Potential 0-to-Deaths on Spacies in FD?

[Garr]

So since u-tilt base knockback was halved, Mewtwo's punish game on spacies needs some addressing. The shortened tail also makes it a bit harder to pull off. I'm not sure what's guaranteed, but I certainly who love other's input. If I want to counter Fox or Wolf, I want to make sure they can't do anything to get back to neutral.

I want to figure out potential 0-to-death combos on Final Destination starting with one grab, kinda like how M2K's Marth deals with Fox in that stage.

Here's one sequence that still works in 3.5:

1) Grab, up-throw, Fair, re-grab. Make sure you hit them with the very top of the hitbox, or else they hit the ground before you can get a follow-up. JC grab might be necessary, but it all depends on the opponent's DI.

2) Up-throw, pummel, Dash SH to stay below them, Uair, re-grab. This part's trickier. I've tried it in debug mode, and I can see some ways the opponent can get out of it, but if you get that grab, the next part should be easy. Hit them with the tip of the Uair as they descend from the throw, and re-grab. Not sure about JC grabs, but I'll do some more lab work on that.

3) Up-throw, full hop, Down-B or Shadow Ball. Bair could be the finisher if you prefer, but Down-B in the air sends spacies at a really bad angle. Shadow Ball is your best option if you get one fully charged.

4) Edgeguarding and edgehogging. If you finish the combo near the ledge, this shouldn't be a problem, but if the last hit was near the center of it, you'll have to do some work to secure that stock.

This is all I know, but if you guys other ways to get gimps or 0-to-deaths on these guys, please share!

 

[Plebiscuit]

Uthrow into double fair is easy and has worked consistently at low percents since Melee. You're practically guaranteed at least a decent uair string out of it. Once you get Fox up into that 70-80% range, gimping just becomes a matter of putting him offstage and repeatedly keeping your tail between him and safety.

 

[DARKcpu0]

To add on to the spacies+falcon chain situation, At around 50%, you can throw out a side b then regrab. I personally go with upthrow fair regrab upthrow uair (force a reset if I **** up) side b grab, and dependent on where I am on stage, back throw or up throw against the four. Maybe from side b then regrab you can down throw but I dont really ever touch that move ever unless I **** up.

Said that on emu's guide for mewtwo 3.5

Might wanna add the fact that you can do all this to falcon as well.

Also should work on stages like dreamland, smashville, and norfair, in the case that platforms arent too much of an issue and your opponent doesn't di towards them in a way where they get close to them. In that case, Uair/Utilt

Mewtwo's spacies match up only got slightly harder due to not really being able to approach all that well.

 

[Garr]

Uthrow into double fair is easy and has worked consistently at low percents since Melee. You're practically guaranteed at least a decent uair string out of it. Once you get Fox up into that 70-80% range, gimping just becomes a matter of putting him offstage and repeatedly keeping your tail between him and safety.

Double Fair? Interesting.

Do you do both of them in a full hop or 2 SH's?

Also, regarding the spacies' percentage, If you get a d-throw that sends off stage at 50-80%, you can go after them for a fast fall Dair and that's a stock. Not sure if Fox can meteor cancel in time, but Falco sure as hell can't do anything about it.

 

[Garr]

Said that on emu's guide for mewtwo 3.5

Might wanna add the fact that you can do all this to falcon as well.

Also should work on stages like dreamland, smashville, and norfair, in the case that platforms arent too much of an issue and your opponent doesn't di towards them in a way where they get close to them. In that case, Uair/Utilt

Mewtwo's spacies match up only got slightly harder due to not really being able to approach all that well.

I got around to watching Emu's guide. I kinda had a grudge for the guy for being the reason why Mewtwo got nerfed, but I still got to respect players like him, Chudat, or every Diddy player that there were issues with this game. This is what happens when you pick a character for the fun of it, but then turns out to be god-tier or whatever lol.

Really liked what Emukiller said in his guide. He may think his fundamentals suck, but his mentality for the neutral game is leading towards him developing top player fundamentals, so good for him. Also, I didn't really see viability in Uair in the neutral, but then I saw him float-canceling it, and now I'm labbing it hard so I can use it as well :D. I'm really glad he went over the chain-grabs on fast-fallers, though, but there's one part where I think he's wrong.

What he said about getting a second grab out of up-throw, I tried it in debug mode with Fox as my training fodder, and there's like, 3-4 frames where he's not in hitstun. Any high level spacie player would just shine you before the grab. It's an opportunity, and when it comes to punishing characters with an insane neutral, I can't afford to give opportunities. A safer option I found is doing a float cancel Uair to regrab. They stay in hitstun for the whole time before the regrab, so I'll see what I can do.

I wouldn't do the same things on Dreamland. I know that they'll DI towards the platforms, so I'll be forced to mix up my punishes, and Smashville's all about the timing. If I get a grab when the platform's far to the side, that's great, but when it's not, I gotta adapt. Wavelanding to the platform for a regrab is good unless they do a getup attack. Spacies do have short limbs, so I'll make sure to stay out of the hitboxes.

And THANK GOD that I finally know where Mewtwo's hurtboxes are! This explains SO MUCH. I thought half the tail was disjointed, but no, turns out it's only the bulb.

 

[DARKcpu0]

I got around to watching Emu's guide. I kinda had a grudge for the guy for being the reason why Mewtwo got nerfed, but I still got to respect players like him, Chudat, or every Diddy player that there were issues with this game. This is what happens when you pick a character for the fun of it, but then turns out to be god-tier or whatever lol.

Really liked what Emukiller said in his guide. He may think his fundamentals suck, but his mentality for the neutral game is leading towards him developing top player fundamentals, so good for him. Also, I didn't really see viability in Uair in the neutral, but then I saw him float-canceling it, and now I'm labbing it hard so I can use it as well :D. I'm really glad he went over the chain-grabs on fast-fallers, though, but there's one part where I think he's wrong.

What he said about getting a second grab out of up-throw, I tried it in debug mode with Fox as my training fodder, and there's like, 3-4 frames where he's not in hitstun. Any high level spacie player would just shine you before the grab. It's an opportunity, and when it comes to punishing characters with an insane neutral, I can't afford to give opportunities. A safer option I found is doing a float cancel Uair to regrab. They stay in hitstun for the whole time before the regrab, so I'll see what I can do.

I wouldn't do the same things on Dreamland. I know that they'll DI towards the platforms, so I'll be forced to mix up my punishes, and Smashville's all about the timing. If I get a grab when the platform's far to the side, that's great, but when it's not, I gotta adapt. Wavelanding to the platform for a regrab is good unless they do a getup attack. Spacies do have short limbs, so I'll make sure to stay out of the hitboxes.

And THANK GOD that I finally know where Mewtwo's hurtboxes are! This explains SO MUCH. I thought half the tail was disjointed, but no, turns out it's only the bulb.

If you know they'll DI towards platforms, call it out, and hit them before with Uair. Punishing with mewtwo is just, well, playing mewtwo. You have to know your options for punishes over anything else in the fast fallers match up.

As for the 2nd grab out of up throw, he probably meant after a fair. Throw a fair out before hand.

Again, I typically go U Throw, Fair, Grab, U Throw, Uair, Grab, then depends from there.