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Guide PH3AR TEH PHIR3: A Roy Guide

exarch

doot doot doot
Joined
Feb 15, 2005
Messages
3,333
Location
Usually not playing Brawl. Location: Enterprise
Ph3ar it!! Ph33r 17!!

I needed something to do for my 2000th post, and an updated Roy guide was the one thing which never happened, so here it is, post mortem.

Before beginning this guide we need to get some things straight.
First things first: Roy is a bad character, decidedly worse than Marth.
Also:
Lol, i swear, we could just get a huge quote of Exarch saying "Fsmash more" and me saying "Dtilt/Dashdance->DED more", and all the advice threads ever created in these roy forums would be covered for eternity.
And lastly, and most importantly: Hitting an opponent with the following moves will cause them to catch fire: Upsmash, Blazer, FlareBlade, 3rd hit of DED down, all 4th hits of DED and Counter.

As always you can communicate with me via PM or me and Sethlon specifically about Roy in this thread. This thread is specifically intended for www.smashboards.com, and before copying this to any other site, please make sure to ask me and give me and smashboards credit. Otherwise I don't mind at all. Free information is the wonder of the internet.

Contents
  • Preface/Shameless Plug
  • Contents
  • Intro to this Guide
  • Pros and Cons
  • Roy Basics
    • Offense
    • Defense
    • Edgeguarding
    • Recovery
  • Roy Advanced
    • General Counters to AntiRoy strats
    • Platform Play
    • Punishment
  • Roy’s Levels
  • Character Specific
  • Closing Thoughts
Intro to this Guide

This Guide is NOT intended to help anyone understand the slang terms used around these forums. If there is any term which is not understood but used in this guide, it can more than likely be found in this thread. Also this will not be enumerating all of Roy’s moves, nor listing the damage given by each. Those specifics can be checked by anyone who owns this game, by trying it out for themselves.

Some other Roy useful Roy threads will be listed as this Guide progresses, specifically in the Character Specific section, but here is a link to the old Roy guide, which contains much basic information (like terminology, an evaluation of Roy’s entire moveset, percentage done, etc.) not included in this guide. Most of the applicable information from that guide is in this one, and I hope this will serve overall as a more advanced type of guide, giving more useful tips for playing Roy.

One last general note on smash and Roy. All of Roy’s moves have uses, if you do not see the uses listed in this guide does not imply the move is worthless. Always experiement, and you’ll develop your own playstyle as time goes on. Also, there are no set combos in smash (excepting perhaps CG’s), eventually you’ll gain an idea of what moves link best for Roy and you’ll be able to improvise things on your own.

Pros and Cons

Pros:
  • Great DD and WD
  • 4th Fastest falling Character in the game=>difficult to kill off the top
  • Combining the above two makes him very maneuverable
  • Sweet Fsmash
  • Shine knocks him over
  • Makes BONK noises when getting hit hard
  • Teh phir3
Cons:
  • Longest stun time in the game makes him easy to combo
  • Aerials have little knockback and stun time
  • Lacks combos
  • Poor Recovery
  • Easily CCed
  • No safe approach on Shield
  • Bad damage payout
  • etc
Roy Basics

Offense
The idea in this section is to highlight Roy’s best offensive moves. This will not be a listing of damage payouts, rather it will be detailing general use and application of Roy’s best offensive moves. If you’re looking for frame data, check out SDM’s frame data for Roy. Comboing, finishing, and overall evaluation of the move will be covered.
  • Dtilt-Perhaps Roy’s best move. It’s fast, disjointed (like the rest of his moves), combos amazingly well, does decent damage and is one of Roy’s best ways to respond when CCing. This move cannot be used too much. Use this to poke at people’s shields outside of grab range. Also if used quickly enough (lasts 20 frames under IASA time) it had a tendency to hit SGers who aren’t fast enough. Combo with this into grabs, Fsmash, DED, Aerials, you name it.
  • Fsmash-Roy’s amazing finisher. Does 20%, which is super handy for a character whose damage pay out is so garbage. As long as you hit with it, it cannot be used too much. My favorite advice to Roy players is “Fsmash more. Accurately.”
  • Grab-Roy has incredible grab range, slightly less than Marth’s, and still more than Yoshi. His throws aren’t very good for comboing, but he does have a nice 0-death CG on Fox and Falco, and Dthrow can lead to Fsmash against characters who DI it wrong depending on percents. The most use you can typically get out of grabs is tech chasing and grab attacks. His throws do very little damage, but uthrow is a useful kill move when you can’t find any others. Starts killing most characters around 160. Don’t forget to CC grab.
  • Nair-My favorite Roy aerial. Excellent as a crossup, does decent damage, really fun to ledgehop, good combo potential, and his best aerial for taking people onto platforms. Very useful in intercepting people out of the air, as it has huge range in front of Roy and has the longest duration of his hitboxes for aerials. If you land it, chase after the opponent hard, and you can typically get a followup. The first hit of nair can be used similarly to a jab reset, and if fastfalled quickly enough, the first hit will be the only one to come out.
  • Fair-2nd favorite Roy aerial. Very useful for attacking opponents in front of Roy, and great for coming off of platforms. Most combo potential when used right at the end of his SH, but some more floaty characters can be juggled at a certain height by repeated shuffled fairs (Peach, Zelda, and the like.)
  • Uair-Another highly useful Roy aerial. This has great combo potential on every character (except jiggs and samus types), if you can get them above you. The tippers for this move has almost 0 stun time, so it is vital to hit with the middle of the blade, which is seemingly harder to do than most other Roy moves. Useful to combo into Fsmash, and also a useful crossup, as it is much easier to sweetspot when landing with Roy’s back to someone.
  • Dair-Situational Roy aerial. A very strange move, but it has many uses. After Dtilts, Roy can use this move to spike the opponent back into the ground and continue comboing. The spiking part of the move seemingly is in the middle of Roy as he uses it. The middle part of the blade has strange knockback which pushes the opponent forward, and by chasing, can continue combos. The tipper area has much more stun time than that of uair’s, and can combo into fsmash at higher percents than uair.
  • DED-Aka the OverB. Arguably Roy’s best move, and is extraordinarily useful. The huge disjointed hitbox of the first hit can be used to outprioritize most approaches from most characters. The 3rd over hit is a reliable KO move against FFers when Fsmash fails, and can be comboed into with OUO (over, up, over) or OOO
    The 3rd down hit is great against CCers and SGers, and does decent damage. (plus has fire!)
    The 3rd up hit is a spike and will antispike if the opponent is grounded, thereby comboing into any of the 4th hits.
    The 4th over hit is probably the worst option of the 3 4th hits, but can be used to surprise people.
    The 4th down hit shield pokes a LOT, and has a tendency to catch people off guard with its large forward range and duration. Also does decent damage, and tends to knock CCers over.
    The 4th up hit is my most used of these three, as it has huge upwards range and amazing knockback. It also has a large tendency to shield poke unsuspecting victims, and therefore amounts to large knockback and no DI.
  • FlareBlade-Roys “aerial” with the most knockback. If Roy’s looking to knock someone off the stage with an aerial, this is the way to go. Little damage though, but surprising most of the time. Highly useful, but not incredible.
Defense
Similar to the section above, this will analyze Roy’s general defensive strategies. Again, if you’re looking for frame data check out SDM’s frame data for Roy.
  • DD-As mentioned previously, Roy has an awesome DD. As such, one of his most reliable forms of dodging attacks is to DD around them. Roy can easily DD into his DED or a JCed grab. Also of note is Roy’s pivot. Since his DD is so good, he can pivot into scary attacks like fsmash and take large advantage of his opponent.
  • WD-Simlar to the DD, the WD is just a slight moving backwards or forwards with Roy. It effectively the same thing as a pivot, but is much easier and takes slightly longer to do.
  • Spotdodge-Roy’s spotdodge is pretty terrible. Most characters can have an attack spotdodged (like their grab) and throw out another attack (grab again) while Roy is still recovering from his first spotdodge. However it does have its applications, so is not to be forgotten.
  • Roll-Better than Roy’s spotdodge, but still pretty terrible. It is verry slow, but has decent length to it, so it’s slightly harder to punish. Not something to be spammed, but useful when needed.
  • CC-Roy has a pretty awesome CC game. His CC dtilt, CC grab, and CC dsmash are all very quick and are useful for comboing, dealing with shielders, and punishing, in that order. He can of course CC into any other move (like fsmash or counter), but these are the highlights. I personally use CC fsmash more than CC dsmash, but dsmash is decidedly faster.
  • DED-Again as mentioned in the previous section, Roy’s DED is great for outprioritizing approaches. Much of his defensive strategy revolves around just being able to hit people out of their approaches with the first hit of DED, then following up with a grab, dtilt, or the more of the DED.
Edgeguarding
Roy’s edgeguarding is pretty sweet. He kills many characters outright at very low percents if they are in a poor position off the edge. Of course more than these moves can be used for edgeguarding, he has a couple of (poor) spikes and one could time a 4th DED move instead. Unfortunately, much of Roy’s edgeguarding takes a while to be effective, and makes certain methods of edgeguarding impossible in teams.
  • Fsmash-An amazing edgeguard. The strong hit of the blade has a lot of range on his fsmash, and can outrange Marth’s upb when properly spaced. This is his best choice most of the time when he doesn’t have time to charge up a flareblade. Probably Roy’s best edgeguard in teams.
  • FlareBlade-Roy’s best edgeguarding killer in singles. Once an opponent is off the stage, he should space so the tip of the flareblade hangs over the edge, and charge it for as long as possible (assuming he has ample time to do so). This is very difficult to ledgetech, and has fantastic results when charged for a long time. Flareblade can also be used off the edge to push an opponent further out. Unfortunately, it is a poor edgeguard in teams because beginning to charge it usually draws the other teammate over for assistance immediately.
  • Counter-A great edgeguard against certain characters. Most specifically, Fox and Falco’s Upb. When they are below the ledge, Roy should walk to it and counter so to get hit by the Upb. This kills both characters at extraordinarily low percents (teens and twentys) Also can be used to intercept high firefoxes/birds, by jumping out after them and countering. Useful against anyone with a strong Upb (Fox, Falco, Marth at high percents, etc.)
  • Dtilt-Against certain characters, a hitbox will appear around them during their upb, making Flareblade and Fsmash out of the question. To these (specifically Ylink, Link, and DK?), Roy can tipper a dtilt through their upbs. The CCing nature of the dtilt works in Roy’s advantage, as well as being shorter than normal. Upon tippering the dtilt, Roy can walk forward and Fsmash, or jump out with a flareblade. Also can be used in the same manner without tippering.
  • Edgehog-Never should be forgotten, a good edgehog can take a stock at any percent. Also highly necessary to make people land on the level. Roy can use the ledge invulnerability to edgehog, rollup/get up->fsmash against sheik, or ledgehop an invulnerable flareblade to catch Mario or Doc (for example) out of their upb’s. These can be used against anyone with lag on their upb’s, from Marth to Roy himself.
Recovery
There are several methods of recovering with Roy; none are universally accepted as the best method. I will mention the two basic ideas, and evaluate the advantages of each. Obviously this will be a biased section, because I would obviously think my method of recovery is the best out of them. At then end of this section, I’ll briefly cover Roy’s edgegame, which is also part of recovery.
  • The “Marth” method of recovery-This is my method of recovering, and is merely an adaptation of Marth’s best method of recovering to Roy. For this I use my overb almost immediately and save my second jump until I am below the edge (like Marth should almost every time he recovers.) From this position I attempt to sweetspot the edge with Upb, and will do everything in my power to get the sweetspot rather than land on the stage.
    • Disadvantage-If the opponent chases you way off the stage you can do very little to stop him from killing you. Roy can overb again to stop them, or 2nd jump and flareblade/fair, but otherwise has little response. However, Roy has this problem in general, but it is more amplified with this method.
    • Advantage-It becomes almost impossible to easily edgeguard Roy from the level. Many opponents will attempt to edgehog Roy, and get up early to punish his lag from landing on the level, however by waiting for them to get up with his 2nd jump or recovering slightly higher with Upb, Roy can wait out their edgehog and safely grab the edge.
  • The other method of recovery-This method is the other major method of recovering, and the major difference is Roy uses his second jump immediately. He can then use Overb whenever he wishes, and Blazer or Airdodge to make it back to the stage if he’s close enough.
    • Disadvantage-It puts Roy in poor position against an opponent on the stage. It betrays his possible recovery distance sooner than the alternative, and can leave him open to projectile attacks or chases. However many of these can be swatted with overb, or with another move, which he can use because he maintains height with this method. This method oftentimes forces Roy onto the stage, and he is more often than not killed for the lag on his Upb.
    • Advantage-Roy gains his airdodge as a possible method of recovery, which he cannot use when he is below the stage. He can also vary his Upb more to possibly land on a platform. Also immediately using the 2nd jump immediately changes his momentum, which in theory may cause him to gain a slightly longer distance when recovering.
  • Roy’s Edgegame-By this term I mean getting back onto the stage from hanging onto the edge. Roy’s edgegame is actually quite good, (well I main peach, so everyone’s edgegame is good in comparison). His short second jump allows him to hit the level very quickly after ledgehopping, and his speed up and down in the air allows him to maintain invulnerability briefly when ledgehopping as well.
    • Ledgehops-The following are useful moves to ledgehop with Roy: Flare Blade, Fair, Nair (both hits come out if you’re fast enough), and counter.
    • LedgeWD’s-This small variation on the Ledgehop is also very useful for Roy. Roy’s short 2nd jump allows him to land on the level with 0 lag, which makes ledgeWD’s much easier. A perfect WD from the edge is very easy to do. From this Roy can Roll, Fsmash, spotdodge, jab, grab, or any other grounded move very quickly and with some invulnerability from the edge.
    • Rolling from the edge-Some characters will space outside of both Roy’s Ledgehop and LedgeWD range. To these, an effective method of getting past them is rolling directly from the edge. Also useful for this situation is the LedgeWD->roll.
    • Jumping from the edge-Roy’s jump directly from the edge is actually terrible. On FD, he can do nothing until he has almost landed, and therefore is extremely easy to punish. However, on levels with platforms (specifically DL and BF), he can jump from the edge and land very quickly onto a platform and continue immediately from there. He has very little lag (none maybe?) when landing onto higher platforms from this jump. On DL, I spam it against Marth and almost never have any trouble getting back off the edge.
Roy Advanced

General Counters
This section is organized by the form of counter and then the methods of avoiding it. This lists some of the best methods of beating Roy, and anyone who plays against Roy often will know to use these. So it is in Roy’s best interest to learn how to get around these very difficult AntiRoy strategies
  • CCing-One of the easiest methods of torturing Roy is to CC him. Many of Roy’s hardest matchups have good CC games (ex. Peach and Samus). The following is a list of methods Roy can use to get around CCing.
    • Grab-Pretty obvious. No character can CC a grab or a throw.
    • DED-The 3rd downward hit of Roy’s DED has a large tendency to knock CCers over. Add this to its relatively quick startup, and it becomes one of his best ways for getting out of trouble against those who CC the DED. Against CCers it is vital to progress as quickly as possible to the 3rd downward hit, as the first two hits are easily CCC’ed. All 4th hits can knock over CCers as well.
    • Fsmash/Tilts-Any of Roy’s stronger moves also have a tendency to knock people over, and can be used to stop CCers from taking too much advantage. However tilts like dtilt will not start knocking people over until later than the DED.
    • Mainly Roy has problems with opponents CCing his aerials and beginning DED.
  • SGing-Another ridiculously easy method for torturing Roy. His lack of safe approach on shield makes shield grabbing him child’s play. Most characters have brutal grab combos on Roy too, so this is something to learn to avoid.
    • Crossups-Land on the opposite side of the shield, and they can’t grab you. Unless you’re playing M2, who’s grab basically hits behind him. Nair or Uair are most useful for crossups.
    • Spacing-Land outside of their grab range and they wont be able to grab you either. Of course, Sheik and Marth have ridiculous grab range and are very difficult to space outside of. Rely more on crossups against them.
    • Empty Jumps-SH or FH nothing against any SG spammer and immediately Dtilt or Fsmash. The lack of lag from Roy’s aerials and immediate beginning of the other move will cause them to get hit instead of you being grabbed. Also useful to empty jump into grabs, in case they’re not spamming SG mindlessly.
  • DDing-Roy is not the only character who suffers from being DDed around. In fact, it can be a problem for any and all characters. Here are some strategies for getting around it which Roy can use to his advantage.
    • Empty Jumps-Works here the same way as in the previous situation. By giving Roy no lag upon landing he can take advantage of those expecting him to have it. Empty SH->Fsmash is highly effective against many opponents.
    • Dashing farther-This is pretty obvious for anyone who’s been around better smash for a while. The trick here is not to aim your shuffle at where the opponent is, but to aim it at where they will be. So if they keep dashing away, aim to land at that farthest point of their DD.
  • OWing-aka Overwhelming, the rest of the subsections all had 2 letter abbreviations, so I couldn’t bring myself to break the pattern. Roy has a very difficult time against an opponent who is just all out aggressive. His roll is too slow to get very far away, and he doesn’t have many moves with fast start up time. I actually have the most difficult time dealing with an overly aggressive opponent rather than one being cautious and trying to space me out as Roy.
    • CCing-This is probably the most effective method Roy has for getting someone off of him. CC into grabs and throws especially is great for getting some distance between you and the opponent. Also CCing into dtilt and dsmash is effective as well. Outside of this technique, stick to quick moves in order to create some distance (DED, Jab, etc.)
Platform Play
This unique aspect of smash is not seen nearly as much or nearly as developed in most other fighters. Being able to cope with platforms is absolutely necessary for all characters in smash, and Roy does not slouch in this area. Being so quick in the air allows him to cover the necessary ground to chase his opponent around the stage regardless of how well they use platforms to escape. Generally, platforms are advantageous for Roy.
  • Going up to platforms-against heavy and fast falling characters (those who will need to tech), Roy has the option of jumping to the platform and wavelanding to chase their tech with a grab or dtilt. Roy can also use an aerial on his way up, but may not catch them if they rolling tech. If these characters (mostly the 3 FFers) standing tech, they should be able to escape the ensuing tech chase.
    Against floatier characters, Roy can chase onto platforms with any aerial. Personal preference is nair, which keeps them closer to Roy for a longer time and lasts the whole way up the platform. But any character who will tech rather than jump out, Roy can opt to chase with a wavelanded move (maybe a Fsmash if he’s having trouble killing).
  • Coming off of platforms-every character, Roy can just run off or fall through a platform with an aerial to continue his combo. Against floaties my personal preference is fair, simply because the hitbox comes all the way out even when FFed from a platform (unlike nair). Uair also seems to be a good idea, and may be more useful against FFers, but I haven’t experimented with it much myself. Again this is just a basic outline, coming off a platform will probably mean any character will not have to tech, but can be chased by aerials.
  • For the best recorded demonstration of Roy’s abilities on platforms which I’ve seen, see the first 23 seconds of this video.
Punishment
Vital to upper levels of smash is being able to read and punish your opponent accordingly. In this section I’ll outline a few useful Roy strategies for landing good punishment, as well as some suggestions of what to do for punishing.
  • Tech Chasing-This is a vital aspect in all of smash brothers. Roy’s speed makes him a relatively good tech chaser, and his throws tend to set up for tech chases. When throwing an opponent, it is vital to pay attention to the direction they tech. Attempt to chase the tech and see what follow ups you can land at the end of it. If your tech chase fails, it will be because they did something after teching, whether that was rolling, spotdodging, attacking, or shielding. Again, pay attention to this, as many people will continue to do the same thing after techs to escape tech chases. Knowing these two things about your opponent can lead to huge payoffs.
    Also of note is what I call “reaction techs”- these occur when the opponent unsuspectingly gets hit and is only slightly thrown off the ground. This gives them little time to think about the direction they will tech, which is where I get the name from. Most reaction techs will be standing techs, use this to your advantage. An example: when hitting a FFer with Roy’s tippered dair, they will be popped in the air very very briefly. At almost any percent they become worried you will combo this into fsmash, and will attempt to reaction tech to escape it, instead of fsmashing immediately, wait for their tech and then fsmash.
  • DED Variation-This is perhaps the most basic of any of Roy’s mixups. Because DED should be relied on so much as Roy, it is extremely necessary to mix up the type and number of hits Roy uses. Because the first hit of the DED is so useful, Roy will hit the opponent very often with it. At this point Roy can continue the DED or go for some other move. The only option which can truly combo is the rest of the DED. The opponent will often attempt to avoid the rest of the DED by shielding. This will allow Roy to get grabs after DED.
    Another use of the variation of the DED is opponents for some reason tend to like to roll through the DED to the other side of Roy. If Roy does the longer 3 and 4 hit DEDs he can get punished by a properly timed roll. However, if he notices his opponent doing this, he can stop the DED after one or two hits and get a free move of his choice (fsmash anyone?) on the opponent.
  • DI Punishing-Another aspect vital to Roy (as well as all of smash). This consists of a very simple principle: when the opponent is DIing towards you, it is very easy to combo them, when they DI away it is very easy to kill them. The idea here is for Roy to combo his opponent until the point where they think Roy going to continue to combo and force them to DI away. At this exact point is when Roy needs to finish his combo with a Fsmash. Against characters with less than stellar recoveries, this will set up for an edgeguard or kill at almost any percent.
    A very basic example: Roy can dtilt FFers many times in a row given they DI towards him. If they DI away and get hit by a fsmash they should be dead (dependent on percentage and proximity of the edge). 0-deathing a Fox in the manner of dtilt-dtilt-fsmash is very possible. I generally think if I catch one solid DI punishment or one death below 80% in a match I have been successful as Roy.
  • Also in this section should be listed attention to detail. This works both ways when playing smash. If Roy keeps getting grabbed for spotdodging or shielding, stop doing those two. If Roy cannot combo opponents because they continue to roll away, run past where they are and fsmash their roll. Pay attention to what is working and what isn’t and try to take advantage where Roy can.
  • Punishment-There are two basic types of punishment in smash brothers, one that goes for damage and one that goes for the KO. Depending on the opponent’s percent Roy will have to choose which one he wants to go for. Against some characters, a Fsmash is his best punisher no matter what, these he cannot combo, and 20% is a pretty sweet amount of % to do to someone. Against characters he can combo, dtilt is a solid combo starter and as long as he gets a few follow ups, the damage will rack up past 20%. Grab is also a good punisher against FFers who he can CG, or can be good if he’s confident in being able to tech chase for 20% or more. Flare Blade of course should not be forgotten against people he has a long time to punish: jiggs who’ve missed a rest or those with shields broken.
Roy’s Levels
  • BF-A decent stage for Roy, the platforms are very helpful to his combos on floaties and midweights. Those recovering onto platforms can give him trouble edgeguarding, but otherwise he has little to complain about here.
  • DL-Quite the bad stage for Roy. Against a select few characters this is a very good CP for him (Marth), but against most he runs into huge problems killing or comboing anyone.
  • FD-Another unfantastic stage for Roy. Many characters trash him on this level because he has no platforms to escape combos on. However this stage is an extremely important CP against Fox and a few others, where Roy can 0-death CG him unabated. Roy’s advantage here is, because of no platforms, he can control other character’s approaches with dtilts and DEDs. Edgeguarding is also simplified without platforms.
  • FoD-Roy’s best level, hands down. Platforms allow him to escape CGs and other combos and he can still sweetspot his fsmash through them. The tightness of the stage highlights his low stun and knockback aerial combos, and the average blast radius means he lives long with good DI but doesn’t run into too much trouble killing people.
  • PS-A solid stage for Roy. Very similar to FD overall, but the platforms are a useful tool in getting out of trouble; however he also struggles against fox here due to these platforms. Roy also is by no means fantastic on the transformations, but he doesn’t get hurt too badly either.
  • YS-Another good stage for Roy. Reverse blazer kills many off the top of the level (although few good characters), and the close blast zones amplify his early killing ability. FlareBlade also pokes through the upper platforms, and again the tightness of the stage is advantageous to Roy.
  • Counterpicks-In general, Roy, like the FFers, can adapt easily to moving stages. These can also be good because of the general lack of edgeguarding on them (as in Roy will miss out due to his short recovery). Any CP with close sides is also good for Roy, and on GGs Roy can kill a large portion of the characters in the game by dtilting them from the platforms into reverse upb’s (including Marth). Roy struggles on stages with large blast areas and/or no ledges. Mute City, DK64, and Jungle Japes would not be his best bet.
Character Specific
  • Bowser-A relatively even matchup. Bowser can CC everything you do, and has easy edgeguards. However, Roy can combo him extremely well, and edgeguards him nicely too. Be careful of the CC, and of course his UpB out of shield too.
  • CF-Also a pretty close matchup. Concentrate on not letting him hit Roy by using the DED to beat all of his approaches. His lack of a good CC game lets Roy do this. However he combos you ridiculously well and edgeguards almost as well as Roy does. Very fun match.
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=105351
  • Doc-A scary matchup for Roy, of course many of his are. Doc has a brutal CG and ridiculous grab combos as well. Again, focusing on outranging him is the way for Roy to go here.
  • DK-IMO a very even matchup, of course stage dependent. DK has brutal grab combos on Roy and just as mean edgeguards, but Roy too has great combos on DK (on some levels) as well as ways of killing DK with edgeguarding as well.
  • Falco-Horrible matchup! Falco combos Roy so well and Roy can do very little against it. CCing is useless against this rushdown type character, and Roy just gets obliterated. That and try to land a fsmash on a continually attacking Falco.
  • Fox-Actually a very decent matchup for Roy. Roy’s got the 0-death CG referred to several times in this thread, as well as a good CCgrab game to go with it. He also falls over from the shine and is harder to kill off the top. Smash DIing uairs is seemingly easier with Roy than with most characters. However Fox is no slouch in this match and still combos and edgeguards Roy very well, and maintains the advantage (though slight).
  • Gdubs-Advantageous matchup for Roy, I believe. Gdubs is too light and can be comboed decently by our boy. Not too sure on this one, but I don’t remember losing to (m)any Gdubs with Roy in the past.
  • Ganon-Depending on the type of Ganon, this matchup can be even. However, if Ganon abuses his ability to CG Roy 0-91 into fsmashes/bairs/downb’s, Roy is in huge trouble. Roy should also never be able to recover; a ganon who chases far enough off the level can kill Roy every time. Excepting these two large advantages which not all Ganon’s make use of, the matchup is quite even.
  • Icys-Oh God. IMO this is one of the few 10-0 matchups in the game. Roy has no solid way of separating the icys, nor killing them without risking getting grabbed. Once grabbed, it’s a 0-who knows how much CG ending with Fsmash, regardless of whether there’s one or two icys remaining. Just switch to Peach and save yourself the trouble.
  • Jiggs-As long as Roy maintains control of the match, he has the advantage. However, this is difficult to do, and the combos, rests, edgeguards and damage which Jiggs can put out gives Roy a tough time. This is a very scary matchup for both characters, and Roy falls into rest combos quite easily, but can reverse blazer Jiggs for kills at any percent on most stages. I enjoy this relatively even matchup.
  • Kirby-Honestly? I have no clue. I can’t imagine Kirby having an advantage in any matchup, so I give this to Roy and his CC, DED, Fsmash, and on certain levels reverse Upb.
  • Link-Very even matchup. Link has tough grab combos on Roy, but he’s got plenty of ways to get around being grabbed, as well of combos of his own. Both can have difficulty edgeguarding and killing the other, which makes for very exciting matches.
  • Luigi-Luigi beats the stuffing out of Roy. He combos Roy very well, and CCes into Dsmash and more. His damage output is far too great for Roy to keep up with, and edgeguards Roy easily. Roy on the other had has almost 0 combos and can’t keep up with the damage output. I like counter in this match a lot.
  • Mario-As difficult as this matchup seems to me in theory, I’ve never had too much trouble with Marios. The CG and grab combos from Mario give Roy a headache, as well as Mario’s survivability. However, by relying on DED, Roy can hold his own in this matchup. The biggest trick is to not let Mario inside.
  • Marth-Very hard matchup for Roy. Marth has equal (or better) range than Roy, better combos, better damage payout, and is faster. Roy is basically outclassed on every level. However, a properly spaced fsmash will outrange Marth’s upb and is a solid edgeguard against him.
  • M2-A relatively even matchup is found here. Roy can CC better than M2, and combos probably similarly well. What Roy lacks in edgeguarding he makes up for in killing the light M2 flat out. This is another matchup for Roy to be cautious in, but by no means overwhelming.
  • Ness-Again I put this as even. Ness combos Roy very well, but only if he can get inside. This takes a little adaptation for Roy, he must learn to play differently. On first playing, many will say Ness counters Roy. Once adjusted, however, this is not a bad match at all.
  • Peach-Horrible matchups for Roy. Peach combos Roy as well as any other character, has an amazing CC game, can edgeguard him when she wants, doesn’t get comboed much, and doesn’t die. As a peach player myself, I consider Roy to be one of Peach’s easiest matchups.
  • Pichu-Another matchup which I’m unsure about, but would suspect it goes to Roy. For the exact same reasons as Kirby I would theoretically give this one to Roy.
  • Pika-Slight advantage for Pika. Pika’s advantage comes from being able to chase Roy way off the stage, while Roy has little hope of successfully edgeguarding and killing Pika until later on. Pika’s projectile also hurts Roy, but otherwise Roy can combo well and doesn’t die to the upsmash quite as quickly as other characters.
  • Roy-Even matchup. Duh.
  • Samus-Large advantage to Samus, similarly to peach, samus has an amazing CC, great damage payout, doesn’t get comboed or edgeguarded, and lives forever. Good luck with this one too. At least Roy’s DED can take out missiles (take THAT marth!)
  • Sheik-This is another matchup that depends on the player. Many sheiks will not CG Roys or low tiers. If this is the type of sheik you’re playing against, it’s one of Roy’s best matchups in the upper tiers. Sheik’s 'lack of approach' game is made for Roy’s 'stay the heck off me' game, and her terrible side to side aerial movement means she wont be jumping over your dtilt. Roy also combos and edgeguards her very satisfactorily, and outside of the CG and never being able to recover as Roy, this matchup is quite fair.
  • Yoshi-In my experience, this is an even match. Yoshi has a good CC, but falls into many Roy combos. Roy also gets comboed himself, and neither kill each other too quickly. The style of play reminds me a lot of Roy vs Link actually.
  • Ylink-Another matchup I don’t have much experience in. Again, I’d guess this goes to Roy, since he can chase Ylink well and not get hit by too many projectiles with his disjointed hitbox. Also Ylink doesn’t have great combos or edgeguards, and Roy should be able to do either to Ylink at least decently.
  • Zelda-One last relatively even matchup. This is almost entirely dependent on the skill of the Roy player. The better controlled and spaced the Roy player, the more even. Almost the whole of this match depends on Roy’s ability to not get toed much. He also has nice fair juggles and such against her, but edgeguarding is pretty poor. Roy plays this match on the edge of his seat as well.
    http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=124391
Closing Thoughts

Well, it’s done (relatively speaking). I’m not completely satisfied with a lot of this, especially the character specific section. Eventually I’d like to have a thread for all of Roy’s matchups with information in the first post, but it’s probably too late to think of that. Comments and suggestions are of course welcomed.
Once more I’d like to emphasize that this is not the end all be all for Roy. Every move is situational, and I am by no means the unquestionable authority on Roy (that would be Neo). Sethlon and I have two entirely different Roy styles, and have had success with them; our differences are best summarized in his advice to DED and DD more, and mine to Fsmash more. Heck, NJzFinest wont even link my videos in the Roy video thread. I’m not even counting on Sintenal to replace the old guide with this one as the sticky, but maybe since I’ve linked the old guide in this one he wont mind too much.
I’m sure several of you are also wondering why the heck I put this out now that brawl is available. However, according to this thread, in the suggestions corner, the one thing which was never received was an updated Roy guide. I’m hoping this will cover it. And also, as I said at the beginning of the guide, I needed something big for my 2000th post, so here it is. One last comment too:

Melee for Life
 

AIDS

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good thread, but 2000th post on Roy....come on man! lol
but very goos supporting thread, i indeed like it.
Roy = marth + fire, in conclusion Roy > Marth =) (....jk, get it?)
 

elvenarrow3000

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Fact: 100% of the top tier have t3h ph1r3.

Fact: 100% of the three best characters have t3h ph1r3.

Clearly, Roy belongs in top tier.
 

Tomato Kirby

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A pleasant 2000th (as of post, 2001st) post to exarch.

I cannot believe it took this long for the Roy SSBM boards to get a character guide. At least it is up!
 

KirbyKaze

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i sort of disagree with you on the sheik thing. i think sheik can use her platform game to approach roy from the air just fine, i think people really underestimate this part of her gameplay. her platform camping is also pretty destructive against roy given that it basically says "you have to approach me up here. only way you can get up here is by committing to a 4% aerial, which is punishable by everything i have and the moon. if you don't come after me, then i will spam needles, maneuver around however i want, and have complete control of game. mmmmm gravy."

sheik is gay.

but yeah beyond that i don't think there's anything that jumps at me about this guide. it's put together fine, informative, and the move sections seem well-thought out and not just two sentences and the frame data/damage which is nice actually.
 

elvenarrow3000

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Can't you shffl uairs if they're on a platform? If you do it high enough, you should hit with the sweetspot. Roy's shffls are also fast enough so that it's not too punishable to do so.
 

KirbyKaze

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top platform = the secret tech.

and roy shffls are really easy to space from low platforms given if he runs at you, it's very easy to just like... run off and punish him. hell if you just cc the stupid thing and drop through with fair/bair/ff waveland he's sort of screwed.
 

Black Waltz

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i miss the roy boards. great guide exarch.

and massive lul at the fact that there are only 3 topics left on this page that aren't stickied.
 

KirbyKaze

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Kaze, are you going to FAST? We'll have to get some singles matches this time, instead of only teams (my Roy and Peach).
oh i wish i had the money and ride to go to FAST :(

sucks that only like 2 people around here can drive and it would be like 20 hours from here :(
 

Onomanic

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These boards are dead as a door nail. O_o I mained Roy Melee, but I didn't expect everything but one thread and all the stickies to stay. :( How sad.
 

Rain(ame)

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I'll take a potato chip....and eat it!!!
It's sad because the only conversations that are left is the noobs saying that Roy>Marth. I'm glad nobody brought those back up. *sigh* I just wanna play Melee. I don't Main Roy, he's my secondary. Still, I use him quite a bit.


"Crank that Roy"
 

handsockpuppet

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nice thread, but when I saw the title I thought it was another n00b roK thread. luckily he has moved to the Ike threads with comboking with him. I guess that's not lucky for many of the Roy mains here who switched to Ike, but oh well. at least you're still together :p.

on topic, I would not say Roy has the advantage over Toon Link Young Link. in fact, I wouldn't even say it's even. Young Link keeps you back with boomerang and bomb, and you have no projectile to counter. when you get up close, since Roy doesn't have good damagers, he'll ultimately lose reach and only get at max 20%. Young Link is floaty, interrupting juggles, and failed Uairs result in punishable dairs from Young Link. He also has some fast aerials, like nairs, which, with the help of his deadly Uairs and Dairs, can out aerial Roy.

I suggest using a lot of DED, and SHFFLs will be your friend.
 

Black Waltz

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nice thread, but when I saw the title I thought it was another n00b roK thread. luckily he has moved to the Ike threads with comboking with him. I guess that's not lucky for many of the Roy mains here who switched to Ike, but oh well. at least you're still together :p.

on topic, I would not say Roy has the advantage over [$]Toon Link[/$] Young Link. in fact, I wouldn't even say it's even. Young Link keeps you back with boomerang and bomb, and you have no projectile to counter. when you get up close, since Roy doesn't have good damagers, he'll ultimately lose reach and only get at max 20%. Young Link is floaty, interrupting juggles, and failed Uairs result in punishable dairs from Young Link. He also has some fast aerials, like nairs, which, with the help of his deadly Uairs and Dairs, can out aerial Roy.

I suggest using a lot of DED, and SHFFLs will be your friend.
God****, I wanted to see only stickies left on this board.
 

handsockpuppet

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you do realize that we already have less non-stickied threads then anyone else? even ****ing pichu has more then us.
 

Ace83

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nice guide, roy isn't the third fastest faller though 1. capt 2. falc. 3. fox (even tho fox has the highest fall accelleration) 4. roy? oh well.
 

exarch

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on topic, I would not say Roy has the advantage over Toon Link Young Link. in fact, I wouldn't even say it's even. Young Link keeps you back with boomerang and bomb, and you have no projectile to counter. when you get up close, since Roy doesn't have good damagers, he'll ultimately lose reach and only get at max 20%. Young Link is floaty, interrupting juggles, and failed Uairs result in punishable dairs from Young Link. He also has some fast aerials, like nairs, which, with the help of his deadly Uairs and Dairs, can out aerial Roy.

I suggest using a lot of DED, and SHFFLs will be your friend.
I'm a peach main, and think Peach has a moderate to large advantage over Ylink, whereas most people will say Ylink goes even or beats peach. I've just never had a problem with the lil' kid.

So I guess when I swap to a character to is just flat out faster than peach and therefore a much better chaser I would lean towards having an even bigger advantage. Since everyone argues that peach is at a disadvantage since she can't catch him I've spent many matches chasing Ylink without getting to abused for it. Roy is a much quicker character and can track down Ylink much faster. Marth has no projectile to throw at Ylink either, but he beats the tar out of Ylink nonetheless.

Ylink's stun time makes him great for many of Roy's midweight combos, which are very effective on platform levels against Link, Ylink, Sheik, and the like. I also use Uair only to combo into Fsmash, since I don't find too much a point in shuffling the same move 40 times for 40%. Also if you're lcancelling uair you shouldn't really be getting punished for missing.

Also any of Roy's aerials will and should beat Ylinks (except roy's dair vs ylink's uair). Add to that Roy's DED and dtilt ground game, he definitely is not the worst against ylink.

Plus even if he's not going to get much more than 20% out of combos, Ylink is quite light and WILL die from fsmash.

Good points though.

nice guide, roy isn't the third fastest faller though 1. capt 2. falc. 3. fox (even tho fox has the highest fall accelleration) 4. roy? oh well.
Bleh minor oversight, I don't know how I missed that.
 

LSDX

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.Also any of Roy's aerials will and should beat Ylinks (except roy's dair vs ylink's uair). Add to that Roy's DED and dtilt ground game, he definitely is not the worst against ylink.

Plus even if he's not going to get much more than 20% out of combos, Ylink is quite light and WILL die from fsmash.
Roy will outprioritze YL's airs a standard majority of the time, but they are indeed weaker in damage and knockback output. When it comes to the DED and ground games, YL is still outprioritized and outmatched. This matchup is mainly in Roy's favor.
 

KirbyKaze

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i always thought ylink was just stage dependent with ylink winning on battlefield and dreamland and roy winning on fd, yoshi, and fod. and stadium being kind of close but probably roy.

battlefield and dreamland are big and have platforms so he just spams and acts gay the entire match. and then like sticks to the platforms and forces roy to use his crappy air game primarily.

and then on yoshi's and fod because small stage is small roy can just land f-smash at 50 and kill because ylink dies easy and then range means more on small stage. and then on fd ylink's platform camp game just goes to hell because there aren't platforms so roy can stick to ground game and be gay.

and then stadium is sort of blargh because roy can use his ground game and ylink's platform game is kind of not amazing because of no top middle platform to fall back to so roy probably wins there with massive rambo and d-tilt and ground crap.

but i don't play this matchup much. and i don't think i'd very much like to ylinks are annoying little ***gots.
 

handsockpuppet

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i always thought ylink was just stage dependent with ylink winning on battlefield and dreamland and roy winning on fd, yoshi, and fod. and stadium being kind of close but probably roy.

battlefield and dreamland are big and have platforms so he just spams and acts gay the entire match. and then like sticks to the platforms and forces roy to use his crappy air game primarily.

and then on yoshi's and fod because small stage is small roy can just land f-smash at 50 and kill because ylink dies easy and then range means more on small stage. and then on fd ylink's platform camp game just goes to hell because there aren't platforms so roy can stick to ground game and be gay.

and then stadium is sort of blargh because roy can use his ground game and ylink's platform game is kind of not amazing because of no top middle platform to fall back to so roy probably wins there with massive rambo and d-tilt and ground crap.

but i don't play this matchup much. and i don't think i'd very much like to ylinks are annoying little ***gots.
battlefield is Roy's advantage. it is anything but big, and I like to hit the platform above with SHFFLed Uairs. plus, the small squeezed in platforms results in failed dairs that you can punish. plus, roy justr owns with small stages, especially against light characters

FD is Almost even, but I'm leaning toward Y. Link. He keeps you back and then switches sides. You really can't juggle T.Link easily and cannot chainthrow at all.

I may be wrong, but doesn't FoD have a low ceiling? that makes it easier for Y. Link to kill you with a dair.
 

KirbyKaze

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i hate battlefield against ylink with characters who have terrible aerials because he tends to run around the platforms dropping bombs and things. this is especially gay if he camps near the top platform.

although does die fast there and uair on low platforms is good.

not sure about fd, you make a good point with spam but i think ylink's pretty screwed because his only option to get around you running at him is to either fake you out or jump over you and there's no platform to waveland off of to get him moving.

fod is conducive to roy's uair juggles and whatnot and then he gets random gimp f-smashes because of the stupidly low platforms (sometimes). and then he has u-smash lulz (ask sethlon). and i don't really care about ylink killing roy much faster because i don't see roy living above 100 anyways with his ridiculously awesome recovery especially against someone like ylink who can gay him with ledgehopped nairs all day (or projectile spam if he goes high into nair).

fod's ceiling is slightly lower than average.
 

JonaDiaper

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i noticed you didnt put roys down smash on the list of offence. i just mess around with roy but his down smash has some serious knock back and sends people pretty high at mid percents
 

handsockpuppet

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i noticed you didnt put roys down smash on the list of offence. i just mess around with roy but his down smash has some serious knock back and sends people pretty high at mid percents
the down-smash is not worth it. it has low damage, is slow and predictable, you usually can't connect the 2nd hit, and the knockback is too high up for it to be a good kill move.
 

JonaDiaper

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.......

your joking right?

everything you said is the exact opposite of the truth.

it does 21 damage fresh

its his quickest smash,

your not supposed to land both hits anyways,

and wut

and the knockback is too high up for it to be a good kill move.
? what you said is true but

you contradicted yourself there
 

exarch

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All of Roy’s moves have uses, if you do not see the uses listed in this guide does not imply the move is worthless.
Personally I don't like the dsmash at all. I find the Fsmash kills faster regardless of the character, the dsmash ALWAYS gets punished and HARD (sometimes I get away with fsmashes.) The only thing I find dsmash good for is when i'm desperate for the kill and CCing will work. It also doesn't lead to edgeguarding unless you tipper it.

But this is just my opinion. Roy's dsmash works well for some.

(I also think his other smashes are WAY cooler looking.)
 

JonaDiaper

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werd. i just think his dsmash is better then you give it credit for.

i just mess around with roy but i hit with his dsmash atleast

75% of the time.

but yea i got it.
 
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