Priority over smash?

[Sonicdahedgie]

I very very VERY new with Sonic, but I like to fancy myself as a good player with him (I know I'm not). When practicing against my friend who's much better than me at smash, while he was playing as Snake, I was rather perplexed with the following situation happened.

I had been knocked off the edge, and was making my way back, when Snake, standing directly on the edge, decided to guard the edge with his up smash. I, in sheer stupidity, decided to down aerial. We were both rather surprised when I plowed through the mortar without taking damage and hit Snake.


Now, the smash wasn't charged, but shouldn't that have not happened? At all? Sonic has low priority, Snake has high priority, etc.


Opinions? Statements?

 

[Tenki]

all of Sonic's aerials break through the mortar.

The low priority thing is kind of true, but it's blown way out of proportion because people kept spamming spindashes like idiots and kept getting hit out of them waaay back in Feb-April, until the Sonic craze died down.

I believe if your aerial or attack does within 10% damage of the mortar, they'll clang and you won't take damage.

 

[thecatinthehat]

I thought it was just nair and dair.

 

[Kinzer]

Nop, I've done it myself.

It's freaking sweet.



Let me show you mah pokeymanz.

BTW I'm credible now, I have tournament results, and even though I suck, I'm currently better than anybody who doesn't have tourney results to begin with! :D

Believe me/it!

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

Well, is this because the mortar is a projectile? I'd like to know more on this subject, like what else Sonic can attack through. I can assume that non-projectile smashes aren't so easily trumped, correct?

 

[Tenki]

Well, is this because the mortar is a projectile? I'd like to know more on this subject, like what else Sonic can attack through. I can assume that non-projectile smashes aren't so easily trumped, correct?

The general rule:

If your attack's single hit (for example, F-tilt's 4 and 7 damage single hits, as opposed to its "total damage" for 11 damage) deals within 10% of your opponent's hit, you can clash with it and both be sent into a neutral state. If one hit does over 10%, then the stronger move will override and win against the weaker move.

As for a small list of other things that Sonic can attack through but aren't limited to:

He can use aerials and go through Pikachu, Mario, Luigi, and Zelda's projectiles.

He can also use F-air to beat Metaknight's forward B and glide attack.

more detail here:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=201103

Feel free to continue discussion or ask further questions in that thread

 

[fromundaman]

The general rule:

If your attack's single hit (for example, F-tilt's 4 and 7 damage single hits, as opposed to its "total damage" for 11 damage) deals within 10% of your opponent's hit, you can clash with it and both be sent into a neutral state. If one hit does over 10%, then the stronger move will override and win against the weaker move.

Is this if the initial damage it deals (AKA when fresh) are within 10% of each other they clash, or the current damages after stale moves are taken into consideration?

 

[Sonicdahedgie]

I would assume that diminishing returns are taken into effect, giving people more reason to not repeat moves.

 

[infomon]

The mortar's "priority" is categorically different from anything else I've found in the game -- and I've studied it a bunch, lol. Any of Sonic's aerials can destroy the mortar if the hitboxes overlap before Sonic's hurtbox gets in the way; which isn't hard, even though Sonic's aerials aren't very disjointed. It is not based on the 10% rule that is typical of ground attacks.

Not everyone's aerials are capable of destroying the mortar. None of MKs can do it, neither can Ness's Fair, Tlink's Bair, Charizard's Fair, or some others. Basically, if a hitbox seems like it's abnormally "slashy" or "energy"-type, it may not be able to affect the mortar. Brawl's elemental type system is very weak, but it exists (remember the stickers in SSE?)..... there are very few interactions in tournament-style 1v1 battles that involve the types, and I'm not even sure if that 100% explains which attacks can break the mortar.

The 10% rule is not in effect though, since TLink's Bair doesn't break the mortar, but a single hit of Yoshi's Bair does.

 

[Kinzer]

Could that explain why it isn't possible to break the Whorenado with Sonic's Fair since somehow the Nado ignores the 10% rule or what am I msising here?

 

[fromundaman]

My question was more of a general question though, since I'd never heard of that 10% difference rule before.

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I think Nado takes on aerial rules. i.e. first hitbox to hit first hurtbox wins. Not the 10% rules.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Could that explain why it isn't possible to break the Whorenado with Sonic's Fair since somehow the Nado ignores the 10% rule or what am I msising here?

Possibly because the tornado isn't a projectile.

 

[Tenki]

tl;dr types exist too

yeah, forgot to mention that, but Sonic's attack types break it, and that's what matters

Could that explain why it isn't possible to break the Whorenado with Sonic's Fair since somehow the Nado ignores the 10% rule or what am I msising here?

Tornado can clang with single hits, but the followup hits are just so fast they'll hit you before your second hits connect.

And it also tends to hit behind you `.`;

 

[fromundaman]

I hate to be a ****, but my question is still unanswered...

 

[infomon]

No, the 'nado does not ignore the 10% rule. The 10% rule is generally for ground attacks; most jabs, smashes, tilts, and most Specials that are used on the ground. As well as many specials that aren't, ex. Din's Fire, Aura Spheres, etc. The 10% rule does not in general apply to aerials, except for some weird things like Olimar's Pikmin which have their own hurtboxes, I'm not sure of the specifics of them.

Anyway, the tornado's hitboxes use the 10% rule when the tornado is on the ground. Well, let's be more specific. In the air, the tornado does not act like a typical aerial. Aside from Pikmin, aerials cannot clash, meaning you can overlap an aerial with an opponent hitbox, and the aerial will be unaffected. However "ground-attack priority" attacks can clash, where you see a blue-grey "clash bubble" appear, and it means that their hitbox is nullified against the opponent's hitbox. Furthermore, many attacks can be "interrupted", like when you quickly put your attack away after a clash. Not all clashes result in that interruption, like Ness' Yo-yo will always complete its cycle regardless of a clash (unless you hit Ness' hurtbox).

A tornado's hitbox will clash with opponent hitboxes, both aerials and otherwise, while the tornado is on the ground or in the air. But a grounded tornado can be interrupted by an offending hitbox that would cause more than 10% than the tornado's hitbox at the time. An aerial tornado cannot be interrupted unless you hit MK's hurtbox.

I..... might be missing some details and such, but that's the jist of it iirc.

 

[Kinzer]

yeah, forgot to mention that, but Sonic's attack types break it, and that's what matters



Tornado can clang with single hits, but the followup hits are just so fast they'll hit you before your second hits connect.

And it also tends to hit behind you `.`;

Wonder if Whorenado clanks with Whorenado... that sounds like some funny results.

I hate to be a ****, but my question is still unanswered...

If it makes you feel better, I have no answer to your question which is why I'm letting somebody else with more intelligence *coughTenkicough* answer it.

Edit: @Infzy, ah, so that's why the Nado is hard to counteract, probably just because MKs hurtbox is small as is, but then the Nado almost envelops around MK, making it hard to hit him out of it...

 

[fromundaman]

Wonder if Whorenado clanks with Whorenado... that sounds like some funny results.

I dunno... it goes through Kirby's copied version, but I think that's because of the size difference between the hitboxes.

 

[ShadowLink84]

I hate to be a ****, but my question is still unanswered...

tenki answered earlier. in anycase all of Sonic's aerials with clang or nullify the mortar.
Sonic's priority is not as bad as people often declare.

You can break the mortar with all of your aerials.

Let alone that overall priority=/=individual priority.

 

[infomon]

Is this if the initial damage it deals (AKA when fresh) are within 10% of each other they clash, or the current damages after stale moves are taken into consideration?

After stale moves. It's the damage that the hitbox would cause if it were to land on a foe.

 

[Tenki]

What's funny is this was answered in the FAQ that I linked earlier.

 

[Kinzer]

>.>

Oh s***, he's on to us, everybody run away!

 

[da K.I.D.]

i believe snakes mortar work similarly to dins fire.

where if you cover yourself in a hitbox than you will destroy the mortar.
thats why sonic doesnt get hit by too may mortars because the whole "curl up into a ball" thing, over laps him with a hitbox, and allows him to hit through it. all his airials do this as well. thats why you can hit from the from of sonics body with a back air

 

[Tenki]

a "charged" Din's fire will actually knock Sonic out of his weaker attacks though.