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Path of the Gerudo King, a Ganondorf guide by TT, ver 1.21.01.00

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
Path of the Gerudo King, a Ganondorf guide, ver 1.21.01.00

The way you read the version number is,
(1).00.00.00=Full guide update, +1 to this will mean a full guide update.
1.(00).00.00=Video section update, +1 to this will mean 1 extra video has been added.
1.00.(00).00=Character specific update, +1 to this will mean the list has been changed and/or specific matches have been modified.
1.00.00.(00)=Advanced tech update, +1 to this means a new technique has been added. Unlike other updates this is the most exciting since new techs aren't always found everyday.


Table Of Context
0. Intro
1. Good **** To Know About Ganondorf
2. Terminology
3. Move List
4. Advance Techniques
5. Ledge Techniques
6. Edge Guarding Techniques
7. Advance Tactics
8. Character Match Up List
9. Video Links


0. Intro
This is my Ganon Guide, for the most part I'm going to keep it short and simple because reading a guide can get real tedious especially when you notice every little thing is trying to be explained such as where the "A" button is located on the controller (WTF). I feel like the present guide is a bit out dated and a new one is needed. Ill be getting a lot of pictures of hitboxes frame by frame so you guys can get a better idea on Ganons moves and what not. Now without further a do (what ever the **** that means).*introduced*

1. Good **** To Know About Ganondorf
Ganondorf is the 4th heaviest character in the game with Bowser DK and Samus above him. Ganondorf's range and air game is what most would agree his main strengths are at. His infinite edgehog and wizards foot recovery on top of his weight can make him a very difficult character to KO. Down throw on any character almost always has a follow up so when Ganon grabs it counts. He is basically your big strong heavy character but isn't slowed down to match his strengths *BROKEN*. All in all Ganon is a solid character with a few exploitations.

2. Terminology
B/U/N/D/Fair: Aerial "A" attacks are abbreviated this way (Back A = Bair, Neutral A = Nair).
Dash Dancing: Dashing from side to side without going into your running animation.
L-Canceling: This is a tactic to reduce the recovery time of air attacks. When you do an aerial attack (A moves only) Right before you hit the ground press L (or R, or even Z) to the landing lag by about half.
Short Hop: By taping the jump button (or flicking the joystick up quickly) you can perform a smaller jump than usual. Some characters are harder to perform this technique than others.
SHFFL: SHFFL is an abbreviation for "short hop, fast fall, lcancel".
Crouch Canceling: Also known as CC while hold down on the ground and you're hit with an attack you will suffer a considerable less amount of knockback and stun. At lower percents depending on attack you may not budge from the ground and be in a perfect situation to counter attack.
Directional Influence: Also known as DI when you are hit or throw holding a certain direction will influence the trajectory you'll be sent. DIing moves with horizontal knockback up and vertical knockback across is an effective way to use DI to help you live longer.
Pivoting/DA DASH: During your dash animation when you turn your character will be upright for one frame before dashing the other way. You may perform any move from a neutral position in that one frame.
Teching/Techrolling: When you are hit and sent flying, in your tumbling animation if you press L/R once you hit the floor you will tech. pressing either direction before hitting the ground to tech will cause you to techroll in that direction.
Edgetech/Walltech: While recovering from underneath the stage if you hold L/R before you are hit and DI towards the stage (next to the wall of the stage) you will tech off the side of the stage.
Wavedash: It is done by jumping and then immediately air dodging toward the ground diagonally so that your character will slide along the ground. When done properly it should appear as you character hasn't left the ground.
Ledgedash: This is performed by letting go of the edge and jumping onto the surface and performing a wavedash. By airdodging straight across you can gain maximum distance.
Meteor Cancel: Certain moves a deemed as meteor spikes (Ganondorf's dair for example is a meteor spike). While being meteor spiked you can jump or upB out of the spike. You will not be able to do so against a true spike (Falco's and NTSC Marth's dair).
Wizards Foot Recovery(DownB): Wizards foot can be used to help recovering by using it to get your second jump back. As long as you have a good amount of height you can wizards foot, jump over and over until you get back to the stage.
Infinite Edgehog: By grabbing the ledge and dropping shortly and jumping to grab the ledge again you can remain invincible for as long as you keep the right timing up.
Total: The total duration of the attack.
Hit: Frames during which there's a hitbox. The same hitbox can't hit the same opponent more than once.
Range: Are you that ****ing stupid?
Priority: Priority works like so: ground attack Vs ground attack clank, air attack trades hits with air and ground attack, grabs out prioritize all. This is assuming both attacks connect on the same frame.
Kockback: How far an attack sends your opponent when it hits.
IASA: Interruptible As Soon As. You can do an attack, jump, dash, turn, crouch, or shield on the IASA frame. You can interrupt with B moves on the ground only.
Auto cancel: Landing during an air attack such that your character goes into their standard landing animation instead of the animation for whatever attack they were doing.
Landfallspeciallag: After most up Bs and some other Bs, you fall flashing black and can't do anything. You do not receive normal land lag when you land.

Terminology was compiled through SDM Terminology of Frames and SSBM Compendium of Knowledge: Expanded and some off the good ol noggin. Visit both of these links if you are confused about any terminology mentioned along the guide since i only list what i thought would be most usfull.
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
3. Move List

3. Move List
The move list is mostly made up of frame data (credit to SuperDoodleMan) so things to keep in mind while reading it is:
*The game runs at 60FPS
*Priority is being roughly based on meatiness of the hitbox (though moves with distinguishable priority will be pointed out)
*As you keep using a move over and over the percentage it deals drops slightly each time
*Hitbox clips are on imageshack.us servers if it means anything significant to anyone
*Yellow hitbox = True Ganon, Red hitbox = Attack, Blue hitbox = Invincebility


Ground Moves
-------------------------------------
Thunder Punch
(A) 7-4%

Hitbox Clip: Jab, 244kb
Total: 21
Hit: 3-5
Range: Close (straight forward)
Priority: Not much at all
Knockback: Decent
IASA: 19
Notes: This is Ganondorf's fastest attack. The jabs stun and knockback make it a perfect move for stopping and spacing opponents rushing in for an attack. One thing you must be careful with when using the jab is if your opponent is at relatively low percents it is easy for them to CC and counter attack.
-------------------------------------
Armor Crusher
Forward Tilt (A) 13-7%

Hitbox Clip: Ftilt, 353kb Angled down Ftilt, 386kb Agled up Ftilt, 351kb
Total: 29
Hit: 9-11
Range: Mid (straight forward)
Priority: Above Average by top of the foot
Knockback: Good
Notes: Ftilt is a great move for spacing and counter attacking. With Pivoting the applications of this move expands from a great ground spacer to a quick counter attack. Oddly though when angled up it does 1% more and when angled down it does 1% less. The trajectory gets effected as well but not too drastically.
-------------------------------------
Sweeping Snake
Down Tilt (A) 12-6%

Hitbox Clip: Dtilt, 425kb
Total: 35
Hit: 10-12
Range: Mid (low and straight across)
Priority: Decent above the front of the leg
Knockback: Small, mostly sends you upward
IASA: 35
Notes: Admittedly i don't use this move to often but on fast fallers and characters that can be exploited in the air by Ganon well this move can become very useful. At higher percents popping someone in the air with this move can lead to an air to take the stock.
-------------------------------------
Volcano Kick
Up Tilt (A) 27%-lets face it you wont be landing this move too often

Hitbox Clip: Utilt, 703kb
Total: 114
Hit: 81-83
Range: Close/Mid (low)
Priority: Decent around the thigh
Knockback: O-M-G!
IASA: 113
Notes: Well there isn't too much to say on this move since it is extremely difficult to pull it on someone. Though a good thing to know is on a sleep Jigglypuff at 20% or lower this move has a better knockback than the warlock punch but if the stage has a high ceiling you are better off doing a warlock punch or a Dair to an air for damage sake.
-------------------------------------
Nightmare Lunge
Forward Smash (A) non-charged 22-12%, charged 30-24%

Hitbox Clip: Fsmash, 420kb Angled down Fsmash, 428kb Angled up Fsmash, 411kb
Total: 66
Charge frame: 10
Hit: 20-24
Range: Mid/Long (straight across)
Priority: Small in front of elbow
Knockback: Good, though has more of an upward trajectory
IASA: 60
Notes: Ganons smashes are pretty situational but this one seems to have more opportunities than the rest due to the lean back before the initial attack. Pivoting this move can create a deceptive space between you and your opponent due to the lean back. When this move is angled upward it does 2% more and downward it does 2% less.
-------------------------------------
Leg Whip
Down Smash (A) non-charged 20-12%, charged 28-23%

Hitbox Clip:Dsmash, 649kb
Total: 49
Charge frame: 14
Hit: 19-22, 29-32
Range: Mid (straight forward and straight back)
Priority: Decent by the top of the foot
Knockback: First kick is set knockback and second is good, again more of an upward trajectory
IASA: 47
Notes: This move is a great combo starter and usually leads up to airs. The main downfall of this move is the set knockback of the first kick can be CC with no problem and you'll find yourself getting owned if you get to predictable on grounded opponents.
-------------------------------------
Tornado Kick
Up Smash (A) non-charged 36-10% charged 53-28%

Hitbox Clip: Usmash, 703kb
Total: 54
Charge frame: 8
Hit: 21-23, 26-29
Range: Mid up/Close in front (up but hitbox extends forward some)
Priority: High if front of Ganons legs and above
Knockback: Great if hit in front of the of the foot, strong upward trajectory if hit with the top of the foot
IASA: 40
Notes: This move despite its priority and knockback is difficult to apply. Its good to use when under a platform and your opponent is recovering. Also its IASA frame is very deceptive and doing it as a feint to get your opponent close can make them walk straight into a jab.
-------------------------------------
Iron Shoulder
Dash attack (A) 14-5%

Hitbox Clip: DashAttack, 480kb
Total: 39
Hit: 7-16
Range: Mid/Long (straight across)
Priority: Good in front of Ganon on opening frames, Very Small in shoulder on closing frames
Knockback: Decent on opening frames, Poor on closing frames
IASA: 38
Notes: On opening frames this move is usable for its good stun and knockback and its ability to keep the opponent in the air, but on the closing frames the lack of stun and knockback can leave you wide open for retaliation.
-------------------------------------
Grab
(Z)

Hitbox Clip: Grab, 395kb
Total: 30
Grab: 7-8
Range: Close (straight across)
Priority: 'Tis a grab, though Great on 7th frame
Knockback: N/A
Notes: Ganons best throw option from a grab in most cases in down throw. He can chain grab some characters with it and is usually guaranteed a follow up from it on those he cant. Up throw works good on fast fallers. Back and forward throw is good for dictating where the fight will be located. His grab has a good speed without much lag but some characters can crouch under it and have just enough time to counter attack.
-------------------------------------
Running grab
(Z)

Hitbox Clip: RunningGrab, 533kb
Total: 40
Grab: 11-13
Range: Closer (straight across)
Priority: Good in front and behind
Knockback: N/A
Notes: Same as a grab but with a slight lunge, as well as a hitbox behind Ganon so he can grab from both sides!


Air Moves
-------------------------------------
Swooping Keese
Neutral Air (A) 22-6%

Hitbox Clip: Nair, 379kb
Total: 44
Hit: 7-8, 16-17
Range: Mid (straight across both kicks)
Priority: Decent first kick, Mediocre second kick
Knockback: Decent
Auto cancel: <3 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
Notes: Nair isn't one of Ganons all star moves but at lower percents you can get both kicks to hit for a nice 22%. You can use nair on someone's shield to stun them long enough for you to reach the ground or at lower percents nair and DI towards the opponent and hope both kicks hit for maximum damage, but over all nair isn't too good.
-------------------------------------
Vulture Kick
Up Air (A) opening frames 13-3%, ending frames 6-3%

Hitbox Clip: Uair, 394kb
Total: 33
Hit: 6-16
Range: Mid/Long (Straight (90) across to almost below him (315)
Priority: Great by foot and behind leg
Knockback: Good in the beginning frames, Decent on ending frames
IASA: 30
Auto cancel: 22>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
Notes: This is the fastest and most versatile air move Ganon has. Its range and speed can help against a lot of the faster characters in the air and its priority on reverse uair is great for edge guarding a lot of the characters in the game. It also having a convenient auto cancel frame helps with shff a fast air attack while only getting a very small amount of land lag. Don't forget down throw uair works on almost all chars if they DI anywhere but behind you in that case bair.
-------------------------------------
Hidden Gauntlet
Back Air (A) 16-8%

Hitbox Clip: Bair, 366kb
Total: 35
Hit: 10-15
Range: Long (slightly angled downward behind him)
Priority: Huge by end of the fist
Knockback: Great
IASA: 29
Auto cancel: <6 19>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
Notes: Bair is great for spacing in the air and at lower percents certain characters can be hit by a chain of bairs (sh bair, dj bair). Its also a great follow up after dthrow if your opponent decides to DI behind you.
-------------------------------------
Thunder Drop
Down Air (A) 24-12%

Hitbox Clip: Dair, 382kb
Total: 44
Hit: 16-20
Range: Long vertically (from head to a little past his feet)
Priority: Good from head to toe
Knockback: None really but its upward trajectory on a grounded opponent is real strong
IASA: 38
Auto cancel: <3 36>
Landlag: 35
L canceled: 17
Notes: The stomp is a powerful move. Along with being a good meteor spike its ability to be a combo starter on grounded opponents is difficult to overlook. Oh and for the record yes, you can get spiked by Ganons face.
-------------------------------------
Skull Crusher
Forward Air (A) 17-9%

Hitbox Clip: Fair, 395kb
Total: 44
Hit: 14-19
Range: Long (starts from top of the head and ends at bottom of the punch)
Priority: Great at top of his punch
Knockback: ****ing Great
IASA: 35
Auto cancel: <6 34>
Landlag: 25
L canceled: 12
Notes: Ahh, the strongest of all the air attacks. Fair is just an overall powerful attack and when incorporating shffl fairs Ganon can appear to resemble a berserk gorilla. Its the ultimate combo finisher and its knock back can set up some quick edge guarding relatively early in the match.


B Moves
-------------------------------------
Warlock Punch
(B) 34-16%

Hitbox Clip: PUNCH!, 403kb
Total: 119
Hit: 70-72
Range: Mid (straight across)
Priority: Decent around arm
Knockback: O-M-G-2-!
Notes: Warlock punch is crazy strong but its just one of those moves you wont land to frequently unless your opponent is a sleeping Jiggs or a heroine junkie with slow reaction time.
-------------------------------------
Dark Dive
Up (B) 17-9%

Hitbox Clip: UpB, 412kb
Total: 64
Grab: 13-33
Range:Long at first than close for the remainder (straight across)
Priority: Tiz a grab, Great on first grab frame and Decent on the rest
Knockback: Good
Direction choosing: 13
Landlag: 30
Landfallspeciallag: 30

Grabs edges from both sides as early
as 45

If it hits…
Hit: 3-5, 9-11, 15-17, 21-23
Releases on frame 25
Free falling 60 frames after release
Notes: Ganons infamous crap recovery is better off at just that than an attack. Though its not completely useless as an attack just opportunities for it only shine so often. It is very difficult to sweetspot the ledge with Ganon but if you upB facing away from the ledge you can get a small amount of warp that can help you out in tough situations. Also it is very helpful to make it a habit to hold block just before you get edge guarded and your chances of teching and recovering successfully.
-------------------------------------
Wizard’s Foot
Down (B)

Hitbox Clip: DownB, 501kb
From the ground…
15-6%
Total: 77
Hit: 14-34
Range: Hella Long (straight across)
Priority: Decent by foot
Knockback: Great on the initial hit, Good at the ending frames
Total (ends in the air): 69
If you hit a wall, 60 frame animation

Hitbox Clip: DownBAir, 395kb
From the air… 15-11% + 5-3% if gound hits aswell
Total: 58
Hit: 15-29
Range: Hella Long (about 45 degress down)
Priority: Decent
Knockback: Spikes airborne opponents, Mediocre on grounded opponents
Landing hit: 2-3
Landing animation: 57
Notes: Wizards foot is great for means of recover since every time you do it you get your jump back (in the air). On the ground it is great for tech chasing and getting opponents off guard at a good distance away.
-------------------------------------
Gerudo Dragon
Left/Right (B) 17-8%

Hitbox Clip: FowardB, 527kb
Total (ground): 79
Hitbox Clip: FowardBAir, 639kb
Total(air): 79
Hit Window: 15-34
Range: Semi Long (straight across)
Priority: Great but you have to be in the opponents face before the hitbox appears
Knockback: Decent, sends them more upward if anything

Upon Striking…
Total: 25
Hit: 4-8

Upon striking from the air…
Landlag: 40
Landfallspeciallag: 40

Otherwise
Landlag: 20
Landfallspeciallag: 20
Notes: Great combo starter on the ground since it sets them up for an air. Its also very useful for going through projectiles with good example is forwardB through Samus' missiles. Be careful not to use this too close to an edge or else you might end up falling off.


Misc. Frame Data
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand <100%

Total: 33
Invincible: 1-22
-------------------------------------
Ledge stand 100%>

Total: 58
Invincible: 1-49
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll <100%

Total: 48
Invincible: 1-24
-------------------------------------
Ledge roll 100%>

Total: 78
Invincible: 1-54
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack <100% 10-7%

Hitbox Clip: LedgeAttack0, 421kb
Total: 54
Invulnerable: 1-20
Hit: 24-29
-------------------------------------
Ledge attack 100%> 8-5%

Hitbox Clip: LedgeAttack100, 671kb
Total: 68
Invulnerable: 1-33
Hit: 37-40
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump <100%

Total: 43
Invulnerable: 1-11
Soonest FF: 40
-------------------------------------
Ledge jump 100%>

Total: 53
Invincible: 1-18
Soonest FF: 47
-------------------------------------
Rising attack laying on back 6-4% each hit

Hitbox Clip: RiseBack, 679kb
Total: 49
Invincible: 1-29
Hit: 19-20, 28-29
-------------------------------------
Rising attack laying on front 6-4% each hit

Hitbox Clip: RiseFront, 721kb
Total: 49
Invincible: 1-27
Hit: 20-21, 26-27
-------------------------------------
Wall tech

Invincible: 1-15, reduced to 1-4 when teching the second time without grabbing the edge
IASA: 2
-------------------------------------
Wall jump tech

Invincible: 1-10, reduced to 1-4 when teching the second time without grabbing the edge
IASA: 2
(NOTE: You will recive lag on the first frame as if it were the stun of the move you were hit with, with the exception that your opponent does not lag with you)
-------------------------------------
-------------------------------------

Jump
Airborne on frame 7

Air time: 42
Earliest FF: 22
FF air time: 32

SH air time: 33
Earliest FF: 18
SH FF air time: 24

2nd jump earliest FF: 20
-------------------------------------
Air dodge
Invulnerable 4-29 out of 49

Ground dodge
Invulnerable 2-20 out of 32

Roll
Invulnerable 4-19 out of 31

Landlag: 5

Dash becomes run at frame 16
Turn-jump Threshold: 16
Run turnaround: 28







__________
final line
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
4. Advance Techniques - 7. Advance Tactics

4. Advance Techniques
These are techniques that are not in the smash booklet but are regular parts of the game. A lot of these techniques are essential for improving your game.

a. Wave Dash
Wavedashing done by jumping and then immediately air dodging toward the ground in an angle so that your character will slide along the ground. When done properly it should appear as you character hasn't left the ground. Ganons wave dash is good but his jumping speed keeps him from exploiting it to the fullest. Its still very useful for spacing, wave dashing to edge hog, and looking fancy as ****. Oh and Ganons wave dash is 17 frames (jump frames= 7 + wave dash frames= 10 =...O....M...G.... I know math 34!). (<--- and good punctuation)
a1. Land dash
A variation of the wave dash used to slide along the floor while landing from a jump (instead of wave dashing in the beginning of it). Main difference between a wave dash and land dash is the angle of the air dodge can be done straight across meaning a lot more distance. This makes Ganons air game a little more scary since his land dash is soo good its not uncommon to jump out with an empty air and land dash up to your opponents face.
a2. Platform dash
An other variation of the wave dash with the properties of the land dash. Except this is executed while jumping on to a platform from underneath. Ganondorf's platform dash improves his air game tons by adding quicker air movement through platforms and since most platforms are rather short Ganon usually dashes off of it meaning you could land with some nasty airs. One thing to keep in mind though, even though his platform dash is fun to use it can hurt you a lot do to the lag of wave dashing so try not to get to predictable with it.
a3. Shield dash
Its the same as a wave dash except out of your shield. Good move to use after shielding a laggy attack and wave dashing in to close the space. Very helpful versus Falco's SHL (short hop laser), helps move closer and away according to the situation.

b. Lcancel
This is a tactic to reduce the recovery time of air attacks. When you do an aerial attack (A moves only) Right before you hit the ground press L (or R, or even Z) to the landing lag by about half. For Ganon lcanceling is a godsend since his air moves on their own have soo much lag. It takes a little while to get used to but in time you'll be doing it by second nature. Dair is a tricky move to learn to lcancel because when it hits it stuns for so long it can throw off your timing so keep that one in mind.

c. Run cancel
After you initial dash you go into your running animation. You can cancel your running animation by pressing down, during which you can do any move from a neutral stance (except tilt away from you run direction). This can be used to tech chase with jabs and tilts or just move in for a quick hit. Even though this isn't as fast as wave dashing it does have its upsides such as being able to block anytime prior to the attack.
c1. Reverse Gerudo dragon
This is simply done by run canceling and pressing forwardB in the opposite direction of the run. While running Ganon cant do his forwardB in the opposite direction of his run without run canceling it. The lung back of forwardB plus the run away can create enough space to efficiently counter attack a long range attack.

d. Pivot
During your dash animation when you turn your character will be upright for one frame before dashing the other way. You may perform any move from a neutral position in that one frame. Though very difficult to get down consistently you will find that pivoting helps Ganon get a few good hits in certain situations (i.e., Jiggly whiffing a pound and whiffed dash attacks). Very tough tech to get down but more useful to Ganons game than meets the eye.
d1. Jabs
Pivoting jabs is IMO one of the tougher pivots to do (next to the retardedly difficult dtilt/utilt). Its applications are great Vs characters that are very speedy and are trying to rush you as your evading. A trick you can use to pivoting jabs is instead of just turning then trying to bring the stick back to the neutral position to jab just flick the stick and press A quickly.
d2. Ftilts
Tilts take a bit of practice but its one of the easier pivots to get down consistently. This is very good for spacing and angled upwards is great for countering a shffling opponent. No real trick to this one just make sure you don't hit the stick to far out or else you might end up doing a fsmash instead.
d3. Smashes
It is recommended that you learn to pivot smashes first that way you can learn the timing better. Pivoting fsmash is great since it lunges back some before attack which helps the spacing of the attack, also it can be pivoted in the same direction of the dash by using the cstick. Dsmash is pretty good for taking advantage of whiffed attacks and setting up combos but the speed of Ganons dash and the fact that is doesn't have a nice lunge back like fsmash to make it space better keep it down to be a real situational move (more than the other pivots). Usmash is like hoping for your opponents to jump into a giant blender... if you think it'll happen why not try it.


5. Ledge Techniques
When on the ledge what do you do? Ganondorf has a lot of options past the jump, attack, or roll and when you figure that out people will fear your Ganon once it touches the ledge. Keep in mind once you grab the ledge you get 37 frames of invincibility and you can let go of the ledge on the 9th frame which leaves you with 28 frames to do the following.

a. Ledge Hop
This is a technique used to jump off the ledge without the restrictions of pressing jump while hanging on the ledge (i.e., lag). To ledge hop you let go of the ledge by pressing back/down/c-stick back and jumping immediately over the ledge. Since Ganon has a real weak second jump its recommended to learn to use the c-stick back to let go of the ledge so you wont lose the DI forward needed to get back on the ledge and so you don't risk fast falling and not being able to make it over.
a1. Uair
Uairing off of a ledge hop is a nice way to hit your opponents off guard. Easiest way to do this is use the c-stick to let go of the ledge and use the joystick to jump and fully DI towards the stage (performing a ledge hop) then hit the cstick up and if done correctly you should have performed a "LEDZD H0PBD OOOH'EIAAAY"! If you utilize the ledge invincibility right this attack can have massive priority and cut through anything.
a2. Uair-to-edge hog
Same concept of uair except you don't move closer to stage and grab the ledge when its done. For some reason I've always had problems with this tech and it seems the only way I could do it is hit the joystick back and up and hit A immediately (kinda like doing a HADOUKEN away from the stage, instead it starts from back to up, kinda like a SHORYUKEN but not really).

b. Ledge Dash
Performing a ledge dash requires the same technique as doing the other wavedash variations (if anything more so like a platform dash). You start off by performing your ledge hop and when your at the lip of the stage air dodge straight across. Ganon gets massive slide from the ledge so don't be scared of chasing down opponents a good distance away.
b1. Jab/Grab
This is one of the most common follow ups on a ledge dash. Its nice and fast and if you take full advantage of the ledge invincibility the hitbox of the jab will come out one frame before your ledge invincibility runs out.
b2. Dash-to-pivot
When you see your opponent has committed to a laggy move from relatively close you can ledge dash, dash behind them, and pivot a ftilt or jab (which ever you prefer). This is one of my favorite ledge techniques because if you successfully pivot a ftilt you have just switched the roll on who is being edge guarded (AWESOME!). Though its very situational its bad *** when it happens.
b3. Sheild grab
An awesome little mind game you can do is ledge dash into an opponent, block his attack and shield grab him. With the ledge invincibility you get a safe bet so even if you get attack before the block you'll be invincible. If you find that your ledge game is being predicted by your opponent a lot throw this in there as a little curve ball. Its a cool tech but it can get caught onto pretty easily.
b4. To edge hog
This is a nice way to mix up your ledge game but is very difficult to pull with Ganon. I suggest using the cstick to let go of the ledge as you jump and di towards the stage with the joy stick. Its tough to get the timing but once you do your opponents will be like "wtf". You're vulnerable on the ending frames with the ledge invincibility unless do it on a slanted edge or fast fall before grabbing the edge (hella hard).
b5. Advanced evade
This is a very tricky tech since you need to be very precise. What you do is with the invincibility frames ledge dash and ASAP roll away. If times right the opening frames of the roll in which you are vulnerable will be invincible due to the ledge invincibility. It goes farther than pressing block while hanging on the ledge, its vulnerable 12 frames less at the end of the roll, and you're facing the ledge (where your opponent may be). Only downfall really is its 6 frames longer to perform than your average roll from the ledge.

c. Infinite Edge Hog
A simple way to kill some time while your opponents invincible or regain your invincibility frames while edge hogging is as easy as hanging on the ledge, dropping down, and jumping back up to grab it again. Trick with this is the timing has to be tight so unless you have some really precise timing these tips can help:
*Let go of the ledge ASAP (duh).
*When dropping down fast fall so you'll be at ledge height on your second jump earlier.
*Jump and prepare your next move.
It isn't difficult for someone to jump in and edge hog you in the middle of your jumps so be careful when your opponents move in.


d. Infinite Edge Hog2
Okay now this is like ****ING INSANE to pull but its doable and to awesome not to mention. Basically what you do is ledge dash to ledge hog but on certain ledges you will need to fast fall after the ledge dash back in order to keep invincible. Stages with slanted downward ledges like Yoshi Story, Corneria, and Peach's Castle you can simple just ledge dash back on without fast falling but others with straight ledges you will need to fast fall. Though extremely difficult to pull its fun mixing up your ledge hogging to keep your opponent guessing and if you're the technical type this will be a fun tech to try and get mastered.


6. Edge Guarding Techniques
Your opponent is off the stage but not far enough. Time's running out, act quick to keep them off the stage. Wait, what? You don't know how to keep them from getting back? Let me show you.


a. Ledge Sliding
Ledge sliding is just wave/ledge dashing off the ledge, jumping back towards the stage, and landashing back off (cycle can be repeated as many times as necessary). It can be useful for pressuring your opponent into thinking which way you will edge guard him. Considering at certain points you can choose to either edge hog or do an air attack this can help psych out the opponent but if the opponent has good timing their recovery can hit you at your vulnerable point (the ledge dash) or when your off guard.


b. Reverse Uair
Reverse uair is when you uair while facing away from your opponent causing you to hit with the ending frames of the attack. Its ability to cut through a lot of recoveries and destroy sweet spotting makes it a great edge guarding tool. If you hit with the inner part of the reverse uair you will send your opponent at a more straight out trajectory faster, farther, and with more stun. Fortunate for us they're many ways of executing this technique making your edge guarding attempts more varied.

b1. Wave/Land dash uair
While faced away from the edge wave dash or land dash off and uair. This works best in tight situations where jumping out isn't fast enough for the uair to hit in time. With proper timing you can wave dash uair, double jump uair, and have your upB bring you back on the stage. Main downfall of this tech is if don't kill the opponent before you recover you can either be edge hogged or land while the opponent grabs the edge leaving you open to a ledge hopped attack. An other thing to keep in mind is they're some recoveries that can cut through reverse uair so if you telegraph the attack too much you will be hit out of it.

b2. Platform dash uair
Same strategy as a wave dash uair except its a platform dash. This can be used to edge guard opponents that are fairly out of reach. Since uair is a high attack it can help edge guard opponents recovering above platforms. It can also edge guard opponents off the stage and since you're left at a decent height (assuming you didn't fast fall and uair ASAP) you can either edge hog with your second jump or ledge dash and switch it up from there. Very useful technique from time to time but remember when ever edge guarding off stage on mess up can switch the rolls on who's getting edge guarded and who's edge guarding.

b3. Ledge hop uair
****, do I love this tech. All you do is ledge hop and uair towards the stage. If you time it right you will be able to destroy your opponents sweet spot from under the stage and get and invulnerable attack (if you utilize the ledge invincibility correctly). This means characters like Mario, Doc, Roy, and Peach who have difficult recoveries to edge guard makes their recover easier to edge guard than... well yours.

b4. Ledge drop uair
While hanging on the ledge drop down (regular or fast felled) and hit the cstick up as soon as you let go of the ledge to uair. This is best when edge hogging an opponent and you notice they're trying to change the course of their recovery from the edge to the stage. When they try to go over you as they're below the stage its a great opportunity to drop down and uair. This can also be used to just cut through your opponents recovery as they use it if you utilize the ledge invincibility right. Though if you fast fall uair you cant make it back on stage without grabbing the ledge so not killing your opponent can leave them to easily edge hog you.

b5. Ledge hop uair-to-edge hog
This is a fun little tech and one I used to have a lot of problems with. Easiest way I find to do this tech is hit back to let go of the ledge and HADUKEN that ***** upward and press A. Its uses can be applied to keeping higher recovering opponents off the stage while edge hogging and the fact that you grab the ledge after the uair nullifies any land lag you may have suffered if you just simply ledge hopped uair. It is awesome when opportunities (rare opportunities) occur were you ledge hop uair-to-edge go and ledge drop uair. DAYUM DOES THAT COMBO LOOK F@*#ING SEXY!


c. Dtilt
Dtilt is not really much of an edge guarder and honestly I can only think of few situations where it will actually be useful. One would be versus chars like DK, Mario, and Doc whose heads stick up above the ledge as they hang on it. Sadly though they're not gonna stay there looking at you just wait for their invincibility run out and dtilt them. Two against characters like Ganondorf and C.Falcon who have no sweet spot since their legs go above the ledge during that roll in their upB, dtilt will hit and you can either tilt, jab, or do an air according to the situation.


d. Dair
Thunda drop aka THE STOMP is one of the two spikes Ganon has. Although its a meteor spike the damage and speed it spikes at makes it easy to look over. Its large hitbox that starts from Ganons head and stretches far beyond his feet make the move easy to hit with but its start up speed can be a problem. Spiking through stages is also a plus of this move since you can stand by an edge and dair a opponent recovering next to the stage without jumping off (just dair the ground by the edge) DairStage, 403kb. You can also ledge hop dair but you wont be able to land on the stage, you'll have to double jump and upB back to recover. Though if they meteor cancel it you might end up being edge hogged without a jump. Platform dashing dair by the edge can be helpful from time to time as well. Other than that its execution is just like any other spikes just jump out and do it.


e. Wizards Foot
Ganondorfs only true spike. The fact that you get your jump back after you do it is also a plus since you can double jump off the stage, wizards foot, jump back and upB. If timed right you can also jump and wizards foot the edge and spike an opponent trying to sweet spot.

e1. Platform dash wizards foot
Its done as easy as it sounds, just platform dash on the outer most platform then wizards foot off stage. Since Ganondorfs spike is very strong most characters die at 30% if caught from under the stage. Whiffing it is very bad since you can only recover on the stage on certain stages. Fountain of dreams for example is dependant on the height of the platform. This is a great follow up and when done successfully it gives you free kills.


f. Dash Dance to Edge Hog
While dash dancing if you turn away from the edge the frame you would have fallen off you will fall off looking towards the stage causing you to edge hog. Now there really isn't a trick yet to pull this easily nor are there too many situations where this can be applied effectively but I do know that turning away on the 4th frame and 7-9th frame of the dash seem to be the easiest ones to do it on. I know its hard to tell what frames are up and when you're gonna fall off the stage but that's all I can help you with, the rest takes practice.


g. Jump out Warlock Punch!
You heard right, just jump out and warlock punch. This is the most overlooked edge guarding tech Ganon has. The timing may be difficult but does it pay off well when you get a hit. (NOTE: If you're losing a match horribly, landing one of these will make you feel a lot better.)


h. Utilt Surprise
Aw, what the **** it can't hurt to try this on a n00b or in a random friendly. Remember there is nothing wrong with being flashy over effective, cause when you succeed with flash it looks and feels soo much sweeter.



7. Advance Tactics
They're things other technical ability that are more judgment orientated. If you're not quite sure what some of those things might be then read on below.


a. Directional Influence (DI)
DI is probably one of the most critical parts of smash, proper DI can keep you alive at higher percent and get you out of some disgusting combos. Some of the fundamentals of DI are:
*Attacks that send you at a horizontal trajectory are usually best DIed upward.
*Attacks that send you at a vertical trajectory are usually best DIed across.
*DIing in the same direction of your trajectory will send you further so this can help escape some combos
*Use the level size to your advantage, if your in a high ceiling stage remember DIing up is your best friend. If your in more of a wider stage keeping a neutral or more horizontal DI might be more favorable.
*Don't not confuse DI with air control, DI determines your trajectory so once you're sent flying adjusting your air control accordingly can help you survive a bit longer.


b. Tech Chasing
This is a term used for following someones tech with an attack of some sort. Ganondorf's running speed limits his tech chasing abilities but his range compensates for that. Some characters roll farther than others so depending on who you're facing and how well you react different moves may apply. When it comes to still and short techs Ganon has tons of moves to his disposal so be creative and find what works best for you. Further techs may limit your moves to forwardB, downB, fair, and bair. Even though further techs limit your moves if any of them hit chances are you'll be in an edge guard position which is never bad for Ganondorf.


c. Chain Grabbing
Certain characters can be grabbed over and over again by throwing them down and following their DI. Some are easier than others (i.e. Pikachu, Roy, and Link) while some can only be chain grabbed till they DI behind you (i.e. DK and Ganon). Even though some consider this rather cheap racking up damage and finishing with an air can get you a free stock so why not?


d. Shield Poking
Shield Poking is a technique used to hit someone while they're shielding. While Ganondorf may not have the best shield poking tools his main shield poking moves are dtilt and bair. Dtilt is great when legs are exposed while shielding and since it knocks them up there's a combo opportunity if successful. Bair on the other hand is a little more tricky, since its the closest thing Ganondorf has to a sex kick when spaced right you can drop down on opponents who are shielding with their heads exposed (i.e. Marth) and hit them with a rather powerful attack and since bair has great range good spacing can keep you from getting shield grabbed if you're not successful.


e. Extended Shield Grab
The title may sound fancy but its simply grabbing by up B'ing out of your shield instead of the normal grab. This is very useful if you find your opponent spacing just out of reach while shield grabbing and jumping out of your shield just aren't good enough to retaliate with. Though you can put yourself at a major disadvantage if your opponent is at low percents especially fast fallers.

e1. Reverse shield grab
Same idea as the extended shield grab but when an opponent is behind you. On occasion you will encounter opponents who like to cross over their airs (shffl and land behind you), this obviously nerfs any shield grab attempt but if you utilize your upB and aim it towards them you can teach them that is doesn't matter where you land next to Ganondorf, whiff something and SUFFER!


f. Edge Tech/Wall Tech
Right before you're hit press and hold block, the window of the tech is rather large so holding block a bit before an attack is no problem. When recovering from off the stage upB and hug the wall as much as possible and DI towards the stage while holding block (directional influence is important for teching certain attacks). They're two types of teching, a regular tech where you simply tech and drop down and then you have your wall jump. Both are great since you deny death but if you play your cards right you can get an offensive advantage.

f1. Edge tech to bair/uair
Certain attacks that suck you in (i.e. Peach's downsmash) don't require you do DI towards the stage since the hit will knock you into it anyways. With this in mind intentionally DIing up and wall jump teching to bair/uair is a great retaliation with teching an attack instead of hoping for upB to connect. Also if you find yourself in a situation where you're below the stage and there isn't much you can do but jump, upB, and hope for the best try saving the jump, upB, and DI towards the stage and preform a regular tech followed by a double jumped air. This is a real helpful trick but don't get carried away with teching every time the opportunity is there because getting predictable with this means edge hog, and edge hogs will most likely kill you.


g. Gerudo Dragon Feints
They're two ways to cancel the gerudo dragon, you can either do it right as you jump through a platform or ledge, or you can do it towards a wall to cancel it out. Though other than the wall feints this tech can back fire quickly. People will catch on to this quick if you over use it but it never hurts to mess with the opponent from time to time.

g1. Wall
Gerudo dragon towards a wall and it'll cancel immediately. Common mind games with this is Gerudo dragon towards the wall then towards the opponent which is super predictable and highly un-original (trust me you're not the only person whose tricked their friends with it). Try just doing it to do it no need to retaliate with an attack, use it more as a means to feel your opponent out just dont get arrested in the proccess.

g2. Platform
At about the same height of a ledge dash the Gerudo dragon cancels out on a platform. This is probably one the least useful feint since it has twice the lag of a WD that you could have done in the same spot though the pull back of the fist can make them throw out a whiffed attack. A rather nice trick you can do is fall through the platform and right away forwardB this can result in two things, platform cancel or the Gerudo dragon will fly out and be ledge cancel in which you can really take advantage of the lack of lag if the opponent under estimates your position.

g3. Ledge hop
Same approach as the platform canceled variation except being read on this trick will result in a very bad situation for you. Over anxious opponents seem to fall for this more often than others so if you're versing someone just simply waiting for an opening you might want to use different means of recovering.
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
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Location
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8. Character Match Up List

8. Character Match Up List
Advantage (for Ganon)
Bowser..medium/big..
Mewtwo..medium/big..
Kirby..medium/big..
Pichu..medium/big..
Zelda..medium/big..
Y.Link..medium..
Pikachu..medium..
G&W..medium..
Yoshi..medium..
Luigi..medium/small..
Ness..medium/small..
Roy..medium/small..
DK..medium/small..
Mario..medium/small..
Dr.Mario..medium/small..
Link..medium/small..
Jigglypuff..small..
Samus..small..

Null (even or highly stage dependant)
Ganon
Peach
Marth

Disadvantage (against Ganon)
Sheik..GOD STOP HER (from jerkin me off :chuckle: )..
Falco..medium/big..
Fox..medium/big..
C.Falcon..medium/big..
Ice climbers..medium..

NOTE: if you want to discuss any of the character match ups or want to share your 2cents on placement of the chars versus Ganon respond in this thread: http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=804600#post804600. Also not to confuse the purpose of this "List" with the other, this list will have some opinion based strategies and approaches while the other list is more of a public point of view on the matches.
NOTE2: the characters ganon has an advantage vs can beat him but depending on which character it will be a difficult battle for them. like wise for the character ganon has problems with.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Below is a character specific list, pointing out advantages for each character in the match up. its a bit simple, I'll work on it though. Any suggestions will be great.

Legend
+ = good/advantage
- = bad/disadvantage
? = questionable
/ = Slight
Speed = Attack speed (don't wanna get anyone confused)
Lag = Jump lag and L-cancel lag

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon vs Bowser
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Range
+Speed
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Edge guarding
+Lag
+/Air mobility
-/Weight
-Recovery
?Power

Bowser
+Projectile
+/Weight
+/Edge guarding
-/Evasive tactics
-/Range
-Recovery
-Air mobility
-Mobility
-Lag
-Speed
?Power


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Spikes (including reverse uair) can KO Bowser early due to his lack of a vertical recovery.
Stage CounterPicks

Bowser
*Fsmash can catch Ganon trying to sweet spot.
Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon vs C.Falcon
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+/Weight
+/Edge guarding
-/Evasive tactics
-/Lag
-/Speed
-Mobility
-Air mobility
-Recovery

C.Falcon
+Mobility
+Air mobility
+Edge guarding
+Evasive tactics
+Lag
+/Speed
-/Range
-/Weight
-/Power
-Recovery


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can chain grab C.Falcon.
*Diagonal up Ftilts often break up C.Falcon's SHFFL'd attacks.
*Reverse Uair... best... edgeguard... EVER!

Stage CounterPicks
Yoshi's Story
Battlefield
Fountain of Dreams


C.Falcon
*C.Falcon can combo Ganon from grabs fairly easily.
*Utilt is actually useful for edge guarding unlike Ganons.
*SHFFLd nairs can suffocate Ganons game.

Stage CounterPicks
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium
Dreamland


NOTE ON COUNTER STAGES: Ganon seems to do a lot better in situations where he cramps C.Falcons space but that doesn't necessarily reflect on the out come of certain matches. Some of these counter stages may be more based on preference than their countability (um, hope that made sense).
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs DK
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Speed
+Edge guarding
+/Power
+/Lag
-/Evasive tactics
-/Air mobility
-/Range
-/Mobility
-/Weight
-Recovery

DK
+Edge guarding
+Range
+/Weight
+/Mobility
+/Evasive tactics
+/Air mobility
-/Power
-/Speed
-/Recovery
-/Lag


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Spikes (including reverse uair) can KO DK early due to his lack of a vertical recovery.
Stage CounterPicks

DK
*Cargo up throw can set up for an easy charged punch.
*Uair can combo Ganon well due to his weight.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Dr.Mario
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Range
+Power
+Weight
-/Air mobility
-/Edge guarding
-/Speed
-/Mobility
-Evasive tactics
-Recovery
-Lag

Dr.Mario
+Projectile
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Recovery
+/Speed
+/Air mobility
+/Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can use the cape recovery (Dr.Mario recovering) to his advantage with uair and semi-spike.
*Spacing with tilts and bair can keep Dr.Mario at a comfortable distance.
*Using up B to recover faced away from the stage can save you sometimes from the cape.

Stage CounterPicks

Dr.Mario
*His cape can and almost always will kill Ganons recovery.
*Dash attack cant be shield grabbed until Dr.Mario's head is in grabbing range.
*At certain percents dtrow to fair connects.
*Cape = teh ****.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Falco
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Air mobility
-/Mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery
-Evasive tactics

Falco
+Projectile
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Air mobility
+/Mobility
-Power
-Range
-Weight
-Recovery


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Any of Falco's recoveries reverse uaired = free stock.
*Ganon can chain grab Falco.
*Dair/Dsmash/Gerudo dragon are great set ups for airs.
*PSing is your best friend.

Stage CounterPicks
Battlefield
Dream Land
Pokemon Stadium


Falco
*Blasters can destroy Ganons recovery with wizards foot.
*Ganons lack of a sweet spot can get him spiked.
*Shine combos makes Ganon mince meat.
*Utilt can combo Ganon well.

Stage CounterPicks
Final Destination
Corneria
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Fox
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Air mobility
-Mobility
-Evasive tactics
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery

Fox
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding (can anyone say "shine")
+/Recovery
+/Projectile
+/Air mobility
-Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Firefox is an easy way for Fox to get spiked.
*Ganon can chain grab Fox.
*Dair/Dsmash/Gerudo dragon are great set ups for airs.

Stage CounterPicks
Dream Land
Fountain of Dreams
Kongo Jungle
Battle Field*


Fox
*Ganon can be waveshined with little effort.
*He can also be shined off stage with ease due to his recovery.
*Uair combos can rack up some major damage.

Stage CounterPicks
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium
Corneria

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs G&W
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Evasive tactics
+/Speed
+/Edge guarding
+/Recovery
+/Lag
-/Mobility
-Air mobility

G&W
+Air mobility
+/Recovery
+/Mobility
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Projectile
-/Power
-/Speed
+Edge guarding
-/Range
-/Lag
-Weight
-Evasive tactics


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganons uair can destroy G&W recovery.
Stage CounterPicks

G&W
*G&W can crouch out of Ganons grab range.
*Dtilt is great for edge guarding and can kill at rather low percents.
*G&Ws warp possibly has enough space to avoid Ganons uair at the edge.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Ice climbers
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Edge guarding
+Range
+Weight
+/Evasive tactics
-/Air mobility
-/Mobility
-/Speed
-/Lag
-Recovery

Ice climbers
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Projectile
+Edge guarding
+/Lag
+/Air mobility
+/Recovery
+/Mobility
+/Disjointed hitbox
+/Range
-/Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Nana doesn't recover when spiked unless Popo jumps out to save her.
*When Popo gets Dair'd his upB doesn't save him if he's alone and a good distance from the stage.
*Reverse uair on grounded ICs sends them far due to their low traction.

Stage CounterPicks

Ice climbers
*Ice climbers can chain grab/grab combo Ganon due to his size and weight.
*Ganon cannot successfully grab Ice climbers often without the Nana interrupting.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Jiggypuff
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Mobility
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+/Evasive tactics
-/Speed
-/Edge guarding
-/Lag
-Air mobility
-Recovery

Jigglypuff
+Air mobility
+Recovery
+Edge guarding
+/Lag
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
-/Range
-Mobility
-Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Properly placed uairs can hit in an angle good for an anti WoP.
*Dtilt and ftilt help maintain space between Jigglypuff and Ganon.
*Pivoting Fsmashes are a great counter for a whiffed pound.
*Pivoting Ftilts can be great for retaliating against shortly retreated bairs.

Stage CounterPicks

Jigglypuff
*WoP can combo Ganon 4-5 hits off the stage.
*Utilt/uair + rest can equal a deadly combo that Ganon isn't immune to (bair to uair is an other dangerous rest set up).
*Jigglypuff can crouch out of Ganons grab range.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Kirby
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Edge guarding
+Range
+Weight
-/Mobility
-/Speed
-Evasive tactics-Lag
-Air mobility
-Recovery

Kirby
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Air mobility
+/Evasive tactics
+/Mobility
+/Speed
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Recovery
-Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Up smash knocks Kirby out of his stone form if both hits land.
*Its retardedly easy for Ganon (or anyone) to shake out of Kirby's back or forward throw.

Stage CounterPicks

Kirby
*Kirby can suck Ganon (...) and walk off the ledge, occasionally receiving cheap KO's.
*Kirby can crouch out of Ganons grab range.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Link
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+/Range
+/Weight
+/Mobility
+/Edge guarding
-/Evasive tactics
-/Speed
-/Air mobility
-Recovery
-Lag

Link
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Projectile
+Disjointed hitbox
+/Air mobility
+/Recovery
+/Evasive tactics
-/Speed
-/Mobility
-/Range
-/Weight
-Power


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair can cut through Links recovery with no repercussions.
*Ganon can chain grab Link.

Stage CounterPicks

Link
*Boomerangs/arrows/bombs can clog up the playing field
*Utilt can combo Ganon.
*A returning boomerang can knock Link out of a grab.
*Up B can semi spike Ganons recovery far too easily... FAR TOO EASY!

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Luigi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Air mobility
-Speed
-Mobility
-Evasive tactics
-Lag
-Recovery

Luigi
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+/Edge guarding
+/Projectile
+/Air mobility
-Power
-Recovery
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair can send Luigi sliding across the stage due to his low traction.
Stage CounterPicks

Luigi
*Luigi can attack and retreat quickly with SH airs to landdash
Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Mario
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Range
+Power
+Weight
-/Air mobility
-/Edge guarding
-/Speed
-/Mobility
-Evasive tactics
-Recovery
-Lag

Mario
+Projectile
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Recovery
+/Air mobility
-/Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can use the cape recovery (Mario recovering) to his advantage with uair and semi-spike.
*Spacing with tilts and bair can keep Mario at a comfortable distance.
*Using up B to recover faced away from the stage can save you sometimes from the cape.

Stage CounterPicks

Mario
*His cape almost always kills Ganons recovery.
*Uair and utilt combo well against Ganon.
*Dash attack cant be shield grabbed until Mario's head is in grabbing range.
*Cape = teh ****.
*Fair to fsmash works on Ganon at mid percents.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Marth
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Weight
+/Power
+/Edge guarding
-/Range
-/Air mobility
-/Evasive tactics
-Speed
-Lag
-Mobility
-Recovery

Marth
+Disjointed hitbox
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Range
+/Recovery
+/Air mobility
-/Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair can hurt Marth's recovery bad.
*The speed of gerudo dragon and wizards foot can be used to counter a missed fsmash.
*Bair can get through a lot, if not all of Marth's airs
*Gerudo dragon can push Marth far enough to avoid getting shield grabbed.
*Downthrow leads to uair or bair almost always.

Stage CounterPicks
Dream Land
Yoshi's Story
Fountain of Dreams
Battle Field


Marth
*Ganon can get comboed by fairs.
*Fsmash has a huge hitbox that is impenetrable by Ganon's airs or tilts.
*The third hit of dancing dolphin (downB only) knocks Ganon far enough for him to shield grab

Stage CounterPicks
Pokemon Stadium
Final Destination

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Mewtwo
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Weight
+/Range
+/Lag
+/Edge guarding
+/Evasive tactics
+/Air mobility
-/Mobility
-/Speed
-/Recovery

Mewtwo
+Evasive tactics
+/Projectile
+/Mobility
+/Speed
+/Edge guarding
+/Recovery
-/Air mobility
-/Lag
-/Range
-Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Dtilts set up Mewtwo for airs at low percents.
Stage CounterPicks

Mewtwo
*Fair combos work well on Ganon in low/medium percents.
Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Ness
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
+/Evasive tactics
-/Mobility
-Air mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery

Ness
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Air mobility
+/Projectile
+/Mobility
+/Evasive tactics
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Recovery
-/Range
-Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ness' recovery leads him to get edgehogged or retaliated on easily.
Stage CounterPicks

Ness
*SHFF'd fairs and dash attacks can out range some of Ganons attacks with its disjointed hitboxes.
*Ness can crouch out of Ganons grab range.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Peach
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
+/Mobility
+/Evasive tactics
-/Air mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Recovery

Peach
+Projectile
+Recovery
+Air mobility
+Speed
+Lag (float cancel)
+Edge guarding
+/Power
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Mobility
-/Evasive tactics
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can catch Peach's turnips and use them to his advantage.
*SHFF reverse uair + ftilt works well on peach due to her good traction.
*Dair beside a recovering peach can spike her without much risk of the umbrella interrupting you.

Stage CounterPicks
Final Destination
Pokemon Stadium


Peach
*Peach can do aerial attacks with turnips in hand.
*Downsmash edge guard disables Ganons ability to edge tech and survive.
*Float canceled dsmash combos work good on Ganon.
*Usmash has priority and makes Peach's head and arms invincible causing some hurt to Ganon's air game.
*Ganons edge tech can get him sucked into multi hits if Peach downsmash.

Stage CounterPicks
Fountain of Dreams
Battle Field
Dream Land
Mute City
Yoshi's Story*

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Pichu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Edge guarding
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+/Evasive tactics
-Recovery
-Air mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Mobility

Pichu
+Recovery
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Air mobility
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Disjointed hitbox
-/Projectile
-Range
-Weight
-Self inflicted damage
-Power


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

Stage CounterPicks

Pichu
*Pichu can crouch out of Ganons grab range.
Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Pikachu
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Edge guarding
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+/Evasive tactics
-Recovery
-Air mobility
-Speed
-Lag
-Mobility

Pikachu
+Recovery
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Air mobility
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+/Disjointed hitbox
+/Projectile
-/Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

Stage CounterPicks

Pikachu
*Pikachu can crouch out of Ganons grab range.
*Pikachu's jumping speed and nair outprioritize a lot of Ganons airs.
*Uair can kill Ganon at 0%! GIMP KO!

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Roy
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Weight
+Edge guarding
+/Range
+/Speed
-/Air mobility
-/Evasive tactics
-/Lag
-Recovery
-Mobility

Roy
+Disjointed hitbox
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Air mobility
+Edge guarding
+/Lag
-/Speed
-/Recovery
-/Range
-Power
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair can kill Roy's recovery, though usually it'll be a trade of blows.
*Roys aerials can be CCld and countered if he hits with the tip.

Stage CounterPicks

Roy
*Ganons strength works against him if Roy uses his counter.
Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Samus
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Edge guarding
+/Power
+/Range
-/Speed
-/Weight (Ganon =109/Samus = 110)
-/Mobility
-/Air mobility
-/Evasive tactics
-Recovery
-Lag

Samus
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Recovery
+Projectile
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
+/Weight
+/Mobility
+/Air mobility
-/Power
-/Range


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair, edge hog is a free stock on Samus once she has used her grapple.
*Gerudo punch can go past Samus' missiles (close shot missiles get you on occasion).
*Downthrow can lead to a lot of airs including double bairs (depending on DI and percent).
*CCing does not exist for Samus in this match up

Stage CounterPicks

Samus
*Missle spamming can destroy Ganons recovery with wizards foot.
*Utilt is an ultimate edgeuarder Vs Ganon.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Sheik
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+/Edge guarding
-Evasive tactics
-Speed
-Lag
-Air mobility
-Mobility
-Recovery

Sheik
+Mobility
+Evasive tactics
+Speed
+Lag
+Edge guarding
+Air mobility
+/Recovery
+/Projectile
-Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can chain grab Sheik.
Stage CounterPicks

Sheik
*Sheik can chain grab Ganon (in NTSC).
*Tilt combos work good on Ganon.
*Needles can be used to destroy his recovery.
*Sheik can crouch out of Ganon's grab range.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Yoshi
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Edge guarding
+Power
+/Range
+/Weight (Ganon =109/Yoshi = 108)
+/Evasive tactics
-/Lag
-/Speed
-Recovery
-Air mobility
-Mobility

Yoshi
+Lag
+Projectile
+Mobility
+Edge guarding
+Air mobility
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
-/Range
-/Weight
-Power
-Recovery


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Any of Ganons airs can neutralize Yoshi's second jump at fairly low percents.
Stage CounterPicks

Yoshi
*DjC can sneak in airs even if Yoshi's hit.
*F/Utilts can combo Ganon.
*Yoshi can occasionally crouch out of Ganons grab range (when he rocks back).

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Y.Link
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Range
+Weight
+Edge guarding
-/Evasive tactics
-/Mobility
-/Speed
-/Air mobility
-/Recovery
-Lag

Y.Link
+Lag
+Projectile
+/Disjointed hitbox
+/Mobility
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
+/Edge guarding
+/Air mobility
+/Recovery
-Power
-Range
-Weight


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Reverse uair can cut through Y.Links recovery with no repercussions.
*Ganon can chain grab Y.Link.

Stage CounterPicks

Y.Link
*Boomerangs/arrows/bombs can clog up the playing field
*Utilt can combo Ganon.
*A returning boomerang can knock Y.Link out of a grab.

Stage CounterPicks
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ganon Vs Zelda
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ganon
+Power
+Weight
+Mobility
+/Range
+/Edge guarding
+/Evasive tactics
-/Speed
-/Lag
-Recovery
-Air mobility

Zelda
+Recovery
+Air mobility
+Edge guarding
+/Evasive tactics
+/Speed
+/Lag
-/Projectile
-/Range
-/Power
-Weight
-Mobility


___________________
Strategical advantages
Ganon

*Ganon can double jump over her fair and proceed with a counter.
Stage CounterPicks

Zelda
*At low percents Zelda can catch Ganon with two fairs in a row.
Stage CounterPicks
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
9. Video Links

9. Video Links
If you have any vids of your Ganondorf and you have them on Rapidshare, File Front, Mega upload, or an other server that last more than a week post or PM me the link so I can put it in this section. Oh, and make sure you don't suck ;) . Also if you have and questions or comments about any of the videos below make sure you post them on their appropiate thread or PM the users with your questions and such. Notice the topic title now has "ver 1.X" in it, everytime a new vid is added to this section or is updated .1 will be added to the version number.
1vs1

Maximuspita
RUM & Smash Singles Finals, Comment
Link (Lord HDL) Vs Ganondorf (Maximus)1
Link (Lord HDL) Vs Ganondorf (Maximus)2
Link (Lord HDL) Vs Ganondorf (Maximus)3
Link (Lord HDL) Vs Ganondorf (Maximus)4
Link (Lord HDL) Vs Ganondorf (Maximus)5

Dorf1233
Dorf1233 Vs DynaDash Friendlies, Comment
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) vs Samus (Dyna Dash)1
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) Vs Samus (Dyna Dash)2
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) Vs Samus (Dyna Dash)3
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) Vs Samus (Dyna Dash)4
Dorf1233 Vs DynaDash Friendlies 2, Comment (no link yet)
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) Vs Falco (Dyna Dash)1
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) Vs Falco (Dyna Dash)2
Random YouTube Matches
Ganondorf (Dorf1233) vs Samus (DynaDash)

Thomas Tipman/Raffa
SACS Issue#1 Singles and finals, Comment
Ganondorf/DA (Raffa) vs Ganondorf/Tomx (Tipman) 1
Ganondorf/DA (Raffa) vs Ganondorf/Tomx (Tipman) 2
C.Falcon (Mavrick) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 1
C.Falcon (Mavrick) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 4
Peach (Comp) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 1
Peach (Comp) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 2
Peach (Comp) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 3
Peach (Comp) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 5
Falco (Flowin) vs Ganondorf (Tipman) 1

xXx-NoobKing-xXx
B.C. Canada Smashfest 2.11.06, Comment
Peach (zPhoenixExz) vs Ganondorf (xXx-NoobKing-xXx) 1

Eddie
Random YouTube Matches
Ganondorf (Eddie) vs Marth (Husband)
Ganondorf (Eddie) vs Bowser (Luke)

Ken
Random YouTube Matches
Ganondorf (Ken) vs Samus (Aniki)

2vs2

Get Commited
Raffa(Ganon-HIT) & Tipman(Ganon-****) vs GAwes(C.Falcon) & MikeG(Peach) 1
Raffa(Ganon-HIT) & Tipman(Ganon-****) vs GAwes(C.Falcon) & MikeG(Peach) 2

Misc.
Triforce of Power Download, Comment
This is a vid I made on how to play Ganon, it has the advanced techniques as well as ledge techs and edge guarding techs. If you don't know exactly what I mean when you read on the techs this vid will clear a lot of it up for you.
A Mexican Ganon Vid by Dorf1233 Download, Comment
This is a combo/compilation vid done by Dorf1233. Its a good Ganon vid with some nice free style combos (by free style I mean he actually used warlock punch and hit with it :laugh: ). Definetly a fun vid to watch.
Lethal Dorf 2 Download, Comment
This is a sequal to Dorf1233's Letal Dorf and its HIGHLY improved video quality and combo wise. Definetly recommended you download this video you wont be disappointed.

And special thanks to AngeloBangelo for helping me at 3:57am with Ganons upsmash damage, MookieRah for posting my name with sooooooooo many letters, and everyone who contributed their videos to the guide. Well I'm tired as **** so hope you guys enjoyed the guide, updates will be soon.

-Peace
 

AngeloBangelo

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
1,819
First comment w00t! The guide isn't even up yet, but I can already tell you're just going to be like "OMFG JUST LIKE USE THE REVERSE UAIRS A LOT VS FALCON 4 TEH WINZ!" Just kidding, I'm sure it will be really good. When it's up, I'll read it and give you my thoughts.

Edit: So far it's really good. Very detailed, but not too detailed so that it's a pain to read through. It's very well organized and the seperation of colors makes it really easy to read. I also really like the moves hitboxes all displayed through Action Replay. Totally sexy. I can't wait to see the rest of the guide. Hopefully this will get stickied when it's completed.

Edit: I just wanted to say that 3:57 AM or not, I'm always willing to help out. A good smasher never sleeps... If you need anything else, I'm more than willing to lend a hand.
 

MookieRah

Kinda Sorta OK at Smash
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
5,384
Location
Umeå, Sweden
THOMAS TIIIIIIIIPPPPPPMMMMMMAAAAANNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I just had to get that out of my system.

Good clux on the guide yo.

Also

ANNGEELLOOOBAAANNGGELLLOOO!!!!!!!!

Just for the hell of it.
 

AngeloBangelo

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 19, 2005
Messages
1,819
There actually are a few videos of Tipman vs Synikal if you want to use the search function/DC++. Although I do have to agree that I can't get enough Tipman at any point in time.

MOOOOOOOOOKIIIIIIIIIIIIERAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!

Also, something I'd like to see is more detail on a few of the moves. For example, you don't mention when Dair should be most often used. I mean, it's obviously not good to just run into an opponent using Dair. I usually use when my back is to an opponent since Bair CAN reach, but it's difficult because you have to time it differently than you do with most Bairs. Dair also takes a huge chunk out of their shield.
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,619
Location
Israel
yeah and u should also mantion it hits through platforms too w00t!
and yeah i saw those, real great btw
so far great job, the hitbox clips own (dair and dash grab mostly)
 

Nihonjin

Striving 4 Perfection
BRoomer
Joined
Feb 1, 2005
Messages
2,867
Location
Amsterdam, Holland
I havn't even read it and I don't play ganon...but maaaaaan that looks like one hell of a guide, good job man keep it up O_o

- Nihonjin
 

Uno

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 6, 2005
Messages
346
Location
NJ
Wow, this guide is delicious, I love the AR clips.

The match ups are nice an to the point.

Looks like its coming along nice and smooth, good work.
Most definitely a new top tier Gannon guide in the works.
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
glad you guys like it so far, there is still alot i wanna cover in this guide and the character specifics and notes on the moves will be elaborated on some more. main reason i put it out now is so you guys can get the hitbox clips. i noticed alot of people asking about how the hitboxes look around the forums and i figured this would be the best way to answer those questions. expect some major updates in 2-3 weeks. oh and i finished uploading the hitboxclips on the other moves so now you can see the moves that you couldnt see before (LIEK UB ANGLDZ FSMASH!).
 

Thomaz

Smash Lord
Joined
May 2, 2004
Messages
1,055
Location
Leiden, The Netherlands
Wow, good stuff. I like the guide so far. Makes want to play Ganon again (yeah, again. <_______<). Keep it up, I'm looking forward for the rest. ^____^
 

dmac

Smash Champion
Joined
Jun 9, 2003
Messages
2,773
Location
St, Joseph, MO
not having the actual AR data myself i would have sworn the hitbox for thunder punch and standing grab extended slightly behind ganon as well, very cool to find this out. having the animated gifs for hitboxes makes this already one of the best guides ever :)
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
thanks for the thumbs up guys im in the middle of getting the advance techniques down and i have a new section im putting in called "Advance Tactics" which is just things like tech chasing, DI, wall tech and other stuff that doesnt quite fit in the other categories. also just a few hours ago i figured out a new infinite edge hog with ganon that looks ub3r sexy but is hella hard to do (ill be adding that in aswell to the guide... but it honestly is hella hard).

oh and i also found that for some reason when you ledge hop your not affeced by land lag. pretty cool to ledge hop and ftilt lighning quick (well 5 frames earlier may not be "lighning quick" but its cool).

maximus: i think usea has a site with some hitbox comparison such as docs and marios bairs but i dont know of anything else. hopefully within 2 weeks i should get angelo bangelo cfalcons hitboxes for that bad *** cfalcon guide of his so you could keep a look out for those.
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
*update

i just put in the advance techniques and ledge techniques. im pretty sure it will help out alot of newbies to ganon aswell as the pros. let me know if you guys feel somehting should be added that i might have forgotten. also i put the new infinite edge hog tech i said i figured out a few days ago. pretty sure some of you guys might have known it already but its good reads for the rest of us.
 

shadowhunter

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Aug 20, 2004
Messages
247
Location
zaandam
Sweet **** :)
keep up the work for this fabolous(spelled correctly?) guide which is already the best out there even if it's just the hitbox thingy's
 

Peglegington

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 2, 2005
Messages
6
Yes, yes, good stuff. I have more of a random question, though. In those video links of the finals featuring Ganondorf and Link melees, the creator used the most intoxicating versions of video game sound tracks and I wanted to know if you possibly know who they're by or something?

And, uh, to try and keep this post on topic again... great guide.
 

Lemming 1545

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
211
One thing I'd really like to see would be the hitboxes for Ganondorf's two rising attacks, as they don't seem to be there currently. This guide is coming along awesomely, though, Tipman. Much more useful data and assessments than can be found in Shin~Ganondorf's guide, which is saying something, because his guide inspired me to play Ganondorf in the first place. : P Keep it coming!
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
yeah i will put those rising attacks later on today maybe. one thing about shins guide that i liked is that it was written with a lot of enthusiasum and thats something that really made it fun to read his guide.
 

Lemming 1545

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
211
Haha, yes, exactly! It wasn't a strategy or technical guide so much as a really good inspirational manual. I read it and by the end I'm thinking, "geeze, I can't lose!" It's one of those "never give up" type things.
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
It's one of those "never give up" type things.
yeah seriously, it was very inspirational.

UPDATE!!!! i have the edge guarding section up and im sure it will help alot of peeps with some new techs. hope you guys enjoy and hopefully if i get some time ill try getting some vids of my own up.
 

Infinite_Justice

Smash Rookie
Joined
Sep 14, 2005
Messages
3
woo, my first post with a decent question, at least thats how i feel. Im having a problem ledge hop u-air. I understand the concept of using back on the c stick to let go of the edge, then jump with the analog , and u-air to the ledge. Sometimes tho, when i tap back on the c stick, I just fall and do a back air. I want to fix the problem but i dont actually understand why that is happening.

ps - awesome guide
 

Vall3y

Smash Lord
Joined
Jul 10, 2005
Messages
1,619
Location
Israel
the uair stuff is cool
and i never though platform dashing down b
but what about bair edgeguard?
 

Thomas Tipman

Smash Champion
Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
2,611
Location
South Florida where its hot!
infinite justice: no problem, every now and then it happens to me as well but as you get used to doing it the right way will happen less often.

vall3y: well i guess i should have added something but its just jump out and bair nothing too it but to do it *trademarks*. i didnt want to go into every little detail as i mentioned in my intro such as jump out fair, bair, nair, uair, ect. i didnt even want to put dair in but since its a meteor i felt i had to mention it in some way. if you have some specific bair start that i may have over looked tell me and if it significant ill definetly throw it in the guide. main thing im really trying to keep away from while making this guide is putting a staple on how to play ganon. id be alot happier if i gave people ideas instead of styles of play.

blackomegamage: even though our G&W vs ganon convo ended long ago recently ive been picking up G&W and have gotten pretty decent with him. would you say its safe to think that ganons best stages versus him are stages with low bottoms? i noticed in princess peaches castle i couldnt really sweet spot soo well and edge guarding G&W on that stage was to easy for my friends. i didnt really test it out but what other stages does G&W really lose his edge (no pun intended)?

lemming: i should have the rising attacks up by today, though theyre not that impressive.
 

Lemming 1545

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
211
Thomas Tipman said:
lemming: i should have the rising attacks up by today, though theyre not that impressive.
Hey, every little thing in this game counts! I figure it'll be useful to help judge the range at which I can activate them. By the way, that edgeguarding stuff is genius - I've already landed a Warlock Punch. Stunned my opponent so bad that I got a free hit when he respawned while he was ranting. XD
 
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