Pokémon Trainer: Analyzing a powerful concept

[chaostails7]

Hey all. As I'm way too hype for this game and have to let off some excitement lest I explode, I thought I'd write up some thoughts I had and see what you all thought about them. Caution - this is a long post, so buckle in for the ride.

First, let me define what I mean by PT's "character concept." This is what I'm defining Pokémon Trainer's concept as:

A character that, though a switching mechanic, encompasses three different characters with different playstyles and different, complementary strengths and weaknesses in the categories of weight, recovery, killing power and neutral presence.

My thesis is this: regardless of the specific characters involved, as long as one specific move is good, a character with the concept of Ultimate's Pokémon Trainer will always be high tier or better.

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Sounds tough to prove, huh? Well, I'm going to do my best. To do that, though, let's get the obvious argument out of the way and start back with the previous iteration of PT in Brawl. After all, PT sucked back then, right?

Well, let's examine WHY he sucked. The commonly agreed upon reasons are as follows:

1) Stamina
2) Pokémon switch is slow, only works while grounded, and is usually hard punishable
3) Ivysaur blows (mostly because of his tether and weakness to fire)

I would like to argue that this list is too broad. In fact, only the second of these actually matters. Yes, I am arguing that the move that singlehandedly determined PT's tier placement was Pokémon Switch.

Why can I say this with such confidence? Well, think about it.

1) Stamina hardly matters if you can freely switch between characters. Any disadvantage state you find yourself in is a free switch, or even double switch, while you're hanging out offstage. You can also find some room to breathe when you knock an opponent off yourself, or too high in the air to juggle immediately. An attentive PT would have no reason to spend any time with a tired Pokémon on the field.

3) Even Ivysaur has situations in which she was usable and useful. Onstage and out of range, she could throw leaves at her opponent and abuse her good aerials when they approached. Having a bad character on the stage for a short period to refresh switch would be an annoyance, but ultimately, not a huge pitfall for the character, even in matchups that make deadly use of fire (looking at you, Luigi). And a terrible recovery doesn't matter at all when a solid one is just a switch away.

Yes, with Squirtle as a high tier and Charizard to patch weaknesses, a usable switch in Brawl was literally all PT needed to be viable.

Now, let's move on to a hypothetical character in Ultimate. Note: for the purposes of this argument, I'm going to disregard any knowledge we have about the existing PT (excluding the facts we know about switch).

To continue, I'm going to make the following assumptions, then argue while being as as pessimistic as is reasonable.

1) Sakurai is paying attention to competitive balance and is decent at it
2) For all reasonable variations in character quality, a high disparity in character quality between the three Pokémon benefits PT

Because of 1, let us assume that the three Pokémon average out to lower mid tier between the three of them - slightly below average. Following that assumption, because of 2, let's assume that they are all roughly on par with each other at lower mid tier.

Now recall back to my original definition of PT's character concept:

A character that, though a switching mechanic, encompasses three different characters with different playstyles and different, complementary strengths and weaknesses in the categories of weight, recovery, killing power and neutral presence.

Then given what we know so far, and given how tiers have balanced out in the past, what do we know about this hypothetical character?

1) One of them should have at least a mid-tier neutral
2) One of them should be GOOD at killing - there are many heavyweight powerhouses below mid tier, after all
3) One of them should have a good recovery - again, even those lower than mid tier often have a good recovery
4) They have varying weights, and so can narrow or eliminate combo percentages for combo-based characters
5) They have a free extra airdodge to improve their possibly lacking disadvantage state
6) They have a ton of versatility - likely being the most versatile character in the game. This means they have some ability to adapt to and counterpick their opponent, even if their options are comparatively weak

What does all of this add up to at top level play when compared against another high tier? A character with a below-average neutral, but good killing power, great survivability, many tricks up their sleeve, with an immense learning curve. You could be forgiven for thinking I was describing Ryu just then (top tier), or maybe even Greninja (high tier). Even factoring in that switches cannot be perfect and that the wrong pokemon will sometimes get in the way of where you want to go, I think it safe to call a character like that at least high tier - even with their lower mid-tier components.

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Up until now, I've been ignoring the information we've gotten on Ultimate so far. But we DO have footage, and what we've seen is a lot more encouraging than my pessimistic assumptions from before. For one, the Pokémon don't seem to all be at the same level of power. The weakest one, Charizard, still has significant strengths that stand out - his killing power and advantage state are both very strong, carrying along from Smash 4 and even improved with Ultimate, along with his recovery being top notch. And the stronger two, Squirtle and Ivysaur, look to be at least mid tier if I'm being overly pessimistic, but probably upper-mid tier at the least. With clearly defined weaknesses and strengths that compensate for those of the other two, a seamlessly played PT will be able to have a strong neutral, a strong killing game, and a strong disadvantage with the help of Squirtle's weight and airspeed, avoiding combo %s and a free extra air dodge. And I couldn't be more excited for it.

I can't say with full confidence that Pokémon Trainer will be top tier. There exist other powerful concepts in Ultimate, like a certain lightning fast swordsman with high range, good recovery, and solid kill options, or everyone's favorite combo witch. But I CAN say with confidence that PT will be a viable tournament choice, and more importantly, hella fun to play.

 

[THE 6r]

Hence why I'm hype to have PT back.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I've always loved PT's gimmick, so I'm glad that it is now being seen in a good light. Man that fact that we can even have this discussion about PT being top tier (let alone viable) is amazing to me.

I do find your point about Brawl PT's weakness interesting and I agree to an extent but I also feel even if Pt has a good switch and fatigue, it brings him down as a character simply by the fact that he is pressured into options that might not be favorable. That means by the fact of having stamina, the opponent can read the switch and punish it. Even if switch is naturally safe, by the nature of it being readable makes it less safe and potentially a bad option in certain circumstances.

 

[chaostails7]

You're right - a small enough stamina timer wouldn't be totally negligible. You could easily find a situation where you'd want to stay with the same mon for more than the stamina timer would allow - notably against a really campy opponent who keeps out of close range and shoots for a timeout. I still think that PT should be able to find safe windows to switch, but that doesn't mean you're not giving up follow-up opportunities or stage control to do it.

 

[Blade of Evil's Bane]

It might need more analysis but i've been wondering if we'll see combos including different Pokemon e.g. up throw with followed by UpB with

We might need to analyse footage to see if the 'switching lag' could afford the player a window where combos are possible in other terms:

if the switching lag is lesser than the time an opponent is helpless due to an attack, there's a window for combos. That would open a huge range of possibilities such as starting a combo with keep it going with and finishing it with

 

[Spinosaurus]

Switching is like 40 frames or so, it's a lot slower than you think. Wouldn't expect combos.

 

[chaostails7]

Switching is like 40 frames or so, it's a lot slower than you think. Wouldn't expect combos.

Yeah, unfortunately. The door's still open for 50/50s involving attacking right away or switching, then attacking, but that's the most we're going to get.

Actually, 38 frames is pretty reactable, so it's doubtful we'll even get that.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

PT may not have switch combos, but you best believe he'll have some hype switch follow ups in doubles. Honestly I am excited to see how PT does in doubles overall.

 

[Frizz]

I've always loved PT's gimmick, so I'm glad that it is now being seen in a good light.

I feel the same way. You'd think that a prime representation of one of Nintendo's biggest and prominent franchises would be welcomed with open arms by the Smash community, but it's actually quite the polar opposite—almost everyone seems to be against the idea of Pokemon Trainer and would rather have their Pokemon be separate fighters. It's nice to know that there are other people out there who can appreciate PT's gimmick—their gimmick alone is what got me hyped for their return in Ultimate. I'm going to be using all 3 Pokemon as equally as I can.