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Pokemon Red, Blue, and Yellow Virtual Console

ErenJager

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Possible Generation One Issues/ Points of Discussion




  • Gust, Sand Attack, Karate Chop, Bite were all Normal type attacks.
  • Magnemite & Magneton were pure Electric types.
  • When Pokemon gain a lot of experience they jump in levels, missing out of moves they would have learned.
  • Psychic-type Pokémon had virtually no match because their moves were resisted only by other Psychic types and their only weakness was to the Bug type, of which there were only three damaging moves: Leech Life, Pin Missile, and Twineedle. Additionally, most of the Pokémon that learned these moves were part Poison and therefore weak to Psychic moves. Ghost-type moves were also completely ineffective against Psychic types instead of being super-effective, due to what may be a programming bug.
  • The Special stat represented both Special Attack and Special Defense, meaning that a Pokémon with a high Special stat had an edge in battle. For example, Venusaur had a base Special stat of 100, used Grass-type (considered "Special") moves, and was weak to mostly Special types.
  • Critical hit ratios were based on a Pokémon's base speed, allowing faster Pokémon to deal more critical hits.
  • One-hit knockout moves were also based on speed, making them useless if the user was slower than the target.
  • The Bag had only 20 slots, and each stack of items (including key items) occupied one slot. This forced the player to constantly store obsolete key items, TMs, and HMs into the PC in order to make space for new ones.
  • Leech Seed and Toxic used the same damage counter, allowing Leech Seed to drain twice as much damage when a Pokémon was affected by both at the same time.
  • Due to a glitch, Focus Energy and Dire Hits cut the user's critical hit ratio by 75% instead of doubling it.
  • Using Agility or Swords Dance while paralyzed or burned, respectively, would negate the status impairments from those effects and then double the enhanced stat.
  • If Hyper Beam knocked out a Pokémon or destroyed a Substitute, the user would not need to recharge on the succeeding turn.
  • Selfdestruct and Explosion did not make the user faint if they destroyed a Substitute.
  • Although Rest removed status conditions, it would not alleviate the stat debuffs caused by a burn or paralysis.
  • Overusing stat increases would eventually cause the boosted stats to roll over to maximally decreased stats.
  • If a Bide user was hit with a status move before its attacking turn, the damage dealt would equal that of the last attack used against it.
  • If a Pokémon's HP was 255 or 511 (or any number multiple of 256) points below its maximum, HP recovery moves like Recover and Softboiled would fail. This is because the game only checks the low byte of the 16-bit value.
  • Critical hits would ignore stat increases from both parties rather than just the target.
  • Counter could be used in response to Guillotine or Horn Drill to instantly defeat an enemy Pokémon, even if the move hit the user's Substitute.
  • With the exception of Swift, every attack had at least a 1/256 chance of missing.
  • Wrap, Bind, Fire Spin, and Clamp immobilized the target for 2 to 5 turns as a side effect. If a Pokémon that used one of these moves switched out, the target would still be considered trapped during that turn.
  • Struggle was programmed with Normal-type offensive properties instead of being programmed to ignore type matchups, making it ineffective against Ghost types.
  • When a Pokémon was hit by a move that did not deal neutral damage, the message that displayed would reflect only the matchup against one of the target's types.
  • Waking up from sleep took a full turn.
  • Using Substitute while having 25% or less of one's maximum HP left would cause the user to faint.
  • As soon as Rage connected, the user would become disobedient and would be unable to use any other move until it fainted. When Rage was used, it only lost the initial 1PP, and if it missed, its accuracy dropped to 1/256.
  • Multi-hit moves dealt the same amount of damage for each hit in a turn, meaning that if the first hit was a critical hit, the other hits would be critical hits as well.
  • TM's have a one time use.
Do you think there will changes to the original meta?
Do you think glitches will be removed?
What issues do you feel need to be fixed?
What issues do you feel should stay as homage or flavor?
What about Missingno?
What about Mew?

What about amnesia Psyduck, and surfing Pikachu?
..and most importantly, which 6 Pokemon are you gonna use?
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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I think that many of the glitches that hindered gameplay that you stated above will be removed and fixed. However, I think that the old type matchups will still remain, and I would be shocked if they took out MissingNo. Not saying that they aren't going to do it, but I think that would be a really bad idea. Imagine how many people have heard the legends of MissingNo, but haven't been able to experience it firsthand (like me), but now they can! MissingNo would actually be a major selling point for the games, and I hope that they don't take it out!
 

ErenJager

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I think that many of the glitches that hindered gameplay that you stated above will be removed and fixed. However, I think that the old type matchups will still remain, and I would be shocked if they took out MissingNo. Not saying that they aren't going to do it, but I think that would be a really bad idea. Imagine how many people have heard the legends of MissingNo, but haven't been able to experience it firsthand (like me), but now they can! MissingNo would actually be a major selling point for the games, and I hope that they don't take it out!
I would also like missingno. to return, however take out the game breaking corruption and damage lol.
I would like most of the blatant issues fixed, but some feel like that was just how it was supposed to be... for example... i wouldn't mind these staying in:
  • If Hyper Beam knocked out a Pokémon or destroyed a Substitute, the user would not need to recharge on the succeeding turn.
  • Selfdestruct and Explosion did not make the user faint if they destroyed a Substitute.
The Psychic type match up might need that ghost problem fixed though.

What 6 Pokemon would you use?
 

Muskrat Catcher

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What 6 Pokemon would you use?
Hmmm, interesting, I never considered who I would choose if I made a team from gen I pokémon. I will be making this up on the spot.
1. Lapras, since its my favorite gen I pokémon and second favorite overall. Easy choice.
2. Charizard. Charmander was my first pokémon ever and having played the dragon a lot in smash, I have a lot of respect and nostalgia with the fire starter.
3. Pidgeot because nostalgia reasons again, and also just because it is really useful for HM moves.
4. Marowak because I love the ground type, bonemerang, its pokedex entries, and I made a Cubone costume for Halloween last year.
5. Machamp because it is just a really solid and strong pokémon. No special reason, its just a good pokémon!
6. Onix because while I may not be able to use Steelix, my 4th favorite pokémon, Onix is still pretty cool.
 
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ErenJager

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Mine:
:006::018::065::125::131::143:

Selfdestruct stab snorlax <3 one of the better things of gen1
 
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Arcadenik

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I missed out on the original games (first game was Gold) but I am definitely picking up Blue... and :052: will definitely be in my team.

By the way, Team Rocket Meowth is relevant again now that Pokemon Yellow is coming out. ;)

I am so excited over this announcement!! I really loved Pokemon Gold so I am sure I will love the original games.

Meowth for Smash!
 

ErenJager

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I missed out on the original games (first game was Gold) but I am definitely picking up Blue... and :052: will definitely be in my team.

By the way, Team Rocket Meowth is relevant again now that Pokemon Yellow is coming out. ;)

I am so excited over this announcement!! I really loved Pokemon Gold so I am sure I will love the original games.

Meowth for Smash!
You gotta share what your 6 party pokemon would be, you probably haven't decided yet, but you gotta have a skeleton frame/ idea.

Speaking of Yellow, I wonder how they will implement surfing Pikachu for the mini game... if at all.
 
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Do you think there will changes to the original meta?
Do you think glitches will be removed?
What issues do you feel need to be fixed?
What issues do you feel should stay as homage or flavor?
What about Missingno?
What about Mew?
What about amnesia Psyduck, and surfing Pikachu?
..and most importantly, which 6 Pokemon are you gonna use?
Maybe.
Definitely.
The "Ghost doesn't affect Psychic" issue.
None.
Well, it could stay, if it was harmless.
Mew should be available.
I guess they could be available too.
Charizard, Gengar (but since it needs two 3DSes, I probably have to settle with Haunter), Lapras (I'd use Gyarados but Lapras learns Ice Beam), Dugtrio (I might replace it with Rhydon later, due to Dugtrio's bad stats), Primeape, Electabuzz.
 
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ErenJager

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Maybe.
Definitely.
The "Ghost doesn't affect Psychic" issue.
None.
Well, it could stay, if it was harmless.
Mew should be available.
I guess they could be available too.
Charizard, Gengar (but since it needs two 3DSes, I probably have to settle with Haunter), Lapras (I'd use Gyarados but Lapras learns Ice Beam), Dugtrio (I might replace it with Rhydon later, due to Dugtrio's bad stats), Primeape, Electabuzz.
For me, I would personally want some of the "issues" to stay, because i'm not entirely sure if they're actually issues.
They may have been purposefully intended, and therefore changing them would be changing the original game to be more like it's predecessors.

For example:

  • Using Agility or Swords Dance while paralyzed or burned, respectively, would negate the status impairments from those effects and then double the enhanced stat.
  • If Hyper Beam knocked out a Pokémon or destroyed a Substitute, the user would not need to recharge on the succeeding turn.
  • Selfdestruct and Explosion did not make the user faint if they destroyed a Substitute.
  • Although Rest removed status conditions, it would not alleviate the stat debuffs caused by a burn or paralysis.

I'm hoping Nintendo picks and chooses which issues to fix.
 

Arcadenik

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You gotta share what your 6 party pokemon would be, you probably haven't decided yet, but you gotta have a skeleton frame/ idea.

Speaking of Yellow, I wonder how they will implement surfing Pikachu for the mini game... if at all.
Hmm... this is 1st gen... so no Dark, Steel, or Fairy... meaning Psychic is broken... and Bug is practically useless at this time... and Ground attacks can hurt Pokemon who have Levitate (since abilities doesn't exist yet)

:052: because it is my favorite Pokemon
:025: or :081: or :100: or :135: Electric
:001: or :043: or :069: Grass
:004: or :037: or :058: or :077: or :136: Fire
:007: or :060: or :116: or :118: or :134: Water
:016: or :021: or :041: Flying

Gosh, it's hard to decide what my team will be... I mean, I make up my team as I progress in the game. I just know for sure that Meowth will be in my team.
 
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Hmm... this is 1st gen... so no Dark, Steel, or Fairy... meaning Psychic is broken... and Bug is practically useless at this time... and Ground attacks can hurt Pokemon who have Levitate (since abilities doesn't exist yet)

:052: because it is my favorite Pokemon
:025: or :081: or :100: or :135: Electric
:001: or :043: or :069: Grass
:004: or :037: or :058: or :077: or :136: Fire
:007: or :060: or :116: or :118: or :134: Water
:016: or :021: or :041: Flying

Gosh, it's hard to decide what my team will be... I mean, I make up my team as I progress in the game. I just know for sure that Meowth will be in my team.
You can rule out Oddish and Growlithe, since they're exclusive to Red.
 
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Arcadenik

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You can rule out Oddish and Growlithe, since they're exclusive to Red.
Oh okay... I still want to eventually get all three versions though. ;)

EDIT: I am concerned about the Mew availability... it was the first distribution Pokemon and I am hoping that we would be able to get Mew in the game without distribution... but I get the feeling they are going to do that again anyway... distribution of Mew and Surfing Pikachu at least... but I am hoping for distribution of Team Rocket Meowth. :awesome:
 
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ErenJager

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Oh okay... I still want to eventually get all three versions though. ;)

EDIT: I am concerned about the Mew availability... it was the first distribution Pokemon and I am hoping that we would be able to get Mew in the game without distribution... but I get the feeling they are going to do that again anyway... distribution of Mew and Surfing Pikachu at least... but I am hoping for distribution of Team Rocket Meowth. :awesome:
It would be sweet if you could download Mew for free once you collect all 150.
 

Arcadenik

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It would be sweet if you could download Mew for free once you collect all 150.
This is how all distribution Pokemon should have been handled since day one. Reward the player for catching them all (complete the Pokedex) with Professor Oak giving you Mew.
 

Firus

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This is how all distribution Pokemon should have been handled since day one. Reward the player for catching them all (complete the Pokedex) with Professor Oak giving you Mew.
Completely agree with this. I've always found event Pokemon to be frustrating, particularly since, with a few exceptions, you don't even get to attempt to catch them yourself and they're just beamed in because...you happened to make it out to Toys R Us that day. Something like this would make it feel like an accomplishment to get them.

Sorry, this might be a little off-topic, but does anyone here know why Poke Center social was closed?
For exactly the reason I said in the thread: Kokonoe, the thread's creator, requested that it be closed.
 

CptJPuff

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I highly doubt something like this would happen, but it'd be pretty cool if Nintendo made some sort of magical program for one to transport his/her 1st gen Pokes to his/her 6th gen games.
 

ErenJager

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I highly doubt something like this would happen, but it'd be pretty cool if Nintendo made some sort of magical program for one to transport his/her 1st gen Pokes to his/her 6th gen games.
It would be pretty sweet to have a legal Snorlax with selfdestruct or a pidgeot with sky attack.


...Or hydro pump kabutops
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I do heavily wonder what's the point of making the 1st generation Pokemon titles be available as Virtual Console releases. Online battling never existed during the Game Boy and Game Boy Color eras, and Mewtwo's usage is completely non-existent for those games.

I know that it's for nostalgic purposes, but you pretty much have to stick with the 6th generation if you ever want to battle competitively.
 

ErenJager

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I do heavily wonder what's the point of making the 1st generation Pokemon titles be available as Virtual Console releases. Online battling never existed during the Game Boy and Game Boy Color eras, and Mewtwo's usage is completely non-existent for those games.

I know that it's for nostalgic purposes, but you pretty much have to stick with the 6th generation if you ever want to battle competitively.
I don't think the vc releases will have online battling.

My guess its a nostalgic cash cow.
Cheap and easy port, for the anniversary.
Something for the gen 1 people, and something for the newer generation to experience and put down after a day.
 
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Mario & Sonic Guy

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I don't think the vc releases will have online battling.

My guess its a nostalgic cash cow.
Cheap and easy port.
Something for the gen 1 people, and something for the newer generation to experience and put down after a day.
That was my thought too. Anyway, on the subject of things wrong with the 1st generation, there are a couple more things to take note of...
  1. You only have one chance to catch the legendaries. If you KO them, flee, or black out, you don't get any second chances.
  2. Whenever you face the legendaries, you actually have to put them to sleep before using any Poke Balls (excluding the Master Ball), since the game will say that you missed the Pokemon if they're not asleep. This issue does get resolved in the later generations though.
 

ErenJager

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That was my thought too. Anyway, on the subject of things wrong with the 1st generation, there are a couple more things to take note of...
  1. You only have one chance to catch the legendaries. If you KO them, flee, or black out, you don't get any second chances.
  2. Whenever you face the legendaries, you actually have to put them to sleep before using any Poke Balls (excluding the Master Ball), since the game will say that you missed the Pokemon if they're not asleep. This issue does get resolved in the later generations though.
It's called hard mode.
Lol.
I wouldnt mind those things staying.
 

N3ON

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It's kind of sad that outside of Smash this was the part of the Direct that had me most hyped.

But omg I can't wait, I had stopped expecting this would ever actually happen. This will be a 100% nostalgia-fueled purchase. ^_^

 

finalark

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I don't think the vc releases will have online battling.

My guess its a nostalgic cash cow.
Cheap and easy port, for the anniversary.
Something for the gen 1 people, and something for the newer generation to experience and put down after a day.
Pretty much this. I'm petty sure Nintendo is just going to upload the ROM untouched and let the fans go wild with it.

I have zero plans to buy RBY because I've played them all to death and IMO gen 1 is actually pretty boring once the nostalgia wears off.

But hey, if you're into it because you haven't played the originals since you were in the single digits or have never played them before go crazy.
 

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Pretty much this. I'm petty sure Nintendo is just going to upload the ROM untouched and let the fans go wild with it.

I have zero plans to buy RBY because I've played them all to death and IMO gen 1 is actually pretty boring once the nostalgia wears off.

But hey, if you're into it because you haven't played the originals since you were in the single digits or have never played them before go crazy.
I agree, the only thing I can see them doing is maybe fixing the ridiculous glitches, but even that I'm not sure about since it would be so easy for them to just slap the game up with no alterations. I'm not really familiar with the history of VC releases and how much they've fixed up glitches in the past, but that may shed light on whether or not that's at all likely to happen.

As for purchasing the game(s) myself, I'm pretty much in a similar place. The convenience level of having them on the DS would be cool, particularly since one day the internal battery on my cartridges will probably die and I know at some point or another I'll end up going back to them. But the early gens are much less fun to play than the later ones for me, and without speedup a la the features on Pokemon Stadium, they also feel painfully slow. They offer a great opportunity for some (I know one of my friends who's a huge Pokemon fan got into it in second gen and she never got the chance to play the originals), but I'd personally rather save my money up for Z, or whatever the hell the next main series game ends up being.
 

ErenJager

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I havent played the games since they came out, which I played religiously for a few years.

My games probably have that battery problem by now.

Idk I think me and the girlfriend will enjoy replaying th originals after like almost 20 years... Back when battling was simple... And everything is a sweeper to win.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Idk I think me and the girlfriend will enjoy replaying th originals after like almost 20 years... Back when battling was simple... And everything is a sweeper to win.
And let's not forget that speed was everything, as the slower Pokemon hardly have much of a chance if the type match-ups work against them; this was a huge problem for Pokemon like Golem, Rhydon, Omastar, and Kabutops.

Also, the 1-hit KO attacks would not have any effect if the 1-hit KO move user is slower than its target. Obviously, those kinds of moves were a lot less cheap during that time, since you had to either slow down or paralyze your opponent, or increase your own speed to have any chance of getting them to work. And even then, the constant 30% accuracy doesn't guarantee that you're going to land a hit.

But now, the 1-hit KO moves can pretty much work at any time (except for if the user's level is lower than that of the target), regardless of speed stats, making them extremely cheap for any CPU trainer. If you don't have a Pokemon with the Sturdy ability, you'll have to rely on lady luck if you expect to survive the 1-hit KO attack onslaughts.
 

ErenJager

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:006:
  • Flamethrower
  • Slash
  • Fire Blast
  • Fly

:018:
  • Fly
  • Sky Attack
  • Mirror Move
  • Quick Attack

:026:
  • Thunderbolt
  • Thunder
  • Slam
  • Thunder Wave (Surf if available)

:065:
  • Psychic
  • Recover
  • Disable
  • Psybeam

:131:
  • Surf
  • Ice Beam
  • Hydro Pump
  • Blizzard

:143:
  • Rest
  • Body Slam
  • Hyper Beam
  • Selfdestruct

:003:
  • Toxic
  • Leech Seed
  • Mega Drain
  • Solar Beam

:009:
  • Surf
  • Hydro Pump
  • Skull Bash
  • Earthquake
:149:
  • Blizzard
  • Thunder
  • Fire Blast
  • Hyper Beam
:143:
  • Psychic
  • Surf
  • Earthquake
  • Thunderbolt
 
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DrCoeloCephalo

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Personally, I look forward to using all my favorite rare and strong stuff that I can use for competitve purposes and make my playthrough a bit easier.
Also, I despise Charizard and just about any Fire-type that isn't Darmanitan, so it'll be nice to play in a meta where Charizard sucks again.

 

ErenJager

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Any confirmation on glitches still in or out?

Europe trailer confirmed gamblings back in all its glory.
 

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Personally, I look forward to using all my favorite rare and strong stuff that I can use for competitve purposes and make my playthrough a bit easier.
Also, I despise Charizard and just about any Fire-type that isn't Darmanitan, so it'll be nice to play in a meta where Charizard sucks again.
Charizard definitely wasn't all that great in the 1st generation with its base Attack and Special both set at 85. The Special Attack and Special Defense split in the 2nd generation at least made Charizard a bit better in the special attack department, but the split did leave a big blow to some other 1st generation Pokemon.

For some examples, Chansey loses its offensive potential, Gyarados has to become all physical, and Mewtwo can't take special attacks as well as it used to. At least the 2nd generation made Kangaskhan less vulnerable to special attacks.
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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Just watched the direct this morning. Looks like you will be able to transfer your pokemon from these games to pokemon sun and moon. Does this mean that we can finally get snorlax to legally run self destruct in the current gens? Oh boy! I'm excited!
 

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There is one dilemma that has to be kept in mind, however, and that's the fact that natures did not exist until the 3rd generation. Also, the training system was different in the first two generations as well.
 

ErenJager

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There is one dilemma that has to be kept in mind, however, and that's the fact that natures did not exist until the 3rd generation. Also, the training system was different in the first two generations as well.
I have a sneaking suspicion that Pokemon Sun & Moon may address this.

I'm hoping.
 

finalark

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There is one dilemma that has to be kept in mind, however, and that's the fact that natures did not exist until the 3rd generation. Also, the training system was different in the first two generations as well.
I'm assuming that in Sun and Moon your transferred Pokemon will get random natures.

Which will probably rub a lot of people the wrong way.
 

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I've got a squirtle, nidoran male, and metapod so far

There are certain pokemon I know I wanna get, certain ones that were powerful in gen 1 but for some reason I never used.

Since I don't know anyone I can trade with, I'm going to have to avoid Alakazam, Gengar, Machamp, and Golem. A shame.

For some random reason I thought Weedle and Caterpie were version exclusives.

Edit: Conversation with myself - I know Pikachu's in this forest. I eventually want to use Zapdos

What electric type should I use between then and now, pikachu?

Oh, I know! Ampharos.

...Oh right, gen 2
 
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Muskrat Catcher

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Since I don't know anyone I can trade with, I'm going to have to avoid Alakazam, Gengar, Machamp, and Golem. A shame.
Just because you can't get the final evolution of one of your favorite or strongest pokémon doesn't make them unusable! In Fire Red, I used a Machoke throughout my entire adventure, even using him against the Pokémon league, and he performed just fine. Also in White, I used a Boldore on my team until like the 7th gym when I finally found someone to trade with, and that Pokémon was EASILY the MVP on my team when it came to taking down tough opponents (the rock blast RNG was on my side for once!).

If ya like a Pokémon, catch it! Kadabra, Haunter, Machoke, and Graveler are all decent choices already, so don't count them out!

Edit: All right Onix! Now I just need to get a metal coat and talk to my friend and. . .

...Oh right, gen 2
 
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