Pit/Dark Pit Players - Some questions

Courageous Baka

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#1
Hello, I'm new to Smashboards. This will be my first post.

Even though I've yet to have gotten Ultimate yet, (Probably a good thing because I would've likely put it above my schoolwork) I've been trying my best to keep up with the competitive scene and watch guides because I really want to be good at Smash this time around.

Pit was my favorite character in KI:U and Smash 4 and I've heard he's only better in this game. While I've heard many say he's a perfect beginner character, I've also heard that he suffers from being an "honest" character in a "dishonest" game. I've seen him placed low tier or middle of mid tier by pretty much everyone. So my questions are:

1. What are your opinions on his tier placement? Is he underrated or where he deserves to be?
2. If I do decide to main Pit, should I play Dark Pit as well? I know their differences already and I've heard you'll want to switch the Pits out for certain matchups and stages. But are they as interchangeable as many say, at least for a low level player like me?
3. Why do you play Pit and/or Dark Pit?

All responses are appreciated.
P.S. I probably could have made this shorter.
 

Kiligar

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#2
1. Vastly underrated and underused. I think he’s on par with Mario, but Mario is just more popular
2. Check out the Pit Matchup Chart on this forum. I thinking it’s pretty accurate and using the correct Pit will net you advantages. You can choose to solo one if you want though.
3. I play Dark Pit because players seem to hate him. And because I also mained him in smash 4. They say statements like “he shouldn’t be in the roster” or “who seriously plays this character”. I love beating top tier tryhards with this guy: Smash U online sucks... but this does put a smile on my face.

4. I want to mention an important detail since you’re planning to pick up the Pits. They don’t carry players. They still have many strengths, but you can’t blindly button mash like regular swordies. They will reward skill, and punish lack of such. That’s what makes them satisfying to learn and use for me.
 
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LightKnight

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#3
Funny enough, I don't have the game yet either but I have gotten to play it some and have opinions to go with your questions.. Before I do though, you should know I consider myself a decent player but not good enough to enter local tournaments so take that as you will.
1. I believe he's at least slightly underrated.. Like you, I've seen some place him in low tier which I don't agree with at all and I get the impression a lot of people with those thoughts have played him just a little then assumed he just carried over from the last game without any real notable changes and thus is in the same tier (from smash 4) or lower. I also think what Kiligar said on this point is pretty accurate. The Pits definitely are much better characters. In Smash 4 it felt like my moves didn't come out or KO fast enough and I'd say those two problems were mostly fixed.
2. I think if your trying to maximize your wins its wise to use both Pits depending on the stage/opponent but I'd say they're fairly interchangeable as well and it shouldn't affect you too much if you decide on playing only 1 of them. For beginners I'd personally recommend Dark-Pit but if you like a versatile projectile for pestering and gimping opponents with then Pit might be the funner choice for you. And playing normal Pit might actually help you develop better habits with both characters overtime easier as your less likely to rely on electroshock spam (a very laggy punishable move) and can work on your arrow aiming skills.
3. I personally play Dark-Pit (yes, I have Yoshi currently as my main but thats cause he's my strongest character at the moment) because he fits my overall style better as I often find myself camping the ledge trying to get the opponent to approach then get them offstage or KO'd early from a unexpected Electroshock. I prefer to go offstage and gimp opponents and I like having fast damaging projectiles so Dark-Pit's arrows make the most sense for me as well. I also like how if I'm offstage and coming back horizontally and the opponent tries to intercept me I can use electroshock to armor through their attack while potentially gimping them off the stage if they don't tech.
 
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Courageous Baka

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#4
1. Vastly underrated and underused. I think he’s on par with Mario, but Mario is just more popular
2. Check out the Pit Matchup Chart on this forum. I thinking it’s pretty accurate and using the correct Pit will net you advantages. You can choose to solo one if you want though.
3. I play Dark Pit because players seem to hate him. And because I also mained him in smash 4. They say statements like “he shouldn’t be in the roster” or “who seriously plays this character”. I love beating top tier tryhards with this guy: Smash U online sucks... but this does put a smile on my face.

4. I want to mention an important detail since you’re planning to pick up the Pits. They don’t carry players. They still have many strengths, but you can’t blindly button mash like regular swordies. They will reward skill, and punish lack of such. That’s what makes them satisfying to learn and use for me.
Rewarding your skill while still not carrying you on their backs sounds great for helping me improve my own skills!
I guess being a so-called "honest" character can be good at other things than one might expect.
 

Courageous Baka

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#5
Funny enough, I don't have the game yet either but I have gotten to play it some and have opinions to go with your questions.. Before I do though, you should know I consider myself a decent player but not good enough to enter local tournaments so take that as you will.
1. I believe he's at least slightly underrated.. Like you, I've seen some place him in low tier which I don't agree with at all and I get the impression a lot of people with those thoughts have played him just a little then assumed he just carried over from the last game without any real notable changes and thus is in the same tier (from smash 4) or lower. I also think what Kiligar said on this point is pretty accurate. The Pits definitely are much better characters. In Smash 4 it felt like my moves didn't come out or KO fast enough and I'd say those two problems were mostly fixed.
2. I think if your trying to maximize your wins its wise to use both Pits depending on the stage/opponent but I'd say they're fairly interchangeable as well and it shouldn't affect you too much if you decide on playing only 1 of them. For beginners I'd personally recommend Dark-Pit but if you like a versatile projectile for pestering and gimping opponents with then Pit might be the funner choice for you. And playing normal Pit might actually help you develop better habits with both characters overtime easier as your less likely to rely on electroshock spam (a very laggy punishable move) and can work on your arrow aiming skills.
3. I personally play Dark-Pit (yes, I have Yoshi currently as my main but thats cause he's my strongest character at the moment) because he fits my overall style better as I often find myself camping the ledge trying to get the opponent to approach then get them offstage or KO'd early from a unexpected Electroshock. I prefer to go offstage and gimp opponents and I like having fast damaging projectiles so Dark-Pit's arrows make the most sense for me as well. I also like how if I'm offstage and coming back horizontally and the opponent tries to intercept me I can use electroshock to armor through their attack while potentially gimping them off the stage if they don't tech.
Even if you haven't been to many tournaments, thanks for your answer.
 

J.B.

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#6
1. What are your opinions on his tier placement? Is he underrated or where he deserves to be?
2. If I do decide to main Pit, should I play Dark Pit as well? I know their differences already and I've heard you'll want to switch the Pits out for certain matchups and stages. But are they as interchangeable as many say, at least for a low level player like me?
3. Why do you play Pit and/or Dark Pit?
He is underrated, but still definitely mid-tier at best. His aeriels have less lag now, but there are issues with them. They expanded his n-air hitbox (the one I use the most) but it still feels to small for the animation. His aerials also get beat out by a lot of others which doesn't make sense to me since his bow is a sword. The only one with a disjoint that I can consistently rely on is B-air, which still ends up being a trade a lot of the times I hit with it. I also don't get why side-B is still so sloppy. The placement of the invincibility frames is weird asf and I don't feel like it hits hard enough to be so punishable and have so much startup. Lastly, while his kill options have also improved, I think they could use a buff. I think F-smash should have startup mirroring D-smash and F-throw should launch farther. I get the sensation that those things are supposed to be his main kill moves, but because of their weaknesses, I rely on edge-guarding for most of my kills.

You should play both Pits. They're 90% the same, so it's not a hard task. If you just have to be edgy, put Pit in the Fallen Angel costume! I use Pittoo about 60% of the time, but I like using Pit for matchups where I expect really high recoveries, recoveries down and away where I don't want to be bothered going really far down for a n-air, or recoveries that go through my aeriels (Palu's Bow is better in this case). I also find myself killing lighter chars easier by sending them through the roof with Upperdash Arm than off the side with Electroshock. This might just be in my head though idk. Tbh mood factors in too. I'll go for Pit if I want to adjust my attitude or I feel like playing that Legolas-looking alt for some reason.

Anyway, I play them because they're easy. Also, his moves have been coded into my brain since I started playing competitively with Brawl and Pit's who I picked up first. Just a personal limitation, but I haven't been able to get to the point with anyone else where I can just stare at my opponent's char the whole time and not think about where my char is or what inputs I should be pressing.
 

LightKnight

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#7
The Pits definitely seem to have a focus on edguarding as their main source of KOs. Otherwise I've witnessed them consistently KO'ing around 100%-150% which I still don't think is bad as they seem decent at racking up percent but I can understand if most people are antsy to pick up the KO earlier. That said, the Pits range/hitboxes being better would be a welcome buff to further solidify him as a viable character. I'd love better consistency with their side-B's as the invincibility is pretty wack sometimes like you were were saying J.B.
Overall I feel he's in a pretty good place but improving his overall consistency I think would be an excellent way to give him small buffs with significant impact that reward a player with smart and calm under-pressure gameplay.
Similar to Shiek who got a small range buff to F-air which at first doesn't seem significant but greatly benefited her. Coincidentally, Shiek also seems to have a focus on edguarding to net most of her KOs.
 

Kiligar

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#8
Everyone says mid tier at best when it comes to the Pits. Are they saying they could be worse than mid tier? I feel the character is tough to master and thus people underrate them based on their skill level. Pit goes even against Lucina, a top tier. He does not fit within mid tier. One thing that will have you understand Pit’s potential is standing RAR, an instant Bair from a standing position. It really helps Pit gets kills, and takes quite a bit of practice to pull off in the heat of a match. Using many other characters lets you realize how good Pit’s grab combos are, most characters don’t have them. What exactly makes him not able to qualify as a high tier, he takes on Palutena, Ness, Link, and all sorts of oppressive characters without too much trouble. Watch Len, KidG and SnapBack play. Pit has so little skilled representation and is underrated due to that. There are characters that are worse than him, such as Ridley and King Dedede, but they have more, and more skilled representation. I really hope Len returns to Smash U with his surgical Dark Pit.
 

J.B.

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#9
He's underrated for that very reason indeed. I was hoping Earth would come back around or Nairo would have him as a secondary but neither has happened. Tbh the best player I've seen with him is just a local guy that's not much better than I am.

Anyway, when I say "still mid tier at best" I mean he can arguably be at the top of mid tier, but he's definitely not high or top tier. There are too many chars that can do what he does but better and like a lot players say, he's unfairly honest, as funny as that sounds. Like I said, I do really well with him and hold my own against the top players in the region, but I'm sure I'd be doing better if I wasn't trash tier at learning new chars. I think you have a few notable players in similar situations. Like Raito would be a murderer if he put the same amount of genius into someone not a duck and dog.

The boys aren't low or bottom tier though for sure.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#10
I was hoping Earth would come back around or Nairo would have him as a secondary but neither has happened. Tbh the best player I've seen with him is just a local guy that's not much better than I am
I think Earth is still involved with working on Smash Ultimate (testing things out until the dlc season is complete), which would explain why he hasn’t been in tournaments yet
 

LightKnight

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#11
I think Earth is still involved with working on Smash Ultimate (testing things out until the dlc season is complete), which would explain why he hasn’t been in tournaments yet
Oh, I wonder if he is? Been wondering why he hasn't been active in the competitive scene. With Pit actually looking viable to one extent or another I was looking forward to seeing him used.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#12
Oh, I wonder if he is? Been wondering why he hasn't been active in the competitive scene. With Pit actually looking viable to one extent or another I was looking forward to seeing him used.
He, alongside Ranai, 9B, and aMSa, have all been playtesters for Ultimate. Apparently that prohibits them from tourneys...probably because they would know things others wouldn’t, making it a big disadvantage towards their opponents (would’ve been cool to see Pit owning tourneys due to having full knowledge of the game, but that’s just bias)
 

Courageous Baka

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#13
Oh, I wonder if he is? Been wondering why he hasn't been active in the competitive scene. With Pit actually looking viable to one extent or another I was looking forward to seeing him used.
Alright so I made I another thread featuring questions about Pit that I really should have just asked in this one and here was one of them. How good was Earth as a player? Apparently he was THE Pit main in Smash 4. How awesome were his achievements and contributions towards Pit's meta and what was it like having him around? I actually didn't watch many tournaments back when I was trying to get better (Now that's what I call logic!) I stuck to looking at tier lists and trying to learn combos/techs. I hear about Earth a lot among Pit players and how he would wreck this game with Pit if he wasn't taking a break from the competitive scene.
 

TMNTSSB4

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#14
Alright so I made I another thread featuring questions about Pit that I really should have just asked in this one and here was one of them. How good was Earth as a player? Apparently he was THE Pit main in Smash 4. How awesome were his achievements and contributions towards Pit's meta and what was it like having him around? I actually didn't watch many tournaments back when I was trying to get better (Now that's what I call logic!) I stuck to looking at tier lists and trying to learn combos/techs. I hear about Earth a lot among Pit players and how he would wreck this game with Pit if he wasn't taking a break from the competitive scene.
In Brawl and Smash 4, Earth was indeed The Pit player. Had the top placements and everything (also has more tourney victories under his belt than other Pit mains). Even held his own against the likes of ZeRo and beat Nairo’s Dark Pit with his Pit (back when Nairo used the characters)
 
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Kiligar

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#16
Tilts. Even though their tilts aren’t that good bar Down-Tilt, but D-Tilt is just that important.
 
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#17
Tilts. Even though their tilts aren’t that good bar Down-Tilt, but D-Tilt is just that important.
Idk to dash cancel u have to hold down anyway so it comes out p easy already.

With c stick smashes u can run up dash cancel fsmash easier not to mention dsmash which is very important as one of our fastest moves, it can frame trap well sometimes
 

Kiligar

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#18
Idk to dash cancel u have to hold down anyway so it comes out p easy already.

With c stick smashes u can run up dash cancel fsmash easier not to mention dsmash which is very important as one of our fastest moves, it can frame trap well sometimes
I can see reasons why smash stick would be optimal, so go with what suits you best, however, I don’t have problems pulling off my smash attacks bar occasionally up tilting instead of up smashing. Maybe I’ll try out smash stick again.
 

Vistra31

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#20
1. Pit is up there with Mario and Lucina. He's pretty well rounded and honestly I think he's high mid tier.
2. You can probably play both Pit and Dark Pit but I don't. I think because of the Pit skin I use I subliminally get better because I'm used to it and I tried playing with Black&White/Negative colors by changing the settings on my Switch and I didn't play as well.
3. I really like his playstyle and I own all the KI games.
 

NCSU | KAI

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#21
Again, big potential for high skill level players, but lacks the type of kill power that some of the more top tier / meta-relevant characters possess. That being said, his off stage game is really strong, and his frame data is really good too. He kind of lacks the ground and air mobility to get in for kills at high%. That being said, still a really strong character. He has a kill throw, strong projectile, reflector, and side-b for mixup kill options. His skill ceiling is kind of high tbh, wished we saw some more top-level representation.
 

NuNero1

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#22
Pit taught me how to actually "play" the game. It started with Project M/Brawl and translated to Smash Wii U and now Ultimate. Some "official" tier lists have him ranked at D, which I find laughable. He's definitely mid to high tier and a very underrated and under represented character and a darn good well rounder who can hold his own with anyone.
 

Anomika

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#24
I like using up throw starting at mid-high percentages to start juggles with Palutena's bow and / or up air, and punish the landings with up tilt, dash attack, grab or most importantly at KO%, up smash. Upperdash Arm can be a decent punish option but can be predictable.
 
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