Poll: Would you be fine with different Ice Climbers for both games?

[Mario123311]

Just having "Ice Climber" would have been an easy solution, Buff Popo and make him a single character. I mean: You played him Solo in Melee's target test.

 

[Magikarpow]

I clicked yes, but overall I would rather a Wii U exclusive character. It gives people another reason to buy the console version.

 

[FrankTheStud]

I'd prefer for them both to be on Wii U and 3DS, just make Nana 30FPS on 3DS like Olimar's Pikmin. No one will care that the A.I. is terrible because no one plays 3DS competitively. I'm starting to think the issue isn't graphic fidelity, but the fact that the 3DS's AI obviously isn't as smart as Wii U's.

 

[ryuu seika]

Honestly, I don't care for Ice Climbers. And I'm getting tired of all the DLC being cut veterans. I expect them all back eventually, but out of the four characters we got, three were just guys we've already seen. But I digress. The thing about Ice Climbers is that, everyone says that their iconic for being two in one, but in all honesty, Ice Climbers was simply a two-player game. You could beat the entire game just playing as Popo, and I persoanlly think it's more fun that way. So, the only reason Ice Climbers should have both Popo and Nana is the same reason that we already have so many cut characters: people are too scared of losing their previous mains. I have to admit, if R.O.B got cut, I'd be the same way, but I think people have to move on and live with just one Ice Climber on their 3DS or just deal with none at all and go play as them in Melee or Project M or Brawl. Just because they aren't in the current game doesn't mean you'll never play them again, you just have to go back and enjoy them. Now, sorry for the rant, becauze I entirely see why people want cut characters like IC back so badly, that was just my take on the subject.

I have no objection to Ice Climbers being changed. I don't main them and never will. I'm not demanding that they stay the same and I'm not saying that the "2 characters in 1" aspect is representative of who the characters were at all. All I am saying is that, within the Smash series, that is their unique gimmick and taking it away would result in a completely different character with far less appeal. You might aswell make someone new at that point because new characters are inherently more appealing than veterans IMO.

Having to keep every character the same is why we still have Zero Suit now she's nolonger relevant and why Gannondorf still fights like Falcon. Sakurai even outright said as much on the latter.

 

[Splebel]

I'd prefer for them both to be on Wii U and 3DS, just make Nana 30FPS on 3DS like Olimar's Pikmin. No one will care that the A.I. is terrible because no one plays 3DS competitively. I'm starting to think the issue isn't graphic fidelity, but the fact that the 3DS's AI obviously isn't as smart as Wii U's.

No the AI is the same, they even patched it at one point to make it the same. Having Nana at 30fps would definitely be jarring on the eyes and I also don't know what made the Ice Climbers not work on the 3DS but lowering the amount of frames might not do it.

What seems to be the case, also why sheik and the like split up was because the 3DS can only load so much at one time and the amount of info was too great even with removing every nonessential bone AND removing gravity completely. I don't know if you ever coded something like that but that is very computing intensive.

 

[Magikarpow]

Sakurai even stated that he just barly got Olimar to work.

 

[FrankTheStud]

No the AI is the same, they even patched it at one point to make it the same. Having Nana at 30fps would definitely be jarring on the eyes and I also don't know what made the Ice Climbers not work on the 3DS but lowering the amount of frames might not do it.

What seems to be the case, also why sheik and the like split up was because the 3DS can only load so much at one time and the amount of info was too great even with removing every nonessential bone AND removing gravity completely. I don't know if you ever coded something like that but that is very computing intensive.

Play against level 9 CPUs in each version--The AI is not the same. I'm just offering an idea to keep them working as a couple because I want them back. No one plays 3DS competitively, so it's not a big deal if one assisting Icie was 30FPS--They'll be 60 on Wii U of course, but the fact is that the 3DS is literally why the Icies are gone, but if we can get them to function, even if it's poorly, we can at least have them back on Wii U. If they can get them both 60 on New 3DS, but frametrap Nana at 30 on a regular 3DS, all the better.

 

[Splebel]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_updates_(SSB4-3DS)
Look at the update for 1.05 and it says the 3DS AI was updated to match the Wii U AI.


I kind of wished the 3DS version was played competitively. It has some fun stages.

 

[ryuu seika]

Play against level 9 CPUs in each version--The AI is not the same. I'm just offering an idea to keep them working as a couple because I want them back. No one plays 3DS competitively, so it's not a big deal if one assisting Icie was 30FPS--They'll be 60 on Wii U of course, but the fact is that the 3DS is literally why the Icies are gone, but if we can get them to function, even if it's poorly, we can at least have them back on Wii U. If they can get them both 60 on New 3DS, but frametrap Nana at 30 on a regular 3DS, all the better.

I might possibly be OK with it at a stretch if they were identical between New 3DS and WiiU. It's annoying console pushing but it does technically keep the versions the same rosterwise, upholding the initial promise.

 

[FrankTheStud]

http://www.ssbwiki.com/List_of_updates_(SSB4-3DS)
Look at the update for 1.05 and it says the 3DS AI was updated to match the Wii U AI.


I kind of wished the 3DS version was played competitively. It has some fun stages.

Perhaps I need to experiment more... I can 2 stock 3DS level 9's much easier than Wii U--They're very predictable. I could be wrong about the differences due to placebo, but they still seem easier to read and have slower reaction time.
I wish all 3DS stages were ported to Wii U because their stages are nice. It'll never be played too competetively because of input lag that's possible over wireless... Even cell phone wireless signals interfere... This is unfortunate, but true.

 

[FrankTheStud]

I might possibly be OK with it at a stretch if they were identical between New 3DS and WiiU. It's annoying console pushing but it does technically keep the versions the same rosterwise, upholding the initial promise.

Exxxxactly!

 

[FunAtParties]

I have to say I'm glad to see the majority of the votes are in favor of this idea, though I'm not exactly satisfied with such a small sample size. Anyone else wanna put in their input? Good or bad it could help us understand exactly what the communities stance on this is.

 

[TheBeardedPunisher]

If the Smash team was willing to pull some strings, many strings on any form of exclusivity regarding characters, I'd prefer this over Ice Climbers appearing only on the Wii U version. It definitely has distinct pros and cons. I'd like to imagine the playstyles on each version are representative of the version they're on. With the 3DS, the home, it's more about the player individually. A solo Ice Climber on the 3DS would help emphasize that purpose and the modification would express a level of customization and giving players a new option. 3DS owners wouldn't feel as left out since they don't lose a character, and they'll know they got a brand new and fresh idea out of a veteran that only they can experience. A personal treat. On the Wii U, the stadium, having traditional Ice Climbers would emphasize the multiplayer aspects, console power, and micromanaging strategies. Playing locally with a friend can be expressed by how the Ice Climbers play traditionally as a duo. They show teamwork and equal pairing. It has that sense of togetherness.

The only issues I can see from this on paper would be how it affects the meta game, which is generally focused on the console game mainly, and the extra amount of work required to make two different playstyles for one character. It may need additional resources to flesh out two different things and it would be debated upon to see if it's worth the extra work. But if the team were to be open to an idea like this, then I would certainly be in favor of it as it gives ICies to both versions without the hassle of trying to find out if they can work eventually through countless modifications that may all fail.

 

[FunAtParties]

The only issues I can see from this on paper would be how it affects the meta game, which is generally focused on the console game mainly, and the extra amount of work required to make two different playstyles for one character. It may need additional resources to flesh out two different things and it would be debated upon to see if it's worth the extra work. But if the team were to be open to an idea like this, then I would certainly be in favor of it as it gives ICies to both versions without the hassle of trying to find out if they can work eventually through countless modifications that may all fail.

I think the interesting thing about the two different IC idea is, it could instantly make the 3DS version competitive again. I mean think about it, most competitive players have moved on to the Wii U right, but with a new character that can't really be found on the other version (Sopo) there may be a reason for some to go back. And who knows, maybe that'll end up developing crazy Sopo play the likes before we've never seen. It'll give so many opportunities to advance the meta, it's almost too good to pass up.

I also think it'd be hilarious to watch 3DS doubles tournaments with teams of Sopos an Sonas. I can just imagine the commentary now. It'll be beautiful.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

Another (crazy) idea I have for 3DS's sake is to have Popo have a regular model but Nana is just a sprite. Or have them both be sprites.
I wanted a handheld Smash to be sprite based. Sad that it never came to be.

 

[FunAtParties]

Another (crazy) idea I have for 3DS's sake is to have Popo have a regular model but Nana is just a sprite. Or have them both be sprites.
I wanted a handheld Smash to be sprite based. Sad that it never came to be.

This is the best idea I've heard so far.

 

[ryuu seika]

Since it'd be nothing more than a visual difference, I would be fine with sprites, though I'm sure if that were enough to solve the problem Sakurai would have done it already.

 

[FunAtParties]

Since it'd be nothing more than a visual difference, I would be fine with sprites, though I'm sure if that were enough to solve the problem Sakurai would have done it already.

Doubt it. He's very specific with his vision and doesn't like to compromise it for anything. If this wasn't his vision, then he wouldn't have even considered it.

 

[ryuu seika]

Doubt it. He's very specific with his vision and doesn't like to compromise it for anything. If this wasn't his vision, then he wouldn't have even considered it.

Yet it would fit in perfectly with their retro origins and he claimed they tried a lot of different things to get Ice Climbers to work. I would be surprised if that wasn't one of those things.

 

[FunAtParties]

Yet it would fit in perfectly with their retro origins and he claimed they tried a lot of different things to get Ice Climbers to work. I would be surprised if that wasn't one of those things.

I'd be surprised if it was. Not exactly an obvious idea, doubt he even thought about it to be honest.

 

[Flaxr XIII]

My guess is the issue mostly lies on Nana's AI. Even though she's mostly mimicking Popo, I imagine there's issue when they de sync.

I would suggest they tether Nana to get her to stay freaking put.

 

[FunAtParties]

My guess is the issue mostly lies on Nana's AI. Even though she's mostly mimicking Popo, I imagine there's issue when they de sync.

I would suggest they tether Nana to get her to stay freaking put.

I can deal with them getting rid of desync for one game, or at the very least limiting it to throws.

 

[ryuu seika]

Ice Climbers would also require that the grab limiter be changed from preventing you from regrabbing to preventing you from being regrabbed.

 

[FunAtParties]

Ice Climbers would also require that the grab limiter be changed from preventing you from regrabbing to preventing you from being regrabbed.

I think it would be fine if you grabbed at a certain percentage. Then you could switch between Popo and Nana every 3 seconds w/o having to change anything.

 

[OctiVick]

I wouldn't mind having a solo Ice Climber but I always thought and interesting way to keep them both on both versions is to make the both of them one character/model like duck hunt or, if you want to be really obscure, some of the team characters in CN Punch Time Explosion.

I do own both WiiU and 3DS, and I see where people are coming from when the thought of version only characters come up. I would feel salty too if I only had one version while the other has character exclusives. I mean stages and modes are important for each version but the characters themselves are what people are attached to and I see why there was such a strong focus on keeping at least the roster the same on both versions.

Welp those are my two cents.

 

[Splebel]

I can deal with them getting rid of desync for one game, or at the very least limiting it to throws.

Desync seems to be a glitch more than an intended feature. Nana is programmed to do everything Popo does and if she ends up having to do something else she tries to play catch-up causing the desync. So it's not really something you can take out. Having Nana as a sprite would alleviate the issue if it was too graphically intensive but not if it was computing intensive. Although Nana wouldn't have any bones to compute so... I don't know if it would work; plus only one being sprite based would look weird.

 

[FunAtParties]

Desync seems to be a glitch more than an intended feature. Nana is programmed to do everything Popo does and if she ends up having to do something else she tries to play catch-up causing the desync. So it's not really something you can take out. Having Nana as a sprite would alleviate the issue if it was too graphically intensive but not if it was computing intensive. Although Nana wouldn't have any bones to compute so... I don't know if it would work; plus only one being sprite based would look weird.

Sprites can look nice. No one said it had to be 8 or 16 bit, although I think it would look fine.

 

[ryuu seika]

I agree with Splebel, 2 sprite climbers or none please.

 

[Splebel]

Sprites can look nice. No one said it had to be 8 or 16 bit, although I think it would look fine.

I didn't say it wouldn't but they should be the same style is what I'm saying like this guy.

I agree with Splebel, 2 sprite climbers or none please.

 

[FunAtParties]

I didn't say it wouldn't but they should be the same style is what I'm saying like this guy.

Oh okay. Yeah I'd assume both would be sprites anyway if they decided to go that direction. I'd hate it too if one was modern looking, and one was a sprite.

 

[FunAtParties]

Possible looks for Sprite Climbers

*Credit to whoever created these.