• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Guide Postmodern RNG tactics (knitting & panning theory discussion)

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
lloD knitting on stream at S@X 128! the commentators call it 'netting' lol. 1:46 and 5:30 and 7:15

 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
Thank you to @Fish_ssbm who just made these two great audio files for practicing knitting. They are both for the 7f (YYZ) qdrop which is the fastest of the 5 known qdrops
(reminder: YYZ also results in the 10f and 13f qdrops if you are off by a frame or two, and YYZ qdrops drop the turnip behind you)

This one has a 30 frame buffer between each of the knits so you can hear the (b....y.yz!) sequence. This is the pattern i clearly hear in my head when doing it so i'd say it is definitely worth internalizing. Pay attention to the gap between B and Y
This one has no buffer, so is basically TAS. It is pretty hard to discern individual knits but should give you an idea of how long you're pausing after the qdrop and before your next pull
 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
lloD knits after almost every stock in these really good recent sets he had with swedish delight. once he starts doing it twice after each stock instead of once he will be the first top player to incorporate it into his gameplay as intended

S@X 152 WF https://youtu.be/ALPaQEA6yUo
S@X 152 GF https://youtu.be/oRsALoPZkQw

this instance is a textbook example of how to knit properly between stocks. even on a small stage lloD had ample time to knit twice before the respawn platform even appears
https://youtu.be/ALPaQEA6yUo?t=4m19s
 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
every off the top kill = 4 turnips with knitting
even on the smallest stage and right under spawn
(~40% chance that at least one of those 4 pulls is +EV)

(slightly related, one of the mus im finding knitting to be the most useful in is vs samus. not because you kill off the top, but because many times you cant do anything else while she's recovering and +EV turnips are really good edgeguard/kill tools. plus it feels like you get more chances at recatching than in other mus)

 

JustSomeScrub

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 20, 2015
Messages
416
Knitting seems way harder than it should be because of the stupid Z light shield. The double jump window is reasonable enough but Z is a very awkward button to tap and let go as fast as you need to.

every off the top kill = 4 turnips with knitting
even on the smallest stage and right under spawn
(~40% chance that at least one of those 4 pulls is +EV)

(slightly related, one of the mus im finding knitting to be the most useful in is vs samus. not because you kill off the top, but because many times you cant do anything else while she's recovering and +EV turnips are really good edgeguard/kill tools. plus it feels like you get more chances at recatching than in other mus)

Based off this video it seems getting 5 turnips safely with this technique should be possible in some scenarios. After all, this is the smallest stage and he spawned very close to you.

Heck even 6 might be possible safely if you know they are about to die but haven't died yet (such as Falco being too low/far without a jump). They might still try up B/side B as most players do giving you even more time to knit.
 
Last edited:

Sycorax

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
502
Location
Atlanta, GA
Knitting seems way harder than it should be because of the stupid Z light shield. The double jump window is reasonable enough but Z is a very awkward button to tap and let go as fast as you need to.
I like to slide my index finger off the tip of the Z button.
 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
I like to slide my index finger off the tip of the Z button.
yes i advocate sliding off as well.

also yes, that is why i phrased it that way. could easily have pulled 5 or more on other stages. earlier in this thread i posted a gif where I pull 5 on bf vs a falco after an off the top kill
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
I highly doubt those who are good at q dropping are really only pressi z one frame. They probably subconsciously press the doubly jump several frames late to get the difference.
 

Vestboy_Myst

NJ TO & Peach knitwit
Joined
Jan 10, 2014
Messages
601
Location
NJ
@Ryobeat knitting on stream for the first time, he's getting the hang of it! importantly, he told me he uses tap > y > z, which I'd consider the ideal way to do this.

when using x/y, you need to time the press immediately after shieldstun ends for a jump to register. with tap, you have 4 frames of leniency as it is ending, so it makes qdrop oos slightly easier as a punish. it is also way less finger strain than double tapping one button like i do.

https://gfycat.com/OrdinaryPoisedCub
 

TruckyMcGee

Smash Rookie
Joined
Mar 10, 2017
Messages
4
3DS FC
2208-9462-8618
Thanks a lot for the helpful and informative guide! Now I can try to learn this to improve even further.
 

Kidney Thief

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 13, 2014
Messages
299
Location
Gatineau/Ottawa
What's the frame data on the fastest possible Float --> Z drop. Been doing it this way for years, wondering if it's really worth the switch. Honestly it might be worth it to do it with float for consistency's sake
 

CAUP

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 21, 2014
Messages
467
It's earlier on in the thread. I'm going to do a write up on knitting I think.

Edit: I don't know if I will actually. A lot of data has already been given.
 
Last edited:

DarkRijin

Smash Cadet
Joined
Apr 22, 2015
Messages
39
Location
Cutler Bay, Florida
NNID
DarkRijin
What's the frame data on the fastest possible Float --> Z drop. Been doing it this way for years, wondering if it's really worth the switch. Honestly it might be worth it to do it with float for consistency's sake
5f jumpsquat + 1f jumpf + 1f frame (need to wait 1f before float) + 5f float release + 1f falling + 4f landing = 17 frames
 
Top Bottom