Krysco
Aeon Hero
It's been over a year since I initially made a thread on this topic in the Roy boards specifically for Roy's down throw and back throw and almost a year since I last updated the thread. What the thread showed was percents where Roy's down throw and back throw would force characters onto Battlefield's lower platforms. I tested every character without di and only a portion of the cast with di before I stopped as my interest in the game and labbing dwindled.
My means of testing was by going to training and using 2 controllers, one to make Roy grab and throw and the other to di and jump if di'ing upwards to see percents where characters could avoid the platform. If the character couldn't avoid the platform, the only options they had were to tech in place, tech roll or miss a tech and all of these options could be punished by Roy. I was planning on further testing this in Smash mode to see how much rage and the 1.05 freshness bonus affected this. I was also planning on testing this on Dreamland 64, Smashville and possibly Town & City and Lylat Cruise (and Duck Hunt before it got banned).
While my personal interest in labbing this has pretty much disappeared, I still consider it something worth looking at as it can create and extend combos and potentially lead to kill 'confirms' that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
I'll show what work I did do for Roy's down throw as an example since back throw proved to be of no help once di was accounted for:
"
| Character | DI Away | DI Up and Towards
| Mario | 41% | 47%
| Luigi | 30% | 29%
| Peach | 25% | 22%
| Bowser | 42% | 37%
| Yoshi | 34% | 32%
| Rosalina | 23% | 24%
| Bowser Jr. | 48% | 60%
| Wario | 48% | 58%
| Donkey Kong | 49% | 64%
| Diddy Kong | 51% | 63%
| Mr. Game & Watch | 26% | 24%
| Little Mac | 36% | 64%
| Link | 48% | 56%
| Zelda | 30% | 34%
| Sheik | 44% | 44%
| Ganondorf | 52% | 60%
| Toon Link | 31% | 30%
| Samus | 35% | 34%
| Zero Suit Samus | 46% | 50%
| Pit | 39% | 46%
| Palutena | 35% | 32%
| Marth | 35% | 51%
| Ike | 49% | 60%
| Robin | 41% | 46%
| Duck Hunt | 36% | 55%
| Kirby | 24% | 26%
| King Dedede | 50% | 91%
| Meta Knight | 45% | 50%
| Fox | 52% | 55%
| Falco | 50% | 57%
| Pikachu | 39% | 44%
| Charizard | 40% | 35%
| Lucario | 43% | 62%
| Jigglypuff | 14% | 10%
| Greninja | 46% | 45%
| R.O.B. | 46% | 57%
For the DI testings, the percent under DI away is the highest percent the character can avoid the platform by di'ing away while the percent under up and towards is the lowest percent di'ing up and towards lets them jump. This means that they are forced into a tech scenario regardless of di if their percent is above that of di down and below that of di up and away. For example, Mario is forced into a tech scenario from 42-46% but Luigi is never forced into a tech scenario."
The bit in quotes was all ripped straight from the thread I made back on the Roy boards: https://smashboards.com/threads/roy-bthrow-dthrow-platform-frame-traps.440987/
I personally focused on Roy and was potentially planning on looking at options for Robin and Mewtwo as well since those are my best characters but off the top of my head, moves to look at in general for the top tiers would be
Dtilt, Utilt, Ftilt 3(?), Heel Slide Kick, Dthrow, Uthrow(?), Uair, Usmash, Bthrow(?), Dash attack(?)
Dtilt, Uthrow(?), Dthrow(?) Uair, Dair, Fair(?), Limit Blade Beam(?), Blade Beam(?), Usmash, Cross Slash(?)
Utilt, Uair, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Nair, Fthrow(?), Dash attack(?), Usmash(?), Jab(?)
Utilt, Dtilt, Fox Phantasm, Jab(?), Dash attack, Fair, Uair, Dair, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Fire Fox(?), Usmash
Utilt, Dtilt, Fair, Dash attack(?), Uthrow(?), Uair, Dthrow, Dair(?), Usmash
Fthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Utilt, Usmash, Jab(?), Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Uair, Dair, Dancing Blade(?)
Dtilt, Dthrow, Uthrow, Uair, Dsmash(?), Usmash(?), Confusion, Dash attack(?), Nair (?), Dair, Jab(?), Fair(?)
Utilt, Dthrow(?), Uair(?), Dash attack, Fthrow, Bthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Usmash(?), Fair(?), Jab(?)
Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Dash attack(?), Strong jab(?), Strong Utilt, Usmash, Fthrow, Bthrow, Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, Fair, Dair, Light Ftilt, Strong Ftilt(?), Shakunetsu Hadoken(?), Uair, Shoryuken(?)
Ftilt, Utilt, Dtilt, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Needle Storm, Uair, Fair (?), Dash attack, Burst Grenade, Dair(?), Bair(?), Fthrow(?), Bthrow(?)
Utilt(?), Fthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Usmash(?), Dash attack(?), Jab(?), Spin Dash(?), Homing Attack(?), Bthrow, Uair, Nair, Fair(?)
Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Dtilt, Dsmash, Uair, Nair(?), Bthrow(?), Dair (?), Dash attack(?), Plasma Whip(?), Jab (?), Utilt(?)
I'm sure this is known about, especially with Fox players given the constant mention of his 'vortex' but I'm not sure if research down to a percent has been done for stuff like this like what I did for Roy's dthrow. There's also the fact that many more moves could lead to these situations depending on where the opponent is when they're hit but the moves I listed seemed plausible for the idea on grounded opponents at least. There's also the major issue of labbing this generally requiring a partner to see how much di messes with these options. Stuff like this could possibly open up kill options for Sheik or perhaps lead to deadlier combos for lower tiered characters like...I don't know, Pikachu? Toon Link? Lucas? Kirby? Just a few characters that come to mind when giving the roster a quick glance.
Figured I'd make a thread about this matter to see if anyone has any combo ideas or kill confirms or something. After all, an opponent who's failed to tech can't tech spikes and many moves force characters to slip off platforms which can extend combos. As an example, I recall testing stuff with Falco a while back and I was able to get an opponent from 0-70 or 80% though there was no di and there was one or two points where the opponent could tech.
My means of testing was by going to training and using 2 controllers, one to make Roy grab and throw and the other to di and jump if di'ing upwards to see percents where characters could avoid the platform. If the character couldn't avoid the platform, the only options they had were to tech in place, tech roll or miss a tech and all of these options could be punished by Roy. I was planning on further testing this in Smash mode to see how much rage and the 1.05 freshness bonus affected this. I was also planning on testing this on Dreamland 64, Smashville and possibly Town & City and Lylat Cruise (and Duck Hunt before it got banned).
While my personal interest in labbing this has pretty much disappeared, I still consider it something worth looking at as it can create and extend combos and potentially lead to kill 'confirms' that otherwise wouldn't be possible.
I'll show what work I did do for Roy's down throw as an example since back throw proved to be of no help once di was accounted for:
"
| Character | DI Away | DI Up and Towards | Mario | 41% | 47% | Luigi | 30% | 29% | Peach | 25% | 22% | Bowser | 42% | 37% | Yoshi | 34% | 32% | Rosalina | 23% | 24% | Bowser Jr. | 48% | 60% | Wario | 48% | 58% | Donkey Kong | 49% | 64% | Diddy Kong | 51% | 63% | Mr. Game & Watch | 26% | 24% | Little Mac | 36% | 64% | Link | 48% | 56% | Zelda | 30% | 34% | Sheik | 44% | 44% | Ganondorf | 52% | 60% | Toon Link | 31% | 30% | Samus | 35% | 34% | Zero Suit Samus | 46% | 50% | Pit | 39% | 46% | Palutena | 35% | 32% | Marth | 35% | 51% | Ike | 49% | 60% | Robin | 41% | 46% | Duck Hunt | 36% | 55% | Kirby | 24% | 26% | King Dedede | 50% | 91% | Meta Knight | 45% | 50% | Fox | 52% | 55% | Falco | 50% | 57% | Pikachu | 39% | 44% | Charizard | 40% | 35% | Lucario | 43% | 62% | Jigglypuff | 14% | 10% | Greninja | 46% | 45% | R.O.B. | 46% | 57%The bit in quotes was all ripped straight from the thread I made back on the Roy boards: https://smashboards.com/threads/roy-bthrow-dthrow-platform-frame-traps.440987/
I personally focused on Roy and was potentially planning on looking at options for Robin and Mewtwo as well since those are my best characters but off the top of my head, moves to look at in general for the top tiers would be
Dtilt, Utilt, Ftilt 3(?), Heel Slide Kick, Dthrow, Uthrow(?), Uair, Usmash, Bthrow(?), Dash attack(?)Dtilt, Uthrow(?), Dthrow(?) Uair, Dair, Fair(?), Limit Blade Beam(?), Blade Beam(?), Usmash, Cross Slash(?)Utilt, Uair, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Nair, Fthrow(?), Dash attack(?), Usmash(?), Jab(?)Utilt, Dtilt, Fox Phantasm, Jab(?), Dash attack, Fair, Uair, Dair, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Fire Fox(?), UsmashUtilt, Dtilt, Fair, Dash attack(?), Uthrow(?), Uair, Dthrow, Dair(?), UsmashFthrow(?), Bthrow(?), Utilt, Usmash, Jab(?), Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Uair, Dair, Dancing Blade(?)Dtilt, Dthrow, Uthrow, Uair, Dsmash(?), Usmash(?), Confusion, Dash attack(?), Nair (?), Dair, Jab(?), Fair(?)Utilt, Dthrow(?), Uair(?), Dash attack, Fthrow, Bthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Usmash(?), Fair(?), Jab(?)Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Dash attack(?), Strong jab(?), Strong Utilt, Usmash, Fthrow, Bthrow, Tatsumaki Senpukyaku, Fair, Dair, Light Ftilt, Strong Ftilt(?), Shakunetsu Hadoken(?), Uair, Shoryuken(?)Ftilt, Utilt, Dtilt, Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Needle Storm, Uair, Fair (?), Dash attack, Burst Grenade, Dair(?), Bair(?), Fthrow(?), Bthrow(?)Utilt(?), Fthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Usmash(?), Dash attack(?), Jab(?), Spin Dash(?), Homing Attack(?), Bthrow, Uair, Nair, Fair(?)Dthrow(?), Uthrow(?), Dtilt, Dsmash, Uair, Nair(?), Bthrow(?), Dair (?), Dash attack(?), Plasma Whip(?), Jab (?), Utilt(?)I'm sure this is known about, especially with Fox players given the constant mention of his 'vortex' but I'm not sure if research down to a percent has been done for stuff like this like what I did for Roy's dthrow. There's also the fact that many more moves could lead to these situations depending on where the opponent is when they're hit but the moves I listed seemed plausible for the idea on grounded opponents at least. There's also the major issue of labbing this generally requiring a partner to see how much di messes with these options. Stuff like this could possibly open up kill options for Sheik or perhaps lead to deadlier combos for lower tiered characters like...I don't know, Pikachu? Toon Link? Lucas? Kirby? Just a few characters that come to mind when giving the roster a quick glance.
Figured I'd make a thread about this matter to see if anyone has any combo ideas or kill confirms or something. After all, an opponent who's failed to tech can't tech spikes and many moves force characters to slip off platforms which can extend combos. As an example, I recall testing stuff with Falco a while back and I was able to get an opponent from 0-70 or 80% though there was no di and there was one or two points where the opponent could tech.
