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Peach's Changes, Buffs and Nerfs

Gerpington

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@ Gerpington Gerpington & @Raven_Peach : Be careful, guys! We're talking about Peach's buffs and nerfs here. XD Perhaps we could create a "Peach Social Thread".

@ M Meru. : Awww, this is unfortunate. But thank you anyway. ^^

@Delphinus : Don't worry. I am perfectly aware the huge peaches' position is random. I was only disgusted, like everybody else, that the peaches fell right next to Daisy, whom did not fall asleep.

Daisy could simply steal both peaches (recovering 40%) and one or two KOs from Peach while she ends her Final Smash. Heck, any other (skilled) opponent could stay airbone or just run away from her before proceeding to eat the three peaches.

Peach's Final Smash has truly been severely nerfed. However, I am glad I am mostly playing without items. From a competitive stance, only her Turnips have been nerfed. Overall, Peach has been notably buffed. Her Dash Attack, for example, almost feels like Zelda's Lightning Kick. <3
Well the *peach* thread basically became the social thread, but whatever. No big deal dog, I cut it short.
 

ZeroBlindDragon

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- Forward tilt and down tilt both deal 7% instead of 10%. Up tilt's damage is unchanged at 10% sour spotted.
- Down smash actually consists of 4 hits. Fully charged down smash deals 14%. The 1st and 3rd hits deal 2,5%. The 2nd and final hit deal 4,5%.
- Back air deals less damage sweet spotted (12%, down from 14%)
- Down throw deals more damage (8%, up from 7%). Down throw is great!
- Final Smash deal a maximum damage of 30%, down from 40%.

Source :


P.S. #1 The top-left value is "Damage". The top-middle one is "Accumulated damage".

P.S. #2 "Full moveset showcase" is a lie. Her up aerial and back throw are not shown. |3

Overall, I have mixed feelings about this. It does appear most of Peach's moves got less power in exchange of greater knockback. In other words, racking up damage will be more difficult, but KOing will be easier. I'm sure we can work with that!


Edit : There's a rumor that opponents close to Peach but airbone WILL fall asleep with her Final Smash. I need confirmation for that.
 
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meleebrawler

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Her Usmash does only 13%?? Wuuuut

Her damage seems grossly nerfed. ;_; Anyway, thanks for the vid, editing the first post now!
Didn't watch the video, did most of her moves do less damage?

Cuz if they didn't and you're only talking about the U-Smash, this is a prime example of taking
one nerf and blowing it up to emcompass everything.
 

Meru.

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Didn't watch the video, did most of her moves do less damage?
Jab (-1), Ftilt (-6), Utilt (-3) , Dtilt (-3), Usmash (-2/-3), Dair (-3), Bair (-2) and Peach Bomber (-5) all got their damage nerfed (although Peach Bomber is somewhat understandable).

Cuz if they didn't and you're only talking about the U-Smash, this is a prime example of taking
one nerf and blowing it up to emcompass everything.
(-_-) No comment.

The damage output is reduced but the trade off for better KO power is absolutely worth it - especially with the new mechanics in Smash 4 ('Vectoring' and 'Rage' to be specific).
Vectoring looks disgusting. Hopefully it's not as bad as they make it seem now. I think the new rage system is really gay and totally unnecessary but at least it doesn't affect knockback that much unlike Vectoring which can make you live for about 40% longer.
 
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ADAPT Chance

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Good thread with lots of useful information.

Was hoping her F-Throw would be more of a kill move this time around, but it's fine.
 

ZeroBlindDragon

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@ ADAPT Chance ADAPT Chance : Our pleasure! ^^ And no, instead, her back throw is her new kill throw! It's been greatly improved!

@ M Meru. :

- Neutral aerial deals 13% when sweet spotted (unchanged from Brawl). It deals 6% when sour spotted (down from 9/10% in Brawl).

- Up aerial appears to consist of two hits. The first deals 4% and the second deals 6%. The entire rainbow seems to have no sweet spot / sour spot. Its knockback appears to be low under 100%, and very high above this value. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLVKIVBIhWM&t=7m52s (Needs to be confirmed)

- Normal-eyed vegetable deals 7% (up from 2% in Brawl). <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLVKIVBIhWM&t=0m36s


I might need assistance for this one to understand this next one.


Down smash actually consists of 4 hits. Fully charged down smash deals 14%. The 1st and 3rd hits deal 2,5%. The 2nd and final hit deal 4,5%.
Well...

- Uncharged down smash consists of 5 hits dealing 3% each (for a total of 15%) : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLVKIVBIhWM&t=15m55s

From this video too, we can see all of her forward smashes. Their damage is unchanged, but their knockback got increased.
 
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Meru.

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Thank you, I'll add them to the list! So Dsmash was 5 hits after all... This must be the worst smash move to charge ever XD

- Normal-eyed vegetable deals 7% (up from 2% in Brawl). <3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SLVKIVBIhWM&t=0m36s
It also dealt about 7% in Brawl. I have just looked it up in the Smash Wiki and the information about her turnip damage is completely off. Turnips have never dealt only 2% wth.

Its knockback appears to be low under 100%, and very high above this value.\
Even when close to the ceiling the knockback is pretty low actually. As you can see on that video, Peach was very close to the upperblast zone when **** Marth who was at 140% and she still couldn't kill him. Her previous Uair would have killed him easily. I tried her Uair a lot too when I got to play with her and I couldn't get any kills of it. The knockback is pretty weak.[/user]
 
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meleebrawler

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Vectoring looks disgusting. Hopefully it's not as bad as they make it seem now. I think the new rage system is really gay and totally unnecessary but at least it doesn't affect knockback that much unlike Vectoring which can make you live for about 40% longer.
At least the two work to counteract each other somewhat.
 

Meru.

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At least the two work to counteract each other somewhat.
They only counteract each other when you're at a high %. If you're killed you'll respawn with 0%, you're one stock behind and there is no rage effect to give you extra knockback. What counteracts vectoring more, is the remarkable decrease in staling and I'm predicting this will be Peach's saving grace. We can now spam our Fairs (with improved knockback!) without the fear or having staling it so badly it won't kill anymore (like in Brawl).
 

Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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Like @ M Meru. I'm very wary of these two new mechanics - especially vectoring which appears to have a significant effect on knockback.

I suppose if Peach's offstage game this time around is super strong then it won't be too much of a problem KO-wise but on the surface it sounds like the mechanics are going to make characters like Bowser even stronger :/
 

Meru.

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Judging from this and many other vids, I don't believe Usmash's range has increased. Instead, I think Usmash will always "sweetspot" now; the sourspots have been removed entirely. Even in Brawl the sourspots of Usmash deceptively had quite some range, so this explains why some people feel its range has been improved. It's not that its range has been removed, it just always hits strong now, regardless of where you hit with it.

In exchange for this pretty big buff, they have decreased the damage (15/17 > 12) and as a result the knockback seems to have been decreased a bit too. It still seems pretty strong though.
 

ZeroBlindDragon

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@ M Meru. : Damn it, I was getting hopeful about the turnips's increased damage for a second. XD

I agree with your statements regarding up smash.

Also, Jump Cancel Throw returns from Brawl! This is an advanced technique different from Glide toss, which has been removed.

 
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SFA Smiley

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^Just tried it. yup it's good. It's like the same length as a Medium glidetoss. that's great to know, I'll put it in a video later.

Edit: she can also do this in all four throw directions. In order to throw while moving away you have to pivot
 
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DrakeRowan

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^Just tried it. yup it's good. It's like the same length as a Medium glidetoss. that's great to know, I'll put it in a video later.

Edit: she can also do this in all four throw directions. In order to throw while moving away you have to pivot
With this, do you think it'll be possible to C-Stick glidetoss in the WiiU version?
 
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SFA Smiley

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Yes but you'll need a weird method (like claw) or just really fast fingers (or an alternate control setup, because you'll be pressing jump and then taking your thumb all the way down to the cstick and pressing it in a direction in like 4 or however many frames it takes for her to leave the ground)

If you do however seems like it'd be easier to do with a cstick, less buttons. You may even be able to control your distance more accurately since what I'm assuming is happening is that peach jumps and the forward momentum from the throw pushes her forward before she visibly leaves the ground. It's possible that the faster it's done the more she'll slide but that's a theory.
 
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Rickerdy-doo-da-day

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With this, do you think it'll be possible to C-Stick glidetoss in the WiiU version?
Glide Tossing (i.e. the one where you cancel your roll with a throw) is out in the Wii U version (at least that's what was found in the E3 build) but there's no reason that Jump Cancelled Throw (cancelling your throw with a jump which is what Smiley tested) wouldn't be in.

It will probably work the same way it did in Brawl...so yes using the C Stick will work but you'll probably have to set L to Jump or something since trying to use the C Stick and press X/Y would require you to claw which isn't very comfortable imo.

Edit: Ack, Smiley beat me to it :p
 
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DrakeRowan

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Yes. The answer is yes.
lol at that question. Totally forgot about that. Anyway what I was in the midst of asking is; can the Grumpy Toad custom special still block projectiles/attacks?
 
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Peachkid

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I wish I got to try out Peach more in depth when I did. I was really looking forward to giving Grumpy Toad a shot. Any Toad is better than default Toad D:.

I've never liked her counter, if anyone couldn't have guessed haha.
 

Carrill

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I'm more excited about the potential of Sleepy Toad.

Then again, sleep effects tend to be really weak in these games...
 

Meru.

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Judging from this and many other vids, I don't believe Usmash's range has increased. Instead, I think Usmash will always "sweetspot" now; the sourspots have been removed entirely. Even in Brawl the sourspots of Usmash deceptively had quite some range, so this explains why some people feel its range has been improved. It's not that its range has been removed, it just always hits strong now, regardless of where you hit with it.

In exchange for this pretty big buff, they have decreased the damage (15/17 > 12) and as a result the knockback seems to have been decreased a bit too. It still seems pretty strong though.
I have just go the game and tested this. It seems I was wrong. The sourspot and sweetspots (the 15% hit as well as the 17% hit) are still in, but the sourspot has significantly increased damage and knockback.
 

Carrill

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Having actually tried Peach's Final Smash in some matches, I must say it feels fairly buffed in some ways. The reduced sleeping time seen in some footage was a misconception. Those were CPUs furiously jamming the controls at a completely inhuman rate. Against human players, the sleep time feels about the same... maybe more. Haven't tested it so I'm unsure. And while the damage has surely been nerfed, the move now has effectiveness even when opponents try to escape by jumping into the air. A Zelda player tried to jump and Up-B like they would have in Brawl and it did not work at all.

It may not effect competitive play but it's nice to know Sakurai at least gave this move some kind of buff.

EDIT: I just now noticed that Yaaay already had this added this info to the OP.
 
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shininimuss

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urgh it sucks not being able to fast fall aerials out of float.
 

D-idara

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I like how her SideB can hit on the way down, and her Final Smash was really buffed, although it's still not Emotional Overload from Super Princess Peach, and it should've been. On another note, I read the thread title as Peach's Changes, Butts and Nerfs.
 

Nose

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urgh it sucks not being able to fast fall aerials out of float.
it bothered me immensely at first but it's great for surprising people who expect a slow falling Fair when you approach floating. although her fast fall speed is pretty pitiful, starting your fair immediately after float and fast falling it catches people off guard much more often than you'd think. you'll get the ending lag, sure, but if it lands, you don't have to worry about that. mix it up with fast fell nairs to grab them once they've learned to shield, and you can create a pretty solid approach option even with a semi-high float.
 

shininimuss

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it bothered me immensely at first but it's great for surprising people who expect a slow falling Fair when you approach floating. although her fast fall speed is pretty pitiful, starting your fair immediately after float and fast falling it catches people off guard much more often than you'd think. you'll get the ending lag, sure, but if it lands, you don't have to worry about that. mix it up with fast fell nairs to grab them once they've learned to shield, and you can create a pretty solid approach option even with a semi-high float.
ye but no turnip
 

Nose

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if you can only feel secure approaching with a turnip in your hand
then you need to get more comfortable with turnip-less situations anyway

it's good to have a turnip in hand
beneficial for sure
but it's not super necessary.
 

shininimuss

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why would i fair out of float to get lag? i guess i'll have to z drop it then grab it with a fast fall fair when i'm above my opponents..
 
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Nose

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you wouldn't fair out of float
you would float, drop it, then space fair for a mixup

you space your fair well enough the lag doesn't matter if you miss
and if you hit, no problem to begin with

you can do that too though
z-drop to fast fall fair
that's not a bad idea
you can't space your fair if you do it that way
but it's a good mixup


peach has an insurmountable amount of mixup in this game
with the inclusion of turnip lag canceling
it's absolutely fantastic
 

Moozle

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Unfortunately I haven't been able to play smash 4 yet, but thanks for compiling this list. It's nice to be able to see all of the changes. Kinda sad glide tossing is gone, that was my favorite part of Brawl Peach.
 

TimeSmash

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Unfortunately I haven't been able to play smash 4 yet, but thanks for compiling this list. It's nice to be able to see all of the changes. Kinda sad glide tossing is gone, that was my favorite part of Brawl Peach.
At least we have Toss Lag Cancelling to compensate. It seems in every iteration of Smash Peach can do something weird with her turnips hah
 
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