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PM Turnips

gregWHO

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
38
I dunno in which version this started but Peach's turnips are different in this game compared to Melee.

I've noticed if I hit someone offstage with a turnip, sometimes they can DI it in such a way where it hits them back TOWARDS the stage and helps their recovery. Has anyone else experienced this? I don't believe it ever happened in Melee.

Also, does anyone have any turnip tips, a guide or general turnip advice? Thanks!
 

dg-pilz-e

Smash Cadet
Joined
Sep 25, 2014
Messages
55
i can't confirm the DI to the stage to aid recovery, But i mean if you can read that then you may have time to go and nair them, pending where you are

And as far as using turnips or a guide, the melee peach guide should suffice to teach you the basics as it all translates into PM, There are a few things though like turnips don't hit each other anymore. so you can't throw them up constantly and have them bounce around on eachother.

I can go into depth a little later, I'm at work and don't have time to type what all i do with turnips now ;(
 

gregWHO

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
38
i can't confirm the DI to the stage to aid recovery, But i mean if you can read that then you may have time to go and nair them, pending where you are

And as far as using turnips or a guide, the melee peach guide should suffice to teach you the basics as it all translates into PM, There are a few things though like turnips don't hit each other anymore. so you can't throw them up constantly and have them bounce around on eachother.

I can go into depth a little later, I'm at work and don't have time to type what all i do with turnips now ;(
Well I was wondering if anyone had any unique ways they've been using turnips even if they're MU-dependent or niche situations. I'd love to hear how everyone is using GT/AGT. I'm incorporating more GT and AGT but so far they seem more suited at spacing defensively. So yeah, I'm really curious about everyone's experiences with turnips in the PM environment. Their priority seems to be toned down overall as many characters' recoveries eat right through them including characters that didn't in Melee (e.g. Bowser, DK, GnW). Item play and counterplay is so much more prominent in PM which overall hurts Peach I believe.

As for that turnip DI, I can't really read it? It happens so rarely enough that it's not expected, but just enough that it's an issue. People have tried DIing/SDIing them towards the stage to no avail and much of it time it happens on accident. Maybe I'm just spoiled from how consistent Melee turnips were.

If you're talking about Quetzalcoatl's Extensive Turnip Guide, yeah it's been there forever and a day. It's very useful, but I was looking for opinions on what's translated over well to PM and what hasn't.

I'd love to hear anything at all really... it's really nice when I see activity on this board and don't have to stalk the Melee Peach boards as much. lol
 
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NYCal

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 26, 2015
Messages
15
Location
NYC
I use turnips for spacing, mostly, and edgeguarding sometimes. I don't know why, but I'm feeling that she's getting outmatched in PM by much of the class :/

Inspire me, fellow peaches :(
 

Manaconda

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
199
Glide tossing:

With a turnip in hand and in shield, if you're suffering some shield pressure from other characters, a glide toss while moving away can get them off your back (but taking into account how far they usually get hit there isn't enough hitstun to get a conversion). The effectiveness really depends on which way you face; rolling in the direction you face means you get more distance and it's safer, but rolling in the opposite direction gets your glide toss less distance, which sucks.

If your opponent likes to approach from vertically above you, you can GT while throwing the turnip upwards. This is kind of a gimmick though and once they're onto it you can get punished pretty hard.

The only other instance I've used GT in is spacing and approaching. On one hand it's not that great for approaching because jump + throw keeps your aerial momentum while a GT does not. On the other hand it's good if being in the air is disadvantageous against your opponent. Overall, unless I'm missing something, GT is kind of overrated in PM. I might be wrong because I can't access my game right now but I believe it's shorter? Maybe I should look at the Brawl Peach boards or ask someone who probably extensively used it. @Praxis probably knows enough about it in both games to provide his opinion on it.

Aerial glide tossing:

This is a better I think. Vertical AGT still goes very far. Sometimes against other floaties, I'll do upthrow and pluck a turnip, and then it becomes a game of me keeping them up in the air and them coming back down. If they're not really doing anything, AGT up or up-diagonally with a turnip leading the way and try to follow up with an aerial. After your opponent knows you can do this, you can mix this up with trying to bait out aerials and airdodges. Just know that a lot of characters can airdodge and get to the ground faster than Peach can, lol.

Horizontally it depends. AGT in the opposite direction is very noticeable and can be used to reverse your momentum, more easily whiff punish, etc. AGT in the direction you face you already move in sucks, and you won't really notice a difference between that and just moving in that direction, honestly. I understand that burst movement is kind of undesirable, but I wish horizontal AGT was better.

---

Against one of my training partners (a Marth), one of the only useful ways to use a turnip is to have it lead your way and attack based on what they do. He's so used to fighting me that he now AGTs turnips to aid his recovery if I throw them offstage (I don't anymore), he just wavedashes to catch them on the ground, or airdodge to catch --> AGT to throw it back to me. In Melee he just loses aerial options but in PM he can actually do stuff lol.

Now that a lot of recoveries of the previous lower cast members don't suck as much, yeah it's harder to edgeguard with them. I prefer to just grab ledge and do ledge stuff or to go out and aerial them and things like that.

I can't remember having turnips deflect my opponents towards the stage before, but I can't deny it's never happened. I don't really know what to do about that other than to tell you it sucks lol.
 
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gregWHO

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jul 31, 2007
Messages
38
Aerial glide tossing:

This is a better I think. Vertical AGT still goes very far. Sometimes against other floaties, I'll do upthrow and pluck a turnip, and then it becomes a game of me keeping them up in the air and them coming back down. If they're not really doing anything, AGT up or up-diagonally with a turnip leading the way and try to follow up with an aerial. After your opponent knows you can do this, you can mix this up with trying to bait out aerials and airdodges. Just know that a lot of characters can airdodge and get to the ground faster than Peach can, lol.

Horizontally it depends. AGT in the opposite direction is very noticeable and can be used to reverse your momentum, more easily whiff punish, etc. AGT in the direction you face sucks, and you won't really notice a difference between that and just moving in that direction, honestly. I understand that burst movement is kind of undesirable, but I wish horizontal AGT was better.
Yeah, I used to play Peach in Brawl and Melee as well... kinda like Silly Kyle but much much crappier. lol

I'll have to try some of that AGT stuff. One time I was able to follow up an upsmash with a jump, DJ, glide toss up while throwing down into an uair kill. It was so amazingly slow and telegraphed. lol

Her GT distances are nothing compared to Brawl's but then again no wavedashing. I believe AGT is overrated too at least in Peach's implementation. The only reliable thing I can do is AGT backwards, throw forwards to spam better. I think her turnip game is worse than Melee's and only slightly better than Brawl's mostly due to the Brawl physics engine. She is already such a SLOW movement, defensive character. With her overall immobility on the ground and air, I feel like she could use better GT distances or... something to keep up with all the new cast members in PM. Her bad MUs in Melee already transfer over (e.g. Falcon, Marth, Fox) and she has nothing significant to help her with the rest of the cast.

With itemplay so dominant in PM, everyone is so used to catching/GT/AGT nowadays. I play against many people who use their unused jump button as shield and it makes powershielding so much easier as if turnips were hard to powershield or grab in the first place. I have a very hard time in my region with Marths because they all powershield my turnips or catch them, especially offstage. I feel like such a huge part of the MU is taken away from me.

On another note, I wish we had an aerial down B... even just for funsies, doesn't even have to useful in competitive play. Anything to show that PMDT is willing to pay more attention, have fun and be creative with Peach instead of just tweaking her up B over and over. -.-
 
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ShadowKing

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 1, 2015
Messages
676
Location
Germany
NNID
TheShadowKing24
3DS FC
4785-7167-2769
Turnips are good spaceing, edgeguarding and Distraction.Spaceing is for if your in a bad situation edgeguarding is used when you throw them off stage and Distraction is so the focus on the turnip to see when your going to use it (that's how I use her turnips)
 

RomeDogg

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 6, 2007
Messages
437
Location
Spearfish, SD
So the only difference between Melee turnips and Project M turnips is that they collide with each other in Melee? Is there any other differences between the two?
 

Dad?!?

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
21
I dunno in which version this started but Peach's turnips are different in this game compared to Melee.

I've noticed if I hit someone offstage with a turnip, sometimes they can DI it in such a way where it hits them back TOWARDS the stage and helps their recovery. Has anyone else experienced this? I don't believe it ever happened in Melee.

Also, does anyone have any turnip tips, a guide or general turnip advice? Thanks!
Yeah, sometimes turnips definitely hit your opponent in the opposite direction you would expect. I've heard people claim that it happens more frequently on smaller characters moving towards the turnip--so maybe the turnip moves too far through their hurtbox before the collision detection happens. In any case, it doesn't seem like disadvantageous to me; sometimes I can react and get a hit confirm off of it, and it rarely helps their recovery much.

Personally, I don't use the Brawl item options much; AGT up can make up for Peach's lack of vertical mobility a bit, for example by getting you to a top platform that takes forever to double jump to. I've also been experimenting with AGTing up into a high float between stocks.

GTing out of shield pressure as Manaconda mentioned sounds potentially useful--I'll have to try that out.
 

Cia

das kwl
Joined
Feb 18, 2007
Messages
8,231
Location
Top of the Tier List
While I think Peach is in a GREAT spot in PM right now, I hate her turnips so much. I have no idea what causes the gravity turnip effect, so it screws me up more often than it helps. I've gotten in the habit of preparing for it just in case (pretty much the same way you would prepare for Luigi misfire) but it would be better if the knockback direction was just consistent.
 

Manaconda

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jun 13, 2015
Messages
199
Has this ever happened to you guys?

I find this really easy to do against Peach's turnips, but recently I've noticed that Diddy's peanuts can be used for this as well because even though they move faster they aren't too hard to react to either. Banana's and Gyro's go very fast, but they have their own problems controlling space when they sit on stage. I really don't like the glide tossing mechanic, lol, especially in neutral when Peach is too slow to punish (catch --> AGT back), even against characters with bad frame data on their throws like Marth.

tl dr; Turnips are bad imo, but I think items suck in this game in general. But yeah, I really think Peach is in a nice spot in this game, with the exception of veggies.
 
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Dad?!?

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jul 4, 2014
Messages
21
Has this ever happened to you guys?

I find this really easy to do against Peach's turnips, but recently I've noticed that Diddy's peanuts can be used for this as well because even though they move faster they aren't too hard to react to either. Banana's and Gyro's go very fast, but they have their own problems controlling space when they sit on stage. I really don't like the glide tossing mechanic, lol, especially in neutral when Peach is too slow to punish (catch --> AGT back), even against characters with bad frame data on their throws like Marth.

tl dr; Turnips are bad imo, but I think items suck in this game in general. But yeah, I really think Peach is in a nice spot in this game, with the exception of veggies.
Yeah, throwing turnips offstage to edgeguard kind of sucks against people that are good with items. But I think they're much harder to react to in neutral, especially if you throw them unpredictably. Also, if you go offstage a bit before throwing them and mix that up by sometimes going offstage to aerial with a turnip in hand, they become much harder to deal with.
 
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