't like most dubs is the fact that they sound unnatural / as if they were speaking from inside a box / starts differently???

I haven't watched a ton of dubs or anime in general so I might be pulling this from nowhere. Does anyone know anything about?
 

Kurri ★

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I feel like the reason I don't like most dubs is the fact that they sound unnatural / as if they were speaking from inside a box / starts differently???

I haven't watched a ton of dubs or anime in general so I might be pulling this from nowhere. Does anyone know anything about?
You mean like, the sound quality is bad?
 

Bleck

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subbed is probably horrible too, you just can't tell 'cause you don't speak the language

the real trick is to not watch ****ing anime
 

shairn

Your favorite anime is bad.
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Listen to american cartoons, think about how people don't talk like that
Anime is the same, it's all exaggerated and caricaturized, you're just not used to the real thing enough
 

Player -0

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idk it's like the inflection of the voice and tone/pitch.

and I know once you have an idea of a voice for a character then it's even worse going from sub to dub or vice versa so that should be considered.

I have no problem with something like Steven Universe or Gumball (actually just looked up random cartoon and found this <-- link)

omfg send help I just stumbled across a remake of Ben 10 and it's spooky. I think it's like the inflection. It gets worse for females dubbing anime because their tone/pitches go to complete soprano.


I knew Bleck or someone was going to mention the different language thing though
 
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