Kiligar
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 5, 2019
- Messages
- 269
Last thread I spoke of Pit’s problems. In this thread I won’t focus necessarily on how to fix them, but simply illustrate ways to fix and buff his moves, and how these fixes and buffs could lessen these issues. It’s not about eliminating weaknesses, as that make a character broken, but lessening them so they hold the character back less. I will speak of 7 “fixes”, fixes as in this is how Pit should have been when the game came out, fixes to moves which do not work as they are supposed to. I will also speak of 6 buffs, which would increase Pit’s viability. Throughout the list I will also write about how significant each adjustment changes his viability, and how they lessen his weaknesesses. Let’s begin.
7 moves which need to be fixed
Side Special
-This move has a super armor problem, which I addressed in my previous post.
-Have super armor startup at least 3 frames earlier and last at least 3 frames longer. Also remove the disappearing super armor when connecting with an opponent’s hurtbox.
- Halve end-lag in the projectile reflection animation. This should make you able to punish the opponent if they’re in range, rather than vice versus which occurs currently. This also helps avoid ledge shenanigans with projectiles which get Pit killed.
-Decrease aerial end lag on hit and on whiff. There should be at least 10 frames shaved of each. Both animations are ridiculously laggy, with Zero mistaking the Dark Pit Electroshock buff for whiff lag reduction, as it’s that bad. On hit you enter an animation which sends you spinning upwards, it definitely is punishable, most opponents fail due to matchup inexperience. This makes aerial follow ups off an aerial ark easier for the Pits, and makes it a viable mix-Up in the air.
-Fixing this move addresses the exploitable recovery problem, and also helps the bad reflector issues.
Down Special
-Shave at least 3 frames of end-lag off the move. The reflector is very punishable by grab, so much so that many call it the worst reflector in the game, and sadly the differing opinion would be the arms. This also improves Pit’s ability to punish aerial and grounded opponents.
- Remove the vulnerable zones at the bottom corners of the shields. The point is that directly underneath Pit is vulnerable, not simply lower on the shield.
-Orbitals buff help out Pit’s exploitable recovery flaw
Up Aerial
-This move has too much startup. It’s the slowest of all of Pit’s aerials, and one of the slowest Uair in the game at frame 12. Seriously, there is no reason this move should be so slow.
-The knockback on this move seems like a sad joke. It doesn’t kill on BF side platforms till 170% and top platform at 140%. Without DI or directional influence. The move should kill at least 15% earlier.
Neutral Aerial
-Move doesn’t connect consistently. Opponents can SDI out of it or simply fall out of it. This shouldn’t happen, and I feel it’s on purpose because look at Palu Nair. I feel this happened because they wanted to make Pit drag downs inconsistent.
-Make drawdowns consistent. It shouldn’t ever spit the opponent out behind me.
-This helps address Pit’s mid percent crisis, by using drag down Nairs instead of regular ones he can convert into grab which is what he wanted all along.
Forward Aerial
-The first hitbox of this move is highly inconsistent. It needs to be made larger, sometimes it goes right through an opponent and nothing happens.
-Low % drawdowns don’t work. You shouldn’t be punished for hitting the opponent, a problem which really repels me from Dr.Mario. At least make the window smaller where you get punished if not remove it altogether. Decreasing landing lag slightly would help as well toward this objective.
Down Aerial
-Same thing. I shouldn’t be punished for hitting a grounded opponent with a sweet spot at low percent. Hard punished at times.
-The sour spot has bad knockback growth for a combo move yet doesn’t kill. The KBG should be decreased a bit so Down Throw Dair into X setups work longer. This helps Pit address the mid percent crisis as well.
Grab Range Increase
-Slight increase to standing grab range, which I believe should happen to the majority of the cast which have terrible standing grab ranges. This buff is significant, in tandem with the other buffs it lets Pit achieve Mid High Tier. It gives Pit a more consistent fast Oos option, which helps solve the mid percent crisis since it combos. It prevents those silly whiffs where you grab their shield, but they don’t get grabbed, and kill you for it. Grab is laggy in this game, so a whiff cannot be afforded as much, and with terrible standing grabs grabbing becomes a problem. Solving this would increase Pit’s standing in the meta since he depends highly on grab.
Six Buffs for Pit
Down Tilt
-Decrease end lag by 1 frame
-Decrease knockback growth by 5
-This is a major buff which nearly solves the mid percent crisis. Huge. It give Pit Down Tilt Bair setups as well, a new kill confirm, but tight in timing. It makes the move very slightly safer on shield as well. This buff after the previous theoretical buffs cements Pit as a model mid high tier, in no way niche or overlooked but as a perfect example. This buff alone if given to Pit right now could raise him at least 10 placements.
Forward Tilt
-Increase grounded range by 0.1 units.
-Reduce end lag by at least 3 frames
-This buff gives forward Tilt more of a use compared to Down Tilt, especially after the theoretical Down Tilt buff. This makes the move better at pressuring the opponent due to less end lag, it also makes a better spacing tool.
Up Tilt
-Halve Startup to 3 frames. This makes it Pit’s fastest option. Since the grounded range is so little, something has to be done to prevent D Tilt from overshadowing it completely, especially after the theoretical buffs.
-Increase shield stun by at least 2 frames on the first hit
-Decrease end lag by 2 frames
-This move currently isn’t safe on shield since the second hit misses shield entirely. This would make the move a close range shield pressure option. Also confirming out of this move would become easier, Up Tilt Up air combo would last essentially forever. Not to forget drag down set ups as a kill confirm into U smash. This move would become good but not oppressive due to it lacking grounded range.
Down Throw
-Reduce End lag by 1 frame
-Reduce KBG by 5
-A truly massive buff. Gives Pit a consistent Down Throw Bair kill confirm on the entirety of the cast, timing is tight though. Down Throw Fair and Uair work basically forever on heavyweights. In fact both of these can kill confirm on heavies at high enough percent. DI mixups work at virtually any percent on heavy enough characters. This buff would be enough to allow Pit to enter High High Tier in conjunction with the rest.
Up Throw
Even before the theoretical Down Thriw buff, Up Throw is pretty unviable, with forward throw, back throw and even Down throw having more use at high percent. Up throw doesn’t kill the average middleweight until 210% on BF ground, without DI. It’s ridiculous that other swordies have Up throws which Pit envies. Pit’s Up Throw should at least always kill 5% earlier than his forward throw across all legal stages.
Neutral Special
-Decrease end lag by at least 3 frames. The Pits’ arrows are pretty suspect in the neutral, and this would go a long way, especially for Dark Pit who has faster arrows which disappear earlier. The arrows will become more viable in the neutral.
That’s my list of what I think should be done to improve Pit while remaining “honest”. What do you guys think?
7 moves which need to be fixed
Side Special
-This move has a super armor problem, which I addressed in my previous post.
-Have super armor startup at least 3 frames earlier and last at least 3 frames longer. Also remove the disappearing super armor when connecting with an opponent’s hurtbox.
- Halve end-lag in the projectile reflection animation. This should make you able to punish the opponent if they’re in range, rather than vice versus which occurs currently. This also helps avoid ledge shenanigans with projectiles which get Pit killed.
-Decrease aerial end lag on hit and on whiff. There should be at least 10 frames shaved of each. Both animations are ridiculously laggy, with Zero mistaking the Dark Pit Electroshock buff for whiff lag reduction, as it’s that bad. On hit you enter an animation which sends you spinning upwards, it definitely is punishable, most opponents fail due to matchup inexperience. This makes aerial follow ups off an aerial ark easier for the Pits, and makes it a viable mix-Up in the air.
-Fixing this move addresses the exploitable recovery problem, and also helps the bad reflector issues.
Down Special
-Shave at least 3 frames of end-lag off the move. The reflector is very punishable by grab, so much so that many call it the worst reflector in the game, and sadly the differing opinion would be the arms. This also improves Pit’s ability to punish aerial and grounded opponents.
- Remove the vulnerable zones at the bottom corners of the shields. The point is that directly underneath Pit is vulnerable, not simply lower on the shield.
-Orbitals buff help out Pit’s exploitable recovery flaw
Up Aerial
-This move has too much startup. It’s the slowest of all of Pit’s aerials, and one of the slowest Uair in the game at frame 12. Seriously, there is no reason this move should be so slow.
-The knockback on this move seems like a sad joke. It doesn’t kill on BF side platforms till 170% and top platform at 140%. Without DI or directional influence. The move should kill at least 15% earlier.
Neutral Aerial
-Move doesn’t connect consistently. Opponents can SDI out of it or simply fall out of it. This shouldn’t happen, and I feel it’s on purpose because look at Palu Nair. I feel this happened because they wanted to make Pit drag downs inconsistent.
-Make drawdowns consistent. It shouldn’t ever spit the opponent out behind me.
-This helps address Pit’s mid percent crisis, by using drag down Nairs instead of regular ones he can convert into grab which is what he wanted all along.
Forward Aerial
-The first hitbox of this move is highly inconsistent. It needs to be made larger, sometimes it goes right through an opponent and nothing happens.
-Low % drawdowns don’t work. You shouldn’t be punished for hitting the opponent, a problem which really repels me from Dr.Mario. At least make the window smaller where you get punished if not remove it altogether. Decreasing landing lag slightly would help as well toward this objective.
Down Aerial
-Same thing. I shouldn’t be punished for hitting a grounded opponent with a sweet spot at low percent. Hard punished at times.
-The sour spot has bad knockback growth for a combo move yet doesn’t kill. The KBG should be decreased a bit so Down Throw Dair into X setups work longer. This helps Pit address the mid percent crisis as well.
Grab Range Increase
-Slight increase to standing grab range, which I believe should happen to the majority of the cast which have terrible standing grab ranges. This buff is significant, in tandem with the other buffs it lets Pit achieve Mid High Tier. It gives Pit a more consistent fast Oos option, which helps solve the mid percent crisis since it combos. It prevents those silly whiffs where you grab their shield, but they don’t get grabbed, and kill you for it. Grab is laggy in this game, so a whiff cannot be afforded as much, and with terrible standing grabs grabbing becomes a problem. Solving this would increase Pit’s standing in the meta since he depends highly on grab.
Six Buffs for Pit
Down Tilt
-Decrease end lag by 1 frame
-Decrease knockback growth by 5
-This is a major buff which nearly solves the mid percent crisis. Huge. It give Pit Down Tilt Bair setups as well, a new kill confirm, but tight in timing. It makes the move very slightly safer on shield as well. This buff after the previous theoretical buffs cements Pit as a model mid high tier, in no way niche or overlooked but as a perfect example. This buff alone if given to Pit right now could raise him at least 10 placements.
Forward Tilt
-Increase grounded range by 0.1 units.
-Reduce end lag by at least 3 frames
-This buff gives forward Tilt more of a use compared to Down Tilt, especially after the theoretical Down Tilt buff. This makes the move better at pressuring the opponent due to less end lag, it also makes a better spacing tool.
Up Tilt
-Halve Startup to 3 frames. This makes it Pit’s fastest option. Since the grounded range is so little, something has to be done to prevent D Tilt from overshadowing it completely, especially after the theoretical buffs.
-Increase shield stun by at least 2 frames on the first hit
-Decrease end lag by 2 frames
-This move currently isn’t safe on shield since the second hit misses shield entirely. This would make the move a close range shield pressure option. Also confirming out of this move would become easier, Up Tilt Up air combo would last essentially forever. Not to forget drag down set ups as a kill confirm into U smash. This move would become good but not oppressive due to it lacking grounded range.
Down Throw
-Reduce End lag by 1 frame
-Reduce KBG by 5
-A truly massive buff. Gives Pit a consistent Down Throw Bair kill confirm on the entirety of the cast, timing is tight though. Down Throw Fair and Uair work basically forever on heavyweights. In fact both of these can kill confirm on heavies at high enough percent. DI mixups work at virtually any percent on heavy enough characters. This buff would be enough to allow Pit to enter High High Tier in conjunction with the rest.
Up Throw
Even before the theoretical Down Thriw buff, Up Throw is pretty unviable, with forward throw, back throw and even Down throw having more use at high percent. Up throw doesn’t kill the average middleweight until 210% on BF ground, without DI. It’s ridiculous that other swordies have Up throws which Pit envies. Pit’s Up Throw should at least always kill 5% earlier than his forward throw across all legal stages.
Neutral Special
-Decrease end lag by at least 3 frames. The Pits’ arrows are pretty suspect in the neutral, and this would go a long way, especially for Dark Pit who has faster arrows which disappear earlier. The arrows will become more viable in the neutral.
That’s my list of what I think should be done to improve Pit while remaining “honest”. What do you guys think?
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