Problem with sheiks

[Melaf]

Hey everyone so I recently came back from a ~6 months break from melee and I used to play more mario than anything but I decided to give Doc an other chance since sheiks gave me a LOT of trouble with mario. I thought Doc could help me deal with that annoying character but it seems that its actually worst for me(combos from grab seem much harder to pull off for some reason)So here I am liking doc a whole lot more than mario for every other matchup exept sheik and I have no idea how I should deal with her bull**** beside camping with pills all day.

I went to my first Local biweekly in ~9months and somewhat did pretty well until sheik\WobbleIces .But overall beside the general grab and combo + edgeguard her and CC her titlt spam I dont really understand the matchup at all (especially the neutral)and I feel that this matchup is very unfair for doc\mario. I would really appreciate if someone could give me a bit of advice on this thanks : ).

Edit: Twitch vod no longer work apparently

 

[Superw0rri0]

I don't have time to watch the vod right now but in general: don't get grabbed.... don't commit to much. You just have to deal with the fact that sheik beats you in almost every scenario. She out spaces you, out combos you, out punishes you, better recovery, etc... Her combo game on Doc is easier than on Mario due to Doc being in that perfect combo weight. You'll have to read her combo and DI accordingly in order to avoid harder punishes. Don't commit too much or else you'll get grabbed. You'll simply have to outplay the player not the character.

In regards to her recovery, just grab edge and punish her when she lands on stage with a fair or waveland smash of your choice. Becareful for the mix ups though... make sure to be invincible when grabbing edge or else her up-b will hit you (assuming she goes for that mix up). Stand by the edge with your back towards the edge, wait for the up-b to start, when it does, grab edge, and if she goes on stage just punish her terrible get up. Learn how to reverse f-air/smash from edge on to stage. Best way to do this is to press back then forward jump... don't press down then forward jump, you get more height and more distance if you press back first then forward.

Cheers and good luck.

 

[Melaf]

I don't have time to watch the vod right now but in general: don't get grabbed.... don't commit to much. You just have to deal with the fact that sheik beats you in almost every scenario. She out spaces you, out combos you, out punishes you, better recovery, etc... Her combo game on Doc is easier than on Mario due to Doc being in that perfect combo weight. You'll have to read her combo and DI accordingly in order to avoid harder punish

Thanks a lot. Do you know at what percent you can avoid chaingrab and whats the best DI to help against her grab combo also if I should spam some arial or risk a jump to get out if I ever get grab at lower percent?I feel doc unlike mario specifically for chaingrab get stuck in it way longer like from 0% from a single grab you eat 50% super easily.Also when you mention Reverse F smash to punish her recovery on stage do you mean that I have time to ledgewavedash through her and f smash before she can shield?Or I have to ledgedash before she even appear on stage.I feel like I never have enough time to get either a fair or fsmash toward the ledge if she do her upb near the stage.

 

[Palika]

Her combo game on Doc is easier than on Mario due to Doc being in that perfect combo weight. .

Doc and Mario have the same weight and fall speed in NTSC, which I'm assuming this is. In PAL, Mario's only 2 units lighter which I don't see making much of a difference.

 

[Superw0rri0]

I'm pretty sure the percent to avoid getting chain grabbed is pretty high... just mixup your di and your techs... spam nair if you want to do that but I'm pretty sure that only works if the sheik messes up. When I mean reverse fmash... I mean hitting the back part of the fsmash which is behind Doc's hand... so you would get through her and time the slide just well enough to get the reverse part. It's hard but it's doable... honestly I would rather go for the fair but it's easier to survive on that. And you should have enough time to react to sheik's up-b. The second you see which direction she is going (assuming it's other than the ledge) hop off and get the reverse fair (go for the inner part of the arm pit). You should have enough time because sheik's landing animation is incredibly slow and it's her biggest weakness. If you can't do that then it'll be very difficult to kill sheik... basically, you should get a kill every time sheik needs to use up-b to get back on stage.The only thing that is really difficult is when sheik's mix up whether they're going to land on a platform or not.

Doc and Mario have the same weight and fall speed in NTSC, which I'm assuming this is. In PAL, Mario's only 2 units lighter which I don't see making much of a difference.

I haven't looked at the weight difference but Mario feels very different than Doc to me. I can feel Mario's lightness compared to Doc.

 

[Capt. Tin]

Mario has less end lag on his aerials which might make him feel lighter. Doc's quicker in terms of air speed.