Porky Minch: The King of New Pork City

[Merengue]

Who?

A famous and respected member on Smashboards who keeps insisting that the asc is porky and the sprite was an oversight because of cough cough Masked Man Deviantart

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

FIngers crossed for us to get a direct in the next two weeks, this potential direct announcing at least Mother 1 & 2 for the NSO, and of course for Porky in Smash.

They must release it sooner or later, we’re running out of classic games to put on switch online haha.
It’s almost as if they actually do have something planned for the franchise..

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Who?

Someone not active on this thread. That's all that matters. She has no bearing on anything in here, so why she's being brought up is already silly to begin with.

You already know the context(old post, trying to be used as if it's somehow important), etc.

Best thing to do is completely ignore stuff related to it and actually move onto good discussion. What people have as an opinion of ASC is a good discussion, if it's kept to stuff only said in this thread, and only their most recent post(as people do change their minds), and being it's a volatile subject as some take it to mean more than it really is being pointed out as(it just means he's... what, represented in a poor manner? Nobody is remotely making the argument here it affects his chances, since Spirits do not disconfirm alone. Assumingly later spirit events may at best, but that's due to actual reasons behind it beyond being "a gameplay thing already in-game", as that's a loose context that is easy to take wrong). I could go on, but Porky is at most at the whim of Nintendo choosing him and maybe what Sakurai can figure out for a moveset. He doesn't always see what we see. Thankfully the ballot provided a section to give details for ways to make a character playable, so.

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

Someone not active on this thread. That's all that matters. She has no bearing on anything in here, so why she's being brought up is already silly to begin with.

You already know the context(old post, trying to be used as if it's somehow important), etc.

Best thing to do is completely ignore stuff related to it and actually move onto good discussion. What people have as an opinion of ASC is a good discussion, if it's kept to stuff only said in this thread, and only their most recent post(as people do change their minds), and being it's a volatile subject as some take it to mean more than it really is being pointed out as(it just means he's... what, represented in a poor manner? Nobody is remotely making the argument here it affects his chances, since Spirits do not disconfirm alone. Assumingly later spirit events may at best, but that's due to actual reasons behind it beyond being "a gameplay thing already in-game", as that's a loose context that is easy to take wrong). I could go on, but Porky is at most at the whim of Nintendo choosing him and maybe what Sakurai can figure out for a moveset. He doesn't always see what we see. Thankfully the ballot provided a section to give details for ways to make a character playable, so.

Ahh okay gotcha.
But yeah I agree, I’ve reached the point where if we get Porky then that’s great but if we don’t then we can just quietly wait for next time.
Still, I’m surprised a JPEG of a grey ball has been such a hot topic for Porky for this long hahaha

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Who?

Don't bother. The user bringing Gwen up is holding a grudge from ages ago.

It ain't a pretty sight.

 

[MaplePie]

Just here to say something. I think it's just a matter of time until Porky gets into Smash. He has the most circumstantial evidence right now: Missing spirit(clay model), Missing spirits related to the Pigmask Army, no Giygas spirit(the most important character in the entire game). I just know that he will take one of the fp2 slots, apparently he just happened to be the last one. I'm looking forward to hearing that Cease to Exist remix.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Just here to say something. I think it's just a matter of time until Porky gets into Smash. He has the most circumstantial evidence right now: Missing spirit(clay model), Missing spirits related to the Pigmask Army, no Giygas spirit(the most important character in the entire game). I just know that he will take one of the fp2 slots, apparently he just happened to be the last one. I'm looking forward to hearing that Cease to Exist remix.

I also share the optimism.
Though I can see Porky not happening, I'm still on his side that he was meant to be added. Granted, the only "evidence" used for him is his absence, but for the great celebration of Smash as well as its history, forgetting one boss is extremely weird.
We don't have to wait for much longer.

 

[Zeox]

Found a bot that you write a text and from that text it generates a face, so I tested it with Porky 3 times, first I wrote "Porky Minch", then "Porky Minch from Earthbound" and lastly "Porky Minch from Mother 3", the results are terrible lol:

I guess the bot didn't knew what to do with his hairstyle, at least it understood that the character is supposed to be blonde (And apparently that in Mother 3 he's an old mummy too)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Another week without a Direct. Granted there's still a day and two weeks left in the month, so the chances of getting one are still pretty high up, though if we don't get one announced this week, it would be the latest released September direct since 2014.

Found a bot that you write a text and from that text it generates a face, so I tested it with Porky 3 times, first I wrote "Porky Minch", then "Porky Minch from Earthbound" and lastly "Porky Minch from Mother 3", the results are terrible lol:

View attachment 330055

I guess the bot didn't knew what to do with his hairstyle, at least it understood that the character is supposed to be blonde (And apparently that in Mother 3 he's an old mummy too)

Absolutely terrifying!

 

[Merengue]

Gonna make a statement before cp11 and see if it will age like fine wine which it will most likely will.

Porky is not the last character and is in the Absolutely Safe Capsule which was an oversight

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

Gonna make a statement before cp11 and see if it will age like fine wine which it will most likely will.

Porky is not the last character and is in the Absolutely Safe Capsule which was an oversight

Hi Discord person,
Something something, capsule is NOT porky
Something something porky was intended for launch in some form

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Gonna make a statement before cp11 and see if it will age like fine wine which it will most likely will.

Porky is not the last character and is in the Absolutely Safe Capsule which was an oversight

I'm gonna remain optimistic until the end!

Hi Discord person,
Something something, capsule is NOT porky
Something something porky was intended for launch in some formView attachment 330684

I wish we had many more Porky related memes...

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

I wish we had many more Porky related memes...

I try to make some whenever I come up with an idea

 

[Merengue]

Hi Discord person,
Something something, capsule is NOT porky
Something something porky was intended for launch in some formView attachment 330684

He is in the capsule tho. Smashboards was right. I think they didn't name the capsule Porky in order to avoid spoilers. I heard this in the ninten thread

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

He is in the capsule tho. Smashboards was right. I think they didn't name the capsule Porky in order to avoid spoilers. I heard this in the ninten thread

•New Pork city is a spoiler
•Northen cave is a spoiler
•Protoman being in Megaman’s final smash is a spoiler
•Fiore being in Shulk’s final smash is a HUGE spoiler
I honestly don’t think Sakurai cares about spoiling stuff lol
Unless the game is super recent

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

•New Pork city is a spoiler
•Northen cave is a spoiler
•Protoman being in Megaman’s final smash is a spoiler
•Fiore being in Shulk’s final smash is a HUGE spoiler
I honestly don’t think Sakurai cares about spoiling stuff lol
Unless the game is super recent

While a good point normally, Sakurai actually noted his team chose the overall Spirits. He probably saw the Spirit at most, but is unlikely to have noticed there's two versions of the Capsules, which are almost identical at a glance anyway. So there's a pretty good chance he never knew their plans and they never had a reason to tell him every detail. It's a minor Spirit in that case and at worst is a slightly silly name. Technically speaking, whether it's empty or not isn't necessary knowledge anyway. It's still the same item. Thus, it wouldn't be worth questioning development-wise.

That said, it doesn't mean it's "not empty" either. It just means Sakurai isn't the one who is likely to have noticed a minor detail like that.

 

[Megadoomer]

He is in the capsule tho. Smashboards was right. I think they didn't name the capsule Porky in order to avoid spoilers. I heard this in the ninten thread

I'm pretty sure that Porky being in Mother 3 at all is meant to be a spoiler - I'm not sure if they're too concerned about that. (plus, Lucas's trophy from a previous Smash game basically spoiled all of Mother 3, to my knowledge)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

While a good point normally, Sakurai actually noted his team chose the overall Spirits. He probably saw the Spirit at most, but is unlikely to have noticed there's two versions of the Capsules, which are almost identical at a glance anyway. So there's a pretty good chance he never knew their plans and they never had a reason to tell him every detail. It's a minor Spirit in that case and at worst is a slightly silly name. Technically speaking, whether it's empty or not isn't necessary knowledge anyway. It's still the same item. Thus, it wouldn't be worth questioning development-wise.

However we know for a fact they went back to the Mother spirits twice during development to fix a fair amount of spirits which were not correctly representing actual ingame sprites from either Earthbound or Mother 3. Including the ASC, yet they decided to keep it empty despite going at it twice.

He is in the capsule tho. Smashboards was right. I think they didn't name the capsule Porky in order to avoid spoilers. I heard this in the ninten thread

Porky himself is a spoiler, especially his appearance in a mech since both times he only appears in it during the ultimate or penultimate battle. And the trophies descriptions from previous games already spoiled what he did in M3.
Plus, Pyra and Mythra literally have a huge spoiler as a spirit in their list. So they really don't care about spoilers anymore.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

However we know for a fact they went back to the Mother spirits twice during development to fix a fair amount of spirits which were not correctly representing actual ingame sprites from either Earthbound or Mother 3. Including the ASC, yet they decided to keep it empty despite going at it twice.

Those were all either fansprites or image-masking issues. ...So still nothing like a minor detail here. I'm not seeing the similarity. Those were just plain badly done, not noticing a minor design factor that didn't actually matter. The comparison would work if they labeled the ASC as "full" altogether, but they didn't.

It doesn't matter how many times they go over it. It's still a completely accurate name for the sprite whether it's empty or not. It's no less an easy detail to miss for them, just like many others. Ones that have no actual reason to be fixed because it isn't remotely broken. Also, they aren't ones who care the same way about spoiling as Sakurai is, being it doesn't even have in-game text either. Spoilers are wildly inconsistent with spirits.

Also worth noting that spoilers of later spirits would have Sakurai way more at the helm than base-game spirits, so really don't compare very well at all. They're much closer to regular Trophies in terms of spoilers. Spirits barely spoil on their own merits, unless the hard existence of a character is. Besides, if they didn't care about spoilers for some spirits, it would've been labeled Absolute Safety Capsule (Empty), but they didn't label it as is.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Those were all either fansprites or image-masking issues. ...So still nothing like a minor detail here. I'm not seeing the similarity. Those were just plain badly done, not noticing a minor design factor that didn't actually matter. The comparison would work if they labeled the ASC as "full" altogether, but they didn't.

They literally removed one pixel for the Chimera and made the Dungeon Man thinner for no reason, as well as recalibrate some sprites. There were no "fansprites" except the Masked Man one, and I don't see how a pixel in a leg or a color are masking issues.

It doesn't matter how many times they go over it. It's still a completely accurate name for the sprite whether it's empty or not.

Sure, but once again this spirit doesn't mention Porky at all. Nor the Porky statue which was also a boss according to Sakurai in Brawl. Not only is Porky absent, but so is the only other boss through Smash franchise that is directly related to Porky.

It's no less an easy detail to miss for them, just like many others. Ones that have no actual reason to be fixed because it isn't remotely broken. Also, they aren't ones who care the same way about spoiling as Sakurai is, being it doesn't even have in-game text either.

There's literally no evidence for that, if anything the people fixing the spirits months later prove the opposite since they actually went back to it despite having no obligation to do so, lol.

Also worth noting that spoilers of later spirits would have Sakurai way more at the helm than base-game spirits, so really don't compare very well at all. They're much closer to regular Trophies in terms of spoilers. Spirits barely spoil on their own merits, unless the hard existence of a character is.

The point is that they don't care about spoilers. We have spirits proving it in the base game, and others as DLC. It's not a comparison that needs to be made, it's just proof that they already spoiled stuff through spirits or Final Smash.

Besides, if they didn't care about spoilers for some spirits, it would've been labeled Absolute Safety Capsule (Empty), but they didn't label it as is.

Why would have they labeled it (Empty) if there was no full version to add next to it, or labeled it at all? It is, at the end of the day, the ASC. It is noticeable visually if it's empty or full. But if you only have one version, you don't have to add something next to it, which is why you have Bowser (Wedding) with a disctinct keyword due to multiple Bowser spirit appearing, yet you don't have "Shadow Queen (Peach possessed)" because there's no spirit of her real form present in the game at all.

Again, if it was just Porky who was absent, the capsule argument could work, but Porky isn't the only one who has been missing. His statue, which was notable enough for Sakurai to consider him a boss back in the DOJO days, as well as choose him over Petey Piranha and Meta Ridley to return as a trophy in Sm4sh, also was shifted. To an extent, the Pigmask soldier was also the only Mother 3 sticker that didn't return for Ultimate. They simply wiped out the characters who looked or were Porky altogether. I'm not even saying he is guaranteed, but three years later it's still unexplicable why he is completely absent.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

They literally removed one pixel for the Chimera and made the Dungeon Man thinner for no reason, as well as recalibrate some sprites. There were no "fansprites" except the Masked Man one, and I don't see how a pixel in a leg or a color are masking issues.

Those only have one actual design, not two. Still a different situation. There are two very specific ASC designs. That are almost impossible to tell apart.

Sure, but once again this spirit doesn't mention Porky at all. Nor the Porky statue which was also a boss according to Sakurai in Brawl. Not only is Porky absent, but so is the only other boss through Smash franchise that is directly related to Porky.

Those other lack of spirits mean nothing. Sakurai didn't choose the spirits. His team did. It doesn't matter if it mentions Porky or not in any way. You'd only have a point here if it said "Empty" or "Full" in some way. It says nothing. Because they didn't think it through. Let it go, dude.

There's literally no evidence for that, if anything the people fixing the spirits months later prove the opposite since they actually went back to it despite having no obligation to do so, lol.

They're almost identical. This isn't the same as missing a key pixel. So yes, there is evidence that they've constantly missed stuff. They've gone back time and time again. So calling bull that they'd get everything all easily.

The point is that they don't care about spoilers. We have spirits proving it in the base game, and others as DLC. It's not a comparison that needs to be made, it's just proof that they already spoiled stuff through spirits or Final Smash.

Sakurai doesn't. Most of those spoilers are for playable characters anyway, which doesn't count since those have to exist anyway. Also, they're still inconsistent.

Why would have they labeled it (Empty) if there was no full version to add next to it, or labeled it at all? It is, at the end of the day, the ASC. It is noticeable visually if it's empty or full. But if you only have one version, you don't have to add something next to it, which is why you have Bowser (Wedding) with a disctinct keyword due to multiple Bowser spirit appearing, yet you don't have "Shadow Queen (Peach possessed)" because there's no spirit of her real form present in the game at all.

This is exactly why there's no point in saying if Porky is in it or not. They can mean either one without having to say it. Shadow Queen isn't a good example of "needing to be labeled". You can tell the difference between the two. Put two ASC together and barely anyone will notice it. That's the only reason they didn't bother, because nobody can tell a thing. It's a spoiler it's empty too, fyi, and they didn't note it's empty.

Again, if it was just Porky who was absent, the capsule argument could work, but Porky isn't the only one who has been missing. His statue, which was notable enough for Sakurai to consider him a boss back in the DOJO days, as well as choose him over Petey Piranha and Meta Ridley to return as a trophy in Sm4sh, also was shifted. To an extent, the Pigmask soldier was also the only Mother 3 sticker that didn't return for Ultimate. They simply wiped out the characters who looked or were Porky altogether. I'm not even saying he is guaranteed, but three years later it's still unexplicable why he is completely absent.

Why would the team care about his statue? Mother 3 is no longer relevant at all. There's no reason to even care much about Porky for them. It's not like he was early DLC, and thus, needed extra ones. Mother 3 was hyper relevant during Brawl's creation and got a lot of extra content(including a character). It's no longer notable and thus, they don't need to reference every little thing. You're way overstating the statue's need to be there. They didn't need to have the ASC either, and unlike the Porky statue, actually keeps the spoilers intact. Spirits don't actually spoil in the way trophies do, which is why it's inconsistent. You absolutely can make spirits spoiler-free now because no description is required.

The argument doesn't really work anymore. Also, Sakurai was way less at the helm of spirits in general. That means that he isn't going to care about massive representation either. Why would he? No longer his job. He doesn't have to approve any kind of description. He just needs to take a glance. "This series has spirits? Okay, good." is as far as it would go. Also keep in mind a lot of these quick changes to spirits are also cause of the fans saying stuff. It's the reason Mr. Game & Watch got rid of his feather design, cause it was offensive. You're giving way too much credit to the team, as they missed tons of stuff to begin with.

That said, let's assume they actually didn't make an error. I don't see enough evidence for this as conclusive either way. But it doesn't change that there's no reason to bring back every Brawl trophy as a spirit anyway. Porky Statue gone? Big deal. They have new spirits and things to reference instead. Hell, the lack of a normal Porky Spirit makes sense when you realize Sakurai wasn't at the helm. His team chooses whatever spirits they want(only licensed ones they couldn't automatically have). That also means, that, get this, they aren't going to get every spirit you'd expect. No matter how important a character is, etc. There's nothing missing in that regard. It's just not a priority they cared about. Really, it's more weird we're missing a Frogger Spirit from Konami, which is a gaming icon and all, then a simple statue. Porky wasn't brought back as a boss either. Maybe they just didn't think he was worth bringing back as a boss and a spirit. Sure, it sucks to think about, but the reality is, Sakurai and his team has their own priorities and biases. I mean, besides the Mother series being officially over with, having no ports lately to speak of, so it getting nearly as much content as Brawl proportionately was... pretty much never going to happen anyway.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

Those only have one actual design, not two. Still a different situation. There are two very specific ASC designs. That are almost impossible to tell apart.

Actually false. There are different Dungeon Mans and different phones, for example.

Those other lack of spirits mean nothing. Sakurai didn't choose the spirits. His team did. It doesn't matter if it mentions Porky or not in any way. You'd only have a point here if it said "Empty" or "Full" in some way. It says nothing. Because they didn't think it through. Let it go, dude.

They wouldn't have made a precision if it's empty or full if there's only one version of the capsule, the same way they won't make a distinction for any character or item present only once. Again, why would they display "Empty" next to it when they haven't done so for any other spirit
Also you're the one who keeps coming back for more ASC arguments to complain about Porky supporters supporting Porky, lol.

They're almost identical. This isn't the same as missing a key pixel. So yes, there is evidence that they've constantly missed stuff. They've gone back time and time again. So calling bull that they'd get everything all easily.

They're far from identical, one has plenty more pixels in the middle while the other doesn't. And they fixed the missed stuff so far. Plus on over 1300 spirits, only making a mistake on 10 of them, I'd say they were pretty great, so unless you bring proof that they really didn't bother making sure on which sprites or pngs they pick and didn't fix them (because so far they did fix the obviously wrong ones), I don't see why you assume Sakurai's team doesn't care.

Sakurai doesn't. Most of those spoilers are for playable characters anyway, which doesn't count since those have to exist anyway. Also, they're still inconsistent.

A bit easy to say those don't count because they are for playable character, heh. They didn't have to add Mecha Fiora or Zero into final smashes, yet they did. Also many spirit battles spoil events in their related games. I don't even see what you're arguing there since we seem to agree that Sakurai nor his team care about spoilers.

This is exactly why there's no point in saying if Porky is in it or not. They can mean either one without having to say it. Shadow Queen isn't a good example of "needing to be labeled". You can tell the difference between the two. Put two ASC together and barely anyone will notice it. That's the only reason they didn't bother, because nobody can tell a thing. It's a spoiler it's empty too, fyi, and they didn't note it's empty.

Yet they made differences between the Marx and Nightmare versions despite these being easy to differentiate, or even Shaymin. However they didn't do the distinction for the Shadow Queen because there's only one version of her.
So why would they bother make a precision it's empty in the title when you have only one version of the spirit?

Why would the team care about his statue? Mother 3 is no longer relevant at all. There's no reason to even care much about Porky for them. It's not like he was early DLC, and thus, needed extra ones. Mother 3 was hyper relevant during Brawl's creation and got a lot of extra content(including a character). It's no longer notable and thus, they don't need to reference every little thing. You're way overstating the statue's need to be there. They didn't need to have the ASC either, and unlike the Porky statue, actually keeps the spoilers intact. Spirits don't actually spoil in the way trophies do, which is why it's inconsistent. You absolutely can make spirits spoiler-free now because no description is required.

They didn't have to bring the Statue nor Porky back for Smash for Wii U/3DS, yet they did. Frankly you can say that the team didn't have to care for F ZERO either, yet they did because they still care about representing the series' most important characters, especially considering their roles in Smash. Which is something that, contrary to 95% of the names thrown around these websites, the Statue has, since it was a boss according to Sakurai in Smash. Sure, he doesn't need to be there, but they bothered bringing back Duon and Tabuu as spirits, as well as other bosses as spirits. They also made sure to have every assist trophies as AT, even using some Brawl pngs. Yes, I do believe that both Porky and his statue being absent are noteworthy.

The argument doesn't really work anymore. Also, Sakurai was way less at the helm of spirits in general. That means that he isn't going to care about massive representation either. Why would he? No longer his job. He doesn't have to approve any kind of description. He just needs to take a glance. "This series has spirits? Okay, good." is as far as it would go. Also keep in mind a lot of these quick changes to spirits are also cause of the fans saying stuff. It's the reason Mr. Game & Watch got rid of his feather design, cause it was offensive. You're giving way too much credit to the team, as they missed tons of stuff to begin with.

Pretty sure that Sakurai still is making demands for spirits in recent DLC, as seen with Pyra and Mythra where he required the team for a Pneumia png. Also "tons of stuff", really? Which stuff besides G&W and the Mother spirits that they eventually fixed anyway?

That said, let's assume they actually didn't make an error. I don't see enough evidence for this as conclusive either way. But it doesn't change that there's no reason to bring back every Brawl trophy as a spirit anyway. Porky Statue gone? Big deal. They have new spirits and things to reference instead. Hell, the lack of a normal Porky Spirit makes sense when you realize Sakurai wasn't at the helm. His team chooses whatever spirits they want(only licensed ones they couldn't automatically have). That also means, that, get this, they aren't going to get every spirit you'd expect. No matter how important a character is, etc. There's nothing missing in that regard. It's just not a priority they cared about. Really, it's more weird we're missing a Frogger Spirit from Konami, which is a gaming icon and all, then a simple statue. Porky wasn't brought back as a boss either. Maybe they just didn't think he was worth bringing back as a boss and a spirit. Sure, it sucks to think about, but the reality is, Sakurai and his team has their own priorities and biases. I mean, besides the Mother series being officially over with, having no ports lately to speak of, so it getting nearly as much content as Brawl proportionately was... pretty much never going to happen anyway.

So they somehow decided to reference every previous ATs, every previous bosses, also decided to reference major characters from the Mother franchise except the recurring villain of the two most popular games in the series, who was also a boss in Brawl, despite you seemingly believing they simply didn't care about it (despite the team not bothering changing Petey Piranha at all and leaving it with the two cages), but cared about a previous Smash OC that appeared only once with Duon. Nope, not buying it, lol.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

First, not every previous boss returned. Second, Rayquaza is still usable in current games, thus making more relevant than Porky. It's Pokemon, which, well, you know, is ten times bigger than Mother ever was? Trying to compare that to Mother is meaningless. Mother was never in a good position this game to get good content.

The Wii U actually got EarthBound Beginnings. They were already going to be promoting Mother more. Naturally it got better content during Smash 4. Now it's not getting any new things to promote. Thus, it has less content this game. It's not surprising in the single least.

Every single character only has one spirit except Claus who also has Masked Man. ASC is a strict reference to Porky(being his vehicle, thus, not like Porky Statue which is more of an enemy and not hard tied to Porky in the same way), thus, is the closest to noting he exists. If it's empty, it means he somehow escaped from being turned into a Spirit. If it isn't, and they made a mistake, he became a Spirit inside it. Both make sense for the purpose behind spirits anyway, so it doesn't matter what it is.

AT's have nothing to do with bosses. Besides, ASC doesn't have a Spirit Battle either. It's just summonable. Why? Who knows. Being a reference to Porky is probably all they had in mind. He doesn't have to be in it to be a reference. For instance, Samus' gunship is in a Paper Mario game. Is that not somehow a reference to Samus, since it's her vehicle? Cause that's the argument you're making, and it makes no sense. He not directly appearing doesn't mean he lacks a reference. It means he isn't directly appearing. Porky Statue isn't even Porky, but an enemy in a game. It's about as much of a reference to Porky as any regular enemy would be. "It's under his command". But either way, it's not like it had a reason to be there with the entire series finished, no re-releases coming anytime soon... so it had less spirits you'd expect. Though keep in mind the fact that almost every Mother character gets one spirit alone. Masked Man and Claus are a hard exception, and people don't even know they're the same person anyway. That is never spoiled in this game either way. Something worth noting is they actually barely can spoil anything with a spirit. How can you? You have no description. Pyra and Mythra being the same person is a spoiler, btw. Smash doesn't spoil it. Sakurai did on his own, but Smash didn't. Zelda/Sheik were spoiled by being a regular transformation, not a switch out. So spoilers are too inconsistent, and coupled with some Spirits specifying things like their form, it's even more weird they couldn't have noted it's empty while using that design. Or it's just that, they thought it was full and felt no need to spoil it. Actually, it being full or empty is a spoiler, and they didn't spoiler it either way on its details. Nobody has any way of knowing Porky's connection to it as a Spirit, which maybe is intentional too. Maybe that's why it's Empty as well, to make it less obvious.

Not that it matters, since even despite it being empty, the other points stand. Mother wasn't in a good position to get as much content as before(it got pretty clearly bare minimum for Spirits. Just enough references to tons of characters). Not every boss returned as fightable, and if a boss had a Sprit, it's for other reasons anyway(see: Rayquaza). Duon doesn't return as a boss either, so clearly it wasn't that important to have every boss directly back. They are referenced either way. If ASC was gone, Porky would have zero references overall. Instead you get one instead of two or three Spriits.

 

[Merengue]

Those were all either fansprites or image-masking issues. ...So still nothing like a minor detail here. I'm not seeing the similarity. Those were just plain badly done, not noticing a minor design factor that didn't actually matter. The comparison would work if they labeled the ASC as "full" altogether, but they didn't.

It doesn't matter how many times they go over it. It's still a completely accurate name for the sprite whether it's empty or not. It's no less an easy detail to miss for them, just like many others. Ones that have no actual reason to be fixed because it isn't remotely broken. Also, they aren't ones who care the same way about spoiling as Sakurai is, being it doesn't even have in-game text either. Spoilers are wildly inconsistent with spirits.

Also worth noting that spoilers of later spirits would have Sakurai way more at the helm than base-game spirits, so really don't compare very well at all. They're much closer to regular Trophies in terms of spoilers. Spirits barely spoil on their own merits, unless the hard existence of a character is. Besides, if they didn't care about spoilers for some spirits, it would've been labeled Absolute Safety Capsule (Empty), but they didn't label it as is.

This!! This guy is saying the truth. It was just an oversight! Reminder that this is the same team that used a Deviant Art Fanart of Masked Man

•New Pork city is a spoiler
•Northen cave is a spoiler
•Protoman being in Megaman’s final smash is a spoiler
•Fiore being in Shulk’s final smash is a HUGE spoiler
I honestly don’t think Sakurai cares about spoiling stuff lol
Unless the game is super recent

Ahem Masked Man and Claus as separate spirits.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Ahem Masked Man and Claus as separate spirits.

In a sense, them being separate spirits may be less of a spoiler.

That said, I know you're down from the echo chamber, but you should perk up. Believe what you legit want to believe.

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

First, not every previous boss returned.

Yes, they did. They all appear as spirits at the minimum, if not with other roles such as Rayquaza being a stage hazard.

Second, Rayquaza is still usable in current games, thus making more relevant than Porky. It's Pokemon, which, well, you know, is ten times bigger than Mother ever was? Trying to compare that to Mother is meaningless. Mother was never in a good position this game to get good content.

You're the only one comparing Pokemon to Mother. Dunno why you do that.

The Wii U actually got EarthBound Beginnings. They were already going to be promoting Mother more. Naturally it got better content during Smash 4. Now it's not getting any new things to promote. Thus, it has less content this game. It's not surprising in the single least.

It's the first time I read they actuall add content to specific franchises to promote future releases, especially ones that were not known back when Smash for Wii U/3DS were in development. But there's actually more Eartbound content in Ultimate than on Wii U/3DS, does that suggest more Earthbound characters or games coming?

Every single character only has one spirit except Claus who also has Masked Man. ASC is a strict reference to Porky(being his vehicle, thus, not like Porky Statue which is more of an enemy and not hard tied to Porky in the same way), thus, is the closest to noting he exists. If it's empty, it means he somehow escaped from being turned into a Spirit. If it isn't, and they made a mistake, he became a Spirit inside it. Both make sense for the purpose behind spirits anyway, so it doesn't matter what it is.

And it's not Porky so again I don't see why you bring up the ASC.

AT's have nothing to do with bosses.

It's an example to show that the team cared enough to make sure all AT's were back.

Besides, ASC doesn't have a Spirit Battle either. It's just summonable. Why? Who knows. Being a reference to Porky is probably all they had in mind.

But it's not Porky, which is what I'm stating from the start. Apparently the made-up version is that they decided to only make a reference to Porky when they haven't done so for any character. Apparently Porky was the one character they decided to make a joke-reference to, which is absurd to believe.

He doesn't have to be in it to be a reference. For instance, Samus' gunship is in a Paper Mario game. Is that not somehow a reference to Samus, since it's her vehicle?

Paper Mario has nothing to do with Smash

Cause that's the argument you're making, and it makes no sense. He not directly appearing doesn't mean he lacks a reference. It means he isn't directly appearing.

The ASC is directly tied to Andonuts, not Porky as shown by the way to summon it referencing only him and not Porky somehow.

Porky Statue isn't even Porky, but an enemy in a game.

Which is directly named Porky and looks like Porky.

It's about as much of a reference to Porky as any regular enemy would be. "It's under his command". But either way, it's not like it had a reason to be there with the entire series finished, no re-releases coming anytime soon... so it had less spirits you'd expect. Though keep in mind the fact that almost every Mother character gets one spirit alone. Masked Man and Claus are a hard exception, and people don't even know they're the same person anyway. That is never spoiled in this game either way. Something worth noting is they actually barely can spoil anything with a spirit. How can you? You have no description.

They already spoiled it in previous Smash games where they revealed that Lucas's mother dies or that his brother was made into a cyborg. Sure, if you never play any game you'll never get any major spoiler, but the spirit battles clearly spoil most stuff.

Pyra and Mythra being the same person is a spoiler, btw. Smash doesn't spoil it. Sakurai did on his own, but Smash didn't. Zelda/Sheik were spoiled by being a regular transformation, not a switch out. So spoilers are too inconsistent, and coupled with some Spirits specifying things like their form, it's even more weird they couldn't have noted it's empty while using that design. Or it's just that, they thought it was full and felt no need to spoil it. Actually, it being full or empty is a spoiler, and they didn't spoiler it either way on its details. Nobody has any way of knowing Porky's connection to it as a Spirit, which maybe is intentional too. Maybe that's why it's Empty as well, to make it less obvious.

Again, you're three posts in and you still couldn't be bothered to explain WHY they have to explain if it's empty or full when they didn't do so for any other spirit. It's not an obligation as they haven't done so for others.[/QUOTE]

Not that it matters, since even despite it being empty, the other points stand. Mother wasn't in a good position to get as much content as before(it got pretty clearly bare minimum for Spirits. Just enough references to tons of characters). Not every boss returned as fightable, and if a boss had a Sprit, it's for other reasons anyway(see: Rayquaza). Duon doesn't return as a boss either, so clearly it wasn't that important to have every boss directly back. They are referenced either way. If ASC was gone, Porky would have zero references overall. Instead you get one instead of two or three Spriits.

However Ice Climbers, or G&W, or even F Zero got significantly more content despite being in the same, if not worse boat than Mother, so not a good explanation at all. Plus Duon got a spirit, contrary to Porky or Porky's statue.
Also if you consider that the Porky statue is NOT Porky, then we also have no reference to another boss that is the Porky statue.

That said, I know you're down from the echo chamber, but you should perk up. Believe what you legit want to believe.

If we don't support our character here, where will we?

 

[MaplePie]

Those only have one actual design, not two. Still a different situation. There are two very specific ASC designs. That are almost impossible to tell apart.


Those other lack of spirits mean nothing. Sakurai didn't choose the spirits. His team did. It doesn't matter if it mentions Porky or not in any way. You'd only have a point here if it said "Empty" or "Full" in some way. It says nothing. Because they didn't think it through. Let it go, dude.


They're almost identical. This isn't the same as missing a key pixel. So yes, there is evidence that they've constantly missed stuff. They've gone back time and time again. So calling bull that they'd get everything all easily.


Sakurai doesn't. Most of those spoilers are for playable characters anyway, which doesn't count since those have to exist anyway. Also, they're still inconsistent.


This is exactly why there's no point in saying if Porky is in it or not. They can mean either one without having to say it. Shadow Queen isn't a good example of "needing to be labeled". You can tell the difference between the two. Put two ASC together and barely anyone will notice it. That's the only reason they didn't bother, because nobody can tell a thing. It's a spoiler it's empty too, fyi, and they didn't note it's empty.


Why would the team care about his statue? Mother 3 is no longer relevant at all. There's no reason to even care much about Porky for them. It's not like he was early DLC, and thus, needed extra ones. Mother 3 was hyper relevant during Brawl's creation and got a lot of extra content(including a character). It's no longer notable and thus, they don't need to reference every little thing. You're way overstating the statue's need to be there. They didn't need to have the ASC either, and unlike the Porky statue, actually keeps the spoilers intact. Spirits don't actually spoil in the way trophies do, which is why it's inconsistent. You absolutely can make spirits spoiler-free now because no description is required.

The argument doesn't really work anymore. Also, Sakurai was way less at the helm of spirits in general. That means that he isn't going to care about massive representation either. Why would he? No longer his job. He doesn't have to approve any kind of description. He just needs to take a glance. "This series has spirits? Okay, good." is as far as it would go. Also keep in mind a lot of these quick changes to spirits are also cause of the fans saying stuff. It's the reason Mr. Game & Watch got rid of his feather design, cause it was offensive. You're giving way too much credit to the team, as they missed tons of stuff to begin with.

That said, let's assume they actually didn't make an error. I don't see enough evidence for this as conclusive either way. But it doesn't change that there's no reason to bring back every Brawl trophy as a spirit anyway. Porky Statue gone? Big deal. They have new spirits and things to reference instead. Hell, the lack of a normal Porky Spirit makes sense when you realize Sakurai wasn't at the helm. His team chooses whatever spirits they want(only licensed ones they couldn't automatically have). That also means, that, get this, they aren't going to get every spirit you'd expect. No matter how important a character is, etc. There's nothing missing in that regard. It's just not a priority they cared about. Really, it's more weird we're missing a Frogger Spirit from Konami, which is a gaming icon and all, then a simple statue. Porky wasn't brought back as a boss either. Maybe they just didn't think he was worth bringing back as a boss and a spirit. Sure, it sucks to think about, but the reality is, Sakurai and his team has their own priorities and biases. I mean, besides the Mother series being officially over with, having no ports lately to speak of, so it getting nearly as much content as Brawl proportionately was... pretty much never going to happen anyway.

Dude what are you talking about? Yoshi literally brought all this evidence, but you instantly dismiss it as "ohhhh you can barely see the difference. no matter how many times they go back to the sprite, they'll always use the wrong sprite" Don't give me that bs that sakurai's team couldn't see the difference when it's actually notable. I have some sight issues, but even I could see the difference. Don't pull up that Masked Man deviantart/fanart card when they fixed it. Unlike the masked man deviant art thing, it's more easy to find the difference between the the two capsule sprites rather than the masked man arts. Also, I believe the occupied spirit was shown more commonly as the first results when you search up absolutely safe capsule before smash ultimate was a thing, so it was most likely done deliberately. They revised the sprites several times including revising the capsule itself while it still retains its empty status. How is that not enough evidence to prove it? dude you're telling him to let it go lmao please.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Dude what are you talking about? Yoshi literally brought all this evidence, but you instantly dismiss it as "ohhhh you can barely see the difference. no matter how many times they go back to the sprite, they'll always use the wrong sprite" Don't give me that bs that sakurai's team couldn't see the difference when it's actually notable. I have some sight issues, but even I could see the difference. Don't pull up that Masked Man deviantart/fanart card when they fixed it. Unlike the masked man deviant art thing, it's more easy to find the difference between the the two capsule sprites rather than the masked man arts. Also, I believe the occupied spirit was shown more commonly as the first results when you search up absolutely safe capsule before smash ultimate was a thing, so it was most likely done deliberately. They revised the sprites several times including revising the capsule itself while it still retains its empty status. How is that not enough evidence to prove it? dude you're telling him to let it go lmao please.

And that doesn't make them infallible regardless.

But more importantly, and clearly, it's a straight-out Porky reference. But the joke clearly has failed research anyway. It being empty means somehow Porky escaped before Galeem could turn objects and people into spirits. That's not actually possible in the series to begin with, meaning they simply don't know how it works. So no matter what, they made a mistake here. If they had the right sprite, it's for the wrong reasons. It's actually much more logical for them to have simply not realized the sprite is different. Especially when they are not actually easy to tell apart in the long run. They're minor differences, just like Cloud's costumes.

You're assuming they constantly saw both capsules back to back. Yet the Mother Wiki only has one sprite. You could tell the difference because you deliberately knew and looked for it. Seeing as they failed research tons of times? Yeah, they clearly didn't notice the difference anyway as much as you claim.

I don't buy they couldn't have made a mistake. With me being completely unconvinced they didn't make an error overall, I'm not going to continue this whatsoever.

I'm not sure why a personal anecdote of you taking the time to research a sprite back to back means much when as a sprite artist, I can tell you the opposite things happens when you go over hundreds of sprites constantly. You miss details. Often. Because you're human. I miss details when trying to put sprites together, or putting a bunch of sprites near each other for another person. Most people can't tell these things apart because they don't have the time to. But even if they did have the right sprite, see above for why it's being used incorrectly as a Porky reference. There's no way Porky is completely absent in being referenced(otherwise they Porky Statue would be there too, so he's at least somewhat acknowledged, despite it not being a direct reference to him anyway), since as noted, every other boss is there. Yoshi pretty much gave some pretty hard proof it's a reference. Cause no boss was actually missed in any way. Some were obviously not straight spirits in comparison.

That said, I'm done with this. You keep trying to convince me they "couldn't have made some error in how they wanted to reference Porky", but it doesn't add up. I can believe it's empty. But that's as far as it can go. So I'm not going to be part of this conversation any longer. That also means I will not reply if you quote me.

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

This!! This guy is saying the truth. It was just an oversight! Reminder that this is the same team that used a Deviant Art Fanart of Masked Man


Ahem Masked Man and Claus as separate spirits.

Yeah..
to avoid spoilers.
Although I guess it’s still a moot point as this has already been spoiled by brawl’s trophies.
Man, this thread pops off every time I’m away haha

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Yeah..
to avoid spoilers.
Although I guess it’s still a moot point as this has already been spoiled by brawl’s trophies.
Man, this thread pops off every time I’m away haha

Though those coming only into Ultimate are much harder to spoiler on its own. Looking it up, sure. But as of now, Spirits barely are able to spoiler on their own. Some are still confused by what effects they have at times, or why it uses a specific character. They're cool, but designed in a way that is... very uninformative.

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

Though those coming only into Ultimate are much harder to spoiler on its own. Looking it up, sure. But as of now, Spirits barely are able to spoiler on their own. Some are still confused by what effects they have at times, or why it uses a specific character. They're cool, but designed in a way that is... very uninformative.

I wonder if spirits will come back next game, or some kind of variant with a different name as with more characters and series being in the games over time, it’ll be even harder to make models for everything

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I wonder if spirits will come back next game, or some kind of variant with a different name as with more characters and series being in the games over time, it’ll be even harder to make models for everything

Considering they're hyper easy to make? Yeah, they're all but guaranteed. If something similar isn't done in their place. It's the lack of descriptions that's an issue, not them being images. But those takes a long time to properly translate, etc.

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

Considering they're hyper easy to make? Yeah, they're all but guaranteed. If something similar isn't done in their place. It's the lack of descriptions that's an issue, not them being images. But those takes a long time to properly translate, etc.

Yeah I agree, I do miss the mini history lessons that came with the trophies.
Even a super basic one would be nice

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I wonder if spirits will come back next game, or some kind of variant with a different name as with more characters and series being in the games over time, it’ll be even harder to make models for everything

I would prefer fewer trophies but having them telling us about the characters. PNGs are really not as cool as trophies, despite how Sakurai tried justifying it. Hell, even pngs with just two or three sentences would have been fine.

 

[SuperMrpingpong]

Smells like a first party smash character reveal.
(If we get a reveal that is)

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

View attachment 331100
Smells like a first party smash character reveal.
(If we get a reveal that is)

Hopeful too. I do think we are getting one since we always had a reveal during these directs and they didn't go out of their way to say there won't be anything Smash related opposed to other Directs where they said that.
This is our last sprint, my friends!

 

[ROBnWatch]

I’m not as convinced we’ll get the reveal. This is the last character after all, I feel like they may want to emphasize that/give it special attention. Maybe a date for the final Smash Direct instead, where we get both the reveal and Sakurai Presents (like Byleth)? Either way, I assume we will get some form of Smash news.

 

[Merengue]

I found this funny joke on the internet lol. Thought it was interesting to share.

 

[Baba]

If the trailer starts with the "heroes/villains" artwork again like with K.Rool, it'll be Porky.

 

[Merengue]

If the trailer starts with the "heroes/villains" artwork again like with K.Rool, it'll be Porky.

It'll be Eggman