Possible Explanation for S2J failed Stomp on Abate

[o0silentshadow0o]

Background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuqFTiVr6Ac
Just watch this just in case you don't know about what happened.

Explanation: It seems that when ever a move like Marth's Up-B or Luigi's Side-B happens the games coding pushes the player (obviously), but what is interesting is that in order to stop this movement, it kills all momentum with another line of code (which determines the length of the move). So if this were true, a well timed move (like S2J's stomp) on the activation of the last code would essentially do nothing to the opponent.

Proof: Seeing that all the Smash Bros was coded by the same person, it would logical to assume that he used similar codes and mechanics for all of his games. Any way, that is very important because in Brawl/Project M, my friend is a huge fan of "Turbo Mode" (Turbo mode is a way of playing, allowing all hits to have 0 lag; so you can basically spam moves), but he discovered something very interesting. If you do a Up-B with Marth while hitting, and then use any aerial immediately, Marth get's launched very, very, very high.


So now some of you might be asking why does this matter, and how does it prove anything? Well if my thought on a end code activating during the end of a move, to kill all momentum, then that would explain both why marth was launched up, and why S2J failed his Stomp. Because in the Marth example, the end code does not come into play because the code used to activate a Aerial, takes priority. And for S2J, like I said, he hit Abate right as the code activates, thus killing all momentum.



So this is my little theory, and the only one I thought made sense. Any thoughts?

 

[20YY SS | Saiblade]

This is wrong. It's already been proven that it was an invisible ceiling glitch triggered by Abate's dsmash on S2J's shield.

 

[EarthCrash]

This is wrong. It's already been proven that it was an invisible ceiling glitch triggered by Abate's dsmash on S2J's shield.

/thread

 

[AscendantAquila]

Nothing constructive to say, but this theory could of made sense (Not Really) if you posted this when it happened, NOT when people have already proved what happened and recreated it because it is a fairly well known glitch. In a nutshell the timing of this post is kinda LOL.

 

[-ACE-]

Had s2j dj dair'd abate (again) during the ICG, would there have been any kb?

 

[Plunder]

My theory:

Abate makes virgin sacrifices nightly to gain the favor of RNGeezus.

You don't get back to back misfires and invisible ceiling/floor glitches just by sheer coincidence

And then the way he always turns to the opponenet and shrugs like "woah I don't know how that happened, sorry bruh"
....yea he knew what happened. He always knows what happened.


I'm watching you Abate.

 

[Delta Chae]

Had s2j dj dair'd abate (again) during the ICG, would there have been any kb?

The invisible ceiling glitch as I understand it prevents someone from receiving any vertical knockback until they move up or down on the Y axis either by jumping or by gravity.

 

[o0silentshadow0o]

I don't think you guys are thinking of of the same thing as me...... I am NOT talking about the invisible ceiling glitch that happened when Abate got Up-Smashed by Fox. I am talking about Big House 5, when Abate was D-aired by a Falcon and nothing happened.

Also it is not possible to do the invisible ceiling glitch in the air..... Also, the ceiling glitch does not kill momentum (like what happened at Big house), but instead provides a roof.

 

[o0silentshadow0o]

Nothing constructive to say, but this theory could of made sense (Not Really) if you posted this when it happened, NOT when people have already proved what happened and recreated it because it is a fairly well known glitch. In a nutshell the timing of this post is kinda LOL.

Again, like I said before, it was not the invisible ceiling glitch. In this case Abate was in the AIR, also even if some how he did the invisible ceiling, then it would not have killed the momentum.

 

[o0silentshadow0o]

This is wrong. It's already been proven that it was an invisible ceiling glitch triggered by Abate's dsmash on S2J's shield.

Again, like I said before, it was not the invisible ceiling glitch. In this case Abate was in the AIR, also even if some how he did the invisible ceiling, then it would not have killed the momentum.

 

[Plunder]

Again, like I said before, it was not the invisible ceiling glitch. In this case Abate was in the AIR, also even if some how he did the invisible ceiling, then it would not have killed the momentum.

silentshadow here is the problem. It WAS the invisible ceiling glitch, you just don't understand how it works (not many do)

In that set he just did a normal D-smash on S2J's sheild but he was still in end lag when S2J was able to OoS Knee him, that began the glitch which will not allow anymore VERTICAL KB until he is hit again or is no longer in the air.

It does not fully reset until you've touched the ground again, so it can happen in the AIR afterwards....and quite commonly. Luigi is far more prone to triggering it since he usually is wave-dashing while attacking an opponents shield. One of the very few characters that can move fast while throwing out almost any strong attack, but also susceptible to OoS counters. This all sets up perfectly for ICGs.

 

[Traivlin]

silentshadow here is the problem. It WAS the invisible ceiling glitch, you just don't understand how it works (not many do)

In that set he just did a normal D-smash on S2J's sheild but he was still in end lag when S2J was able to OoS Knee him, that began the glitch which will not allow anymore VERTICAL KB until he is hit again or is no longer in the air.

It does not fully reset until you've touched the ground again, so it can happen in the AIR afterwards....and quite commonly. Luigi is far more prone to triggering it since he usually is wave-dashing while attacking an opponents shield. One of the very few characters that can move fast while throwing out almost any strong attack, but also susceptible to OoS counters. This all sets up perfectly for ICGs.

All of this is basically right except that the glitch activates when you jump out of the slide, that occurs when you hit someone's shield.
If the slide duration is longer than the ending lag duration, you can activate ICG yourself by jumping. Otherwise, someone can activate it for you when they hit you while you're still sliding.

Additionally, you can only activate it yourself, if you hit the left side of someone's shield (or you're on an extremely slippery surface, like the UFO from Fourside). The stored slide duration value is higher on the left side than it is on the right - for some reason.

 

[tauKhan]

As others already said, ICG prevented the stomp from inducing downward momentum on abate. Don't be mislead by the name of the glitch, it also prevents any downward momentum.

Background: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuqFTiVr6Ac
Just watch this just in case you don't know about what happened.

Explanation: It seems that when ever a move like Marth's Up-B or Luigi's Side-B happens the games coding pushes the player (obviously), but what is interesting is that in order to stop this movement, it kills all momentum with another line of code (which determines the length of the move). So if this were true, a well timed move (like S2J's stomp) on the activation of the last code would essentially do nothing to the opponent.

Melee (and all the other smash games to AFAIK, no 100% positive though) uses two independent speed variables to move a character. The character has normal speed, which is often changed in various ways by moves. Marth's upb for example sets his vertical speed very high at certain frames of the animation. Then there's knockback speed, which cannot be altered by any moves, and which decreases over time. On each frame the position of characters are changed based on the vector sum of their normal speed and kb speed.

Getting hit by a move always sets the normal speed of the victim to 0. Combined with the fact that moves don't alter kb speed, the total speed of the char after getting hit cannot be affected from the speed changes caused by the move the char was performing.

Kb speed has some interesting consequences. For example if you get sent upwards by an attack, and then immediately out of hitstun, perform fox sideb that sets your normal vertical speed to 0, you actually rise upwards a bit with the side b because there's usually some kb speed left after hitstun ends.

 

[AirFair]

guys, it was the invisible ceiling glitch why is this thread so long

 

[o0silentshadow0o]

silentshadow here is the problem. It WAS the invisible ceiling glitch, you just don't understand how it works (not many do)

In that set he just did a normal D-smash on S2J's sheild but he was still in end lag when S2J was able to OoS Knee him, that began the glitch which will not allow anymore VERTICAL KB until he is hit again or is no longer in the air.

It does not fully reset until you've touched the ground again, so it can happen in the AIR afterwards....and quite commonly. Luigi is far more prone to triggering it since he usually is wave-dashing while attacking an opponents shield. One of the very few characters that can move fast while throwing out almost any strong attack, but also susceptible to OoS counters. This all sets up perfectly for ICGs.

Wow! Well thank you, that was very informing. :D