Pivot cancels/skid stops vs side-b > sheild cancel

[R4ZE]

1. Run > Side-B > Sheild cancel > Fsmash
This method is also reletively safe compared to the others because there is a window that sonic has his sheild up, and this can result in perfect sheilding as well.
This method also lets off a spin sound, which can cause opponents to expect a spin attack of some kind.

2. Run > Skid Stop > Fsmash Cancel
This method is thought to have less frames than method 1, and is faster?

3. Run > Turnaround > Fsmash Cancel
This method seems to be almost exactly like method 2, just different animations and sounds.


I have been able to use all of these things in my matches successfully, and they have helped a lot because landing a tricky fsmash usually leads to a kill

TOPIC: which one of these methods is best? Which ones do you use? Why?

 

[memphischains]

they all work fine, it depends on your and your opponents play style. each method should be use accordingly.

if you don't shield cancel during matches often, then you should practice the spacing to get the very end of his fist to hit so there is not a lot of room to punish.

with the skid stop, there are better options imo, but if you feel the need the same thing with spacing as the SC goes along with it. the shield cancel has more of a "mindgame" tactic to it however.
usually, if i'm using the skid, it go into either a jab, dtilt or ftilt. jab leads to almost everything sonic has to offer.

the turn around has all the same speculations as the stuff above does. if you're that desperate for an fsmash, maybe you should pick up wolf lol.

 

[thecatinthehat]

F-smash is very situtational for me.

I almost never try to force myself into using it.

Meaning, I don't create setups or approach with the intent of using it.

I pretty much only use it when it's in range.

Bair is my main kill move.

 

[darkNES386]

It's situational... and to clarify:

3 is probably slightly slower for Sonic (as opposed to most characters)

What you really should mention is foxtrot>foxtrot/dashDance>fsmash as option 3.

Option 3 is faster than 2 but results in punishment if you start to closer to your opponent because you can not shield (without first >B). However, it is safer in a sense because you can retreat with a well timed pivot cancel. Is everyone following me?

 

[Tenki]

A run > turnaround > pivot smash ("stutter step") or even extended stutter step is a nice bait+punish.

People are like "OH NO HERE HE COMES!" *shield*
then you start to turn around, far out of range, they release shield, and all of a sudden, you land a F-smash travelling like 1/3 of the level away lol.

 

[darkNES386]

Can turnaround be clarified for me?

 

[memphischains]

i think hes referring to a studderstep in the opposite direction, no?

 

[Tenki]

Run > Hit back (turnaround/ "dash pivot") > C-stick in the original direction (pivot F-smash) --OR-- Forward-back-C-stickforward (extended stutterstep)

 

[memphischains]

yeah thats what i meant

10tenkitechnicals

 

[thecatinthehat]

I have a bad habit of foxtrot > reverse spin cancel.

As opposed to turn around stutter stepping.

It always causes me to be late with the f-smash lol.

 

[darkNES386]

so turn around equals pivot cancel... right?

 

[R4ZE]

when your running forward, and you press backward and sonic does his "turnaround" animation. if that is a pivot cancel then yes. I was unfamilier with the correct terminology.

well i appriciate the tips guys, i never honestl thought of doing jabs or tilts form the skid stop.



do you guys actually use dash dance for smashes? seemed like it would be insanely hard to pull of in a match.

 

[Napilopez]

1) when your running forward, and you press backward and sonic does his "turnaround" animation. if that is a pivot cancel then yes. I was unfamilier with the correct terminology.

2) well i appriciate the tips guys, i never honestl thought of doing jabs or tilts form the skid stop.



3) do you guys actually use dash dance for smashes? seemed like it would be insanely hard to pull of in a match.

1) Dash Pivot cancels are whem you cancel the standard running turnaround animation with an attack, tis all. An advantage is that it can be cancelled into any attack, which comes in handy cuz dsmash is quicker than fsmash, + IASA frames and watnot.

2) For skidstop fsmashes, you're sometimes/often/usually better off running past your opponent, skidstop, then reverse fsmash XD. If you don't use it too much, then it is uber-effective when you do lulz.

3) If by dashdances, you mean foxtrot to insta dashdance/foxtrot fsmash, then yes, there is tremendous use for it. Watch Puffball's vids, he uses foxtrot dash dance pivots and fsmashes all the times.

Mixem up.

Oh yea, charging fsmash from a foxtrot>fsmash is tooo good. especially if you stutter step it. XD

I'm pretty sure that foxtrot>fsmash(whether by inputting another foxtrot or through a dashdance pivot) is the quickest option out of these 3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jEtEQDFj08

Check out the last kill, at 4:14. Foxtrot>fsmash ftw.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Nap, you always post with a wall of text lol

 

[memphischains]

thats not a wall of text

 

[thecatinthehat]

compared to most of my posts, yes it is.

 

[Camalange]

compared to most of my posts, yes it is.

lol, all your posts are one liners so everything must be like a wall of text to you.

Except for this.

 

[R4ZE]

i did an experiment yesterday. I incorperated a ton of side-sheild cancels into my game.

it works insanely well for grabs + down throw + tech chase.




So my conlusion is that. i would mainly use skid stops and turnaround cancelling when i am going behind the opponent, or intercepting their landing. (basicly a place where i would benefit more from the slight extra speed rather than the safety of a sheild)

i would recomend using sheild cancels when approaching from the front though. it would make sense to try to sheild cancel just in fsmash range, and then if you accidently execute sheild too late and endup closer, you can just grab instead.

 

[darkNES386]

Instead of making a new thread I figured I post this here... this is nothing new... just w/e

If you can be smooth and fast enough with your fingers you can execute pivot tilts/jabs or just stop right in place. That's the highest reward for learning how to foxtrot>pivot without starting another foxtrot in the reverse direction. In the mean time... a screech stop pivot from a dash is sufficient for me. The timing is tough. Don't let people trick you into thinking they can do the true foxtrot pivot. His foxtrot has like no lag on it... so it's pointless for him to do the true pivot.

/rant

edit... phanna is ridiculous and has mad technical skills