Pit Matchup Discussion -Marth. (MT linked)

[Coffee™]

Marth



The Marth vs Pit Matchup from the MarthBoards.

There are no Pros and Cons on the Marth Boards so I'll just be providing a link to their Pit Matchup Thread which had a fair amount of discussion.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=5210924

Discuss!!!

 

[CorruptFate]

This match up is all about spaceing... the problem is, that Marths range is generally slightly farther then Pits and with that being the case Marth will tipper you. So you really have to play an extreme ranged game and camp the hell out of him and bat him away when you can, or get in really close by angel stepping/air dodgeing Marths attacks and getting alittle bit closer.

Marth is also extremely fast, and good priority so you really need to be on your game for this fight. Luckly for you Marth has no projectile or amazing recovery so I would think you shouldn't get gimped out of your wings any time in this fight. Mirror shield can gimp his up B but watch out cause it is very fast and can stage spike you if your timing is a split second to late.

 

[Rogue Pit]

What Fate said.
Also you might find yourself running alot to shoot a couple of arrows, but watch out while ledge camping, Marth's moves have hitboxs on the ground, can still reach you even when you can't reach him. And a good marth can just powershield arrows. Also being predictable while ledge camping isn't good being as though you have to keep running to the ledge is dangerous.

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Despite what the Marth boards have said, I still feel a campy Pit can give Marth a hard time. Nearly enough to push it to even in my opinion.

 

[Admiral Pit]

Forgetting the Marth boards... even though i might barely say that Marth has a SLIGHT advantage, with the range and speed and such (I hate you tippers), the fact that Pit has one of the best projectiles in the game as well as one of the best camping, edgeguarding, and gimping capabilities...
Pit might not be able to take Marth head on, but pressuring him in a "defensive" campy way is just one of the ways that Pit can stand up to him.

 

[CorruptFate]

Forgetting the Marth boards... even though i might barely say that Marth has a SLIGHT advantage, with the range and speed and such (I hate you tippers), the fact that Pit has one of the best projectiles in the game as well as one of the best camping, edgeguarding, and gimping capabilities...
Pit might not be able to take Marth head on, but pressuring him in a "defensive" campy way is just one of the ways that Pit can stand up to him.

"Pressuring him a "defensive" campy way" is a term you hear about as often as gay rebulican. haha me.

Any way Im not sure what stages I would say for sure, BF is a great Marth stage as just like Pit so I would call it neutralish for this match up. Im not sure what stages I would say are good for this match up.

 

[Coffee™]

bump?

10 bumps?

 

[Admiral Pit]

Just counter him on Norfair for all I care. Marth is horrible when Pit is below him, ready to deliver U-airs.

 

[Coffee™]

Norfair isn't exactly bad for Marth....

Uairs on Norfair are pretty predictable and a counter will throw you off pretty easily. You will also have a considerably harder time gimping Marth here due to all the ledges. Norfair doesn't provide any big advantages as compared with other characters in this matchup.

 

[kown]

this matchup is hard....camping doesnt work... your only option is to trade fair hits and add to the damage with arrows...giving marth more damage than pit recieving. and finish off with an fsmash.

 

[Rogue Pit]

DO NOT COUNTER NORFAIR. Trust me, being as though marth can zone pit, and who ever controls the bottom middle platform most likely controls the stage isn't good for pit. Ledge camping doesn't work well either, Marth's Dtilt, and Fsmash can hit you on the edge, Fsmash tipper is the most deadliest in this case. If you lost control of the middle platform you get owned badly. Counterpick a stage where recovery is everything, or be gay and just run away at Hanenbow.

 

[Flamingo777]

i likey the pipe cleaner marth

 

[Kyuubi9t]

you must be extremely focused during this match up

 

[CorruptFate]

DO NOT COUNTER NORFAIR. Trust me, being as though marth can zone pit, and who ever controls the bottom middle platform most likely controls the stage isn't good for pit. Ledge camping doesn't work well either, Marth's Dtilt, and Fsmash can hit you on the edge, Fsmash tipper is the most deadliest in this case. If you lost control of the middle platform you get owned badly. Counterpick a stage where recovery is everything, or be gay and just run away at Hanenbow.

What do you say about Skyworld for this 1? I pick it some items but if the marth gets the middle bottom of the stage then his attacks are 2 fast with good reach and with how the stage is built it makes a box around him that is very hard to approch, as you can't fall throught the clouds and if you try to come from under him he can just SHDair and theres the spike. Granted if you can control that spot then marth shouldn't be TOO hard with the fact that his recovery is sub par on this stage, but do people think it tips the odds in Pits favor enough or does it make it a "neutralish" stage for this fight?

 

[AndrewCarlson]

Skyworld is banned in a good majority of places, so I wouldn't rely of that for a counterpick if at all.

 

[CorruptFate]

Are you sure its the majority, I have heard the majority have it on CP I know it is here in UT?

 

[SirSpamAlot]

ive never lost to a marth when i use pit...am I just playing garbage marths or i just played too many i already know what they do 0_o

 

[Kyuubi9t]

You are probably playing garbage marths. You should def encounter at least SOME trouble when playing against a good marth w/ pit

 

[Admiral Pit]

I already know I have. Nothing more painful then getting Tippered unsuspectingly, and even some Fsmash spammin Marths get lucky occasionally. But thankfully Marth does have somewhat of a limited recovery (though he can slightly stall with Side b), and with Pit's exceptional Edgeguarding and gimping skills, that will benefit him, but still Marth's range is trouble...

And Weight-wise, Marth seems to be lighter than Pit. That's another plus for Pit to make up for his lack of KO power.

 

[Coffee™]

Marth summary done.

Marth, the only guy capable of wearing a tiara while still being considered a worthy adversary.

Marth is a very balanced character, who has speed, range and power all packed together to create one of the games most capable opponents. Marth isn't all advantages however and does have some significant weakness that can be exploited fairly easily with a bit of effort. First of all Marth is extremely light for a guy of his size, lighter than Pit in fact which means that you shouldn't have much trouble KOing him. Comparatively Marth doesn't have much trouble KOing you either as his smashes are strong and will KO you at lower percentages, especially if Marth manages to land a tipper with any of them. However none of Marths smash attacks are safe for him on block but i'll delve into that a bit later in the summary.

Another weakness of Marth lies in his recovery. Marth has good vertical recovery with his Dolphin Slash (Up B), however his horizontal recovery is extremely poor and generally if Marth is sent far enough from the stage it becomes pratically impossible for him to recover. This is one aspect of the matchup where a Pit should definitely aim to take advantage of. Pit's Arrows eat away at his jumps and push Marth further away from the stage, coupled with the fact that Pit can WOP Marth off the stage as well as reverse the direction of his Dolphin Slash with his Mirror Shield all make for quite an advantageous situation once Pit gets Marth offstage. Pits should however still be wary when chasing a Marth offstage with a WOP as Marth has more than enough aerial options to challenge Pit even when on the defensive, therefore your best option is to generally ping Marth with Arrows to eliminate his second jump before attempting to WOP him, therefore even if he attempts to try to prevent your WOP by attacking you he still remains in a disadvantageous position when trying to get back to the stage. If you're feeling confident you can even attempt Mirror Shielding his attacks offstage as a sort of psuedo-WOP, but it is discouraged as you generally have safer options.

Marths last real "weakness" is that most of his attacks including all of his smashes aren't really safe on block unless spaced correctly. This "weakness" isn't as easily exploited as his other ones especially with Pit's comparatively poor melee options in this matchup but it is possible to create openings in Marths game with which you can capatalize on, primarily your grabs which can lead to other follow-ups and your Fsmash which can punish Marth relatively well OoS. You don't really have to worry much about diminishing your Fmash in this matchup as your Dsmash will generally kill Marth around the same percentage Fsmash would and for the most part just as reliable. You can however alternate which move you want to use, Fsmash as the punisher and Dsmash as the killer or vice versa, but take care not to readily use both moves for punishing least you diminsh both to the point where they are hard to kill with. In addition Pit will always force Marth to approach due to his Arrows which means Marth has to take the offensive in this matchup. It's at this point when Marth has gotten inside his comfort zone that you now have to focus mostly on your spacing. For the most part in this matchup you are going to want to get underneath Marth where he has somewhat of a blindspot. Your Uair, Dthrow, Usmash and Utilt are great moves when in this position and will help greatly in building up damage for a possible KO. However take care not to be too predictable as Marth's Counter (Down B) can seriously put a damper in your plans if you give him ample oppurtunities to use it.

Overall its definitely a tough matchup, one that is going to require patience and quick reactions. Your Arrows and your spacing are going to be one of the key elements in this matchup so don't utilize them correctly and it's your funeral.

 

[Luckay4Lyphe]

So yeah Marth has given me trouble recently since I lost to Nike at Apex and I just wanted to talk about him some. I should have a video up with me vs a pretty good Marth in my region soon where I lose.

Marth is just really good at covering options with his zoning of fair and nair. I try to airdodge and nair goes through, I try to attack and I get fair in the face.

I think the best thing to do is grounded fast paced movement in the matchup with a hint of aerial combat at times. Forward roll is really good against Marth. Still, we can't take advantage of it because he has boost pivot grab which is what Nike did to me a lot when I decided to roll too much and I wasn't thinking well enough to see what was going on and how I was being read so easily. Marth pivot grab is great.

His dancing blade is good for damage buildup and punishing spot dodges. Best thing to do is shield the whole thing then punish. If they do the last hit of DB as the multihit one we can sdi that behind him and fsmash.

The thing that I hate most is dolphin slash though. Your punishes have to be like frame perfect or you could get his invincibility frames in your face on whatever you try to do.

Thing I love most is getting him offstage because that's when arrows work best. He has ways to plank the ledge though, I'm working on finding a counter to that.

How do you guys approach this matchup?