PK flash uses

[anas abou]

so generally whenever i discuss ness's neutral special (PK FLASH) i either get called a noob or ignorant for even trying to use such a unviable move.
so i made this thread to discuss ness's neutral special uses.
personally i generally use it to punish bad or slow recoveries by basically covering the ledge with the radius which instantly KO's them and i can actually do it pretty consistently against and sometimes even.
obviously its not that great (you probably have your own use for it) as it has a good chunk a lag and leaves defenseless for good time period **** it's probably bad but its still worth taking a good look at especially since its apparently faster in the new patch.

 

[ilysm]

I mean, I think PK Flash is using in pretty much one scenario as it's understood right now; if they're far away from the stage, but you know they're gonna make it back, and you don't really want to PKT1 them, then charge a PK Flash right at the edge. With good timing, it'll basically say to them, "Hey, you'd better not grab this ledge, friend". Then you can read their reaction to the limited options they have. Or scare them and hit them. Or scare them into SD'ing. I guess it's just a scary move. That's about it.


(also i saw fsann use an uncharged pk flash in a combo once but i feel like telling you to do that would be like telling a six-year-old to imbibe copious amounts of alcohol and then drive a pickup truck down the freeway it'd just be so irresponsible of me)

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

What Indigeau said.

It isn't that good Ness players don't use it, but that good Ness players use it just rarely enough that the opponent forgets the possibility. To put it another way, beginners will use it frequently, intermediate players will abandon the move altogether, and experts will start to mix it in again.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few.”
― Shunryu Suzuki

 

[anas abou]

What Indigeau said.

It isn't that good Ness players don't use it, but that good Ness players use it just rarely enough that the opponent forgets the possibility. To put it another way, beginners will use it frequently, intermediate players will abandon the move altogether, and experts will start to mix it in again.

"In the beginner's mind there are many possibilities, but in the expert's mind there are few.”
― Shunryu Suzuki

yeah weirdly enough the move's effectiveness has been somewhat boosted by not being used often giving it an unfamiliarity advantage as the the opponent might not know what the flying **** to do when its used kinda like how alot of really good players struggle against some low tier matchups cuz they didn't really spend enough time in the lab with it (more than likely they don't need that experience anyway)

I mean, I think PK Flash is using in pretty much one scenario as it's understood right now; if they're far away from the stage, but you know they're gonna make it back, and you don't really want to PKT1 them, then charge a PK Flash right at the edge. With good timing, it'll basically say to them, "Hey, you'd better not grab this ledge, friend". Then you can read their reaction to the limited options they have. Or scare them and hit them. Or scare them into SD'ing. I guess it's just a scary move. That's about it.

(also i saw fsann use an uncharged pk flash in a combo once but i feel like telling you to do that would be like telling a six-year-old to imbibe copious amounts of alcohol and then drive a pickup truck down the freeway it'd just be so irresponsible of me)

yeah but i also use a fully charged PK FLASH on broken shields to get the safe kill instead of back throw as it has more knockback from what i understand

also that last note made my minute

 

[Uffe]

This attack is far more situational than even PKT2. I feel this will less likely connect on Jigglypuff, Toon Link, and Samus. Maybe Peach and R.O.B. as well. Knocked high enough, Jigglypuff, Peach, and R.O.B. can fly back onto the stage. Toon Link and Samus both are floaty and have tethers, allowing them to sink below stage level and avoid PKFl. Sometimes I use it when I know it will connect. Other times I barely charge it, using it as a scare tactic, and then going off the stage to interrupt their recovery. Also, for anyone who doesn't know, a fully charged PKFl can break Kirby's Stone and kill him. I've done this and it was pretty satisfying.

 

[Metal B]

I don't play Ness, but like to play as Kirby sometimes. So if you encounter Ness and copy his Neutral-A, you start to think, what you should do with it. So i had the idea, that it could be used as an better Aerial-Up-A. If you launch somebody high enough, following him win the air and start charging PK Flash. So you try to threaten them on their way back and catch them after an air-doge.
Can't remember the success rate, but what is the opinion on this tactic for the attack?

 

[ilysm]

Well, the poor maneuverability of the projectile combined with the fact that it has a ton of end lag and puts you into special-fall afterwards makes that strategy a pretty situational one. Not saying that it couldn't work, but I wouldn't rely on it consistently.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm sorry guys, but simply put, PK Flash is still really bad at a high level. Mostly because of how ledge snapping works in this game, the safest option is to charge right into it and just grab the ledge ASAP. The low active frames and the fact that it does not drop low enough below the ledge prevent it form being useful even as an edgeguard. The opponent should have a lot of options for getting to that ledge too since in order to charge PK Flash, you weren't hindering their path back to the stage.

The only situation it can really be useful as an edgeguard is if you somehow knocked the majority of Jigglypuff's jumps off and she's forced to use all of her recovery might to just make it back. Since her DJs don't have auto sweetspotting, and she has no UpB recovery, she might be vulnerable. But fat chance you're gonna find a Jiggs that lets that actually happen to them somehow. Shulk doesn't auto snap to ledges either, but he's got jump mode.

Don't even think about using it as an uair replacement. Uair is stronger, faster, AND much easier to hit with.

To give credit where it is due though, PK Flash does break shields really well. But what opponent will just let you charge it then run in and shield it? PK Flash actually doesn't have much recovery time, just a lot of startup. Also, it's the highest damaging move Ness has. Use it on people who broke their shield if PKT2 can't KO them.

The two times I got a KO with PK Flash in tournament were when a Luigi misfired into one (lol) and when I broke my opponent's shield and didn't feel like using PKT2 for the KO.

 

[EarthBoundEnigma]

I'm sorry guys, but simply put, PK Flash is still really bad at a high level. Mostly because of how ledge snapping works in this game, the safest option is to charge right into it and just grab the ledge ASAP. The low active frames and the fact that it does not drop low enough below the ledge prevent it form being useful even as an edgeguard. The opponent should have a lot of options for getting to that ledge too since in order to charge PK Flash, you weren't hindering their path back to the stage.

The only situation it can really be useful as an edgeguard is if you somehow knocked the majority of Jigglypuff's jumps off and she's forced to use all of her recovery might to just make it back. Since her DJs don't have auto sweetspotting, and she has no UpB recovery, she might be vulnerable. But fat chance you're gonna find a Jiggs that lets that actually happen to them somehow. Shulk doesn't auto snap to ledges either, but he's got jump mode.

Don't even think about using it as an uair replacement. Uair is stronger, faster, AND much easier to hit with.

To give credit where it is due though, PK Flash does break shields really well. But what opponent will just let you charge it then run in and shield it? PK Flash actually doesn't have much recovery time, just a lot of startup. Also, it's the highest damaging move Ness has. Use it on people who broke their shield if PKT2 can't KO them.

The two times I got a KO with PK Flash in tournament were when a Luigi misfired into one (lol) and when I broke my opponent's shield and didn't feel like using PKT2 for the KO.

It is guaranteed if you read several characters' "ground pound" moves, but won't be quick enough to catch most dairs. It is extremely unfortunate, but this move seems better geared for 2v2s than 1v1s, since it really needs the opponent to basically be helpless or in a fixed animation to land it. Consider it a surprise attack option when you're ahead and see the opportunity, or as others have mentioned, on characters whose shields have popped over 40% or so, but yeah, in 1v1s at least, PK Flash is a novelty move, at worst, it is a situational KO option.

 

[Pryze]

I certainly have my fair share of experience with Ness--having played him since the 64 days--and I have yet to find so much as one practical use for this move. In any scenario where PK Flash would be anywhere near even relatively useful (Which is when the opponent is offstage), it's usually outclassed by the likes of PKT, DSmash, or any rising aerial (All of which are far less situational, and will almost certainly result in Ness getting more kills than he would with PK Flash.)

If anything, I would say it's 'best' usage is getting the edge-guard against characters with predictable or slow recoveries, hitting them just before they can snap the ledge or something along those lines. Likewise, it can be used to scare opponents with slow recoveries, sometimes causing them to almost completely avoid them ledge in fear of them getting smacked by PK Flash and dying at ~40%. Even so, like Earthbound360 stated above, with the current ledge snapping mechanics in sm4sh, this just isn't a viable option.

personally i generally use it to punish bad or slow recoveries by basically covering the ledge with the radius which instantly KO's them and i can actually do it pretty consistently against and sometimes even.

The only problem with this is that this is extremely situational, and all of those characters can usually be edge-guarded by a better, less situational move. Take Fox and Falco, for example--while I could be flashy and go for the PK Flash kill, why would I opt for that over the safer option of going for a rising Nair or run-off Bair? Or even gimping them with the tail of PKT? What about edge-guarding with Ness' Dsmash? The same can be said for Bowser, DK, Duck Hunt, Doc, Ganon, ect. While it may be just barely passable for edge-guarding, there are far better options for doing so.

tl;dr, PK Flash, in my opinion, has no uses. Some argue that it's good for edge-guarding or that its novelty factor can add toward its advantages, but a bad move is just that--bad. In high-level play, this move should never be used, as it is heavily outclassed by some of Ness' other, far better moves, and, of course, because it's slower than the Warlock Punch. (Unless your opponent's shield breaks, and you want to send them off in flashy fashion!)

That's just my two cents, anyway.

 

[The 0ne]

Well, first of all, I don't know what y'all are saying about using it IF you dint want to use PKT2. It is THE ABSOLUTE STRONGEST MOVE NESS HAS. Why wouldn't you use it after a shield break?

Anyway, as for me, I use PK Flash for ledgeguarding, sometimes the uair replacement if I have no jumps left. But I also use it when people are on platforms. Let me tell you. This move is GREAT for platforms. Tech chase? PK Flash. Missed tech? PK Flash/upair. Camping on a platform, and it's unsafe to jump up, since neither up tilt or up smash hits through the battlefield platforms? Whaddaya know? PK Flash. Even the non-fully charged one is strong. And, you can sometimes wait a bit and break their shield with it on a platform.

Also, the mid-charged one hits on the middle platform in Battlefield.

 

[Shaky]

Uncharged PK Flash -> nair/uair is guaranteed at most percents so if you get one of those it's easy to combo out of it.

 

[Earthbound360]

Shaky... lives?

Oh, and if you somehow get a shield break at 0%, turn around (face away from them) and use PK Flash about 1 Bowser length away from the opponent. Full charged PK Flash combos into bair for like 50ish% in 2 hits lol. It's probably the strongest true combo in the entire game.

 

[The 0ne]

Full charged PK Flash combos into bair for like 50ish% in 2 hits lol. It's probably the strongest true combo in the entire game.

I have got to try that.

Wait a minute, how the hell did you come across that anyway?

 

[Lukingordex]

I have got to try that.

Wait a minute, how the hell did you come across that anyway?

I posted about this combo in another thread.

Also guys, uncharged PK flash may be "useful" if you're without your double jump (which should not happen ) and your opponent is above you in some weird platform (like in Delfino). It does decent damage to shields and is a substitute to DJ Uair.

 

[Earthbound360]

Lol yeah @ Lukingordex found it. In fact, I really do want to know how the heck he thought of it to begin with. But I had fun with that stupid little combo. I really wanna get it on someone some day in tournament.

 

[MrMariosta1]

I love using it when my opponent accidentally uses their recovery move as they are trying to get back onto the stage. :D

 

[Lukingordex]

Lol yeah @ Lukingordex found it. In fact, I really do want to know how the heck he thought of it to begin with. But I had fun with that stupid little combo. I really wanna get it on someone some day in tournament.

I was just messing around in training mode and decided to test what happens with mario when he is hit by full charged PK Flash at different %s.

Funny enough I tried to Fair him after one at 0% just for the lulz not expecting it to connect, but it did, and the combo meter showed that it was a true combo. I decided to test it further and I discovered that both PK Flash -> Uair (50%) and PK Flash -> 2 fairs (51%) are true combos at 0%. I didn't test Bair so I didn't know PK Flash -> Bair (52%) was also a true combo until now.

Also @ Earthbound360 i'd rather use PK Flash -> 2 fairs than PK Flash -> Bair because it's easier to do, it's a lot more stylish, and if you think about it, it may be a better option because while it does 1% less, you avoid stalling Bair which could be even better than that addiotional 1%.

 

[Earthbound360]

Yeah but imagine doing that on camera, turning around to do PK Flash, making the commentators wonder why exactly you chose to do PK Flash with your back turned, only to bair the opponent for 52%

Plus, you're using bair literally at 0%, I'm sure it'll be unscaled by the time you need it to KO.

 

[The 0ne]

By the way guys, I don't know if you've noticed this by now, but unlike Lucas's PK Freeze in Brawl and Ness's PK Flash in PM, PK Flash in Smash 4 goes farther behind you. If you're trying to ledgeguard someone far out, turn your back to them sir.

 

[Lukingordex]

By the way guys, I don't know if you've noticed this by now, but unlike Lucas's PK Freeze in Brawl and Ness's PK Flash in PM, PK Flash in Smash 4 goes farther behind you. If you're trying to ledgeguard someone far out, turn your back to them sir.

that hardly makes any difference because the point of using PK flash as an edgeguard tool is to explode it near the ledge.

I mean, If you try to chase someone with a PK Flash offstage it will never hit unless you want to troll a little mac that's already dead

 

[The 0ne]

Well, for tech reads maybe, if the forward one wouldn't reach. Basically, I just use it backwards always anyway, because it travels horizontally faster anyway.

 

[Earthbound360]

By the way guys, I don't know if you've noticed this by now, but unlike Lucas's PK Freeze in Brawl and Ness's PK Flash in PM, PK Flash in Smash 4 goes farther behind you. If you're trying to ledgeguard someone far out, turn your back to them sir.

I knew about this. I use it in teams when I feel like making my ally 2v1 the opponents and blow up the entire fight from a safe distance.

Ya'll don't even know about my... B REVERSED PK FLASH AW YEE

 

[Uffe]

I posted about this combo in another thread.

Also guys, uncharged PK flash may be "useful" if you're without your double jump (which should not happen ) and your opponent is above you in some weird platform (like in Delfino). It does decent damage to shields and is a substitute to DJ Uair.

Do you have a link to that? I'm having a hard time thinking of how that would set up.

 

[Lukingordex]

Do you have a link to that? I'm having a hard time thinking of how that would set up.

https://youtu.be/iERIU7wsAOg?list=PLeZlN3aTVYnAwpaAiFbS_D3F3ltNP6J5q&t=570
Not exactly what I meant since I still had my DJ, but I think it can give you a idea about what I'm talking about.

Bonus:

Punishing an air dodge with Pk Flash:

If I had used any aerial he would have avoided it, I think.
https://youtu.be/rE3jI1kJdwc?t=363


But yeah extremely situational and the reward for it is pretty minimal, only worth it if you're without your DJ and you have no other way to punish your opponent above you.

 

[Uffe]

Alright, then. I was hoping to see it work exactly as planned. I got an idea of how it looks, though, and that's all that matters, so thanks.

 

[YouReadMyName]

Use for having PKflash: trolling the Kirby who sucked you up think he would get pkfire then trying it out only to find out he got one of the most useless moves in the game. Priceless.

 

[Earthbound360]

My main problem with PK Flash uncharged as an overhead attack is that it's not PKT. PKT is almost always better.

 

[The 0ne]

JESUS dude, are you a peasant? OBVIUOSLY PK Flash is better because it deals NINE damage versus EIGHT. AAUUUGH!

 

[Earthbound360]

JESUS dude, are you a peasant? OBVIUOSLY PK Flash is better because it deals NINE damage versus EIGHT. AAUUUGH!

OBJECTION!
PKT sweetspotted does 9%!
TAKE THAT!!

 

[The 0ne]

Oh right if it's just starting LMAO PK FLASH CONRIMED FRAUD

 

[kennypu]

default PK Flash imo is best used uncharged. It is a very good tool in place of uair if you read air dodges, or punish opponents coming down from above.

If you do an uncharged PK Flash, the ending lag is surprisingly fast, and if you do a SH b-pivot uncharged pk flash (away from the opponent), even if it misses most of the time you should be able to jab or ftilt an opponent coming towards you.

For example, at low-mid percentage, you can do dthrow to SH b-pivot pk flash. if the opponent air dodges to try to avoid a fair or uair follow up, it will connect.

another thing to note: if you do a SH regular uncharged PK Flash, you will slide horizontally quite significantly, so it can be used to try to hit someone above you while positioning your self

 

[randomnessmain]

..........

 

[anas abou]

PK Flash, in my opinion, has no uses. Some argue that it's good for edge-guarding or that its novelty factor can add toward its advantages, but a bad move is just that--bad. In high-level play, this move should never be used, as it is heavily outclassed by some of Ness' other, far better moves, and, of course, because it's slower than the Warlock Punch. (Unless your opponent's shield breaks, and you want to send them off in flashy fashion!)

That's just my two cents, anyway.

i wouldn't say PK flash has NO uses but i can surely say that it isn't and probably would never be a viable option in the neutral game and should be used with uncanny caution
tho i would love to see an update give it a long lingering hitbox that could control space kinda like the yo-yo glitch in melee but bigger and easier to use

 

[The 0ne]

Sometimes it's fun to throw out PK Flash in neutral when they are far away, and give em a good scare. More than likely they'll either shield it or try to avoid it by running or jumping away, so it's pretty immediate long lasting stage control.

And again, I love it for platforms.

 

[Earthbound360]

I'm pretty sure the first 10 active frames of pkt2 have more knock back than a fully charged pk flash, so I don't think that its even useful in a shield break situation. Just for edge-guarding really.

While it does do less knockback than PKT2, it does more damage (significantly, 37 > 25).
So it's useful for shield breaks below kill percents. But PKT2 KOs at like 40% lol.

 

[IMACULGY]

When you are TRYING to use PK Flash, your best bet would be on the edge. However, don't use it right away. Catch your opponents habit when going on the edge (use back throw, lol). For example, if you are edge guarding, a falcon might roll so he can get the advantage from behind you. Mix it up with PK Flash, that will really screw up his game. Sometimes, you don't have to even hit it. Once, I was fighting a Meta Knight main that kept rolling into me. Using PK Flash and missing made him aware, so he jumped every time on the ledge instead of rolling (of course, an intelligent player would not do this, he would mix it up, but it is not rare encountering players like the MK in FG ). Of course, my next step in that situation was to style on him, which is the most satisfying thing for me in smash, especially on Meta Knight, by using PK Flash again. It was still a powerful move, even if it wasn't full power.

To sum up my thoughts and opinions, PK Flash is good when used as a distraction as well as a damaging move. If you should know one thing about me, it's that I am not the best smash player, but I am good at exploiting the mental game.

#Ness4TopTier

 

[_clinton]

PK Flash, Rising Flash, and PK Freeze all need buffs, really all of Ness' specials need a buff.
-PK Flash, upped shield damage. Full charged one will break a shield in general. This is the most useful of them, might as well make it have a slight upgrade. Really don't know why a fully charged one doesn't break a shield already anyway.

-Rising Flash, upped horizontal control some, turned into an air mine that lasts in place for a second or so that blows up when someone gets close to it or after a while, this gives a new use for uthrow for one thing, it also gives a temp trap for someone trying to recover high

-PK Freeze, upped horizontal control, Ness can auto cancel it at any time and the move will continue as normal and break when it touches a floor, how far it moves depends on when you auto cancel it. If used normally it will still break when it touches a floor but will now travel lower than Ness, letting him snipe low recovering characters. The fact that this has set knockback will make getting hit by this very scary for anyone who recovers low, and Ness having a moving hitbox that will blow up after a while will make the most useless version of flash far more useful.

 

[Lukingordex]

I think Rising PK Flash is the worst special move in the smash bros. history. I mean at least PK Flash does down so you can explode it on the ledge or even on yourself to avoid being punished, but Rising PK Flash goes in the most useless direction in the world while also being extremely laggy.

If Rising PK Flash actually went down instead of up but had more lag, I would actually consider using it instead of PK Flash since it has more power and would be more useful than PK Flash if someone somehow had his shield broken or something.

Also Ness' PK Freeze is a offense. Same lag as PK Flash but is a lot less rewarding than it

 

[Earthbound360]

I think Rising PK Flash is the worst special move in the smash bros. history. I mean at least PK Flash does down so you can explode it on the ledge or even on yourself to avoid being punished, but Rising PK Flash goes in the most useless direction in the world while also being extremely laggy.

If Rising PK Flash actually went down instead of up but had more lag, I would actually consider using it instead of PK Flash since it has more power and would be more useful than PK Flash if someone somehow had his shield broken or something.

Also Ness' PK Freeze is a offense. Same lag as PK Flash but is a lot less rewarding than it

I don't think rising flash is the worst on the virtue that PK freeze exists. It's literally outclassed by vanilla flash in every single way.