Phantom Displacement - New Tech

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#1
At some point during Phantom's charge startup, the game checks if it is touching a surface like the platform or stage. If it is, then the game will lock Phantom to that surface regardless of where Zelda travels while charging it. There are four ways to execute this tech that I and others have found.

Jump-cancel:
It's either during jumpsquat or shortly after, if you down-b, you will complete your jump while Phantom is made on the ground you leapt from. You are able to change the direction you jump while charging.

Platform Drop: Same timing, but with a ledgedrop instead of a jump. Phantom will remain on the platform while you fall through it. Can be used for setups (kick into Phantom, dash attack into Phantom, etc.)

Drive-by Displacement:
While falling past a platform or ledge, if you are positioned so that there is a platform or ledge right behind Zelda, Phantom can be created on said platform while you fall past it. It's great for edgeguards or setups like the Phantom Drop.

This fourth application is absolutely mandatory for us to learn, as it makes Phantom in neutral safe against projectiles...and in general.


Example:

I have decided to let you all in on this, since I don't have as much time for labbing as I would like. Let's break this down!
 
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#3
I really wanna see the IRP (Instant Reverse Phantom) used at a high level. I feel like this tech could really push Zelda to new heights
 

channel_KYX

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#4
Great thread, thanks for sharing.
I really wanna see the IRP (Instant Reverse Phantom) used at a high level. I feel like this tech could really push Zelda to new heights
While you are most likely not wrong, remember that there are techs found for other characters as well.
 

.json

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#5
Does anyone have any tips for performing the IRP? Ive been trying to practice but havn't gotten it down consistently. I tried to lab out the windows for when you can perform the inputs and it seems very tight. From what Ive seen:

Window between c-stick and Jump+down: 1-2 frames
Window between Jump+down and special: 1-3 frames.

If you're late on the jump+down input (3 frames) then you wont turn around. The knight will be displaced the wrong way
If you're late on the special input (4 frames) then you perform the dair.
 
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veggy

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#6
to .json:

I've been able to do the IRP pretty consistently by mapping jump and special to my right-hand trigger buttons on pro controller. So RZ is jump and RT is special, with everything else normal. That way I can use my index and middle finger on both shoulder buttons leaving my thumb on the c-stick the entire time. On Gamecube controllers I claw grip, with index on Y, and map Z to special so that the fingers use the same ordering for both gamecube and pro controllers.

The disadvantage is that you only have one shield button meaning you can't do the hold-two-shield-buttons macro to move your shield around. But I think that being able to easily do IRP is more valuable for zelda so I live with it.
 

.json

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#9
Ok, ive finally been able to start doing it more consistently. What works best for me is having L mapped to jump and R mapped to special rather than the other way around like it was shown in the vid by My Smash Corner. This way its easer to input jump and down on the control stick at the same time.
 

Katy Parry

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#10
Okay, y'all just need to switch to the pro controller.

You can slide from X to B while you just focus on the input of directions.
What I do is this
Forward (direction you're facing)
Backward
Roll from backWard to down, and as you are rolling, you slide from x to b, and make sure you are pressing B when you input down at the same time.

The thing is, you don't have to hard commit to the directions. You can get away with tilting all of this.

This tech is very good against projectitle heavy characters, characters like wolf. The phantoms shield will eat ANY attack but it has some downsides:

Projectiles that pass through phantom will still punish you. Like Simon's holy Cross.

When you do the instant reverse phantom, you're giving up space and therefore stage control.

If your opponent jumps ontop of you, he will be able to hit you through the phantom. It might clang, but their hitbox will NOT be cancelled out!!!! the only viable option after doing an IRDP is shielding, if they jump and are coming for you.

That's why the normal displaced phantom is better imo because Zelda needs to approach in most of her troublesome matchups. You can leave the phantom behind you and continue moving forward, so that way you're in a much better position to use the phantom to your advantage. You can also cover your approach by releasing the phantom early. It will be right on top of your body, which is good for baiting someone to attack you, which at that point you can be shielding.
 

.json

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#11
Ok I think I've discovered by far the easiest way to do the phantom displacement, both forwards and reverse. Its similar to ophilias method above but even easier. I'm doing this on a gamecube controller with special mapped to R but theres definitely other control schemes that will work.

Forward Displaced Phantom:
- Dash Forward
- Down on Control Stick + Jump + A
- Special (within the 3 frame jump squat from the last input)

Reverse Displaced Phantom:
- Dash Backwards (Opposite direction of where you want the phantom to go)
- Forwards on Control Stick + Jump + A
- Down on Control Stick + Special (within the 3 frame jump squat from the last input)

This works well for a couple of reasons:
1. You can keep holding down Jump + A as you input special. When you use the method ophilia was describing where you don't press A, you have to release jump before you input special, or else the knight will keep following you as you jump.

2. You can "cheat" on the reverse phantom by flicking forwards at a 45 degree downard angle. Then its easier to roll it down for when you input special.

3. If you mess up, you normally get still get a phantom, but just not displaced. When I don't do the reverse phantom crisp enough, I still get a phantom in the correct direction, but its normally just not blocking me all the way. By far the most frustrating thing about doing the IRPs in the way from the original video is when you mess up and get a dair, phantom the wrong direction, or side-B. This also feels way more natural to do than the original video.
 

daddypeach

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#12
So I was practicing this technique and it seems like at least in 4.0 that cancelling the dair is not even necessary. If you RAR phantom quickly enough, your phantom will be displaced as much as you could ever want. Difficult to get consistent but not difficult to achieve in training room.

Edit: the trick to displacing phantom is
1: make sure you have a running start
2: jump as soon as you turn around so you still have momentum in the direction of your run
3: use phantom immediately (before your jump frames end)

I just slide my finger from y to b. Easy enough with default settings but it will earn you a callus if you don't already have one
 
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StoicPhantom

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#13
So I was practicing this technique and it seems like at least in 4.0 that cancelling the dair is not even necessary. If you RAR phantom quickly enough, your phantom will be displaced as much as you could ever want. Difficult to get consistent but not difficult to achieve in training room.

Edit: the trick to displacing phantom is
1: make sure you have a running start
2: jump as soon as you turn around so you still have momentum in the direction of your run
3: use phantom immediately (before your jump frames end)

I just slide my finger from y to b. Easy enough with default settings but it will earn you a callus if you don't already have one
IMO, the normal way (without the macro) of just short hop RARing into Phantom is the easiest and most custom configure friendly. I just do a normal RAR from a standing position and do the Y+B slide thing you mentioned. No Dair cancel or anything. You should try the platform version, I meant to explore that, but ended up pushing to the side for other things. There is potential for combo extensions and trapping the landings of difficult to trap characters like Palutena.
 

Katy Parry

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#14
So something I discovered a while back with Zelda is a tech I’ve named Phantom Slide. You can input Phantom during an instant ledge grab from stage and Zelda will place the Phantom on the ledge or platform behind her while falling. Here’s some examples of it:

https://twitter.com/katyparries/status/1182540971873046528?s=21
 

BunnyChuChu

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#15
Okay, y'all just need to switch to the pro controller.

You can slide from X to B while you just focus on the input of directions.
What I do is this
Forward (direction you're facing)
Backward
Roll from backWard to down, and as you are rolling, you slide from x to b, and make sure you are pressing B when you input down at the same time.

The thing is, you don't have to hard commit to the directions. You can get away with tilting all of this.

This tech is very good against projectitle heavy characters, characters like wolf. The phantoms shield will eat ANY attack but it has some downsides:

Projectiles that pass through phantom will still punish you. Like Simon's holy Cross.

When you do the instant reverse phantom, you're giving up space and therefore stage control.

If your opponent jumps ontop of you, he will be able to hit you through the phantom. It might clang, but their hitbox will NOT be cancelled out!!!! the only viable option after doing an IRDP is shielding, if they jump and are coming for you.

That's why the normal displaced phantom is better imo because Zelda needs to approach in most of her troublesome matchups. You can leave the phantom behind you and continue moving forward, so that way you're in a much better position to use the phantom to your advantage. You can also cover your approach by releasing the phantom early. It will be right on top of your body, which is good for baiting someone to attack you, which at that point you can be shielding.
This is how I do it. It's a very fast input of using the left stick to press back and circling down and then a little bit past down (towards forward) for reversing the attacks direction, while simultaneously sliding right thumb across jump and B.

I'd say I'm about 90% consistent. The cool thing is even if you don't get it perfectly and zelda is standing where her head pokes up over the phantoms shield, you will still be protected perfectly (excluding explosives).
 

Mayje

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#16
GOD$%&!! MOTHER*&$@$!!!!! $&#@IN PIECE OF $&^@!!!! I'm going to kill everyone around me and then myself before I ever get this @#$^%&# technique! I've been practicing like a madman for hours using every method I can find and it isn't working. $&%# THIS!!!
 

daddypeach

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#17
GOD$%&!! MOTHER*&$@$!!!!! $&#@IN PIECE OF $&^@!!!! I'm going to kill everyone around me and then myself before I ever get this @#$^%&# technique! I've been practicing like a madman for hours using every method I can find and it isn't working. $&%# THIS!!!
Try it frame by frame in training mode.

Frame 1 & 2: Dash-back
Frame 3: jump
Frame 4: press down-forward and b

Those are your bare minimum inputs. You can experiment with the timing yourself. There's a lot of forgiveness in the technique if your inputs are clean and minimal.
 
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Mayje

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#18
Try it frame by frame in training mode.

Frame 1 & 2: Dash-back
Frame 3: jump
Frame 4: press down-forward and b

Those are your bare minimum inputs. You can experiment with the timing yourself. There's a lot of forgiveness in the technique if your inputs are clean and minimal.
Ahhh, at best I'm only getting a partial displacement. Zelda is still too far out in front of the shield to deflect projectiles. I can't do that frame by frame stuff, it's complicated and I don't understand how it works. I tried it in the slowest of slow motion cameras but I can't get the inputs right, so I just give up. Thanks anyway.
 

daddypeach

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#19
Ahhh, at best I'm only getting a partial displacement. Zelda is still too far out in front of the shield to deflect projectiles. I can't do that frame by frame stuff, it's complicated and I don't understand how it works. I tried it in the slowest of slow motion cameras but I can't get the inputs right, so I just give up. Thanks anyway.
Frame by frame is simple if you look at it this way:

1. Turn it on
2. Hold LZ and don't let go
3. Let go of LZ
4. Hold jump
5. Tap LZ to move forward one frame

Just count. How many frames is Zelda touching the ground before she is in the air?

You can always let go of LZ to freeze everything. Then you can hold any button down and tap LZ to move forward one frame. Then you can let go of a button input or add another input as you want, and just watch what happens when you press this button on what frame.
 

Mayje

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#20
SO...I finally figured out the method that works for me...I just switched my C stick to do specials and, using a pro controller, I do the short hop RAR and slide my thumb quickly from Y to down C and I consistently end up well behind the phantom's shield. I know having C stick set to special isn't the most optimal setup because I'm not great at doing tilt attacks without it, but I think this might work best for me. It's the most forgiving method I've found and requires the least amount of coordination in comparison to some of the other methods. I think this will actually work out.
 
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