Pokédex Entry: Diddy Kong

[T-block]

 

[CoonTail]

No and no.

Ivysaur can't keep Snake out and can't deal with Snake up close either. Diddy just overwhelms Ivysaur.

I gotta say T-block I agree with these not being matchups that Ivy is winning in but at the same point I don't find Ivy to really have terrible matchups here.

Vs. Snake Ivy has a good amount of options to keep snake out. I posted it all in the snake discussion thread but I dont really find Ivy to have a horror matchup with snake you just gotta use your tools correctly.

Vs. Diddy is where i truely beg to diff I think Ivy's matchup with diddy should not be far from 45:55 to 40:60. Ivy can space diddy real well along with use bananas rather effectivlely. Its not like diddy struggles against Ivy, but rather Ivy can give diddy a real run for his money especially off the stage.

I dont wanna argue matchups I just dont really think Ivy gets wrecked in these matchups.

 

[T-block]

Vs. Diddy is where i truely beg to diff I think Ivy's matchup with diddy should not be far from 45:55 to 40:60. Ivy can space diddy real well along with use bananas rather effectivlely. Its not like diddy struggles against Ivy, but rather Ivy can give diddy a real run for his money especially off the stage.

I dont wanna argue matchups I just dont really think Ivy gets wrecked in these matchups.

I agree Ivysaur has fun with Diddy off-stage, but a lot of characters do.

Ivysaur just...can't stay safe against Diddy. All of her ground moves leave her very vulnerable to banana tosses and the follow-up combos, and she doesn't have the aerial mobility to maneuver around bananas in the air. Diddy just has a massive mobility advantage in general. I disagree that Ivysaur uses bananas effectively. She has limited glide toss options and is more predictable with a banana than most characters are.

 

[CoonTail]

I agree Ivysaur has fun with Diddy off-stage, but a lot of characters do.

Ivysaur just...can't stay safe against Diddy. All of her ground moves leave her very vulnerable to banana tosses and the follow-up combos, and she doesn't have the aerial mobility to maneuver around bananas in the air. Diddy just has a massive mobility advantage in general. I disagree that Ivysaur uses bananas effectively. She has limited glide toss options and is more predictable with a banana than most characters are.

Well I see what your saying here but I still dont see it as the slaughter you make it out to be.....as far as aerial mobility goes I almost always space with b-air the air dodge when bananas are in the air to grab them. I find a lot of diddy's follow ups becomes slower to try and punish the air dodge.

As far as her with a banana goes....whenever I get a banana in hand I just keep control of it. I play back hold my banana and stick to the gameplan of trying to force diddy to come at me. I have landed plenty of bullet seeds and razor leaves due to diddy's persistence to get his banana back. Not mention the whole point of bananas is traps.....I play diddy further down my own tier list of characters and all the banana traps he can set up I take into account with Ivy. Playing diddy your helps give a large advantage to banana use especially when you have a glide toss and can follow up razor leaves with glide tossing bananas lol.
Not to mention last I heard you picked the lil banana flinging chimp up.....I deff think you can relate to what Im saying about using that to further your Ivy's banana game.

I understand what you saying about diddy outclassing Ivy in these situations, but I think your undercutting some of the key points Ivy has on diddy when you play properly.

 

[Tesh]

Ivysaur is like Ganondorf here. Yea it looks like he has cool stuff in this matchup, but it wont ever happen because Diddy is going to pressure you hard, you will fold and get gimped.

 

[CoonTail]

I really dont see that tesh....I've said it a million times, yes diddy is the stronger character here but this doesnt make this matchup suddenly a 7:3 i think its a 6:4 honestly

But bleh this is why I hate arguing matchups people just see the numbers not the info

 

[Steeler]

the info is that ivysaur doesn't have anything safe against a diddy kong with a banana.

 

[Tesh]

its not just that, its that bananas get ivy offstage easy and then....ur dead

 

[Ingoro]

People get overrun by diddy because he has two nanerz, you get nervous. Play more defensive, shield more. first naner comes, you stay shielded or get hit, second naner comes, bam there comes the dash/downsmash/frontsmash, you get overrun and the naners provide a solid safe game to diddy where it's hard to punish his attacking patterns.

However, if you hold one naner it's way less dangerous. A single naner isn't as threating as two naners. In my personal opinion this results into a more "relaxing" play for ivysaur If you hold one naner and sh razor leaf to hold distance, it beats peanuts and you got your eyes on that one naner the diddy still has.

 

[T-block]

Yeah IC, I play Diddy as much as I play PT. Obviously it's great because I know what Ivysaur can do with bananas. So trust me when I say Ivysaur is extremely limited with a banana when compared to Diddy. Yes, bananas help Ivysaur overall. However, when you look at what Diddy can do with them, and what Ivysaur can do with them, it's clear that "Ivysaur can use bananas" is not a reason to think Ivysaur can do well in this matchup. Squirtle on the other hand... =)

 

[Tesh]

How early does glide toss to upsmash kill diddy kong with DI? 50?

 

[Ingoro]

I like to abuse side b with squirtle when i see two nanerz incoming.

 

[T-block]

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=261281

OH MY GOD IT CAME IN HANDY <3

Looks like around 58-68% once you factor in the banana hit. I'm pretty sure it doesn't combo from the banana toss though, even if Diddy is on the ground when he's hit.

 

[CoonTail]

Wow that is really handy T-block i almost completely forgot about that!!!

But hey T-block I wasn't trying to harass you with the fact that you play diddy to know the matchup.
Let me rephrase what I was attempting to say earlier I put to much emphasis on Ivy having options vs. diddy when I should have been saying what I intended. I think this matchup is a 6:4 tbh when characters like marth and MK demonstrate what a 7:3 against Ivy is with getting her offstage with no problem then I do not see diddy being as horrid of a matchup for Ivy. Yes diddy is rough but not MK marth rough, so since Ivy does have A FEW options to correct myself from before.....I do not see a 7:3 here.

Not to mention didn't luis post a video of him vs. player 1 for us to analyze and help aid is in discussing diddy.

 

[Geenareeno]

This one. Good stuff in here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s5HjC05Qqq8

 

[CoonTail]

Ok guys I will be compiling all the info into this thread from the social that we just discussed.

 

[Myollnir]

Nice. I wish the MU threads were active :/

 

[CoonTail]

They will be soon Myo, I just have to move over the info tonight. Since we have more active members there should definitely be more activity in these threads.

Ok guys as I promised I will be moving our info from the social thread into the MU thread so I apologize in advance for the double or possibly triple post.

 

[CoonTail]

First batch

Good job Bomber

Btw, I went to a smashfest yesterday, and I struggle a bit against Diddy. Do you have any advices on the Diddy MU? Also, I didn't know that we could cancel our WaterGun charge into a GT (like Diddy Kong with his Bneutral) , I discovered it during a match.

I also struggled against a Diddy player.

Something I found interesting is that if you can predict a MK using Mach Tornado, rock smash will win every time. Also being highly situational, if you use Fsmash at the base of mach tornado with Cahrizard, you will also win. All in all, my theory is correct, mach tornado is weakest at its base.

45% damage :D ussually you can link it directly into an upsmash to which makes 65% in a blink of their eyes.
@myo there's matches of reflex vs ninjalink (diddy) which pretty much sums up the MU you should check those out.

I'm a bit late on this but I have used Diddy for a few days and am sure I am better than 99% of Diddys out there already, as well as having used PT for a week or two :I

Squirtle's air mobility is ridiculously gay to punish because when you think he's going to land on one spot, he seems to be able to fly or break the laws of physics and land elsewhere, so use that to avoid a trap when you have no jumps left, and I honestly wouldn't try using the bananas too much unless you have extensive experience with them because Squirtle lacks a really solid move to use out of a gt. For ivysaur, I'd recommend getting her the hell out ASAP because she just doesn't really have any tools to counter Diddy's bananas. For Charizard, it's hard to say, because a lot of his moves tend to hit only when the opponent is tall (granted the opponent is next to him and not on top) or fat, or both, but his grabs, Dtilt, and Ftilt are invaluable in the MU I:

That's the basic overview from Choco, though I'd go with Ingoro's suggestion in case you want to see how it's played by pros ;I

/totally not stalking socal players ichu:

Ivysaur has upsmash out of downward glide toss, its gdlk, just saying thats bulletseed to kill, if you can get it.



lol i just refreshed these boards for some reason like a response was gonna be here when i did it.

TBH i have so much fun squirtle vs. diddy that i would only use this option with Ivy if the Diddy was really aggressive, and gave me an easy opportunity to get a banana, same with Charizard, i use banana like diddy uses banana with threat of his side B. It basically goes like this, oh your gonna hold your shield so you dont get hit by banana, hold it too long and rock smash is gonna poke.

If the diddy knows what they are doing it is very easy to stop EVERYTHING from those two so I stick to squirtles, but these help get you there

I just hate the Diddy MU all together. Not only do I have little experience in it but I look at it from a realistic point of view: "Oh by the way kids, if you want to win, you gotta use squirtle, the other two pokemon are just crap and a waste of a stock. And don't forget kids, you have stamina on your pokemon. Have fun now kids. Huh Huh. "

Hell, it's like fighting with two hands tied behind your back. Once Squirtle is wasted, it's just so hard to stay in the game while you wait for Squirtle to recover.

 

[CoonTail]

Second batch

I hate playing charizard in that Mu, I even skip her and go with 2x squirtle and one time Ivy. With ivy I just try my hardest to keep razor leafing while controling one naner.

Why is everyone struggling so hard against Diddy with Zard, I mean Ivy I can understand but honestly any aggro Diddy < Rock Smash. This is no longer debatable because literally every move outside of Diddy's Side B and F-air lose to RockSmash Counter Attack. Hell even glide toss bananas set off RSCA which gives us another scenario to us RSCA in. Start using RSCA guys because there's no reason our Zards shouldn't be smashing chimps with rocks .

uhhh.... charizards r smash can be baited out if we are predicting them approaching us then its just banana punish, Charizard needs a banana in his hand for this match up to be viable while 2bananas are out. Also charizard has no safe landing options once hes hit upward. Maybe he has a better chance on BF or something but idk, squirtle all the way on this one for me.

It's because if Diddy has a banana in his hand, we can't do anything. A Diddy playing aggressively against Charizard is doing it severely wrong.

@Aposl
To quote myself I stated an overly aggro Diddy loses to RS and to clarify the only time you should commit to RS is if the diddy commits to throwing a banana, an aerial that is not f-air, and mainly his dash attack. RS really shouldn't be baited since the only time you should be looking to use it is after a commitment from Diddy since a frame 3 move gives us that luxury. Also the point was never to run Zard solo here all I am stating is he has really solid damage equal out against Diddy which can really help Zard shine in this MU, obviously Squirtle is the best Pokemon in this MU yet that is not the topic I started to discuss.

Every single time Diddy dash attacks to pick up banana's he can be punished with RSCA, I am not just pulling these things out of my @$$ since I now co-main Diddy/have been practicing against him A LOT. Yes we may have a hard time getting out of the air and being juggled but one overly committed option and Diddy can take up to 61% from RS -> U-smash. The ability to equal out damage in this matchup really will keep pressure on Diddy and any mistakes he makes.

In theory we could also sweetspot rocksmash a metaknight, follow an usmash after that and have a charged up fsmash to finish him off, It's just that simple but, how often does really that happen? it's just not a realistic to look at things like that. A proper diddy is going to camp the sh*t out of charizard and will not even bother approaching let alone letting you land on the ground.

Ok well if you want to take my point and theorycraft it to all hell then yes, but in reality it is not that difficult to punish commitments from Diddy with a frame 3 option. Yes normally RS is not frame 3 but the whole point is your bringing out RS as a form of a wall.

I really never have an issue doing this yet people always push this off like the timing is incredibly strict.....

Next TBQH I don't know what Diddy's have you under such a mindset, but Zard to most Diddy's will always be a combo bag. On top of that Diddy is a highly mobile character meaning he can run circles around Zard without much worry. Everytime I play Diddy it is not even close to a campfest due to the fact that 1 trip = quite a bit of damage for Zard.

I don't get why suddenly were acting as if Diddy is MK who is going to camp Zard until he is fatigued? Diddy is an innately aggro character and when fighting a Zard there is little need/worry to camp until they see what RS can do.



If he's camping the **** out of me then how is he going to put me in the air, I'm sorry Rog but this kinda contradicts itself. Not to mention unless your playing on FD(Which should be struck and banned immediately against Diddy) then Diddy really should not be able to keep you in the air forever since yet again B-reverse flamethrower/RS will help aid getting you to a platform.

 

[CoonTail]

Last of the info

Think Rog meant that Diddy will camp Charizard until he tries to do something and proceed to Glide toss Upthrow, something to that effect.

Diddys who hold on to their Bananas are scary.

rock smash is not going to save you against diddy x.x

good diddy's don't dash attack to pick up a banana unless it's actually his best option.

in fact, if your rock smash counter behaviour gets picked up on (and anyone who has fought a PT before should be looking to read rock smash habits in particular), full hop air dodge into double jump will probably allow diddy to infinite charizard on his descent if he rock smashes lol

Can't Diddy also use Side-B through Rock Smash? Or did was that just part of a smash nightmare I once had?

edit: when the hell did I make 3000 posts? .___.

yes diddy can do that, this is what charizard can do to diddy, block a banana throw with r-smash at the right timing, down smash a lot of diddy pick up options, wave bounce flame thrower to avoid landing on bananas (this can get f-aired though so be careful). Grab diddy behind his banana. Its all gimmicky and not that great, but some of this stuff should save you for a switch.

Ok well I will retract my statement than stating that RS > Diddy, I guess I was just over excited. I still will not retract the fact that RSCA has unbelieveable potential in the Diddy MU since it can stop so many of his options.

I am starting to see the Diddy MU makes stage choice very important since platforms can make or break the fight. I do remember there being a Diddy MU thread a bit ago I am going to try and dig it up since solid input is currently being added.

@Bomber

The only people I have ever seen make Ivy look good in the Diddy MU is Reflex in his replay vs. P1
I wish I could see some vids of how T-block handles Diddy with Ivy.

I think I've mentioned this before but whenever I'm in that Mu I usually try to take control of one naner and razor leaf safely coz razor leaf > peanuts and if you feel the other naner is coming you just shield and punish with yours. You could even GT > usmash in certain occasions

 

[Bomber7]

I lol at all my rants making it into an MU discussion. I lol more at my post that was mainly about MK and the only thing pertaining to Diddy was me saying I struggled against one.

<3 you Coontail

 

[Myollnir]

Thanks CoonTail