Pot bonuses, Travel Stipends, and more

[Overswarm]

For those of you that frequently travel and host tournaments, what amount for pot bonuses are considered good and how much of a travel stipend would you typically consider as a worthwhile carrot to travel?

I am running a Wii U circuit this spring and plan on implementing pot bonuses, offset by venue fees, and later having stipends for individual users as kind of an "invitee" to a tournament (like saying "Hey Coney, we think you're awesome! Here's $100, come to Ohio.")

For those of you who have done things like this before, what strategies have you used to offset costs (sponsorships, "my friend owns the venue", venue fees, poker winnings, etc.)

This is a pretty varied group so I thought it'd be a good way to get a pulse on it.

 

[Shaya]

Pot bonuses and stipends favour the top players and the lower levels notice the discrepancy . It isn't as effective as creating hype as one would like it to be.

"$1000 pot bonus" screams Mew2King going, and then 10-15 other similarly leveled people feeling dejected that some outsider comes for "free money".

I plan on running a league/circuit for Smash 4 myself, with prizes primarily geared towards the "final" only, with performance over the season accounting for seeding as well as prizes (potentially paying out top X on the ladder on an interval).

Supporting the car poolers gives you 4-5 people and potentially multiple set ups for the price of one. From my experiences over the years of a scene which had a specific person willing to throw out money to have top players travel and pot bonuses (in an arbitrary way I suppose, leading to disappointments that may otherwise not have occured), stuff that benefits more people is better than pouring all resources into the players who should already have the incentives to travel (actually being capable of winning).

 

[Overswarm]

I've thought about doing pot bonuses across the board, like $X just added to the pot as a whole.

I sometimes give out prizes to drivers -- I put them in a raffle and do things like "$5 off something in the store" or goofball gifts and occasionally something like a game, and that has had varied success.

 

[Keitaro]

I've never been a fan of pot bonuses although I'll have one soon but only because a sponsor offered it. Offering money for top players does bring hype though. I think it's a better solution imo. Why have a pot bonus so maybe M2K or Ally can come when you can just help them travel to the event? Doing that confirms their attendance unless they flake which is usually not likely.

Pot bonuses begin to matter imo when it's huge. Like $500 or $1000+. Then more players will actually care about attending because they'll still get a decent payout even when they get 5th. Helping a top player to come to the event will get those players out normally because a bunch of top players at an event usually makes players of all levels take the event serious enough to warrant coming.

 

[Overswarm]

We might be able to double dip.

"1st and 2nd place get a $X stipend towards attending Keitaro's super fun smash bash on April 22nd!"

 

[Zigsta]

I hosted the finals of the Lone Star Circuit in Austin, TX several years ago. The circuit had a stop every other month or so in one of the major Texas cities. Each stop had a slightly higher venue fee, with part of that fee going into the pot bonus for the finals. Then at the finals I got the venue for literally free, so the $5 venue fee went straight into the bonus pot. The pot wound up between $500 and $800 I think (I'd have to dig up the final tally), and M2K, dabuz, and a good bit of top SoCal players flew down for the event.

 

[Overswarm]

I hosted the finals of the Lone Star Circuit in Austin, TX several years ago. The circuit had a stop every other month or so in one of the major Texas cities. Each stop had a slightly higher venue fee, with part of that fee going into the pot bonus for the finals. Then at the finals I got the venue for literally free, so the $5 venue fee went straight into the bonus pot. The pot wound up between $500 and $800 I think (I'd have to dig up the final tally), and M2K, dabuz, and a good bit of top SoCal players flew down for the event.

How did the locals react to this?

If you streamed or recorded the event, was this a worthwhile investment for streaming/viewership purposes?

 

[Zigsta]

How did the locals react to this?

If you streamed or recorded the event, was this a worthwhile investment for streaming/viewership purposes?

After the tournament, locals were mainly against the results. A lot of people felt like they had paid extra money for M2K/dabuz/Havok to come in and take all their money, as OoSers took all the singles pot. The ones who enjoyed the experience were mainly people not in contention for making money because they got to play against people they never get to play against. Ultimately a circuit like this tried to pick up again the following year (after I moved to CA) but wound up never coming to fruition.

I don't remember how many people watched the steam, but the tournament broke 100 people and was the largest tournament in Texas outside of WHOBO.

 

[Overswarm]

I've noticed some similar complaints by locals when OoS players came to our tournaments, especially when the skill gap was large. For a long period in Brawl, Ally and Mew2King both attended our tournaments as they lived in MI and OH and a lot of people actually stopped going because it felt like they were "playing for third". Not quite sure what to do about that directly, or if it should even be a thing you do something about!

Do you have any ideas that locals might prefer to pot bonuses?

I've considered charging slightly extra for the venue fee and using that to purchase recording equipment or extra setups or the like and just taking them to every tournament so things run smoother. Alternatively, saving the extra venue fee money and using it to rent TVs for one giant event so that way we have a crazy amount of setups.

 

[Ishiey]

Free pizza is the ultimate hype-bringer.

I don't think pot bonuses make sense unless it's for the end of a circuit or through a sponsorship, and even then it should be added to the total prize pool and not all dumped into first.

Flying people out to events is eh for me... I think small donations like $100 is okay but tbh that feels like bribing one person to support your tournament. Doing "free" things to help individuals is better imo, like covering housing and rides. Also +1 for supporting big carpools, that's suuuper important since carpools show that another region is supporting you. Plus, it incentivizes more people to carpool and helps them build friends/ties within the Smash community, hopefully keeping them around for longer and helping them have a better time at tournaments.

 

[NickRiddle]

Instead of all of the extra money from a circuit going to a Pot Bonus, why not put some of it towards an Amateur Bracket's Pot Bonus? That way the good players are fighting for the big prize, but the mid-level and below players also have motivation.

 

[Overswarm]

Pizza and amateur brackets funded by extra $ are both super awesome ideas.

 

[Ishiey]

Only issue with AmBrax payouts is that some people who place 9th in singles are like, "ew I should've sandbagged for less money than what the lowest payout in ProBrax would give me". Idk, we did that at a 160-man PM tournament I hosted in August (pay out top4 in AmBrax $20-15-10-5, while 5th place in pro got $20), and the other players in Pro didn't like it very much. At the end of the day, this extra money could go towards paying out the next two spots in Pro bracket, y'know? Even if it's tiny.

Something like a voucher for free pizza (sorry, I may have a problem) at the next event for the AmBrax winner sounds like a good idea to me. Incentive for them to show up next time around to support your event, and they still actually win something they can use.

 

[Overswarm]

I've been thinking about running a "fantasy smash" event for locals during my Wii U circuit. Take the players that enter 3DS events and other local players then sell entries into the pool and deliver a prize to whoever is highest.

Alternatively, a "guess the rankings" thing based on circuit points.

Does anyone have any experience running something like this?

 

[Keitaro]

As a heads up I've had over 40+ people tell me that they came to an event of mine once they heard "insert top player here" was coming. Those player in the end potentially paid back the cost for flying out the player and brought hype to the event. Just have to be sure to fly out the correct player. Also I'm more for helping a player come out. I've never paid for an entire ticket at least. If a full plane ticket was purchased it's usually from a sponsor.

 

[Shaya]

And I've probably had a 20-30 man tournament turn into sub 10 when they heard m2k was going , people showed up and were like "oh I heard m2k was coming so X/Y/Z didn't bother, but I know m2k, he never shows up for these things? OH HE'S ACTUALLY HERE? *dip going to see a movie*"

Anyway random useless anecdotal. But if you're bringing over an international, of course people are going to by hyped to travel. If there is a notion of an even playing field generated by your inclusion/sponsorship/etc, then it'll be hype increasing.

 

[Overswarm]

From what I've seen, the "hype" aspect comes from large numbers of good players and a dedicated event. Random events that are just "something to do on the weekend" that have one higher tier player show up meets with an "ugh..." mentality.

 

[Marc]

We've had Armada at several of our Melee tournaments and I feel like that at most affected the attendance of a handful of other high level European players if they happened to be thirsty for a tournament. I don't think we ever had a pot bonus per se, but if the attendance is consistent enough you already more or less know what the prize money is going to be and good players can take or leave that. We might offer a pot bonus at a large event in March, but that would come from a sponsor. It also helps that for both Melee and Brawl my country has a lot of good competition to offer, so foreign players are intrinsically motivated to come to our prominent events. The domestic level being high also leads to attendants not being particularly interested in paying more for specific players to come out, especially considering that flying someone in from another continent costs a lot of money better used for buying equipment and the like.

Of course, making an effort to boost the pot by a reasonable amount can help people make up their mind who are already considering going (in our case, other European countries), but the money needed to attract players who only play for money and don't care where they are traveling is not something I'd be quick to piss away as a TO. It comes down to how much of a priority you want to put on your event featuring top level outsiders and the hype/additional attendance that might bring, it probably matters more for the stream. If we end up having a pot bonus through sponsorship for the event in March I'll post back on its effect.

We've also done things like have newcomers pay less or enter them in a raffle for free and it seems like things like that don't particularly matter either. People who have a good time will come back, so the focus should always be on the quality of the event itself. I do like the idea of giving away food/drinks, especially considering we often uses venues with bars and kitchens, will think on that some more.

 

[Ishiey]

I ran a tournament yesterday where we took orders for pizza, had soda for sale (both at very reasonable costs), and had free water/cookies/snacks. It was met with very positive feedback. I think that maybe trying to make a tournament environment seem more like a home where someone is actively looking after your comfort is a good strategy, instead of solely focusing on running an efficient tournament.