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Project - Elite Yoshis - Video Analysis and Critque Thread

G_Baby

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Hello all,



I would first like to say, this post is inspired by

http://smashboards.com/threads/nota...d-august-dec-2015-north-america.425608/page-2

There has not been much input there, but I think it would be valuable to all of us to identify who the top Yoshi players are as 2015 ends! After gathering some input I would then like to (personally) gather the videos for these top players and post them in a thread (such as this one). For me personally I know this would go a long way in improving my game as I try to take it to the next level. I hope you see the value in this as well.

NOTE: I know these two threads exist:
VIDEOS - http://smashboards.com/threads/yoshi-theater-video-thread.362480/
RESULTS - http://smashboards.com/threads/eggstraordinary-rainbow-yolk-yoshi-results-thread.381400/

This thread is intended to be focused on the top 5-10 Yoshis and evaluate THEIR GAMEPLAY

ANY INPUT YOU CAN PROVIDE WOULD BE GREAT!


I hope we can all appreciate the value in doing this! Thanks :).

Vids coming
Nike's
Dio
Poltergust
SKY (Formerly?)

iRJi
-Regralht
Esam maybe. Want to see if he continues playing him.
Zudenka


Update 12/28 - I will be uploading the videos soon for each player, had a busier weekend than I anticipated. We will not be ranking the Yoshi players but rather evaluating them/learning from them.


VIDEOS:
(Starting from Recent)

The Wall:
V. Mario (WeeGee)

From Raptor: Both are very similar in having really aggressive playstyles and solid pressure game. Both seem to overwhelm their opponent with hitboxes. Wall does it better though because his execution seems to bemore precise and his reaction seems faster too.

Area for Improvement: Generallymore unsafe than the rest of the Yoshis. Sometimes gives up double jump armor while recovering by fairing. Struggles against mu's where you need to play slow (in walls case when I watched him against a sonic in TX)

The Wall:
I like to consider it as calculated aggression. Having a good reaction time does matter in situations that I put myself in but you'll notice some sly moments when I back off to throw them for a loop. Nothing like an extra aggressive Yoshi who all of a sudden plays defensive, it's such a difference that people normally can't figure out what to do.

Community:
My thoughts: It seems to me he has more success using jab to downb for kills. For a player like me it has been more effective in general so far as down b will pull them in regardless if they are shielding or taking the jab..

(One of these is a mirror with iRJi

 
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RaptorTEC

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In response to the "formerly?", Sky still mains Yoshi but he's on the same boat as before. He doesn't ever enter anything. He's really good though imo. The ones to look out for who get results are:
-Me
-iRJi
-Regralht
-Wall
-Poltergust
-KDB
-Firefly
(No order and I assume this is NA only)
 
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G_Baby

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I mean. Most of us are probably familiar with NA. But if there are some stand out yoshis internationally I'd like to include them. I envision this thread being updated with top yoshi player videos and once I get enough input on who the top ones are I'll create spoiler sections with the videos for each.

ID also like to contribute to the top notable players thread and think this would go a long way. Maybe if this really takes off some sort of power ranking system can be made. We will see.
 

The Wall

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I'd agree basically with Raptor's list since that's NA. Outside of NA I'd also include Nikes and DIO. Kinda hard to rank Yoshi's when basically no Yoshi's out there have results on a national scale. It would come down to "Well I win my locals, but this guy wins his locals and this guy wins his locals so... who is better?" I've managed some decent placings at Regionals and won one of them but still, it's small on the scale of things.
 

G_Baby

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That's a good point you bring up. Maybe I'll make this more of an analysis thread for top yoshis... or at the least compile videos weekly so the community has this thread to view the top players videos in one place to improve.
 

RaptorTEC

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I don't like seeing "no Yoshis have national results" seeing as I got 9th at SmashCon with 750 entrants. >.> Won a regional in PA last month too. Either way Yoshi is slept on regardless of what scattered results we have so it would be nice to have everything compiled together with videos and whatnot
 

The Wall

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Not gonna discount that, 9 / 750 is hella good. I guess I should be more precise in that top 8 placing. I won a regional here in Texas (SU Battlegrounds) which had MJG / Samsora / Karna etc. Honestly I would put it to a vote between you and I being 1st / 2nd currently but it's all opinion based and more of a popularity contest type thing vs who is actually better.

Smash United has plenty of videos of me if you want me to grab some and throw in here. Didn't get my matches with Ryo at MLG uploaded, but I also have my TGC videos on there.
 

Sinister Slush

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Ahh fugg, rankings. This always goes so bad, the old attempts back in the brawl days had multiple top 5 ranking threads and all locked cause staff having to monitor it too much due to meatriding or just baseless discussion even if it was on topic.
It was so taboo to make threads like these back then to the point mods of whatever character board was attempting to make one would need to be issued an early warning.

(though then again the toon link's did troll a lot back in the day along with other randoms following along)

Anyways, in terms of character board only, it's even harder cause it's somehow trying to not be biased towards some Yoshi mains. Some people might even pop in from X Yoshi players region and say something like for example Reg should be higher over Raptor, or just the mains of that specific character board can't reach an impasse cause they all feel someone deserves to be up there over somebody else.
Would just turn into constant bickering and biased opinions to even get the list started.


http://smashboards.com/threads/top-5-yoshis.296949/
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-top-5-brawl-us-can-mex.296541/
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-player-success-rankings-updated-03-04-11.288046/

While the rankings thread exists from Xazx, no idea if the Higher ups mind has changed on the subject of top character listing.
At first Shaya having his own thread seemed fine since it was Shaya running it after all, but he's been gone for a couple months without saying anything so xazx just made his own thread without saying anything as well.

Just throwing that out there at this possibly getting shutdown before we get too dedicated to this project. Since Delta is gone too, no idea if this is still allowed or not if the sub-forum for staff has a thread making sure that stuff doesn't pop up again.
 
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G_Baby

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Ahh fugg, rankings. This always goes so bad, the old attempts back in the brawl days had multiple top 5 ranking threads and all locked cause staff having to monitor it too much due to meatriding or just baseless discussion even if it was on topic.
It was so taboo to make threads like these back then to the point mods of whatever character board was attempting to make one would need to be issued an early warning.

(though then again the toon link's did troll a lot back in the day along with other randoms following along)

Anyways, in terms of character board only, it's even harder cause it's somehow trying to not be biased towards some Yoshi mains. Some people might even pop in from X Yoshi players region and say something like for example Reg should be higher over Raptor, or just the mains of that specific character board can't reach an impasse cause they all feel someone deserves to be up there over somebody else.
Would just turn into constant bickering and biased opinions to even get the list started.


http://smashboards.com/threads/top-5-yoshis.296949/
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-top-5-brawl-us-can-mex.296541/
http://smashboards.com/threads/character-player-success-rankings-updated-03-04-11.288046/

While the rankings thread exists from Xazx, no idea if the Higher ups mind has changed on the subject of top character listing.
At first Shaya having his own thread seemed fine since it was Shaya running it after all, but he's been gone for a couple months without saying anything so xazx just made his own thread without saying anything as well.

Just throwing that out there at this possibly getting shutdown before we get too dedicated to this project. Since Delta is gone too, no idea if this is still allowed or not if the sub-forum for staff has a thread making sure that stuff doesn't pop up again.
Eek,
I'll change the purpose of this thread. I'll keep tabs on the yoshis that are considered elite. Maybe just update their videos... try to post some notes... keep their results etc.

I'm trying to keep it focused on the tip players. So I know we have the video aND results thread but I can see this one turning into something different and valuable.

Merry Christmas everyone!
 

Sinister Slush

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You can keep the concept of the thread, just wait till delta comes back so we can know if the staff still disapprove or not of top 5 threads
 

RaptorTEC

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I agree it's nice to see the variation in styles. This is how I see the Yoshis.

iRJi: The most patient of the bunch. Smart player too. Is content with double jumping away and resetting to neutral constantly. In neutral stays grounded for the most part. Jab game on fleek. Most kills are jab up smash.

cons: Pressure game isn't as strong as it can be. Misses kill opportunities at times and can get a little predictable because you know he wants the jab up smash.

Regralht: Momentum based player. Good pressure game. Creative followups.
Cons: is telegraphed at times hoping something like nair or fair connects. Sometimes throws out unsafe moves if desperate for the kill

Poltergust: literally reminds me of his brawl Yoshi at times lol. Combine this with his use of aerial egg toss to make openings and that's Polt lol.
cons: GOES LUIGI. Can get desperate for kill

Wall/KDB: Both are very similar in having really aggressive playstyles and solid pressure game. Both seem to overwhelm their opponent with hitboxes. Wall does it better though because his execution seems to be more precise and his reaction seems faster too.
Cons: Generally more unsafe than the rest of the Yoshis. Sometimes gives up double jump armor while recovering by fairing. Struggles against mu's where you need to play slow (in walls case when I watched him against a sonic in TX)

Sky: Really random and unorthodox. Will do things you don't expect him to and will open up with it into heavy damage. Good ground game. Spams pp utilt in a way Vinnie described as "really good and annoying". Solid pressure game. One of his best mu's is Sheik which is important.

Cons: randomness can also be a bad thing. Lands unsafely with dair a lot. Should use egg lay more. Can be unsafe

Me: I play according to what my opponent is doing. Usually I play campy and safe until I get an opening in which case I go in. Very momentum based and really good pressure. Reliant on frame traps and reads and getting in my opponents head. Really good at recovering

Cons: bad at ledge guarding/punishing ledge options. Struggle against players who play really random and roll mindlessly. go on autopilot for match ups i haven't practiced much. Misinput more then I should.

Could do more but I haven't watched the rest of the Yoshis enough.
 
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The Wall

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I'd mostly agree with your evaluation of me, except for the fact that I've never lost to that Sonic (KJ) except for 1 tournament. We've met probably 9-10 times in tournament now lol. So regardless of if I was playing the matchup incorrectly or not according to you, winning is what counts.

I like to consider it as calculated aggression. Having a good reaction time does matter in situations that I put myself in but you'll notice some sly moments when I back off to throw them for a loop. Nothing like an extra aggressive Yoshi who all of a sudden plays defensive, it's such a difference that people normally can't figure out what to do.
 

G_Baby

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Ill be posting Vids and figuring out the organization of the OP sometime Sunday. Just FYI. And I like that we at least have discussion going between some of you top yoshis.
 

The Wall

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I'd be down to analyze a couple sets. Yoshi players have some interesting differences in their styles
Would like to hear Reg's opinion on all the Yoshi's as well. I can't really give mine too well because I haven't watched videos of you guys playing recently and evaluated how everyone plays and how they do. Work sucks, and Xenoblade takes up all that extra time >.>
 

phili

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As for international yoshis, Zudenka and Yoshidora haven't been mentioned and I think they are both worth mentioning. For me though, it's quite hard to tell who is the best yoshi right now since there are no major regional or national results to back it up. I think we've noted most of the top ones though
 

Sinister Slush

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Problem with Yoshidora is he's like 98% exclusive to online.
DIO, Aiba and his wife Ninomiya, Mizutama and some others are the Japanese Yoshi mains.

Zudenka gets 1st all the time and the best player in Swiss apparently, wonder how many good players are over there though cause that place has always been mostly unknown for us even during the old days when we all would get off to Zude's play.
 
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Delta-cod

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I did some digging, and it doesn't look like Rankings threads are explicitly banned anywhere, at least for Smash 4. However, I would rather not have a thread dedicated solely to ranking the Top N Yoshis on the boards -- we can use the social for discussions along those lines.

This thread's repurpose -- examining and critiquing the current big names for Yoshi -- seems fine to me. However, if this devolves into debates about who's the best, people getting offended/upset over who counts as a big name, etc., the thread will be closed. Naturally, there may need to be discussion about lesser known players and if they belong here (probably players from quieter regions). This is okay and doesn't necessarily go against the above. Still, discussion should be focused on what we can learn from our "role models" as it were. You all are smart, I'm sure you'll be responsible.

I do ask that we don't neglect the preexisting video/results thread in lieu of this one, though. Budding players need critiques and attention too!

Also, note that all this may change if some missive from the higher ups comes along. But for now this thread is good.
 

G_Baby

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I did some digging, and it doesn't look like Rankings threads are explicitly banned anywhere, at least for Smash 4. However, I would rather not have a thread dedicated solely to ranking the Top N Yoshis on the boards -- we can use the social for discussions along those lines.

This thread's repurpose -- examining and critiquing the current big names for Yoshi -- seems fine to me. However, if this devolves into debates about who's the best, people getting offended/upset over who counts as a big name, etc., the thread will be closed. Naturally, there may need to be discussion about lesser known players and if they belong here (probably players from quieter regions). This is okay and doesn't necessarily go against the above. Still, discussion should be focused on what we can learn from our "role models" as it were. You all are smart, I'm sure you'll be responsible.

I do ask that we don't neglect the preexisting video/results thread in lieu of this one, though. Budding players need critiques and attention too!

Also, note that all this may change if some missive from the higher ups comes along. But for now this thread is good.
Noted, will do my best to keep this thread geared towards what you said. Changed title/OP. Will be uploading videos for everybody this week.
 

Lukingordex

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Seems like an interesting thread, having someone to analyse how that good yoshi plays really helps you notice more things in the gameplay, and i'm excited to see how this project will end up.
 

~Firefly~

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Interesting idea for a thread. For me, my videos come from either one of my region's many weeklies or from PAX, so I'll post the PAX videos for now. I can dig up some of the better sets from locals I've had too if this thread takes off.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hy1cvVnQQSw (vs. Vinnie - Sheik)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hZVKAlw_Vpo (vs. Felix - Diddy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oazUtZPaMZo (vs. Logic - Olimar/Diddy)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTqFYz0mbzo (vs. MVD - Diddy)

I'm welcome to any analysis/critique anyone has to offer. I know there are a lot of holes in my game/things I could be doing better, but if people can learn things from my matches, that's great too. I'll try to take a look at some of the other Yoshi's videos at some point and give input on those as well.
 

G_Baby

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Just an update, had some IRL stuff that has prevented me from uploading everything. I am in the process of doing it a little bit each day. Ill update the OP with the up to date feedback as we go along. I will also message you guys once I had uploaded all the videos.

Thanks for posting yours firefly!
 

The Other Yoshi

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This is fun. I've been watching all of your videos of yoshi-matches. A lot of them. I’m a big fan of Raptor and The Wall. I'm some random guy who plays smash but isn't part of the community, but I've mained as yoshi since smash64.
I’ve been watching so many videos of yoshi in tournaments lately that by the time I actually found this forum and this post, I actually recognized the names in the list. I’m going to be writing and sharing some in depth analysis on this thread--because it’s fun. Before I get to that, I figured I’d share an introductory thought:

What’s up with Amsa? seriously, what a legend. Do you guys ever watch his melee technique and try to re-imagine it for Smash bros 4? What kind of creative techniques are being developed for Yoshi nowadays? What’s the cutting edge of Yoshi Teggnology? I am scrambling for answers.
 
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