Meta Ph1r3 of Pherae: Roy Match-Up Discussion Directory

EnGarde

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#1
Ph1r3 of Pherae: Roy Match-Up Discussion Directory



The Matchup Documents

These are the resources currently being created by the Roy community to document our match-ups. The first sheet is the master directory for the rest of the characters, though I'll try to edit into this thread the individual characters when their google sheet is completed. The master sheet is more likely to have the completed listing, however.
:4feroy: Master Sheet
:4mario: Mario
:4luigi: Luigi
:4peach: Peach
:4bowser: Bowser
:4yoshi: Yoshi
:rosalina: Rosalina and Luma

The Matchup Threads

The original project that this thread was the master resource for was creating individual threads in the Roy sub-forum here to document each match-up. These threads were semi-successful, but the project was ultimately abandoned. You can find some useful information on the threads that were created, however there are no plans currently to create new threads, and the threads are not actively being watched.
Week 1: :4mario: Mario
Week 2: :4zss: Zero Suit Samus
Week 3: :4sheik: Sheik
Week 4: :4pikachu: Pikachu
Week 5: :4fox: Fox
Week 6: :4lucina: :4marth: Lucina / Marth

Other Boards' Matchup Discussions

(Quality varies here; I tried to link to the start of the discussion on Roy when I could, so read following posts as well for more potential relevant points on Roy. You can use ctrl+f / command+f for "roy" to find relevant conversations in the thread most quickly. or to see how often people use the word "destroy" in these kinds of threads lol.)
:4bowser: Bowser
:4charizard: Charizard
:4cloud:Cloud
:4duckhunt: Duck Hunt
:4falco: Falco
:4fox: Fox (1) and (2)
:4greninja: Greninja
:4myfriends: Ike
:4jigglypuff: Jigglypuff (not a formal MU discussion thread)
:4luigi: Luigi
:4mario: Mario
:4megaman: Megaman (1) and (2)
:4metaknight: Meta Knight (continues on next page)
:4gaw: Mr. Game and Watch (ctrl+f is your friend here)
:4olimar: Olimar
:4pacman: Pac-man
:4peach: Peach
:4pikachu: Pikachu (thread about dealing with swordies)
:4rob: R.O.B. (rip)
:rosalina: Rosaluma
:4samus: Samus (not formal MU thread)
:4villager: Villager (fair data thread)
 
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EnGarde

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Basic Table

:4feroy: :4feroy: :4feroy: :4feroy: :4feroy: :4feroy: :4feroy:
:4mario: -1 :4luigi: -1 :4peach: +1 :4bowser: -1 :4yoshi: 0 :rosalina: 0 :4bowserjr: +1
:4wario: +1 :4gaw: ? :4dk: ? :4diddy: ? :4link: ? :4zelda: ? :4sheik: -2
:4ganondorf: ? :4tlink: ? :4samus: ? :4zss: -1 :4pit: ? :4palutena: ? :4marth: -1
:4myfriends: ? :4robinm: ? :4kirby: ? :4dedede: ? :4metaknight: ? :4littlemac: ? :4fox: -1
:4falco: ? :4pikachu: -1 :4charizard: ? :4lucario: ? :4jigglypuff: ? :4greninja: ? :4duckhunt: ?
:4rob: ? :4ness: ? :4falcon: ? :4villager: ? :4olimar: ? :4wiifit: ? :4drmario: ?
:4darkpit: ? :4lucina: -1 :4shulk: ? :4pacman: ? :4megaman: ? :4sonic: ? :4mewtwo: ?
:4lucas: ? :4feroy: 0 :4ryu: ? :4cloud: ? :4miibrawl: ? :4miigun: ? :4miisword: ?
 
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EnGarde

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#3
General Posting Guidelines
  • Quality Posts: Post relavant, detailed responses when possible. Avoid posting simple matchup ratios/scores. Providing data or tournament replays to support your post is always appreciated.
  • Civil Discussion: A discussion has more value when conducted in a civil manner than one with personal attacks. Please stay respectful of other posters.
  • Full Potential: Always assume that both characters are being played to their full potential. Don't base your position on sub standard play.
Analysis Guidelines
  • The Overall Matchup Score: Which character has the advantage over the other, and by how much. See below for definitions.
  • How The Matchup Should Be Optimally Played: How to fight the opponent more efficiently and deal with them. General do's and don'ts of the matchup.
  • Relavant Data: Frame data and tournament replays, among other things.
  • Stage Choice: Which stages should be chosen against the opponent, and which stages should be avoided. Also, how the stage elements factor in to the matchup.
Gameplay states to consider in your analysis
  • Neutral - Neither character have any significant positional advantages
  • Roy at an Advantage - How does Roy establish an advantageous postion, and how does he optimize keeping his opponent at a disadvantage?
  • Roy at a Disadvantage - How does Roy minimize damage while at a disadvantage (i.e. optimal DI while getting combo'd / juggled), and what tools can he use to escape?
  • Roy Edge/Ledge guarding - What tools does the opponent have while recovering, and how does Roy convert edge guards into stocks?
  • Roy on Recovery - What edge/ledge guarding tools does the opponent have, and how does Roy avoid them while recovering?
  • Roy far away from the opponent - What tools does the opponent have when Roy is far away from them, and how does Roy optimally close the distance? Is this a neutral position, or disadvantageous to Roy?
  • Roy at mid range away from the opponent - What tools does Roy and the opponent have when Roy is mid range away from them, and what can Roy do to convert into an advantageous position?
  • Roy in close combat - What close combat tools does Roy and the opponent have? Is this a more advantageous position for Roy or the opponent, and what should Roy do to space optimally to convert into an advantageous position?
Matchup Scoring

+4 = decisive advantage for Roy
+3 = large advantage for Roy
+2 = medium advantage for Roy
+1 = small advantage for Roy
±0 = even or insignificant (dis)advantages for Roy
-1 = small disadvantage for Roy
-2 = medium disadvantage for Roy
-3 = large disadvantage for Roy
-4 = decisive disadvantage for Roy

Credits:
Inspiration for the format taken from @A_Kae 's Marcina Matchup Discussion and Analysis Directory
Inspiration for the Basic MU Table taken from @Liberation 's table in the old MU thread
Old MU Thread: Click Here
 
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Croph

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IceCreamStar
#4
Btw, we're doing 1 character every week, correct? I had another question but I forgot :c hopefully it'll come to me Anyway, I let the Mario boards know that we're currently discussing their character. I'd suggested letting character boards know since it's good to get input from both sides (and hopefully this will help push discussion, I'm not sure if people did this in the old MU thread).
 

EnGarde

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Btw, we're doing 1 character every week, correct? I had another question but I forgot :c hopefully it'll come to me Anyway, I let the Mario boards know that we're currently discussing their character. I'd suggested letting character boards know since it's good to get input from both sides (and hopefully this will help push discussion, I'm not sure if people did this in the old MU thread).
lol I just posted on their MU thread. I wasn't sure if 1 or 2 characters a week would be best; I was going to gauge the activity over the next few days on the Mario thread and play it by ear from there. I don't think our boards are active enough to do 3 characters a week.

The next character covered is likely going to be Sheik, though. I think I'd like to try and cover the top tiers first, since they're the biggest threats. So, Sheik, ZSS, Rosaluma, Ness, Falcon, Pikachu, Sonic, and Luigi are all earmarked in my mind for upcoming character picks.
 

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IceCreamStar
#6
lol I just posted on their MU thread. I wasn't sure if 1 or 2 characters a week would be best; I was going to gauge the activity over the next few days on the Mario thread and play it by ear from there. I don't think our boards are active enough to do 3 characters a week.

The next character covered is likely going to be Sheik, though. I think I'd like to try and cover the top tiers first, since they're the biggest threats. So, Sheik, ZSS, Rosaluma, Ness, Falcon, Pikachu, Sonic, and Luigi are all earmarked in my mind for upcoming character picks.
Ah ha... I posted in their social since it seems more active (well, I also posted a vid too so I guess it's just another reminder). Good idea on gauging the activity though. I'm not sure about 3 characters as well, 1-2 seems good depending on the activity results we get.

And you just answered the question I forgot haha. After covering the top tiers, if we get a lot of request for certain characters we could cover them. Do like some sort of vote (or make a strawpoll if you don't want this thread cluttered with votes). We'll see what happens when we get there.
 

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#8
Yeah, we can do a vote on the order of characters we cover each week, for sure. In a vacuum of information, I would prefer to cover top tier threats, but if anyone has specific nominations, I'll try to give priority to those, so feel free to post them.
 

EnGarde

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#10
I still have yet to write up my own post for the Mario MU discussion, which I'll probably start tonight but finish tomorrow. I'll update the chart and thread OP for Mario then. Anyone that still has some last minute thoughts about Mario, please click here to go to the Mario discussion thread.

In the meantime, I've opened the thread for the next MU to discuss, Zero Suit Samus! Please click here to go to the ZSS discussion thread.

 
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EnGarde

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#11
Summaries have been posted for Mario and ZSS. This week's MU discussion is for Sheik! If you have thoughts to share, feel free to drop by and leave your comments there!



We also discussed the Pikachu matchup as well lol.
 
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EnGarde

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#12
Took a short break, but now we're back on with the next MU discussion. This time: Fox! Please click here to visit the Fox Discussion thread.

 

EnGarde

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Next up is the Marth/Lucina match-up! This time we'll be bolstering this with Joint Match-up discussions in the discord, where a few more Marths, Lucinas, and Roy mains are active. There will likely be a character tournament involved too, so that'll be pretty awesome as well. Click here to visit the Marcina discussion thread.

 
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#15
I say he goes even with :4fox::4sheik:. I've never had a problem and while Sheik can edge guard him he is able to combo them and edge guard then easily. -1 at worst. I think 0 or -0.5.
 

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#16
I say he goes even with :4fox::4sheik:. I've never had a problem and while Sheik can edge guard him he is able to combo them and edge guard then easily. -1 at worst. I think 0 or -0.5.
It'd be best to specify why for each character on their respective MU thread, so the information is condensed with the rest of the information on each character. Right now we're in the process of doing a JMU -- joint match-up discussion with the Samuses that just started today, will continue through to the weekend and end with a Crew Battle on Sunday at 3 pm eastern. It'll be streamed by McDareth, which is pretty hype. The main thread of the discussion is being held in the Samus Discord, if you want to check it out. :)
 

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#18
I would say that the mario matchup is at least a minus 2 because mario uptilts roy forever
This is the general MU discussion directory thread. Talk about the Mario MU in particular should go in the Mario MU Thread. The utilts are annoying, but not infinite, and there are ways around it. Mario can have a tough time landing a kill on a crafty Roy, as we can space them out with our disjoints. -1 or even imo, though I'm leaving it at -1 to be conservative with my estimate. If you'd like, we can continue the conversation on the Mario MU Thread.
 

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#20
We've restarted our Roy community match-up chart project, and since I'm still the OP of the thread here, I'm going to update here as well to reflect the data that we've collected.

Here is all the data I've updated into the OP here:

This is the tentative MU chart we have created so far:



Here are the Match-Up Documents that have been created thus far:

:4feroy: Master Sheet
:4mario: Mario
:4luigi: Luigi
:4peach: Peach
:4bowser: Bowser
:4yoshi: Yoshi
:rosalina: Rosalina and Luma

I'm using surveys to help me keep track of the responses, but I'll also read any responses posted here. You can respond on the currently open surveys here:

:4bowserjr: Bowser Junior
:4wario: Wario
:4gaw: Game and Watch
:4dk: Donkey Kong
:4diddy: Diddy Kong

I'll try to remember to periodically post the rest of the surveys here as well, though I'll likely either mass post about surveys, or use the edit last post message, as I doubt there will be many responses besides my own over time.
 
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#23
Well not sure how much this helps but I was at GOML 2017 playing friendlies and I can say confidently the Roy, Lil Mac MU IMO is -2 cuz of Mac's ground game and his superarmour especially when the Lil Mac player forces you to approach him, also Roy's disjoint isn't the best in smash4, so it doesn't help. Also I thought any skilled Roy player can beat a fox, lol.
 
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