Possible Kirby Tech? Ledge Hup-Cancel Discussion

[LaserLockOn]

Bad video and sound quality incoming, recorded by me.

As you can see, Kirby can go from the ledge on stage without experiencing any landing lag. However, it is also rather hard to perform it consistently, I messed up a ton of times myself. The basics of this tech is using the hup-cancel to be able to land without any sort of lag, so Kirby would be able to freely chose any option when landing. When combined with careful positioning and timing when landing on stage, he will have no lag and have safely landed on the stage.

How to do it

First you must know how to do a Hup-cancel, which it landing on the ground with the start up of Down Air without activating it's hitbox, Kirby will land without any lag. The same can be said true for Uair and Fair, but the time frame is way too short to use effectively.

To perform the Ledge Hup-Cancel or just "Ledge Cancel", first drop from below the ledge and hop back up. You must have enough height to reach back onto the stage, but not too much or else H-cancel won't land. When you use Dair, quickly tilt the L-stick to fastfall and cancel the landing lag with H-cancel. Fastfall too late and Dair will activate the hitboxes. This is basically almost the same principle as Wario's Ledge Cancel discussed by Smash Corner, and was inspired by it.


I don't necessarily mean for this to be a completely new and discovered, but just to discuss it's possibilities of becoming a very useful tech that everyone can use. For me it is rather hard to perform correct, since I rushed the entire making of this and the video, I didn't take the chance to fully look into it. I'm not exactly the greatest at competitive smash with Kirby, so I'd like to hear some opinions about this and how it can be applied. Personally I think it'd be impossible to try and use this online due to lag, and if possible someone else could do a professional analysis and tutorial on this tech instead of me, since I really don't want to take the time to do it all

 

[Asdioh]

Interesting. First I'll say that this should be well known, because "hup canceling" is simply canceling the startup of Downair by landing on the ground before the hitbox comes out, but after the noise comes out. You can do this anywhere that there is ground, so of course you can do it while jumping onto the stage from the ledge. I'll also say that I never return to stage like this, because it's just too slow and unsafe. If you just watch the video you made, there is just way too much time between letting go of the ledge, and landing, where your opponent can easily react.

Hup Canceling is still great though, because Kirby shouts that distinctive sound every time he uses Dair, and that same sound also comes from other aerials sometimes... or maybe only Nair, now that I think about it? As well as some of his tilts and stuff. Anyway, since people associate that noise with Kirby attacking, their reaction will usually be to shield. If you cancel your attack though, they'll try shielding an attack that isn't coming, and since you have no endlag, you can grab. This only really works if you're in their head though... and the game's sound is audible.

 

[kirbyfan66]

I actually like it. I personally wouldn't do it in a match, but this is a good way to practice H-Cancel.

As for match practicality, I'm not too sure, but it might be useful against characters that don't have spikes (maybe slower characters, too)? At least when done how it was at 0:15 in the video. You're a pretty safe distance below the stage before you jump.

 

[Triple R]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have normal landing lag when hup cancelling. Wouldn't this be the same as just doing nothing, landing, then doing something?

 

[kirbyfan66]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have normal landing lag when hup cancelling. Wouldn't this be the same as just doing nothing, landing, then doing something?

The thing is, the animation for Kirby's Down Air still starts. It's really good because it looks like you're going to do an attack, but before your opponent can react to you not doing an attack, you're moving. That's the way I use it, at least.

 

[t!MmY]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you have normal landing lag when hup cancelling. Wouldn't this be the same as just doing nothing, landing, then doing something?

I sort of thought this too back when looking at it in Brawl, but I started integrating it into my game and noticed that it does have a subtle effect especially if the opponent is at a level of noticing nuances of play. In all actuality, Hup-Canceling can work even if there is no audio turned on because a 'mute Hup-Cancel' will still have visual cues. Of course the opponent is more likely to react to a Hup-Cancel when there's both audio and visual cues.

For contrast:
Back in the 'before hup-canceling days' (i.e. Melee, before Brawl's release) when I would Auto-Cancel D-air there was no "Hup!" uttered by Kirby. I don't remember any opponent reacting to it. Even now when playing Melee Kirby, I don't get any perceptible reaction from my opponent when I D-air Auto-Cancel. This could be for different reasons altogether, such as Melee being a faster paced game or because nothing Kirby does is all that threatening, but it's still something I notice.

 

[Asdioh]

Yeah, when I was fooling around in Training earlier I noticed how he clearly opens and closes his mouth when starting the move. There's also the shiny flash effect, but that is the same effect you see when you fastfall. Or do smash attacks.

It's kinda weird actually. Kirby's Dair has 18 frames of startup, which is practically the slowest startup for an aerial in the game. On top of that, he makes a distinctive noise, are there any other aerials that do this every time? On top of THAT, people can tech spikes onstage in smash 4 ;_; it's almost like they thought Dair was a strong move or something!

 

[kirbyfan66]

it's almost like they thought Dair was a strong move or something!

I dunno, it was pretty broken in Smash 64. That may have been 16 years ago, but that's irrelevant. =P

Oh well, if nothing else, we have an easy way of getting Kirby to say "Hup!". It's adorable.

 

[WootSnorlax]

There's hardly a reason to do this over a normal ledge getup. You don't retain the invincibility frames from the drop down so it kind of invalidates this move. It is however somewhat useful for mixups. Say your opponent is shielding close to the ledge. From there you can ledge drop hup cancel into a grab. That's probably the only situation I can see it being used and even still the opponent can drop shield and bop you or just shield grab once he sees you're in the air.

 

[smashian]

hup cancelling is useful when cancelling the back and forwardthrow animation ( you can cancel the animation by fastfalling and doing the downair shortly after kirby threw the opponent ) example: youre doing a backthrow at around 25 percent , your opponent is now forced to tech . normally you cant follow up anymore , but by cancelling the landinglag with hup cancelling and cancelling the throw animation with fastfall dair youre able to follow up with a techchase dashattack ( if they tech, if not jablock him and do a downair to upthrow for maximum damage )

 

[BleakPanther]

I know this is a old discussion, but check out Beefy Smash Doods's video on A-Landing. This hop cancel is actually done by using the initial auto-cancel frames of Kirby's dair, and due to the auto cancel, it will therefore auto-cancel into the ground. This can be done with any character, as long as they have auto-cancel frames on an aerial, but some are harder to do, due to the various auto cancel frames (some 1-3 frames long).

Beefy Smash Dood's Video on A-Landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbC_nNAMYsU

 

[WootSnorlax]

I know this is a old discussion, but check out Beefy Smash Doods's video on A-Landing. This hop cancel is actually done by using the initial auto-cancel frames of Kirby's dair, and due to the auto cancel, it will therefore auto-cancel into the ground. This can be done with any character, as long as they have auto-cancel frames on an aerial, but some are harder to do, due to the various auto cancel frames (some 1-3 frames long).

Beefy Smash Dood's Video on A-Landing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PbC_nNAMYsU

Sorry man, you didn't need to bump this thread on a topic that we already know about. In fact, it's as if you didn't even read the thread because it's already discussed here on how it even works. Hup canceling is even mentioned in our pinned post over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4-kirbys-epic-guide-ver-2-1.367840/

Unless you have anything to add about using our hup cancel (aka autocanceled dair) then this post was unnecessary.

Actually though, bringing this thread back and looking back I'm surprised that doing an airdodge -> hupcanceled wasn't considered as a get up option. I'm pretty sure it's discussed somewhere else though hidden in the deep chambers of our pinned threads...