Piranha Plant Matchup Thread

[$.A.F.]

Might as well already have this up so we're ready as soon as he comes out.

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:40/60 besides Palutena and Pikachu, this is one of our worst matchups. We get comboed hard, We Die at like 110-140 because up smash, we get juggled super hard, he has a reflector, amazing frame data and a spike. Here however are some tips: Beat out his side b with nair, jab and ftilt sadly get this clank animation with fox illusion. Get him offstage and you’ll certainly kill him. Call out aerial approaches and jump with Ptooie and nair respectively and up smash if he tries to land on you. And while up smash is very good and kills us early......It’s punishable with f smash on shield. Yep.
:60/40 He's so slow that we can actually zone him out. We actually outspeed him as well. Up Smash kills him at like 100 with di and so does ptooie near ledge meaning we can actually kill him at very reasonable percentages. This doesn't even include edgeguarding which we absolutely maul him at. Seriously, if you just go off and nair, he dies ~20 percent. Also we wreck his disadvantage pretty hard. However, you can't afford to be stupid here. If you get hit by a smash attack at ledge, you're going to die at 50 no matter how heavy plant is. Play this matchup very lame and don't give him the chance to blow you up. Do this and you should have a free dub.
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:50/50 We destroy his recovery. Ptooie is dumb in this matchup as well as Down Special. Keep him offstage and you should be okay. Also we can counter his airgame fairly well with our very good anti airs. Calling out a jump nets you a kill at 90 with up smash. However that is easier said than done. Plant no like big sword and kill power. Can’t do anything crazy edge guarding wise unlike other sword characters, but unlike them, he kills us pretty early. And again, his sword is giant and we die around 100 vs 150.
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:45/55 Projectiles, Bombs, Good spike and huge disjointed hitboxes give Link an advantage. However we still have the ability to edge guard and spike him, pressure with down special and we live really long. Winnable but very tough.
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:45/55 He’s not that fast, cannot edgeguard us that hard we kill him earlier and we can stop him from getting in ok since cape doesn’t have great endlag and it doesn’t angle Ptooie to really hit us. But when he does get in...........we blow up. It’s a free 60. Also fireball actually helps vs Ptooie usage as well. Basically this is hell once he actually gets in but otherwise nothing special.
:45/55 I’m being safe here, but I have this IMO as 60/40. She has better hitboxes, better projectiles, a better spike, better frame data, etc. Bair kills at like 100-130 depending on where you are on screen and we can actually get edge guarded pretty well. You have to be better than your opponent no way around it.
:45/55 I’m being safe here, but I have this IMO as 60/40. She has better hitboxes, better projectiles, a better spike, better frame data, etc. Bair kills at like 100-130 depending on where you are on screen and we can actually get edge guarded pretty well. You have to be better than your opponent no way around it.
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:40/60. I mean, we kill them early? Yeah that’s it. Its basically the Pichu matchup, but we get screwed over hard since his weaknesses with camping and survivability get negated, but he keeps the combo ability and still kills well enough and is hard to hit.
:50/50 We kill them REALLY early. Ptooie messes up a lot of what they want to do. Poison Cloud is actually really good along with Ptooie as well as it makes them play scared since they can’t really commit. He can’t camp us since he damages himself. Also he approaches from the air a lot so we can up smash him at 60-70. However we get comboed pretty badly and he has the kill power to....well actually kill us. Also he’s hard to hit because of his size.
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:60/40 We destroy his recovery. I mean worse than Mac. Three of our specials straight up cancel out the PK thunder itself before it reaches him. Ptooie actually halts the momentum of PKT2 and in general he literally just dies if you throw him offstage. We outrange him, and we kill him early since he’s really light. And if you’re up a stock, you can literally just up b him to the blast zone for a suicide kill any time he’s offstage. The only reason I don’t have this higher is because of Yo Yo at ledge which Plant can actually play around due to the recent nerfs and his numerous aerial stalls he can wait out the hitbox with.
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[$.A.F.]

Alright I’ll start. I’d say the links take a 55:45 or even 60:40. We have no real approach options, get outranged, and they have better approach options. We don’t have much we can do to them. Our only kill option is to get an edge guard since their disjointed wreck our aerials. And of course, we cannot zone them so we have no effective game plan.

 

[Midoriki]

Alright I’ll start. I’d say the links take a 55:45 or even 60:40. We have no real approach options, get outranged, and they have better approach options. We don’t have much we can do to them. Our only kill option is to get an edge guard since their disjointed wreck our aerials. And of course, we cannot zone them so we have no effective game plan.

I'd say the Plant goes even with or beats most zoners, you just have to play kinda campy. You can't approach them well, but they can't approach you well either. Keep your distance and charge side-b in-between shielding ranged moves. Only approach when that is charged so they will take some decent damage even if they beat your approach option. The Plant is heavier than every zoner, so you should do okay in a drawn-out fight and up-throw will kill eventually.

Link specifically might be tough like you say, since the remote bombs are a very good ledge-guarding tool and he has a nasty spike if the plant is forced low. Snake's Nakita is likely trouble too.


The worst match-up imo is Pikachu/Pichu. At least 60:40 if not a lot lot worse. They're hard to hit, can combo the plant for days, recover around our edge-guarding options, and edge-guard us fairly easily.

Any fast character with good combos, a good recovery, and decent edge-guarding is going to give the plant a hard time though. Inkling and Yoshi are also probably 60:40 or worse.

 

[$.A.F.]

I'd say the Plant goes even with or beats most zoners, you just have to play kinda campy. You can't approach them well, but they can't approach you well either. Keep your distance and charge side-b in-between shielding ranged moves. Only approach when that is charged so they will take some decent damage even if they beat your approach option. The Plant is heavier than every zoner, so you should do okay in a drawn-out fight and up-throw will kill eventually.

Link specifically might be tough like you say, since the remote bombs are a very good ledge-guarding tool and he has a nasty spike if the plant is forced low. Snake's Nakita is likely trouble too.


The worst match-up imo is Pikachu/Pichu. At least 60:40 if not a lot lot worse. They're hard to hit, can combo the plant for days, recover around our edge-guarding options, and edge-guard us fairly easily.

Any fast character with good combos, a good recovery, and decent edge-guarding is going to give the plant a hard time though. Inkling and Yoshi are also probably 60:40 or worse.

When you do charge side b, how do you approach? That’s my problem.

 

[Dsull]

he's saying charge it up before you approach.
A charged up sideb is pretty big and will cause the opponent to flee, jump, or shield because it does a TON of damage if you dont. Predict and act accordingly.

 

[$.A.F.]

he's saying charge it up before you approach.
A charged up sideb is pretty big and will cause the opponent to flee, jump, or shield because it does a TON of damage if you dont. Predict and act accordingly.

Thank you!

Any way to deal with the samus matchup?

 

[Crescentium]

From my general experience after playing several rounds with a pretty good Piranha Plant, Plant has an easier time nabbing KO's and shines better on the ground, but Villager can juggle Plant pretty well, wall out Plant with Fair/Bair/Lloyd, and give them hell offstage. I I I think Plant racks up damage faster, but both can rack up damage pretty quickly. Either way, throw in some plant weirdness and pocket shenanigans, and you have yourself a stupidly fun and volatile matchup. Personally, I think it's 55/45 in Villy's favor, but I can see it shift to a 6/4 if people find some silly combo shenanigans with pocketing the spike ball and the poison gas. I've also learned a couple things:

• Piranha Plant's poison gas can straight up pop Villager's (and Isabelle's) balloons with relative ease and send them into free fall since the gas doesn't have knockback (learned all of this the hard way lmfao). This usually happened right near the ledge and sometimes, I could make it back if I was close enough to the ledge, but if I was trying to recover from underneath, I'd fall to my death. Basically, Villager/Isabelle has to be extra careful getting back on stage with Up B. Thankfully, Isabelle can mix up her recovery with her fishing rod and (to some extent) Villager can stall with Lloyd rockets until the gas goes away. I feel like maneuvering around the poison gas when recovering is one of those things Villy/Isabelle players need to keep in the back of their heads lol.
• On the flip side, we can also just pocket the poison gas and use it against Piranha Plant. Time will tell what kind of setups Villy/Isabelle can pull off with pocketed poison, but I'm sure it's damage will be ridiculous. I'm guessing Villy Down Smash into poison might become a thing, but take that with a grain of salt since I don't have Piranha Plant yet.
• Similar deal with pocketing the spike ball. I managed to get it to KO at around 100%, but it can probably KO even earlier like at 60%-70%. There's definitely some combos you can do that can lead into pocket spike ball, but more testing is required.

But yeah, that's just my two cents on it. Feel free to take my two cents with a grain of salt since I only fought one good Plant so far. I also don't have much to say regarding Isabelle since I can't use her to save my life lol. Can't wait to fight more Piranha Plants and maybe even try out Plant for myself, such a fun matchup.

 

[Dsull]

Played Wario thinking i could just eat the spikeball and laugh at the plant's attempts at zoning.

Either wifi is messing with me or thats actually impossible to eat that thing. Why can Wario eat a full charge Samus/Lucario shot but not a spikeball? i thought the angle was messing with it, but i actually had it hit me across the jaw...that should have been eaten

 

[Midoriki]

• Piranha Plant's poison gas can straight up pop Villager's (and Isabelle's) balloons with relative ease and send them into free fall since the gas doesn't have knockback (learned all of this the hard way lmfao). This usually happened right near the ledge and sometimes, I could make it back if I was close enough to the ledge, but if I was trying to recover from underneath, I'd fall to my death. Basically, Villager/Isabelle has to be extra careful getting back on stage with Up B. Thankfully, Isabelle can mix up her recovery with her fishing rod and (to some extent) Villager can stall with Lloyd rockets until the gas goes away. I feel like maneuvering around the poison gas when recovering is one of those things Villy/Isabelle players need to keep in the back of their heads lol..

Thanks for that info! I've had some pretty rough matches against Villager and Isabelle because the pocket is so good against the Plant's kit like you say. Isabelle's rod is also really good against Down-b, which kinda forces the plant to play without specials most of the time x)

In general zoners with reflectors probably have a decent to good matchup against the plant since reflecting the poison makes approaching hard. Zelda especially has given me trouble.

 

[SmashKeks]

Played Wario thinking i could just eat the spikeball and laugh at the plant's attempts at zoning.

Either wifi is messing with me or thats actually impossible to eat that thing. Why can Wario eat a full charge Samus/Lucario shot but not a spikeball? i thought the angle was messing with it, but i actually had it hit me across the jaw...that should have been eaten

One of the PP trailers literally shows Wario eating the ptooie ball, so either that was changed post release, or maybe the ptooie has jank hitboxes.

 

[Doublenickels]

Played Wario thinking i could just eat the spikeball and laugh at the plant's attempts at zoning.

Either wifi is messing with me or thats actually impossible to eat that thing. Why can Wario eat a full charge Samus/Lucario shot but not a spikeball? i thought the angle was messing with it, but i actually had it hit me across the jaw...that should have been eaten

I’ve noticed that as well, both playing as Plant and as Wario. I believe the ptooie hit box is just big and awkwardly shaped, but it can be eaten.

 

[Qualk]

I posted this in my Ike matchup guide regarding the plant:

Piranha Plant – 40/60 Piranha Plant’s favor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6K_HJCUKQ4
The newest addition to the Smash roster is here and he’s pretty good against Ike. He’s very quick in the air; he has a reliable spike, great recovery, a small hitbox, and a fantastic edge-guarding game. Approach the plant with caution, the spiky ball does a whopping 22% damage and will kill you at about 120%+. His poison cloud ability will do damage to you but it has no knockback, and you’ll take more damage if you stay in the center of the cloud. One more note on Piranha Plant, his D-special where he goes into his pipe and then pops out really far in a direction gives him super armor so don’t rush in to punish that. When recovering go high with quick draw so you don’t get hit by the spiky ball of doom. If you have to Aether try to time it so you get your super armor when the spiky ball hits you. Bonus note: Piranha Plant has a distinctly unusual ability in smash, if you footstool a crouching Piranha Plant he will bite you without any input needed from the player. If you get him off-stage Eruption, d-tilts, or short hop Dairs work great at the ledge and you can also fall off Fair since your Fair out-ranges the hitbox of his recovery.

What do you guys think?

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

Any way to deal with the samus matchup?

Samus is a more difficult one to fight, I have a little bit of a easier time fighting them since I main samus so I know what they're going for, but with the plant you either have to be a god with parries or spot dodging OR you out play them; Samus is a floaty character which leaves her vulnerable to aerial combo game and the plant has a decent aerial combo game so use that to your advantage, catch airdodges, rolls, jumps, etc also use dspecial more often in this matchup but make sure you're at max range or you'll get grabbed on startup. Also the smoke with neutralize some of her projectiles so use that and shield after.

 

[JommaBrown]

I think Olimar might be a rough MU for the plant. I faced a pretty good one. He was primarily playing keep away and pelting me with Pikmin, but there was just about nothing I could do to stop him. I beat him once getting some solid reads, but he solidly trounced me most matches. The Pikmin often completely negate Ptooie unless he’s above you. You can use down b to kind of power through them for a hit here and there, but the damage tradeoff isn’t great.

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

I think Olimar might be a rough MU for the plant. I faced a pretty good one. He was primarily playing keep away and pelting me with Pikmin, but there was just about nothing I could do to stop him. I beat him once getting some solid reads, but he solidly trounced me most matches. The Pikmin often completely negate Ptooie unless he’s above you. You can use down b to kind of power through them for a hit here and there, but the damage tradeoff isn’t great.

The way you counter him is to use your poison smoke, the pikmen instantly die if they touch it, making his greatest asset almost useless, even if you get hit with them just stand in the smoke. Also since Olimar is a light character, Neutral B kills at 95%-110% depending where you hit him or where you're positioned on the stag and uthrow also kills at around that percent.

 

[JommaBrown]

The way you counter him is to use your poison smoke, the pikmen instantly die if they touch it, making his greatest asset almost useless, even if you get hit with them just stand in the smoke. Also since Olimar is a light character, Neutral B kills at 95%-110% depending where you hit him or where you're positioned on the stag and uthrow also kills at around that percent.

I tried that, and they passed right through the poison as if nothing happened every single time. And hitting with neutral b isn’t that easy when his pikmin completey stuff it.

 

[Luigifan18]

I tried that, and they passed right through the poison as if nothing happened every single time. And hitting with neutral b isn’t that easy when his pikmin completey stuff it.

Are the Pikmin passing through the cloud White Pikmin?

 

[JommaBrown]

Are the Pikmin passing through the cloud White Pikmin?

Obviously those would, but I have a distinct memory of seeing various colors passing through. Maybe I’m misremembering. Next time I come across an Olimar I’ll try to keep tabs on it more closely.

 

[BlackCephie]

Its hard for me to say, even after a solid week of using the plant. The more things I realize about the character, the weirder things get. Match-ups that I considered very difficult before now seem to be either even or slightly favor plant. For example, after I started abusing down b, there are many matchups that became just straight up easy, especially against zoners.

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

Are the Pikmin passing through the cloud White Pikmin?

They must of did something to him then. On launch you could do it but they must of nerfed it.

 

[$.A.F.]

They must of did something to him then. On launch you could do it but they must of nerfed it.

They actually couldn’t of nerfed it. The only patch we’ve had concerning piranha plant was the same one he was released with.

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

They actually couldn’t of nerfed it. The only patch we’ve had concerning piranha plant was the same one he was released with.

It's weird, it was working perfect during the first week of release, I even put it as a point when I was testing in the lab.

 

[$.A.F.]

If anyone wants to appeal, We can vote on a matchup ratio

 

[Lunardog15]

what about kirby?

 

[$.A.F.]

what about kirby?

I have honestly no Kirby experience regarding Plant. Care to share your opinions?

Updated the matchup ratios! If you think something should be changed, I’m open to well thought out suggestions.

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

Kirby is a weird one, very floaty, can avoid mixups and combo set ups. I haven't fought many Kirby's but the ones I have played a mean aerial game and focused on getting me in the air to begin ladder combo. Only suggestion I have about this is to try catch the Kirby whilst they're falling for a Dair with a NeutralB sometimes hold it and they'll either DownB you, jump around or airdodge, if they air dodge wait till theyre about to land then dash attack and follow up with one of the combos you get off dash. Do the same when they run out of jumps but use poison cloud to cover the airdodge and to create pressure when they land. MAKE THEM PLAY YOUR GAME, this statement is what you need to keep in mind when dealing with alot characters. Overall I think Kirby is a fair matchup but can easily become one-sided if you let your guard down and let them combo your ass back to Planet Popstar. *PSA* I haven't played in a little while so I don't know if they changed things with plant or Kirby but this is what works with aerial kirby's.

what about kirby?

 

[Lunardog15]

Thanks. As some one that mains kirby and pockets plant this is quite helpful

 

[LightSwornSphinx]

Thanks. As some one that mains kirby and pockets plant this is quite helpful

No problem, I also play a fair amount of Kirby so its also off experience

 

[$.A.F.]

Just updated some of the matchup ratios (Changed the ratio on Pichu and description, Changed the description on Pikachu but kept the Ratio, and Gave my thoughts on Ness) what do you think? Also, I think we go even with Olimar. We can play the whole game inside of Poison Cloud since it kills Pikmin, which stops Olimar from being Olimar. Honestly we should win, but he still gets you to like 60 off of 4 hits so he only needs one opening. Thoughts?

 

[Plain Yogurt]

I've never been too comfortable throwing matchup numbers around, but as I've been level grinding a lot with this character online and off I figure I'll post my thoughts from an analytical standpoint:

: Falcon's speed makes building a poison/spike fortress difficult, easily charging through if we're make a wrong move, and his longer limbs are good at stuffing our normals out once he's got us cornered. His taller frame does make it tricky for him to be trapped by Ptooie and Stem Strike if we can manage to catch him, however, and a run off Ptooie can be devastating to his recovery if he isn't careful. Getting stuck on ledge against him is extremely dangerous. Even if you maneuver through DAir, Fair, UTilt, and DTilt on your way to the ledge, fighting through his buttons to reset to neutral is hard.
/: Feels very troublesome to deal with from early impression. Pill/Fireball and Sheet/Cape put approaching pressure on us, and Mario has no qualms with getting up close and personal. Need to perhaps consider using our low crouch more, as this character likes throwing out BAir a lot.
: Seems to be a matter of whether or not DK can get through our wall or not. If DK is sent low off-stage he should at least be eating 1 spike ball, if not a flat-out spike. He can go OUT there if we try to stall with anything though, so caution is needed. His large buttons leave disadvantage difficult, similar to Falcon, though him being less quick makes things a little more bearable. Be on the lookout for Dash Attack as a zone-breaker. It's decently quick, has good range, and can cross-up shield, making it hard to punish effectively. NAir OOS may be our best bet there.
: His awful speed can make it hell for him to catch us, and his bulky model is easy to assault with spike balls. His recovery is also much easier to intercept with Ptooie than Falcon's. If you have him comfortably off-stage, he should be losing a stock if you don't mess up. Don't get complacent though. Like any Ganon match-up, one hit is all he needs to start turning things around.
: Don't be afraid to lame Inkling out. While slippery, she isn't EXTREMELY fast, giving you time to set up a little if you're careful about it. Poison Breath stops Splat Bomb, preventing her main counter-zoning measure, and as long as you keep your eyes open for Roller, it should take quite a bit to KO you. Careful off stage though. Super Jump lets Inkling go OUT there to edge guard. And be sure to keep their BAir's disjoint and safety in mind.
: Stem Strike is crucial in this matchup, as Pocket's generous window and I-Frames makes Ptooie and Poison Breath use risky. Fishing Rod can snatch us out of Stem Strike if she's ready for it, but otherwise it can shoot straight through her pellet shots. Even if she decides to take the offensive, only her FSmash feels particularly scary. Stay calm as you make your way back to neutral, and she should have decent trouble finishing you off.
: I've never fought a campy Joker, but I feel like that would make this matchup quite tough. The windup and strength of our specials make it easy for him to build Persona Meter through Rebel's guard, and even without it Plant's damage output means that if we DO land hits with them we'll be seeing Arsene pretty quickly. With Arsene, Joker becomes everything Plant hates: huge, reasonably quick buttons, a counter/reflector special, and a problematic projectile. Focus on survival, looking for openings, and spewing poison clouds to whittle down his gauge. Make it count if you can get him off-stage: A well-timed Ptooie can intercept Grappling Hook, and it eats Wings of Rebellion alive.
: I don't feel I can agree with the ratio in the OP. While Ness is quite easy to take advantage of off-stage, he out-buttons us heavily once he gets in. His Fair in particular is tough to challenge thanks to it's disjoint, and UAir discourages aggressive landings. Ptooie is effective since he enjoys a leisurely aerial approach, but his strange double jump and his PSI Magnet stalling capabilities allows him to weave around obstacles. In addition, a called-out spike ball can lead to us getting hit with PK Fire or dash attack, which can put us in the air where he wants us.
/: Honestly seems like a nightmare for us. They're very maneuverable with float, which lets them bait out Stem Strike, while Vegetable lets them counter-zone Ptooie solidly. They kind of run over us a bit in disadvantage with their devastating combos, and again how mobile they are in the air can make any sort of reversal difficult. Veggies make coming back to stage a pain as well. I feel I need more experience to put together a stronger game plan, but for right now I've been at a loss when I run into one.
: Feels a lot like Isabelle, except much harder thanks to Bowling Ball and Timber making recovery hell. And of course we still can't use Ptooie or Poison Breath effectively.
: If Wolf didn't have Blaster this fight wouldn't be too bad actually. He isn't very fast, Ptooie and UTilt do an alright job of stuffing his preferred aerial approaches, and as long as you don't get DSmashed (easier said then done, I know), you're living pretty well. Unfortunately, Blaster means he doesn't have to care about that, as he can freely shoot you if you aren't in range to Stem Strike, and if you decide to try doing so, that means he's likely ready for you to do it and is ready to avoid it and start throwing out his huge buttons to punish you. Requires patience and not panicking.
: Ptooie is tough to use in this matchup, as Fire Arrow is fast and has little endlag. Consider a stage with less platforms, as you can instead jump up first to launch spike balls or use Stem Strike from above if he's committed to arrow camping you. Regardless, with his projectiles blocking grounded approaches and his NAir and disjoints discouraging aerial ones, it seems like a tough fight. Our weight is our greatest asset here, but only if we stay calm and avoid panicking right into YLink's kill options.

 

[$.A.F.]

I've never been too comfortable throwing matchup numbers around, but as I've been level grinding a lot with this character online and off I figure I'll post my thoughts from an analytical standpoint:

: Falcon's speed makes building a poison/spike fortress difficult, easily charging through if we're make a wrong move, and his longer limbs are good at stuffing our normals out once he's got us cornered. His taller frame does make it tricky for him to be trapped by Ptooie and Stem Strike if we can manage to catch him, however, and a run off Ptooie can be devastating to his recovery if he isn't careful. Getting stuck on ledge against him is extremely dangerous. Even if you maneuver through DAir, Fair, UTilt, and DTilt on your way to the ledge, fighting through his buttons to reset to neutral is hard.
/: Feels very troublesome to deal with from early impression. Pill/Fireball and Sheet/Cape put approaching pressure on us, and Mario has no qualms with getting up close and personal. Need to perhaps consider using our low crouch more, as this character likes throwing out BAir a lot.
: Seems to be a matter of whether or not DK can get through our wall or not. If DK is sent low off-stage he should at least be eating 1 spike ball, if not a flat-out spike. He can go OUT there if we try to stall with anything though, so caution is needed. His large buttons leave disadvantage difficult, similar to Falcon, though him being less quick makes things a little more bearable. Be on the lookout for Dash Attack as a zone-breaker. It's decently quick, has good range, and can cross-up shield, making it hard to punish effectively. NAir OOS may be our best bet there.
: His awful speed can make it hell for him to catch us, and his bulky model is easy to assault with spike balls. His recovery is also much easier to intercept with Ptooie than Falcon's. If you have him comfortably off-stage, he should be losing a stock if you don't mess up. Don't get complacent though. Like any Ganon match-up, one hit is all he needs to start turning things around.
: Don't be afraid to lame Inkling out. While slippery, she isn't EXTREMELY fast, giving you time to set up a little if you're careful about it. Poison Breath stops Splat Bomb, preventing her main counter-zoning measure, and as long as you keep your eyes open for Roller, it should take quite a bit to KO you. Careful off stage though. Super Jump lets Inkling go OUT there to edge guard. And be sure to keep their BAir's disjoint and safety in mind.
: Stem Strike is crucial in this matchup, as Pocket's generous window and I-Frames makes Ptooie and Poison Breath use risky. Fishing Rod can snatch us out of Stem Strike if she's ready for it, but otherwise it can shoot straight through her pellet shots. Even if she decides to take the offensive, only her FSmash feels particularly scary. Stay calm as you make your way back to neutral, and she should have decent trouble finishing you off.
: I've never fought a campy Joker, but I feel like that would make this matchup quite tough. The windup and strength of our specials make it easy for him to build Persona Meter through Rebel's guard, and even without it Plant's damage output means that if we DO land hits with them we'll be seeing Arsene pretty quickly. With Arsene, Joker becomes everything Plant hates: huge, reasonably quick buttons, a counter/reflector special, and a problematic projectile. Focus on survival, looking for openings, and spewing poison clouds to whittle down his gauge. Make it count if you can get him off-stage: A well-timed Ptooie can intercept Grappling Hook, and it eats Wings of Rebellion alive.
: I don't feel I can agree with the ratio in the OP. While Ness is quite easy to take advantage of off-stage, he out-buttons us heavily once he gets in. His Fair in particular is tough to challenge thanks to it's disjoint, and UAir discourages aggressive landings. Ptooie is effective since he enjoys a leisurely aerial approach, but his strange double jump and his PSI Magnet stalling capabilities allows him to weave around obstacles. In addition, a called-out spike ball can lead to us getting hit with PK Fire or dash attack, which can put us in the air where he wants us.
/: Honestly seems like a nightmare for us. They're very maneuverable with float, which lets them bait out Stem Strike, while Vegetable lets them counter-zone Ptooie solidly. They kind of run over us a bit in disadvantage with their devastating combos, and again how mobile they are in the air can make any sort of reversal difficult. Veggies make coming back to stage a pain as well. I feel I need more experience to put together a stronger game plan, but for right now I've been at a loss when I run into one.
: Feels a lot like Isabelle, except much harder thanks to Bowling Ball and Timber making recovery hell. And of course we still can't use Ptooie or Poison Breath effectively.
: If Wolf didn't have Blaster this fight wouldn't be too bad actually. He isn't very fast, Ptooie and UTilt do an alright job of stuffing his preferred aerial approaches, and as long as you don't get DSmashed (easier said then done, I know), you're living pretty well. Unfortunately, Blaster means he doesn't have to care about that, as he can freely shoot you if you aren't in range to Stem Strike, and if you decide to try doing so, that means he's likely ready for you to do it and is ready to avoid it and start throwing out his huge buttons to punish you. Requires patience and not panicking.
: Ptooie is tough to use in this matchup, as Fire Arrow is fast and has little endlag. Consider a stage with less platforms, as you can instead jump up first to launch spike balls or use Stem Strike from above if he's committed to arrow camping you. Regardless, with his projectiles blocking grounded approaches and his NAir and disjoints discouraging aerial ones, it seems like a tough fight. Our weight is our greatest asset here, but only if we stay calm and avoid panicking right into YLink's kill options.

Thank you! Finally some information! This thread has been dead forever. With ness fair though, back air actually does very well against it plugging a rather large hole. Also, dash attack and pk Fire only really get you so far in the air at low percentages. It isn’t end time usually to get out a pk thunder because for a projectile it isn’t crazy fast in travel speed (thank Jesus) and it’s frame 20 just to get out. This means he has to use his aerials to juggle us until rather high percentages which we can escape with Ptooie since if we get hit while suspending it it hits him. At higher percentages though juggling becomes a huge problem because of PKT. However we can juggle him as well with up air Ptooie and even Long Stem surprisingly. Also DJ is actually pretty slow. Weird, strange, unorthodox, but pretty slow. However PSI stalling is a problem sometimes. Fairly enough however I’m going to lower that to 60/40. After some discussion with Ness mains as well as your good points, I realize I was definitely overrating Plant here.

 

[$.A.F.]

I have just updated the ratios for Ness and Ike to 60/40 and 45/55 respectively in lieu of new information. Please quote this if you object.

 

[DVDi]

After playing both sides of the match up, I think absolutely stomps .

Getting in as Mario has never felt easier for me and once you do get in, plant gets combo'd super hard. Additionally, cape nearly completely shuts down poison play and mario can get around ptooie quite well due to his decent speed.

Can't really think of a way for plant to do much in this match up sadly.

 

[$.A.F.]

Just updated the Ganondorf matchup after asking around discord and the board. Let me know if you disagree with any ratios and I'll hear you out.

After playing both sides of the match up, I think absolutely stomps .

Getting in as Mario has never felt easier for me and once you do get in, plant gets combo'd super hard. Additionally, cape nearly completely shuts down poison play and mario can get around ptooie quite well due to his decent speed.

Can't really think of a way for plant to do much in this match up sadly.

Haven't played against an amazing Mario yet. Not many in MD/VA that I know of. But honestly, I don't think we get absolutely stomped even if we do lose. While we don't do it as hard, we still bust him in disadvantage and we live on average longer than he will per stock. However like you said, that kind of gets negated when two grabs make you "start" at a good 60 percent higher than him. Still it's something to note. Ptooie and nair offstage are also pretty nice. You kind of have to play it slow to really do well in this matchup, very defensive. It contains a lot of reads on the part of Plant and we can actually punish him well enough off a read. Still, we do lose.

 

[Plain Yogurt]

Ganondorf sounds about right. Hardly free, and he can kill us quite quickly, but he has to come to us. A large frame and slow movement is begging to get riddled with spike balls.

Not many in MD/VA that I know of.

Oh neat I’m MDVA too.

There’s a Mario that sometimes comes to Smashtora, but I haven’t played him myself. That matchup does seems tough from the dudes I’ve fought online tho.

 

[$.A.F.]

So I updated the matchup ratios for Mario and Fox, two bad matchups of ours. Do y’all think that the rankings our fair? Don’t be afraid to @ me if you disagree with anything listed.

I posted this in my Ike matchup guide regarding the plant:

Piranha Plant – 40/60 Piranha Plant’s favor - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6K_HJCUKQ4
The newest addition to the Smash roster is here and he’s pretty good against Ike. He’s very quick in the air; he has a reliable spike, great recovery, a small hitbox, and a fantastic edge-guarding game. Approach the plant with caution, the spiky ball does a whopping 22% damage and will kill you at about 120%+. His poison cloud ability will do damage to you but it has no knockback, and you’ll take more damage if you stay in the center of the cloud. One more note on Piranha Plant, his D-special where he goes into his pipe and then pops out really far in a direction gives him super armor so don’t rush in to punish that. When recovering go high with quick draw so you don’t get hit by the spiky ball of doom. If you have to Aether try to time it so you get your super armor when the spiky ball hits you. Bonus note: Piranha Plant has a distinctly unusual ability in smash, if you footstool a crouching Piranha Plant he will bite you without any input needed from the player. If you get him off-stage Eruption, d-tilts, or short hop Dairs work great at the ledge and you can also fall off Fair since your Fair out-ranges the hitbox of his recovery.

What do you guys think?

We’re actually pretty slow in the air and our spike is known for unreliability even though it’s super quick. Also we can’t really land a grab to toss you offstage since your landing nair is safe on block and makes up a lot of your gameplan. Also you outrange us. However some good news for us is that Ptooie is a great anti air and we can call out jump with our frame 11 up smash which kills at ~90. I’d lower it to around 50/50 or slightly in the favor of one.

 

[Qualk]

So I updated the matchup ratios for Mario and Fox, two bad matchups of ours. Do y’all think that the rankings our fair? Don’t be afraid to @ me if you disagree with anything listed.
We’re actually pretty slow in the air and our spike is known for unreliability even though it’s super quick. Also we can’t really land a grab to toss you offstage since your landing nair is safe on block and makes up a lot of your gameplan. Also you outrange us. However some good news for us is that Ptooie is a great anti air and we can call out jump with our frame 11 up smash which kills at ~90. I’d lower it to around 50/50 or slightly in the favor of one.

Good points thanks for the feedback! I decided to change the ratio to 50/50 and I made some changes to the writeup.

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-ultimate-ike-matchup-guide-joker-added.475260/#post-22982826

 

[Midoriki]

Good points thanks for the feedback! I decided to change the ratio to 50/50 and I made some changes to the writeup.

Strong agree to the statement "When recovering go high with quick draw so you don’t get hit by the spiky ball of doom." run off Ptooie is a very effective ledge guard against low recoveries from Ike. In comparison Chrom who gets neither quick draw or a hitbox on the way up on up-B gets ledge guarded very hard by the Plant, I'd probably put that as 55-45 or maybe even 60-40 in plants favor against Chrom.

 

[$.A.F.]

Strong agree to the statement "When recovering go high with quick draw so you don’t get hit by the spiky ball of doom." run off Ptooie is a very effective ledge guard against low recoveries from Ike. In comparison Chrom who gets neither quick draw or a hitbox on the way up on up-B gets ledge guarded very hard by the Plant, I'd probably put that as 55-45 or maybe even 60-40 in plants favor against Chrom.

Other than edge guarding I’d like to remember that Plant can zone him since he lacks any sort of projectiles even if he is fast. Also we can semi stuff his aerial approaches due to our great anti airs in up smash, up tilt, and Ptooie. And his lack of a (reliable) spike significantly hinders his edgeguarding against us going low. I wouldn’t say 60/40 though because he can kill us unlike a marthcina, and we get outranged if not to the extent of Ike.

 

[$.A.F.]

I honestly think Puff might be 70/30. How is she supposed to beat us? No seriously how? We literally invalidate her in the air. She has no answer to Ptooie. We can actually edgeguard her. We kill her early and live forever. Her range is even stubbier than ours. Bair kills at 85. Honestly how does she win this at all? How stupid does the Plant have to be to lose?