Pit and Dark Pit Matchup Chart

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
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#1
:ultpit: arrows are better for gimping, :ultdarkpit:are better for killing. :ultdarkpit: are better onstage, :ultpit: are better offstage and for juggling. Electroshock arm is better than Upperdash arm in most circumstances, particularly near ledge. Here’s my matchup chart for the Pits.
Superior matchups for Pit
:ultpit:::ultbowser::ultfalcon::ultcloud::ultganondorf::ultdiddy::ultdk::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultfox::ulticeclimbers::ultike::ultincineroar::ultlittlemac::ultluigi::ultmario::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultzss::ultbrawler::ultswordfighter::ultness::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultrobinf::ultpokemontrainer::ultroy::ultchrom::ultryu::ultken::ultshulk::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultwiifittrainer::ultzss::ulttoonlink::ultwolf::ultcorrin:
Superior matchups for Dark Pit
:ultdarkpit:::ultalph::ultbayonetta::ultmetaknight::ultbowserjr::ultduckhunt::ultgreninja::ultinkling::ultisabelle::ultjigglypuff::ultjoker::ultkingdedede::ultkrool::ultkirby::ultlink::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultmegaman::ultmewtwo::ultsheik::ultolimar::ultgunner::ultpichu::ultpikachu::ultvillager::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultyoshi::ultsnake::ultsonic::ultwario::ultpacman::ultpalutena::ultgnw::ultpiranha::ultrob::ultridley::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultyounglink:

Feel free to discuss characters placements in the matchup chart. It can always be made more accurate.
 
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LightKnight

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#2
Thanks for making the list.
Could you explain why in most circumstances its better to play Pit over Dark-Pit in edge-guarding situations against bad recovery characters? I get that its safer but could there generally be potentially more benefits if you went offstage with the Pits against most of those same characters?
I'm just curious to hear the reasoning behind it sense I haven't been able to get much experience with the game so far.
 

Kiligar

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#3
Thanks for making the list.
Could you explain why in most circumstances its better to play Pit over Dark-Pit in edge-guarding situations against bad recovery characters? I get that its safer but could there generally be potentially more benefits if you went offstage with the Pits against most of those same characters?
I'm just curious to hear the reasoning behind it sense I haven't been able to get much experience with the game so far.
Pit can safely snipe those characters offstage without the risk of edgegaurding and losing stage control.
 

LightKnight

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#4
Pit can safely snipe those characters offstage without the risk of edgegaurding and losing stage control.
Okay, so pretty much what I was thinking.

In that case, the only character placements I'd question are Falco and Fox. Usually they are predictable when it comes to their recoveries and unless I'm mistaken the Pits should have the aerials to easily enough finish them off. Whereas Pit's arrows might do some work but more often not take them out?
Like I said, I need to get more experience but from what I've seen those two characters really suffer from good edgegaurding, Fox in particular.
 

Kiligar

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#5
Okay, so pretty much what I was thinking.

In that case, the only character placements I'd question are Falco and Fox. Usually they are predictable when it comes to their recoveries and unless I'm mistaken the Pits should have the aerials to easily enough finish them off. Whereas Pit's arrows might do some work but more often not take them out?
Like I said, I need to get more experience but from what I've seen those two characters really suffer from good edgegaurding, Fox in particular.
Arrows can catch their double jump and force them to recover in a position that makes it easier to edgegaurd. Or just simply force them to use their up Special one way or another.
 

LightKnight

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#6
Arrows can catch their double jump and force them to recover in a position that makes it easier to edgegaurd. Or just simply force them to use their up Special one way or another.
Ah, I see, safely set them up possibly for an easy kill if not gimped. I suppose its also better to have the blue arrows in the sense that Fox/Falco can reflect it which isn't a big deal against the blue arrows as oppose to the purple ones.
 

LightKnight

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#7
I'm curious, why do you think Dark-Pit is the best choice for Lucas but not also Ness? Is it because Lucas has a grapple recovery he'll often use? I would think Pit's blue arrows wouldn't even really be worth using against Ness either. Guess I'm not seeing the whole picture?
 

Kiligar

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#8
I'm curious, why do you think Dark-Pit is the best choice for Lucas but not also Ness? Is it because Lucas has a grapple recovery he'll often use? I would think Pit's blue arrows wouldn't even really be worth using against Ness either. Guess I'm not seeing the whole picture?
This grand finals shows why Pit’s arrows are very annoying for Ness. Even if he absorbs them, he loses a bit of height, and can be hit immediately after sometimes. If he tries to PK thunder, he can be sniped until he’s too low. Ness doesn’t gain that much from absorbing Pit’s arrows either. As for Lucas, he’s very hard to gimp, which takes away from Pit arrows, and Dark Pit Electroshock is cheap at the ledge.
 

LightKnight

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#9
This grand finals shows why Pit’s arrows are very annoying for Ness. Even if he absorbs them, he loses a bit of height, and can be hit immediately after sometimes. If he tries to PK thunder, he can be sniped until he’s too low. Ness doesn’t gain that much from absorbing Pit’s arrows either. As for Lucas, he’s very hard to gimp, which takes away from Pit arrows, and Dark Pit Electroshock is cheap at the ledge.
Actually, the other day I think I saw this specific video of their match. It definitely helped me realize some things. Good of you to bring it up. Just wanted further confirmation sense I only ever see Snapback play Pit.
 
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Kiligar

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#10
Actually, the other day I think I saw this specific video of their match. It definitely helped me realize some things. Good of you to bring it up. Just wanted further confirmation sense I only ever see Snapback play Pit.
There are other Pit players, I have a thread for competitive Pit players, but if you’re looking for a very prominent one look at KidG’s Pit. He has so many videos on YouTube. In fact here’s a playlist from my channel with all of them.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL900TwzkPAgddu6z7xkNH1dKJYYboJAb8
 

IPipeYouDown

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#11
:ultpit: arrows are better for gimping, :ultdarkpit:are better for killing. :ultdarkpit: are better onstage, :ultpit: are better offstage and for juggling. Electroshock arm is better than Upperdash arm in most circumstances, particularly near ledge. Here’s my matchup chart for the Pits.
Superior matchups for Pit
:ultpit:::ultbowser::ultfalcon::ultcloud::ultganondorf::ultdiddy::ultdk::ultdoc::ultfalco::ultfox::ulticeclimbers::ultike::ultincineroar::ultlittlemac::ultluigi::ultmario::ultmarth::ultlucina::ultzss::ultbrawler::ultswordfighter::ultness::ultpeach::ultdaisy::ultrobinf::ultpokemontrainer::ultroy::ultchrom::ultryu::ultken::ultshulk::ultsimon::ultrichter::ultwiifittrainer::ultzss::ulttoonlink::ultwolf::ultcorrin:
Superior matchups for Dark Pit
:ultdarkpit:::ultalph::ultbayonetta::ultmetaknight::ultbowserjr::ultduckhunt::ultgreninja::ultinkling::ultisabelle::ultjigglypuff::ultjoker::ultkingdedede::ultkrool::ultkirby::ultlink::ultlucario::ultlucas::ultmegaman::ultmewtwo::ultsheik::ultolimar::ultgunner::ultpichu::ultpikachu::ultvillager::ultzelda::ultsamus::ultdarksamus::ultyoshi::ultsnake::ultsonic::ultwario::ultpacman::ultpalutena::ultgnw::ultpiranha::ultrob::ultridley::ultpit::ultdarkpit::ultyounglink:

Feel free to discuss characters placements in the matchup chart. It can always be made more accurate.
I feel both the Pits have good matchups against heavies,projectile users and any character with below average or exploitable recovery
 
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#12
I noticed Pit doesn't have Zelda in the superior MU list but Dark Pit has. Was that an error (like just forgetting her) or what does Dark Pit has that Pit doesn't have in that MU. Because I would say the stiff arrows of Dark Pit are a advantage for her than the more versatile arrows Pit has.
 

Kiligar

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#13
I noticed Pit doesn't have Zelda in the superior MU list but Dark Pit has. Was that an error (like just forgetting her) or what does Dark Pit has that Pit doesn't have in that MU. Because I would say the stiff arrows of Dark Pit are a advantage for her than the more versatile arrows Pit has.
Zelda can teleport, making gimping her offstage very difficult, which is the main purpose of Pit’s arrows. She’s also very light, making her Eledgetroshock bait, which kills at a little under 60. Dark Pit arrows are faster, which make destroying her Phantom easier. Also if Zelda attempts to recover within the scope of Dark Pit’s Silver Bow range, the arrow is faster and can often interrupt her recovery just in tune, which Pit’s can’t. Gets some nice chip damage and can set up into an edgegaurd. Even if Pit’s do hit, Dark Pit’s have more hitstun and make it easier to snipe her again or edgegaurd, albeit marginally do but it makes a difference.
 

R-senpai

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#15
Shulk definitely doesn't have a bad MU against Pit, this is just plain wrong.
The arrows don't do much, because of the Jump art making it difficult to gimp him for any character.
Shulk has way more range than Pit, so his aerials don't do much.
Shulk just beats Pit in nearly every aspect, he shouldnt be on this list.
 

Vistra31

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#16
Shulk definitely doesn't have a bad MU against Pit, this is just plain wrong.
The arrows don't do much, because of the Jump art making it difficult to gimp him for any character.
Shulk has way more range than Pit, so his aerials don't do much.
Shulk just beats Pit in nearly every aspect, he shouldnt be on this list.
Pit doesn't need arrows to win a matchup. Arrows don't do much anyways except force Shulk to approach.
Jump art cannot always be activated. Pit can easily punish from below anyways. Shulks dair cannot keep him from disadvantage. Pit dash attack can keep him from landing.
More range doesn't mean better. It's also laggier and Pit can easily win with a whiff punish playstyle.
 

R-senpai

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#17
Pit doesn't need arrows to win a matchup. Arrows don't do much anyways except force Shulk to approach.
Jump art cannot always be activated. Pit can easily punish from below anyways. Shulks dair cannot keep him from disadvantage. Pit dash attack can keep him from landing.
More range doesn't mean better. It's also laggier and Pit can easily win with a whiff punish playstyle.
This still doesn't make Pit's Mu against Shulk winning, it should be even at best. Shulk can easily stall out Pit with 3 different arts, and doesn't really have to approach by spacing his aerials well. Shulk doesn't lose this, at all
 

Vistra31

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#18
Shulk definitely doesn't have a bad MU against Pit, this is just plain wrong.
The arrows don't do much, because of the Jump art making it difficult to gimp him for any character.
Shulk has way more range than Pit, so his aerials don't do much.
Shulk just beats Pit in nearly every aspect, he shouldnt be on this list.
Let's see if you can try the reverse first and tell me how this matchup is even at best.
 

R-senpai

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#20
Let's see if you can try the reverse first and tell me how this matchup is even at best.
Just went to Shulk discord server, asked about the match up and even linked the thread.

Here's their answer

"Most people here will choose from Snake, Pikachu and Palu or say they're all even

It's slightly disadvantage for Shulk even if we did lose those MUs though

I only think he loses slightly to Snake and the rest is even or adv for Shulk"


Also
"Those guys don't even have competitive opinions worth acknowledging, a quick look at the thread told me that"
 
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#25
I understand the confusion the reason you think pit beats sholk is because all the sholk players are bad and can't play sholk had an optimal level. But if you look at the frame data if a sholk player played optimally we would lose the match up but because they are bad and can't handle their own character we do just fine because we capitalize on mistakes
 

R-senpai

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#27
That doesn't account for players who don't go to tournaments.
Average Shulk beats Average Pit, you have presented no proof of actual disadvantages Shulk has in this match up. Most Shulks have no trouble with him, hell i asked Nicko and he even says that Shulk wins the matchup.
 
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#28
See this is exactly what I'm talking about the best sholk is Nico. That is sad because quite frankly he just isn't very good at least not at playing his own character optimale. There just isn't any good shoalts to prove how bad the match of is for pit. Also sorry about the typos but you guys know I'm too lazy to fix them especially since I type with my mouth. But frames do not lie like I said because our character is good at punishing mistakes people are confusing that for having a good match up against a character that no one is good with that just is not the case frame wise however cholka is probably our hardest match up
 

R-senpai

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#29
See this is exactly what I'm talking about the best sholk is Nico. That is sad because quite frankly he just isn't very good at least not at playing his own character optimale. There just isn't any good shoalts to prove how bad the match of is for pit. Also sorry about the typos but you guys know I'm too lazy to fix them especially since I type with my mouth. But frames do not lie like I said because our character is good at punishing mistakes people are confusing that for having a good match up against a character that no one is good with that just is not the case frame wise however cholka is probably our hardest match up
Nicko is very good at the game, you're lying. He could be better, yes, but he's good with Shulk. You're acting like he's bad.
 
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#30
Nicko is very good at the game, you're lying. He could be better, yes, but he's good with Shulk. You're acting like he's bad.
LOL I have not lying I just have high standard. And it's like I always say as far as I'm concerned everyone is bad it's just are you less bad than the person you're up against. But no I'm not lying he really isn't all that amazing of a player. He is good in his region but I have yet to see him chape chop 8 at a national level tournament with his character. Of course this isn't just say that trellix has done that recently either I tell him to his face that I think he is bad too LOL because no matter how good you are at the game there is always something you could have done better. But no I don't think that Nico is a good representation of how sholk should be played he could be doing a lot of things better.
 
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