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Character: Pit
Current BBR MU Rating: -2
What to watch out for: Pit can reflect PKT2 with his mirror shield, which can be a major hazard to our recovery.
Stages
-Strike: Lylat Cruise, Yoshi's Island
-Ban: Rainbow Cruise, Frigate, Brinstar(debatable)
-Counterpicks: PS1, Brinstar(debatable)
Lucas Boards Matchup Rating: -2
[collapse=Matchup Summaries:]
Neither of us are going to be camping this game, due to magnet and reflectors, obviously. Even offstage, you guys can magnet our arrows, without too much trouble and our WoI(up-b) cancels out your side b and PKT1. You can threaten us off stage pretty badly with your meteor smashes, but on most stages we'll just go under so it isnt a problem. You have to be scared ot us offstage though, because we can reflect your PKT2 with our mirror shield similarly to mario's cape. I know you guys have the zap jump and magnet pull+your tether, but if you get caught offstage with no DJ you're in trouble.
IIRC your moves have a variety of range, but most are about mid and close to ours. This means both sides have to(as usual) be concerned about spacing. DAT F-TILT! If we screw up with angel ring(side b) and you end up behind us, you probably have enough time to punish with that insane u-smash of yours, but that's the only move that will have enough lag to provide you with such a punish to my knowledge.
I'm a bit sleepy and i'll come back tommorow.
ummmm..... what? xcallion you be crazy.
maganet or not pit will be camping you because lets face it, he out ranges you and doesn't have to hit your magnet with his arrow, when i play lucas i just charge the arrow and if you use magnet i shoot it up and bring it around to hit you in the back just to prove that if i have to i will keep doing that until the lucas approaches (of course im the pit known for arrow control so that could just be me you have to worry about). you guys have a lot of decent up close options on us though. your grab range and sh aerials are what you be relying on the entire match to damage us though because pit's attacks are very high priority and his tilt and jab range aren't bad by any means. he can effectively dtilt and jab only against you on the ground if you try to use any thing besides your grab (except your fsmash but both moves are faster and can clank it based on spacing).
in the air you want to be in the aggressor's position because our uair when space right or left of you wins always whereas your dair will beat the center. a good lucas can overwhelm pit with a sh aerial assult because our nair doesn't have the range to beat out your fair (i think im not to sure here) and your crazy aerial strings are fast and do good damage.
this is another one of your guys don't get grabbed MUs. we can regrab, fsmash, dsmash, dtilt, jab, AR, and dash attack you out of grab release. don't get in a position where you need to recover because if you do will either reflect you, WOI push you and mess up how you would hit yourself with pk thunder, or shoot pkt with arrows and try to cancell it.
random notes, you guys can keep us guessing with your aerials, but our aerials like or fair and dair are great for spacing and our bair will kill you at like 90% stage position dependent. gr>fsmash fresh should definitely kill you by 125% if not gr>dsmash will at like 135%. you can gimp us out of WOI with pkt. your pk fire is only good as a retreat up close trying to camp with it will get it reflected in your face by one of our reflectors. our ground game wins, our fair and dair can return air combat but your air game is where it's at. and oh ya your dsmash can stop our planking.
as for stage bans, we will probably use RC, brinstar, lylat, frigate, halberd or delphino (sharking too good on these 2). idk what i would strike against lucas, probably just strike SV to and YI (sv to remove a stage people are comfortable on and YI because it is our worst stage).
you will want to cp YI, ps1, and if you are good on ps2 then there as well. we can't fly under those stages.
also your usmash can't be used to punish AR unless we mess up really bad (referancing above post). however it makes us very worried about ever trying to glide over you so keep it in mind when we try to land
edit:
so overall, we out range, out camp, and have gr>bull**** on you. we also have a lot of good edgeguarding options but your wavebounce shenanigans do a lot of good for ya.
Brinstar and RC are some of our favs. We're also starting to like PS2 because we can pull some funny **** with the physics changes. So if those two are your strongest stages then you dont really have amazing CPs on us. In normal MU's we like to be on FD in match 1 because of camping, but i dont think that is very prudent in this particular case. I think that if i we going against a lucas i would probably take you to lylat if i could, because it hurts your recovery a bit, those Pk-fires are going to fail sometimes and neither of these bother us in the least, because of our arrow curving and WoI being able to take us anywhere as long as we dont get hit. Frigate also deserves a mention because once again, it hurts your recovery and (main) projectile at times. If Japes was legal for some reason, that would be a great stage for us to take you to.
We really hate stages we cant fly under, so PS1 is a good choice for you if we dont ban it. I dont exactly know why you guys dislike YiB but if it isnt too horrible for you, it's a viable CP. Pit doesnt really have too many bad stages on, as he's pretty adaptable and can play at all ranges (in most MU's) and can adapt to most stages.
I'm not sure about the GR kills and i intend to withold judgment until more info on this is retrieved and the discussion goes on for a while.
we'll both be approaching with SH aerials and baiting magnet/reflector. I think that whoever is less patient is going to have to approach as we can both camp eachother pretty well. At very long ranges, while you're grounded just sit there with magnet until we get close enough for you to threaten and bait us with pk-fire. Once we're close to one another, we'll be using a lot of jab and d-tilt as those are good ranged fast moves and they beat a lot of your close range options. You guys in turn should be doing SH aerials like usual (DAT NAIR!) and you shouldnt let us stay inside our safe zone. Make us be on edge and not in control. That's the only way you're really going to win CQC with a character like us. it's not like we're MK and we outrange and outprioritize everything you have by a huge margin, but we do have a bit more range on several of our moves than you do.
Hey look, my 555th post
alright then, ill list how i usually fight lucas instead of arguing frame data. this is what works for me so whether it's frame proven or not, here's how i personally handle him.
when we are both at zero percent ill just out patient lucas until he approaches. seriously i have no reason to approach as lucas has a hard time approaching pit because of dtilt, jab, sh fair, and sh dair all out space lucas while allowing pit to keep his mobility. these moves are longer in range and have that high priority pit is known for. dtilt will be used mostly when you are near it's tip to avoid the possibility of punishment and jab will be used when you are closer than that. fair will be used in conjunction with those 2 moves to keep the space between us adequate enough to allow pit to have plenty of options whereas dair will be used to get in a read or mix up defensive tactics and get you in the air where we want you.
while pit's standing grab range is nothing special, his pivot grab range is almost marth status. and seeing as how it was discovered that you can instant pivot grab a long while ago, most pit's use this to get the grab range boost and that is where the gr follow ups will most likely come from outside of a read.
believe it or not, lucas is still succeptible to aspects of our onstage arrow game (offstage should be an obvious duh lol). you have to approach assuming pit is in the lead and grounded pivot arrow will either catch you off guard or force a reaction from you that will usually be favorable for pit (you shield as we charge arrow) or neutral (pull out magnet whereas we can angle it not to heal you).
getting the kill just involves patience for pit. we will either try to force a mistake on stage and gr>fsmash/dsmash or we will rock you offstage (yes we all know by now that lucas does have options offstage, the fact is one fair or bair offstage and you are dead the hard way. otherwise we are just waiting for an opportunity to gimp you somehow). also onstage, one read side step and you will be ftilted at kill percents and our ftilt is a solid kill move and as esca stated it outranges and out prioritizes everything you do.
stages would be halberd and RC for me as i play the mu hella gay there and just shark and gimp the entire time and on the normal parts i just play as listed above.
There's other things but I don't know how much more can be said. I've played Tyr's lucas, and though it was pretty easy for me as Pit... eh... It can be tough if the Lucas plays a good zap-jump keep away and absorbption game. Just, it seems too easy for Lucas to get flubbed up, a lot of it has to do with his lack of range I believe.
- WoI gimps Lucas off stage pretty hard
- Arrows gimp him even harder than ness if he's forced to use PKT2
- Zap-jumping when used efficiently still puts Lucas at a bad position; above Pit. U-air, arrows if used correctly, and WoI-refresh chasing lets Pit get an upperhand on Lucas from his akward position with no jumps now.
- Grab-release shananigans as Esca said
Brinstar would be fun against Lucas, but it's best to keep it to neutrals, doesn't matter. Hell YI even can mess up Lucas's recovery-interests, and we generally don't NEED to scrooge to be safe coming back on stage on YI.
My stages would be personally be:
BF
Lylat
RC
Brinstar
there are different types of zapjumps, we can instantly magnetpull afterone of them. and if pushes us pretty far.
aproaches
dair and landing behind pit with nair are safe on shield.
im thinking out forward air is always good too. font get grabbed at low precentiles though if ur gonna do it.
[/collapse]Also I haven't really been reading this thread so I'm not sure about what's been said before like today. But here are some things about both character's specials.
Lucas PK Freeze - Pit can mirror shield it if it hits the shield. If it hits Pit then it'll freeze him.
Lucas PK Fire - Generally safe implying it's just being used only for attacking purposes. Can also hit Pit out of WoI.
Lucas PK Thunder - Can be reflected by Angel Ring and Mirror Shield. The head gets cancelled out by WoI, but it can hit Pit out of WoI after the starting push. Hits Pit out of glide, the head can be cancelled out by glide attack.
Lucas PSI Magnet - Magnet Cancelling arrows, other technical stuff that nobody ever does.
Lucas PK Thunder 2 - Can be reflected by Pit's Mirror Shield. Generally not a safe recovery option.
Pit arrows - Can be used to gimp Lucas. (Hit Lucas or hit his PKT to cancel it). Can also be used effectively if not mindlessly spammed or telegraphed.
Pit Angel Ring - Reflects Lucas's projectiles. Lucas can hit Pit out of it with Fsmash if Pit doesn't end it in time.
Pit Mirror Shield - Can be used to reflect projectiles and Lucas's PK Thunder 2 recovery.
Pit WoI - Cancels out the head of Lucas's PK Thunder. Lucas can hit Pit out of it with Bair, PK Fire, or PK Thunder if Pit rides up alongside the stage to make it to the ledge, or just about anything if Pit recovers outwards. If Pit recovers high, he can be hit out of WoI with Zap Jump, or use PK Thunder and punish the airdodge.
Pit gimping Lucas:
-WoI pushes Lucas away from his PK Thunder.
-WoI cancels out Lucas's PK Thunder.
-Mirror shield reflects Lucas's PK Thunder 2.
-Arrows cancel out PK Thunder.
-Arrows hit Lucas out of his double jump and he's forced to recover with PK Thunder, leading into a Mirror Shield gimp.
-Fair/Bair.
Lucas's Recovery Options:
-Double Jump.
-Airdodge.
-Zap Jump --> Magnet Pull.
-Zap Jump.
-Zair (mixing up the timings).
-Magnet Pull.
-Falling down low and wait for invincibility frames on the ledge to run out, then rising Nair.
Btw Lucas can't really do anything to Pits planking, and Pit can't really do anything to Lucas if Lucas just waits it out, so that's nothing to worry about. Just don't try to PK Thunder or Dsmash him if he's planking because it won't work and Pit will punish.