[POLL] Where do you think Ganondorf COULD be on the tier list?

[KaiserKyzer]

I know there's a few of these posts but the other ones don't put as much effort into it.

I've been playing Ganondorf for the past month or so straight and I've noticed that his move-set is actually very adaptable. While all of his moves are still slower than other characters, his moves have more ways to block out and punish play-styles than other characters. To expand on this;

PROS:

• Ganon's ground game is slow, and all of his moves but his jab, forward tilt, and down tilt have pretty big lag. This is a major disadvantage against characters like Fox and Diddy because of how little frame data they have; but, against characters who have a better air game than a ground game, his moves are still fast enough to punish bad decisions and keep ground control. Most air-based characters are floaty, and this gives Ganon plenty of time to set-up ahead of time.
• Ganon's air move-set is his fastest, but they're completely useless against air-based characters because of their superior frame-data. Against ground-based characters, though, his moves have a big enough hit-box and duration to help stuff quick approaches. Since most of Ganon's aerials are limb-based attacks, it makes his attacks slightly disjointed and hard to punish.
• He has a lot of hidden hitboxes in his moves, which makes him hard to deal with if you don't know he can do those things. He doesn't really have any moves where the hitbox ends prematurely, but instead, lasts longer than other characters instead.
• He's good at defending himself from hostile gimp attempts or aggressive edge-guarding. Trying to ledge-trump Ganon is also a bad idea, as his aerials kill at low percents near the edge of the stage.
• A lot of his actions can be cancelled into moves, making them unexpected.
• Basically, his move-set is effective against almost everybody.

CONS:

• He's slow and heavy. Against projectile characters with decent aerials, you really have to think about how to approach them without taking serious damage. Getting good with perfect shields and dodges helps.
• He's very linear if you don't know how to make his move-set effective. A problem with most Ganon's is that, they think they can just run-in like any other character and just get stocks. That doesn't work, at all. Ganon doesn't have the speed, and his moves are pretty easily dodged if not used unexpectedly.
• Basically, it takes a lot of practice to get good at Ganon. You can't just pick him up once in a while for the lulz and expect to do very good.

I'm open to anyone else's thoughts on the matter. Please don't meme / joke the poll.

Personally, I think Ganon could possibly rise up to being high D-tier. G is far too low, and he's not nearly as bad as the other characters in G tier; and he's honestly far more usable than characters in F or E tier. Not saying they're all trash, but they're either hard to use or just outright weak. Ganon's neither of these. My reasoning for D-tier is that he's just as usable and effective as the D-tier characters, and while his recovery is still a little bad, there's character's in D-tier with even worse recovery than Ganon. Their recoveries are either extremely linear [Duck Hunt] or easily punishable [Link]; meanwhile, Ganon can punish for aggressive edge-guarding or gimp attempts; those in D-tier really can't. Ganon is also very good at getting back-to-stage, as long as he isn't sent at a low angle. I believe Ganon's place on the current tier list is because of lack of understanding, rather than actually being bad. I feel like he was placed by a Falcon main who was told Ganon is basically a slower but more powerful Falcon, then tried him and found none of his typical combos working or being effective. That might sound a little pretentious, but that's how Ganon's placement feels. He's not as bad as his tier-list placement makes him look. ᵖˡᵘˢ ᶦ ᵘˢᵉᵈ ᵗᵒ ᵐᵃᶦⁿ ᶠᵃˡᶜᵒⁿ ᵃⁿᵈ ᶦ ᵗʰᵒᵘᵍʰᵗ ᵗʰᵃᵗ ʷᵃʸ

 

[iGNasty]

He is incredibly slow, but his moveset is very effective. Playing Ganondorf is challenging but like any heavy you just pick your spot, nothing like DK but i still think ganon is a beast.

 

[Litany]

Ganon is bottom tier without little doubt, simply because his strengths are far less effective against the top tiers. Having lots of power doesn't matter as much when a lot of opponents can literally drift faster than he can run and reset to the ledge. Ganon's scary, and has some passable top tier MUs, but there are too many important ones which realistically require titanic amounts of skill and guesswork. I'd argue that Ganon's toolkit is actually quite ineffective against some characters -- contrary to what you're saying.

 

[Hotcakes]

He's on the border between F tier and G tier for me. I think he's a lot better than Dedede and possibly better than Jr. He's worse than Zelda though. I don't know why she was voted second worst considering how strong her grab game is. He probably wins less than 5 matchups and loses to more than half of the cast. I really don't see him rising above low F tier.

 

[Nergal69]

I see him currently being better than everyone in F tier except for Pac-man and Bowser Jr., as those match-ups have seemed unwinnable since day one. I think Ganondorf players today are developing their speed a bit and pushing him to at least try to be fast in their combos and mix-ups but are still heavily reliant on reads. With all honesty, there's no way I can ever see him losing to Falco, Wii Fit Trainer, Doc or Dedede unless on FD. But in the end I don't see him pushing above F in any way, shape or form. I also don't see him having any match-ups where he wins or goes even with in B, A or S tier.

 

[Fearitself]

I personally think he is bottom tier. He's seems to have the slowest moves of all the heavyweights. Although his moves have good knockback and dmg he's just so slow with so many start-up frames on moves it gives him a minimal combo game. His lack of movement speed, fall speed, & weight make him get combo'ed pretty stinking hard. His recovery is also very linear so it's easy to punish. He also has lots of end lag on his moves making his moves really unsafe on shield or especially against any opponent with speed that can play around that.
I think in any smash game speed is just important and ganon's frame data all points to him being a very bad character. I know he has some survivability and his weight let's him benefit from rage more than most but I still don't think it's nearly enough to consider him anything but bottom tier.

 

[Z1GMA]

G - The current meta is poison for Ganon. Good flowcharts makes it so that reads doesn't really work, cuz they're disigned to be safe. And Ganon is a lot about reads.

 

[MERPIS]

Basically, his move-set is effective against almost everybody.

you can say this about any and every character

 

[Wiley]

My Ganon is high tier.
I think objectively, for the general public who haven’t put an insane amount of hours into him, he’s top of low tier or somewhere mid tier. I don’t at all think he’s bottom 2 like I’ve seen countless times. I think he should have a kill forward throw.

Noob vs noob:
he’s dangerous. The raw power can cheese vs another new player.

Intermediate vs intermediate:
he’s trash. Intermediate Ganons are sad business.

My Gan vs noob/intermediate opponent:
he’s godlike.

My Gan vs another heavy exp player...
he’s kinda food... depending on the matchup and how smart they feel like playing it. Like vs a sonic on FD just camping it’s not that fun and becomes a mental guessing game that really isn’t in our favor.

Basically, if you underestimate him, you will get obliterated. His moves actually stuff and demolish so much of the b&b meta. If opponents take advantage of his movement speed and play safe at every turn, they’ll win the majority of games with better probability. I don’t regret starting with him since 3ds for this generation.

 

[Darches]

He could be top tier, just triple his damage.