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Personal Opinions on Characters?

AurumLudum

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 15, 2019
Messages
1
I know a lot of people have been saying things like "Pichu is God Tier" and "Bayonetta sucks" but I usually don't believe most of those claims. Apart from those two. So I wanted to hear what other people think, including their reasons for it. Here, I'll go first.

I, personally, think that people are giving King K. Rool too much credit. Sure, he's good, but he's not broken. It's just that the game is fairly new and the meta around him hasn't fully been developed yet. You really just need to use someone like Fox or Roy, a fast-faller with fast attacks.

What about you guys?
 

Lord_Ghirahim

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
59
I have seen and heard a lot of high praise for Chrom. Personal opinion; as time goes on and the meta develops he's going to seen to be worse than people thought. Chrom mains, prove me wrong.

Another one is Inkling's side-special being broken. I just don't think so at all, maybe just because I've never played against a really good Inkling player.
 

LightLV

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 17, 2014
Messages
748
Characters like K. Rool is why i think Ultimate is my favorite Smash game yet.

The reason people hate characters like K-Rool, the Belmonts, Chrom, Wolf, Inceniroar, ect. is because they're built around very specific strengths that completely determine the pace of the match when they're successful at it. Their strategies aren't impossible to deal with, you just have to accept the loss of control and build strategy around it. At which point you realize that the character really isn't as good as it feels like they are when they're winning.

Smash players aren't really used to doing that, i think. Usually, what's "GOOD" in Smash just translates to "here's a completely overwhelming option that you can't do **** about because your character simply can't compete with it". That's not really the case in Ultimate.

So when people initially saw K-Rool, Chrom and Pichu, they go "OMG THEY'RE S-TIER BROKEN" because that's all Smash players really know.


K-Rool is probably the worst heavy in the game IMO, he's just annoying. Pichu is aggravating but you can almost kill him by mistake, even if you're down 1-3 you still have a very real chance of coming back. Chrom's recovery is so bad that if he didn't have his overwhelming speed and power then he'd just be complete trash.
 
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BigDamnHero

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 3, 2019
Messages
18
Location
Canada
Positive opinion:
I think Dr. Mario is an underrated character. His kill-potential is actually nutty.

Negative opinion:
I'm not seeing the hype around Inkling, I haven't seen an Inkling do really-really well yet.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,961
Switch FC
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Opinion about characters? Okay.

:ultdiddy:: Heavily underrated just because his playstyle is different and grabs are harder to get this time. He still has amazing neutral, great combos, increased speed, his Banana throw has bigger range now and thus allows for way different mix ups, Rocket Barrels can crash into enemies for KOs... He's sleeped on heavily, and am here to change that opinion around.
:ultdk:: Is potentially Top Tier, because whoa the big dude is buffed in just about everything!
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
Joined
Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
Switch FC
SW-7479-8539-5283
Inkling is not top tier. Good character, just not phenomenal. Characters that rely on an unreliable gimmick to get meaningful kills shouldn’t be regarded as such. Watching an Inkling try to do any meaningful damage when they’re having trouble getting ink on them is pretty painful to watch.

Lucina is the best Marth-style sword character (also the most boring to play - how can you have fun just doing sword dance with this basic ass ***** and her generic one liners - but that’s for a different topic) The other 3 suffer from too many faults or hurdles to overcome to be the best. Lucina is so well rounded she’s basically a sphere.

Kirby is not the worst character in the game. I actually think that title will go to Little Mac in the long run. I think characters with good recoveries will slowly begin to outshine ones with bad recoveries in the meta and Little Mac is just far too exploitable in the air. He has KO punch as his biggest game changer, but you can stall out till he whiffs or you knock it out of him so easily.

Please read this as my subjective opinion. Not fact. I never claimed to be an expert.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,961
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More opinions:

:ultmewtwo:: Just because air dodge spam isn’t a thing anymore means he’s bad. He’s great actually. Lots of zero to death potential and has a great neutral thanks to buffed Shadow Ball (32% of RAW ****ing damage fully charged!!) and dat JAB! Lives longer generally as well due to weight increase and keeping a top tier recovery.
:ultike:: Lots of fun to play. New U Air and buffed aerials in general is awesome. Easily able to compete with the other sword Lords of his home franchise. Very rewarding even if he is a little too simple at times (which is why he’s a secondary).
:ultlucina:: Another character that’s way to learn, and quite rewarding to do so as well. Looks like she has auto combos almost.
:ultkrool:: Worst heavy, but FUN!
 

Idon

Smash Legend
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God, does :ultmarth: feel bad in this game. His side B's been nerfed, his setups into kills are gone, and even his upthrow has been neutered.

By virtue of being a swordie, he's still pretty top tier, but honestly Lucina's just... better in this game.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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Mar 28, 2008
Messages
1,657
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God, does :ultmarth: feel bad in this game. His side B's been nerfed, his setups into kills are gone, and even his upthrow has been neutered.

By virtue of being a swordie, he's still pretty top tier, but honestly Lucina's just... better in this game.
I find it funny that Marth could be the worst out of all of his multitude of clones. But by worst, he's still probably better than over half the cast. Which is also funny in a kind of depressing way.

Yoshi is gonna sneak up on y'all :yoshi:
Yoshi don't need to sneak he already too good
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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I find it funny that Marth could be the worst out of all of his multitude of clones. But by worst, he's still probably better than over half the cast. Which is also funny in a kind of depressing way.


Yoshi don't need to sneak he already too good
In Fire Emblem canon, Marth is probably weaker than his descendants as well. And at the very least, he's better than Roy. Not too sure about Ike honestly, Ike seems pretty damn good as well. Personally I think he's better than Chrom, but worse than Lucina.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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In Fire Emblem canon, Marth is probably weaker than his descendants as well. And at the very least, he's better than Roy. Not too sure about Ike honestly, Ike seems pretty damn good as well. Personally I think he's better than Chrom, but worse than Lucina.
If you're talking FE characters in general and not Marth clones, Corrin is probably the weakest. I could see Marth being on pace with Roy around the same level. They have different strengths and different weaknesses, but I think they will even out a bit. It just seems like right now, there's absolutely no reason to play Marth over Lucina. Tipper setups aren't as good as they used to be. Characters who can continually put pressure on Marth in wet noodle range can body him, but at the same time can be wrecked by Lucina at that range. I think there could be slightly more viable reasons to pick Roy for a game or two over Chrom, if only due to the slightly better recovery.

IMO

6. Corrin
4/5. Marth
4/5. Roy
3. Chrom
2. Ike
1. Lucina
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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If you're talking FE characters in general and not Marth clones, Corrin is probably the weakest. I could see Marth being on pace with Roy around the same level. They have different strengths and different weaknesses, but I think they will even out a bit. It just seems like right now, there's absolutely no reason to play Marth over Lucina. Tipper setups aren't as good as they used to be. Characters who can continually put pressure on Marth in wet noodle range can body him, but at the same time can be wrecked by Lucina at that range. I think there could be slightly more viable reasons to pick Roy for a game or two over Chrom, if only due to the slightly better recovery.

IMO

6. Corrin
4/5. Marth
4/5. Roy
3. Chrom
2. Ike
1. Lucina
I completely agree! However there's a huge gap between either Marth or Roy and Corrin, and not so much between the other characters.

Robin is probably worst of all though.
 
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Zapp Branniglenn

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 13, 2014
Messages
1,707
Location
Santa Ana, CA
I think Little Mac is pretty okay. Certainly easier to play optimally with perfect pivot replaced with something better and less predictable. The Dtilt and grounded side b nerfs hurt but those moves on the ground are still top of the line in a game where that suddenly matters, and now his aerials lead into them in a pinch. I can't really say his recovery is the worst in distance and certainly not safety. I just feel like the high stakes in getting hit as Mac are matched by equally high rewards. No character moving that fast can hit that hard. These engine changes make his viability go up, not down.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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I completely agree! However there's a huge gap between either Marth or Roy and Corrin, and not so much between the other characters.

Robin is probably worst of all though.
I forgot Robin even existed. Guess that goes to show my thoughts on him
 

MG_3989

Smash Lord
Joined
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New Jersey
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I really really enjoy playing a good Belmont player. It’s exciting to me to try and break through their wall while they try to keep me back and it’s especially fun when it goes back and forth. I like playing them more as Lucina than Ness but they’re fun regardless
 

Rocketjay8

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
370
I forgot Robin even existed. Guess that goes to show my thoughts on him
It really does show how under used Robin is in competitive play. I really don't think that anyone but Robin mains can judge if he's better or worse because of how high Robin's learning curve is.
 

DDRC

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 28, 2018
Messages
90
Agree with OP, k rool is not overpowered remotely, people overhype him to hell and it doesnt help that half of the people online dont understand the concept of shaking out
 

Baby_Sneak

Smash Champion
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King K.rool is def not the worst heavy, that will fo sho be ganon; K.Rool has much more tools for neutral and for battling disadvantage.

bayo atm is trash. maybe she'll get developed more and stuff, but right now she's pitiful. feel sorry for her.

Dark pit is fun. Great for those who don't plan on playing much (me).

isabelle ehhhh she coo, but her specials are worse overall than villager. down b is worse, side b is arguably worse.
 

Arymle Roseanne

Smash Lord
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
1,092
Location
Into Sandy's City
King K.rool is def not the worst heavy, that will fo sho be ganon; K.Rool has much more tools for neutral and for battling disadvantage.

bayo atm is trash. maybe she'll get developed more and stuff, but right now she's pitiful. feel sorry for her.

Dark pit is fun. Great for those who don't plan on playing much (me).

isabelle ehhhh she coo, but her specials are worse overall than villager. down b is worse, side b is arguably worse.
I believe that Isabelle's fishing rod is pretty good and her Llyod mines are dangerous on small stages.
 
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Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,961
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:ulttoonlink: Is easily the best Link. Got way more kill options than Young Link, and his projectiles function better. Smaller frame but heavier and not noticably slower, floaty helps escaping combos, great aerials, lots of range. Up B kills, both on the ground and in the air, he's got a kill throw. Pretty undervallued as of now honestly.
:ultkrool: Isn't the worst heavy. He's not exactly a good character, but he's got crazy stage control and a good advantage and neutral game, especially for a heavy. The best at surviving and dying late on the whole roster, and potentially has a good matchup against Snake. We went from thinking he's a Top Tier to a Bottom Tier, but it's about time we let those polarising opinins sway and just see the character for what he is.
:ultsheik: Is still a good character, and it's weird nobody plays her anymore. Killing is less of a problem than people make it out to be.
:ultjigglypuff: Is also looking solid, and HBox knows what character loyalty means. Him playing this character will make her escape Bottom Tier, believe me on that. She could grow to be a High Tier honestly because of this.
:ultwario: Heavily underrated, he's straight up oppressive and might possibly beat Peach even. Very good character with crazy aerials, air speed, mobility, power and other stupid stuff as the Wario Waft.
 

Coolboy

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 27, 2018
Messages
382
Location
Netherlands
:ultwolf: he can make you combo food.his combos are insane! fighting a good Wolf player really gives you difficulty....
:ultsheik: Sheik is such a bad character now..he refuses to kill and that really can be a problem if you are dealing with strong hit characters,
:ulttoonlink: my fave version of Link! he does everything right, it's so easy to avoid other players you are fighting against, hes a great character if you have to fight against 3 other players online, and even closed range he does a great job at it!
:ultlittlemac:he is such a punching bag.... Mac only does well on FD version of stages but any other stages hes so easy to deal with, once you get him off the stage it's over for him!
:ultganondorf: my current frustration...enough said! :l
:ultroy: my fave FE character i like to play, he can already K.O someone at 60% damage and that can be satisfying if you are the 1 with over 100% damage lol and if you ask me hes better then :ultmarth::ultlucina::ultchrom:
:ultrosalina:shes not as bad as people say she is.. i had to get used to her at first but now i don't get why people find her so nerfed..she does great if you put some effort into it and keep trying her out online.
 

ALiBi212

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 24, 2009
Messages
40
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Western Massachusettes
NNID
ALiBi212
I think people are sleeping on Bowser. We’ve already seen Ganondorfs and Ridleys in grand finals, it’s only a matter of time until we see the one and only big boi.

Bowser is lightning fast in Ultimate and his side smash kills at like 25% it’s stupid. I’ve played some terrifying Bowsers online.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
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Messages
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God, does :ultmarth: feel bad in this game. His side B's been nerfed, his setups into kills are gone, and even his upthrow has been neutered.

By virtue of being a swordie, he's still pretty top tier, but honestly Lucina's just... better in this game.
He's not bad. He's just very precise, and that shows in a game as fast and offensive as Ultimate. I prefer Lucina greatly, but Marth can easily land KOs as early as the strongest heavy weights like DK, Ganondorf, Ike and Ridley. Bowser excluded, he's one of the characters who can land the earliest KOs. A tippered F Smash is one of the scariest things still. Roy also has this strenght, which is why we can't really say they are worse than their Echo Fighter.
 

Idon

Smash Legend
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He's not bad. He's just very precise, and that shows in a game as fast and offensive as Ultimate. I prefer Lucina greatly, but Marth can easily land KOs as early as the strongest heavy weights like DK, Ganondorf, Ike and Ridley. Bowser excluded, he's one of the characters who can land the earliest KOs. A tippered F Smash is one of the scariest things still. Roy also has this strenght, which is why we can't really say they are worse than their Echo Fighter.
The issue is what he CAN do is completely separate from what they WILL do consistently.

With zero setups, his only kill throw gone, and higher mobility from his opponents, worse sideB, lack of safe moves, landing a tipper smash is far more difficult, ESPECIALLY when both DSmash and USmash are awful, with USmash's ground hitboxes doesn't hit into the sword half the time and the tip doesn't hit someone standing on a platform directly above.
 
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Kes

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 23, 2012
Messages
61
Location
North California
I feel :ultzelda: is being under rated and all of the pros seem to be underselling how good the Phantom is in neutral, and quotes like Leffen calling Din's Fire a "worse Palutena's side B" make me laugh.

I feel :ultchrom: and :ultlucina: are being over rated. As the meta develops I feel confident that Chrom won't be ranked near as highly and Roy will climb back above him as people learn how much Chrom's weaknesses really do hurt him, and how over half the cast can actually challenge his Up B in some fashion. Similarly, I feel as players get better at movement, spacing, and reading in this game, players who develop their Marths will start to outshine Lucina's "consistency" when they are better and getting the hitboxes that they want. I believe at top level play, Marth's tippers, and his ability to combo sourspots into tipper kill confirms, will push him above Lucina (though I don't think she'll be that far behind him, and won't drop as far as Chrom).

I feel the complaints about the nerfs to SSB4's top tiers (:ultbayonetta::ultcloud::ultcorrinf::ultdiddy::ultrosalina::ultsheik:) are being over blown as well, and in time opinions will improve again on the characters.
 

SamusFromMetroid

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 20, 2019
Messages
2
Ten best (not in any particular order): Lucina, Ike, Shulk, olimar Pikachu, young link, wolf, peach/daisy, cloud (even though people say he's weak now?)
Five worst: mega man, pac man, game and watch, sheik, little mac
Best heavy: Bowser ( I mean out of the heaviest, not like how Ike is considered a heavy)
my personal favorites: Samus, Palutena, and Link

I have seen and heard a lot of high praise for Chrom. Personal opinion; as time goes on and the meta develops he's going to seen to be worse than people thought. Chrom mains, prove me wrong.

Another one is Inkling's side-special being broken. I just don't think so at all, maybe just because I've never played against a really good Inkling player.
you made it to elite with incineroar?


you have my respect
 
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G. Stache

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Sep 21, 2015
Messages
283
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New England
This may or not be a hot take, I’ve been away from smash boards for the most part and I don’t know what the general consensus really is; but I think Bowser is, or will in time be seen as, the best heavy in the game. I really don’t want to have to do a big write up right now (but I would be willing to later if someone would wanna hear my thoughts) but the Bows has bonkers mobility for a heavy, good range, at least some sort of intangibility or armor on a whole lot of his attacks, all of his moves reek kill power, great damage output, good frame data for a heavy and also side b. This character seems to be going a bit under the radar and I’m surprised. Despite no easy bake throw combo for a quick kill, this character is easily still scarier than he was in smash 4 in my opinion. I think once he gains some rep and the metagame begins to form a little bit, this character should go places. I think Nintendo finally got heavies right in this game and that makes me happy.
 
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I personally think Shulk has very good mix up options, can kill early, good aerials, and a solid counter option. He's not represented online much either imo.

Inkling is over-hyped, at best I've had mediocre results with the character. Still really fun to play though, gotta admit.
 

MarioMeteor

Smash Hero
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Positive opinion:
I think Dr. Mario is an underrated character. His kill-potential is actually nutty.
Absolutely. I think Doc is going to get a whole lot more attention when people realize how easily he can destroy stocks. He does more in 2-3 hits than some characters do in whole strings.
 

Lord_Ghirahim

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 6, 2018
Messages
59
Absolutely. I think Doc is going to get a whole lot more attention when people realize how easily he can destroy stocks. He does more in 2-3 hits than some characters do in whole strings.
He's sick for sure, but he's got a very exploitable and poor recovery compared to a lot of characters to balance him back out IMO.
 

Sean²

Smash Capitalist
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Absolutely. I think Doc is going to get a whole lot more attention when people realize how easily he can destroy stocks. He does more in 2-3 hits than some characters do in whole strings.
He’s top 5 in free edgeguards though. Barely tap him offstage and he’s dead. Glass cannons tend to fall off the radar more often than not.
 

TheBeastHimself

No time for tea, uncle, gotta capture the Avatar!
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Any opinions on :ultlucas:? I swear everyone forgets he exists...

For most people if anyone is going to main a Mother character, their first choice would likely be Ness. But I dunno, Lucas is a really fun alternative. Instead of needing to constantly spam PK Fire, Lucas has a lot of new tricks with it that can catch enemies by surprise to get some distance. My favorite example is running off the platform at the beginning of the match and using PK Fire immediately as I'm descending. Since 90% of players immediately go under their platform at the start of the match, it's almost guaranteed to hit anyone not expecting it.

Also has anyone seen how long his tether reaches? I was playing with a buddy on Twitch and that snake extends so far. However, Lucas still has his cons. Getting back to the stage can be a nightmare unless you pull off a well timed down air or back air, which are both unreliable a lot of the time. But Rope Snake and PK Thunder definitely make up for that because they both cover really long distances, on top of Lucas' already floaty nature. It can be hard to kill him off stage without a spike, he just keeps coming back.

You guys think Lucas has potential?
 

Cheryl~

Smash Journeyman
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Messages
442
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Any opinions on :ultlucas:? I swear everyone forgets he exists...

For most people if anyone is going to main a Mother character, their first choice would likely be Ness. But I dunno, Lucas is a really fun alternative. Instead of needing to constantly spam PK Fire, Lucas has a lot of new tricks with it that can catch enemies by surprise to get some distance. My favorite example is running off the platform at the beginning of the match and using PK Fire immediately as I'm descending. Since 90% of players immediately go under their platform at the start of the match, it's almost guaranteed to hit anyone not expecting it.

Also has anyone seen how long his tether reaches? I was playing with a buddy on Twitch and that snake extends so far. However, Lucas still has his cons. Getting back to the stage can be a nightmare unless you pull off a well timed down air or back air, which are both unreliable a lot of the time. But Rope Snake and PK Thunder definitely make up for that because they both cover really long distances, on top of Lucas' already floaty nature. It can be hard to kill him off stage without a spike, he just keeps coming back.

You guys think Lucas has potential?
As a Lucas main myself, my opinion on him is that he's a good character that lacks any truly amazing qualities to make him succeed at the top levels of play. His moveset is certainly more complete than in Smash 4, as moves that were deemed unviable in that game, mainly PK Freeze, got buffs to make them usable assets in his movesets while other moves got good QOL buffs to just make them more threatening in general. One of the more notable buffs is PK Fire having sizable knockback now, making it much more threatening when the opponent is offstage as it can kill them off the side way earlier, while also being a viable kill option on-stage at very high percents. While his grab game is as a whole worse because of his endless D-Throw combos ceasing to exist, he doesn't need it quite as much as one would think since his moveset was made more cohesive as a whole. (Lucas' throws are useful though, don't get me wrong - Down-Throw can lead to early-percents combos on most characters while Up-Throw and Back-Throw are very strong kill throws, with F-Throw also being a kill throw but is mostly good for positioning opponents offstage for edgeguarding.)

However, that's not where all of the positives end. Lucas still has a pretty decent neutral, but the real saucy parts of this character start to turn up when the opponent's off the stage. Lucas' edgeguarding kit is without a doubt Top 5 in the game easily. Between PK Thunder (one of the best gimping tools in the game), PK Fire snipes, two usable spikes, F-Air in certain situations, and the situational but usable and infamous PK Freeze at his disposal, Lucas has a myriad of tools to stuff out people's attempts to recover and can often secure very early stocks because of this against some characters. Oh and I forgot to mention, even if the opponent manages to get past all of that, they also have to worry about Down-Smash at the ledge, a very potent 2-framing option that reaches ludicrously below the ledge and also kills crazy early. So yeah, Lucas' edgeguarding is easily the best part of the character and what makes him stand out from the pack.

Now from all this gushing, you're probably wondering why I think Lucas is only just a mid-tier. Sadly, even despite his good neutral, zoning capabilities, and edgeguarding game, along with a more cohesive kit, a lot of other characters got buffs too in the transition to Ultimate that make them just.. better. More damage output (scarily more in the case of some top-tiers... Olimar… PEACH...), better range, and more useful "busted tools" in general. Lucas doesn't really have much "busted" stuff to him besides PK Freeze's knockback, and even then that's in the form of a very situational move that's very easy to avoid unless you're smart with how you're using it. His range, while not terrible, still gets stuffed out in the eyes of swordies (although the matchups against most of them aren't that bad!) or even moves like Bowser's F-Air. This issue also isn't helped by his grab range getting nerfed from Smash 4, where it now goes a pittance of the distance. You can really feel it when you go for a dash grab and it just barely whiffs and you know it would've hit in Smash 4... His recovery is a double-edged sword against these top-tiers as well, as while his tether goes amazingly long and PK Thunder 2 also travels amazing distances, Lucas is also very vulnerable when using PK Thunder 2 which leads to easy edgeguards at times from characters like Lucina. He also struggles super hard with getting juggled as he has crappy landing options on top of being floaty, makes fighting some characters like Palutena a nightmare at times. What I'm trying to say here is that while Lucas gained a lot of good QOL buffs in the transition to Ultimate to make him a better character, other characters got that too and more that just make him feel a little undertuned compared to them. (Good example is Ness actually, some of his aspects are crazy overtuned compared to Lucas)

However, I do think Lucas has the potential to go up as new tech like the DJC Z-Air being discovered opens up new options in the character's kit to be explored, and could make his rough matchups less annoying. Buffs in later patches would also help to make him feel less undertuned, perhaps increase his combo game to make his damage output better? Make Up-Smash's intangibility the same as Smash 4 Game and Watche's Up-Smash? He still has great player representation even if it's small in the form of Mekos, ShiNe, and Pink Fresh. (Oh and don’t forget Regalo, who placed 25th at Glitch 6 while taking a set off of former EVO champ Lima!) And even if his top-tier matchup spread isn't too hot Lucas does have some niche matchups against the likes of Snake, Pichu, and debatedly even ones like Ike and Wolf. tl;dr: Lucas does have the potential to go up in the ranks as his playerbase continues to find new tech and optimize his meta, but as of right now he might be a bit undertuned compared to the upper half of the cast leaving him in mid-tier imo.

He's still the most fun character to play as though~ :ultlucas:
 
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