Patches Ultimate Needs

Nagol

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#1
This is just a list of things that I generally think would improve quality of life for the game. I'm sure a lot of the points that i'm bringing up have already been said by more popular and bigger names but here are just a few things that hopefully the community will agree would improve the game.


SMASH
* Change rule set on the fly without needing to re-pick stage/characters.(re-picking stage is fine)
* SSS

- Turn hazards off while selecting map (singular button push)​
- Create page for favorite maps (custom stage list)​
* CSS
- Leave players on last selected character after match​
- Increase hand speed slightly for selecting character and such​
* Doubles
- Increase vibrancy of surrounding team color​
- Make inkling ink color one singular color when multiple inklings are on the same team.​
- - Make inkling ink color not the same as enemy team color​
ONLINE
* Add online doubles (friend)
* Add 1v1 competitive rules as a stand alone option

- Every month players vote on rule set​
- Every month players vote which stages are used​
- Allow one stage ban before each match​
* Allow character switching between rematches
* Add other game modes such as squad strike
* Leave quickplay alone and add other stand alone options instead.

- Set none preferred rules​
GAMES & MORE

* Allow replays to be saved for Mob Smash
* Add Home-Run Contest back in

- Allow replays to be saved
* Stage builder
 
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Luigifan18

Smash Champion
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#2
Games & More

  • Allow replays to be saved for Mob Smash
  • Add Home-Run Contest back in
    • Allow replays to be saved for Home-Run Contest
  • Add Stage Builder back in

Seriously, why did the game that added so much to what could be done with replays remove most of the ways to make them?!
 
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MG_3989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
321
#3
I think the main change I want is fixing online matchmaking. If I say I want items off and no hazards and a seven minute 3 stock match there’s no reason I should get a three minute match with items.

Also it makes a ton of sense to spilt up quick play into competitive and casual modes so you don’t have to put your rank on the line when you’re not playing your best or just want to have fun

Other than that I’m really happy with the game
 

Nagol

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#4
I think the main change I want is fixing online matchmaking. If I say I want items off and no hazards and a seven minute 3 stock match there’s no reason I should get a three minute match with items.

Also it makes a ton of sense to spilt up quick play into competitive and casual modes so you don’t have to put your rank on the line when you’re not playing your best or just want to have fun

Other than that I’m really happy with the game
I like the idea of quick play as a way to just get fast games and maybe someone wants to play your rule set and maybe not. Then the individual game modes might take longer to get matches but it's exactly what it says it is and no shenanigans.
 

Crystanium

Smash Hero
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Messages
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#5
The title of this thread should be called, "Patches I want for Ultimate" or "Patches I think Ultimate needs". Wants aren't needs. I'm fine with how SSBU currently is. I found out today that if your connection isn't good, you cannot do Quickplay. While that annoyed me today, I saw the good aspect from it. You probably don't want to play against people in a poor connection, and you probably don't want people reporting you for something that's not in your control. I was able to play about a minute after. Thank you for this feature, Nintendo.
 

MG_3989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
321
#6
I like the idea of quick play as a way to just get fast games and maybe someone wants to play your rule set and maybe not. Then the individual game modes might take longer to get matches but it's exactly what it says it is and no shenanigans.
I understand the appeal of it, I’d just rather wait for a match with my rule set especially if it effects my rank
 

GhostYB

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
91
#8
I think the main change I want is fixing online matchmaking. If I say I want items off and no hazards and a seven minute 3 stock match there’s no reason I should get a three minute match with items.

Also it makes a ton of sense to spilt up quick play into competitive and casual modes so you don’t have to put your rank on the line when you’re not playing your best or just want to have fun

Other than that I’m really happy with the game
eh, havent really had a problem with online anymore after 1.20, all my matches are 1v1s and the lag isnt that bad anymore

however, can they add back the ability to change your menu music again? like, wtf
 
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RealPokeFan11

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452
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The Shadows
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#9
-Bring back Smash Run
-Bring back descriptions for Spirits (previously used for trophies)
-Allow us to change characters, music, or stages while on line for Battle Arenas without kicking us off the line.
-Allow us to play tournaments online
-Allow us to change the menu music
-Add a "set all to high" button for My Music so I don't have to gothrough 70 tracks for every stage, and set them all to high.
-Allow us to set custom messages for online mode

These are some of the things that I came up with off the top of my head. If I think of more, I'll add them here.
 
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Luigifan18

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#11
eh, havent really had a problem with online anymore after 1.20, all my matches are 1v1s and the lag isnt that bad anymore

however, can they add back the ability to change your menu music again? like, wtf
-Bring back Smash Run
-Bring back descriptions for Spirits (previously used for trophies)
-Allow us to change characters, music, or stages while on line for Battle Arenas without kicking us off the line.
-Allow us to change the menu music
-Add a "set all to high" button for My Music so I don't have to go through 70 tracks for every stage, and set them all to high.
-Allow us to set custom messages for online mode

These are some of the things that I came up with off the top of my head. If I think of more, I'll add them here.
You can change the menu music, actually. However, you need to clear Adventure Mode first. (I'm not sure if you need 100% completion or just the true ending; I got both at the same time.)

As for Smash Run, that would be nice, but realistically, it would be a very tall order.
I'd really like if you could select "segments" of moving levels.
Some spirit battles take place on a single setpiece of a moving stage, without the stage ever transitioning into its next phase. It'd be neat if you could use those for regular battles.
Agreed. It would also be nice to select a portion of the stage to start at while still allowing it to scroll or tour normally.
 

GhostYB

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Nov 27, 2018
Messages
91
#12
You can change the menu music, actually. However, you need to clear Adventure Mode first. (I'm not sure if you need 100% completion or just the true ending; I got both at the same time.)

As for Smash Run, that would be nice, but realistically, it would be a very tall order.

Agreed. It would also be nice to select a portion of the stage to start at while still allowing it to scroll or tour normally.
woah really, maybe if i completed WoL then i wouldve known :p thanks!
 

evildevil97

Smash Apprentice
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Feb 18, 2014
Messages
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evildevil97
#13
Change Yoshi's Island (Melee) into a Mario stage, so more than the one Super Mario World track can play on it. I almost never use that stage anymore because the music selection generally doesn't fit very well.
 

William5000000

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 12, 2015
Messages
203
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North Carolina
#15
At the risk of making myself look like a fool...again, add a toggle or frequency on Star KOs/Screen KOs, where they're either random (33.3% each), they occur every time (75.0% for Star KOs, 25.0% for Screen KOs), or they never occur at all (100.0% Blast KOs). That way, people could enjoy the randomness, enjoy Star KOs/Screen KOs in matches whenever they want, and play in competitive matches without having to put up with the upper blast line's RNG.

Now before anyone knocks on me about adding this feature in a patch update, I'm going to be as clear as possible.

Making Star KOs/Screen KOs count as already KO'd upon crossing the upper blast line could work, but the thing is, only a mod would change that. And apparently, modding is a bad idea in general, with the exception being "Project M" on changing random tripping from "Brawl". I'm pretty sure the developers aren't going to do that.

Also, competitive players dislike Star KOs/Screen KOs because they are annoying for various reasons. Unfair losses, characters like Donkey Kong, Samus, Cloud, et cetera, having charge moves that can be canceled, and opponents getting either Star KO'd or Screen KO'd being unable to prevent them from charging up, and competitive team battles, where a player can get 1v2'd during those animations or the other team heals during those animations. And I'm pretty sure competitive players would prefer if the match didn't drag out with Star KOs/Screen KOs. Jigglypuff's down special was improved by decreasing ending lag and can be canceled afterwards, making it less likely to get punished for landing the move, even if a Blast KO occurs. So it shouldn't be a big deal for Jigglypuff anymore, whether it's on-stage or off-stage.

Just take a look at what happened recently on a last stock situation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/ab34rc/it_really_do_be_like_that_sometimes/

For competitive play, just have Star KOs/Screen KOs toggled off. That's my opinion on it. They wanted the game to be just as fast as "Melee", so I don't see a problem with having no Star KOs/Screen KOs for competitive matches to go by quicker. Plus, no putting up with the upper blast line's RNG, which benefits competitive players.

As far as enjoying Star KOs/Screen KOs in matches, we should be able to do that whenever we want without having to rely on certain items like the Boss Galaga and the Beetle, or certain attacks like Giga Bowser Punch. They're not iconic anymore because we practically can't do that in matches without relying on certain items or certain attacks. And that's very disappointing.

I hope I made myself very clear on adding this feature in a patch update.
 
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MG_3989

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 1, 2019
Messages
321
#16
Change Yoshi's Island (Melee) into a Mario stage, so more than the one Super Mario World track can play on it. I almost never use that stage anymore because the music selection generally doesn't fit very well.
It’s such a good stage too
 

Nagol

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#17
At the risk of making myself look like a fool...again, add a toggle or frequency on Star KOs/Screen KOs, where they're either random (33.3% each), they occur every time (75.0% for Star KOs, 25.0% for Screen KOs), or they never occur at all (100.0% Blast KOs). That way, people could enjoy the randomness, enjoy Star KOs/Screen KOs in matches whenever they want, and play in competitive matches without having to put up with the upper blast line's RNG.

Now before anyone knocks on me about adding this feature in a patch update, I'm going to be as clear as possible.

Making Star KOs/Screen KOs count as already KO'd upon crossing the upper blast line could work, but the thing is, only a mod would change that. And apparently, modding is a bad idea in general, with the exception being "Project M" on changing random tripping from "Brawl". I'm pretty sure the developers aren't going to do that.

Also, competitive players dislike Star KOs/Screen KOs because they are annoying for various reasons. Unfair losses, characters like Donkey Kong, Samus, Cloud, et cetera, having charge moves that can be canceled, and opponents getting either Star KO'd or Screen KO'd being unable to prevent them from charging up, and competitive team battles, where a player can get 1v2'd during those animations or the other team heals during those animations. And I'm pretty sure competitive players would prefer if the match didn't drag out with Star KOs/Screen KOs. Jigglypuff's down special was improved by decreasing ending lag and can be canceled afterwards, making it less likely to get punished for landing the move, even if a Blast KO occurs. So it shouldn't be a big deal for Jigglypuff anymore, whether it's on-stage or off-stage.

Just take a look at what happened recently on a last stock situation:
https://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/ab34rc/it_really_do_be_like_that_sometimes/

For competitive play, just have Star KOs/Screen KOs toggled off. That's my opinion on it. They wanted the game to be just as fast as "Melee", so I don't see a problem with having no Star KOs/Screen KOs for competitive matches to go by quicker. Plus, no putting up with the upper blast line's RNG, which benefits competitive players.

As far as enjoying Star KOs/Screen KOs in matches, we should be able to do that whenever we want without having to rely on certain items like the Boss Galaga and the Beetle, or certain attacks like Giga Bowser Punch. They're not iconic anymore because we practically can't do that in matches without relying on certain items or certain attacks. And that's very disappointing.

I hope I made myself very clear on adding this feature in a patch update.
I like star K.O's from a viewers perspective but I see your points on why they are an issue.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Champion
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#18
When you said online doubled with friends, does that include being able to play co-op locally with someone and also with a friend online, or just doubles battles with one friend and no one else?

Personally I feel like they should just have dedicated friend servers.

Also they should find a way to make connections server run instead of peer-to-peer if possible.
 

dav3yb

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 7, 2014
Messages
423
#19
I'd mainly like a "custom hazards" for a ruleset/stage list.

Allowing you to have some stages with hazards on and off in the same list, and allow you to choose specific stage transformations to play on.

Also at least homerun contest added back. I'd really like break the targets too, but only if they did individual character stages.
 

Lifewaker

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Dec 14, 2018
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#20
I wish the CStick inputs were directly mapped to the action (fsmash, utilt, etc.) instead of a directional input plus a button (A or B), but I don't know if that's something a patch would ever touch.

I also kind of hope the input lag gets reduced a little bit. Even on a fast TV, I get around 6-7 frames of delay on my inputs. Smash 4 gave me half of that, as did the older titles on a CRT.
 

Veigar

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 25, 2015
Messages
18
#22
- Stage builder. One like Brawl's, not Smash 4's.
- Descriptions of Spirits like trophies.
- Something to indicate you have unlocked all music like a milestone or something. Speaking of which, a better way to unlock music aside from buying them.
- Fix Ice Climbers. This unholy abomination of a duo has crashed my game.
 

Arrei

Smash Lord
Joined
Nov 25, 2014
Messages
1,133
#23
Quickplay needs to be changed so that certain rulesets are just never incorrectly matched with each other. Stuff like specific stock count or time limit is minor, but when you get into making people play game modes they just do NOT want to play...

- Items On should never be matched with Items Off
- 1v1 should never be matched with FFA or Teams
- Time Only should never be matched with Stock
- Hazards On should never be matched with the other options

These all need the simple change of simply not putting you in a game instead of throwing you into a completely wrong game. There are generally enough people playing that any ruleset you choose could find a proper match if the game only just waited a little instead of chucking you into something as soon as it could. The sheer irony of players being forced to wait through wrong games or in Battle Arenas because the game itself could not wait is palpable.
 

Nagol

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#26
I wish the CStick inputs were directly mapped to the action (fsmash, utilt, etc.) instead of a directional input plus a button (A or B), but I don't know if that's something a patch would ever touch.

I also kind of hope the input lag gets reduced a little bit. Even on a fast TV, I get around 6-7 frames of delay on my inputs. Smash 4 gave me half of that, as did the older titles on a CRT.
I play on a high refresh rate monitor and don't notice any lag. I have completely given up on tv's because of it
 

Semako

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 8, 2018
Messages
21
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Vienna
#27
- keep the players and their characters after a battle in Smash mode
- increase hand speed
- add a way to quickly switch off/on the hazard toggle,similar to the BF/FD toggle.
- fix the goddamn pro controller desynching problem, so that I can desynch my controller after a tournament battle without having to worry about it reconnecting and disturbing other players - without requiring me to always have my own switch with me...
- allow character change in quickplay for rematches
- make directional airdodges consistent at snapping the ledge and slightly reduce their aerial endlag to reduce the risk of SDing after an accidential airdodge
- revert the buffer system back to the sm4sh one!!
- don't trigger final zooms for spikes close to the ledge, but onto the stage, that can get annoying and disruptive.
- remove the randomness factor of KOs via the upper blast line, eg by removing blast KOs or counting the KO as soon as the character touches the blast line.
- fix range issues of some grabs (ROB can't be dashgrabbed at all by Marthcina for example)
- fix other issues such as moves not properly connecting, and glitches
- rework the bury effect to make scoring KOs after burying the opponent more difficult
- improve the online netcode to reduce overall lag and improve reliability
- add back HRC, stagebuilder and possible other singleplayer modes.
- adjust some spirit battles in their difficulty
- balance changes, but it is still to early to call for specific nerfs/buffs
- detailed Patchnotes
- release Piranha Plant!
 
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PF9

Smash Ace
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Apr 13, 2010
Messages
949
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America
#28
Huge nerfs for the challengers for those who get the game in the future.

Having to unlock almost everyone is a huge pain to begin with but matches right now get really hard near the end. This needs to be remedied.
 

Nagol

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#29
Huge nerfs for the challengers for those who get the game in the future.

Having to unlock almost everyone is a huge pain to begin with but matches right now get really hard near the end. This needs to be remedied.
I think you are going to see people on both sides of the argument. I think it was fun to unlock characters like the old days even if it wasn't very challenging to do it. It would be nice if there was a code that let you unlock all characters none permanently so that if you didn't feel like doing it either for a tournament or other reason you would just enter the code at the start screen.
Not sure what you meant by "matches right now get really hard near the end" - are you trying to unlock them all through world of light?
 

PF9

Smash Ace
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#30
No, I did a mix of VS. and Classic.

The last few were super strong, a number of them needed two attempts to unlock.
 
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#32
Before I begin, I need to make note that I'm not singling out characters. I'm simply using examples so that all characters benefit. Even if I was singling out characters, don't assume I had my *** handed to me on a silver platter. That's irrelevant.

1. Jabs
Anyone who has dealt with characters who can spam jab and take a lot of damage in milliseconds probably hates the multi-jab mechanic. So I propose if a character can multi-jab, it functions like so. If two jabs are required before a multi-jab occurs, the multi-hit performs three extra jabs. If three jabs are required to intiate a multi-hit, make it two extra jabs. Palutena's jab is notoriously known for continuous damage in spite of the fact that it should be completed. I know there's another character with a notorious jab like her's. Oh, right. Villager's.

2. Grabs
All characters should have grabs no greater than their hitbox. A character like Palutena can grab Ness within a certain range, although her arms don't even reach that far. Marth was infamous for his grab range in SSBM. At least with Ness, it would make sense for him to grab without his hands, since he is using psychokinesis. Characters with tether grabs would have better grabs in terms of range, although their end lag would make grabbing all the more risky.

3. Virtual infinites and infinites
It's known that Ice Climbers had their infinite grabs removed. Still, a character like Luigi can go for a grab and perform a combo capable of 0-to-death. Winning should not be that simple, so I think anything like that should be toned down. I known Luigi's grab isn't as good as it was in SSB4, butit's still good. No, setting up that combo isn't difficult to perform. CDK performed it in SSB4 while looking away.

4. Balanced characters
Bowser is a massive character, so you'd expect he'd be slower. He's not. While his size makes him combo food, racking up damage in a game that rewards you for taking damage (rage) only benefits Bowser. He can take the punishment. It seems to me his pros outweigh his cons. He also has Marth's SSBM grab when pivot grabbing. Something's got to give. Balance the characters, Sakurai.
 

Arthur97

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 7, 2016
Messages
1,215
#33
Before I begin, I need to make note that I'm not singling out characters. I'm simply using examples so that all characters benefit. Even if I was singling out characters, don't assume I had my *** handed to me on a silver platter. That's irrelevant.

1. Jabs
Anyone who has dealt with characters who can spam jab and take a lot of damage in milliseconds probably hates the multi-jab mechanic. So I propose if a character can multi-jab, it functions like so. If two jabs are required before a multi-jab occurs, the multi-hit performs three extra jabs. If three jabs are required to intiate a multi-hit, make it two extra jabs. Palutena's jab is notoriously known for continuous damage in spite of the fact that it should be completed. I know there's another character with a notorious jab like her's. Oh, right. Villager's.

2. Grabs
All characters should have grabs no greater than their hitbox. A character like Palutena can grab Ness within a certain range, although her arms don't even reach that far. Marth was infamous for his grab range in SSBM. At least with Ness, it would make sense for him to grab without his hands, since he is using psychokinesis. Characters with tether grabs would have better grabs in terms of range, although their end lag would make grabbing all the more risky.

3. Virtual infinites and infinites
It's known that Ice Climbers had their infinite grabs removed. Still, a character like Luigi can go for a grab and perform a combo capable of 0-to-death. Winning should not be that simple, so I think anything like that should be toned down. I known Luigi's grab isn't as good as it was in SSB4, butit's still good. No, setting up that combo isn't difficult to perform. CDK performed it in SSB4 while looking away.

4. Balanced characters
Bowser is a massive character, so you'd expect he'd be slower. He's not. While his size makes him combo food, racking up damage in a game that rewards you for taking damage (rage) only benefits Bowser. He can take the punishment. It seems to me his pros outweigh his cons. He also has Marth's SSBM grab when pivot grabbing. Something's got to give. Balance the characters, Sakurai.
Bowser seems like a poor example. He's far from overbearing, and rage was nerfed in Ultimate. Besides, they tried slow Bowser. At this point I'm not confident there is any real example of fundamentally unbalanced fighters. If there are (in the good department) it's certainly not Bowser.
 
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Joined
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#34
Arthur97 Arthur97
Bowser is the heaviest and is faster than many middleweight characters. Bowser could be much slower. If the developers tried slowing down Bowser, I haven't noticed a significant change. Again, I'm not singling out any character, just offering examples. By "balanced", I mean balancing traits like weight and speed. More weight, less speed. More range for grabs, more cool down or whatever. It's not as simple to develop as I'd hoped.
 

Arthur97

Smash Lord
Joined
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Messages
1,215
#35
Arthur97 Arthur97
Bowser is the heaviest and is faster than many middleweight characters. Bowser could be much slower. If the developers tried slowing down Bowser, I haven't noticed a significant change. Again, I'm not singling out any character, just offering examples. By "balanced", I mean balancing traits like weight and speed. More weight, less speed. More range for grabs, more cool down or whatever. It's not as simple to develop as I'd hoped.
By slow Bowser, I meant Melee and Brawl where he was generally terrible. Besides, he has speed and weight, but he's still quite vulnerable and has weaknesses as they all seem to have. Balance is one of the things this game seems to have done well.
 

Yuya-Noboru

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2018
Messages
192
#36
You know what would be cool? Of course, in addition to a better balance?

SMASH
* Add a "CPUX" level that would be as the original CPU9 in the release-version, they were good & funny.
* Make the "Ready to fight" message at the character screen smaller, so you can change your characters when you press a button to take the token and not just ****in begin the battle.
* Back in the result screen (after the end of a game), don't reset the characters of each players so they don't have to pick it again...
* Special Battle : Being able to chose different status modifier for each character (You could be normal character against a permanent metal ennemy).
* Controls : Be able to disable the "A button + directional stick at the same time to do a smash attack" option to make easier the use of tilt for the ones like me that always do a damn smash attack while we wanted, in fact, to do a tilt.
* Rules : For the CPU level, we should be able to select a random level between the levels X & Y. For example: generate random level of CPU between 7 & 9. It would also be cool for the tournament smash by the way.
* Mii fighters should have a real render during the loading screen, rather than the default Mii render with a blackface.

ONLINE
* Make an option for player that would make people play the ruleset they want everytime, even if they have to wait a lot more. I prefer waiting 10min rather than play with ****in objects game. Too much assist trophies and pokemon that spawn, they can take your stock too easily also.* Add a "limited random mode" that would make you random between a list of chosen characters (arena mode) so you can play different characters of your choice rather than having bad sometimes. It would be a nice alternative for the ones that like to diversify without having to get the worse characters.
* Arena : Being able to change character easier (not having to be as "selecting" and lose your place in the waiting queue.* Allow character switching between rematches.
* Allow rules to remove few stages from "random stage".

SPIRITS
* Being able to create "premade fight", similar to "Event Match" in previous games, so you could create unique battle. For example: Player VS (1) Metal Mario [ when weak, Metal Luigi appears), in a new game mode.
* Better "custom spirits team" tools.

GAMES & MORE
* Bring back Stage Builder (with the property modifier as in spirit mode, like fire/electric/etc. ground), & Boss Run. Bonus: Also bring back Home Run Contest.
* Mii Customization "testing stage" should be the same as training mode. Also, add an option to edit the chosen Mii characters at the select screen.
* New modes : Juggernaut -> A game mode (for both online & offline) where X players are boss(es) (Galleom if 1 boss, Master&Crazy Hand if 2 bosses for example) and Y players are playable characters that fight them. It would be funny & unique and it could be a nice successor of Boss Run (SSBB). There could also be a offline mode when you're playing Master Hand and, as the Multiman melee mode, you have to kill X ennemies or survive until you die. It would be a nice addon to the actual Extra mode and it would be similar to the Master Hand fight in the adventure mode. Bonus : Bring back few bosses from SSBB.

This is the only things I can think of but there are a lot of other stuff (even details) that I forgot. There's something that I would like, but it doesn't deserves to be in the list. I would like to fight against Fighting Wireframe, Polygons or the Alloy team randomly in the mob smash mode. The return of older versions of Battlefield & Final Destination would be cool too.
 
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Nagol

Smash Cadet
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#37
Before I begin, I need to make note that I'm not singling out characters. I'm simply using examples so that all characters benefit. Even if I was singling out characters, don't assume I had my *** handed to me on a silver platter. That's irrelevant.

1. Jabs
Anyone who has dealt with characters who can spam jab and take a lot of damage in milliseconds probably hates the multi-jab mechanic. So I propose if a character can multi-jab, it functions like so. If two jabs are required before a multi-jab occurs, the multi-hit performs three extra jabs. If three jabs are required to intiate a multi-hit, make it two extra jabs. Palutena's jab is notoriously known for continuous damage in spite of the fact that it should be completed. I know there's another character with a notorious jab like her's. Oh, right. Villager's.

2. Grabs
All characters should have grabs no greater than their hitbox. A character like Palutena can grab Ness within a certain range, although her arms don't even reach that far. Marth was infamous for his grab range in SSBM. At least with Ness, it would make sense for him to grab without his hands, since he is using psychokinesis. Characters with tether grabs would have better grabs in terms of range, although their end lag would make grabbing all the more risky.
I only want to touch on the first 2. I don't mind Multi-jabs (rapid jab) I just wish DI-ing out of it was a lot better. Currently most characters can finish a rapid jab before I even start to S-DI it. Even when you do get your S-DI in on time you usually can't escape before they release it. I do like when fox catches someone camping the edge with a rapid jab and it lasts extra long. I would prefer they went on the route of giving more players options of escaping out of multi jabs.

Grabs kind of suck for certain characters right now...I might regret saying this but I kind of want them to buff grabs. just to address your point I would need to test grab ranges to see if your point is valid or if the reaches are negligible. I'm only thinking some characters duck to give an accurate reach representation of their grab while others stand up straight and barely reach but have similar range. So I would just like to see the data and if it's super oppressive then maybe. Back to my buffing grabs though I find grabs suck at later percents because the throw and even the grab release often doesn't lead to anything. I just want across the board every character to have one throw that has at least one guaranteed follow up hit at percents up to 120 (negotiable).
-This is my reasoning for wanting this. It's late percent and my opponent starts to take a very defensive approach limiting my kill options from smash attacks. I can chip away at them all I want but generally they are pretty safe with this tactic because the kill options I have are pretty much edge guarding,baiting or waiting for my opponent to open up. I'm impatient and since they are sitting in shield it's usually super easy to run up and grab, but since we are at 100% or so none of my throws link to anything and my one kill throw isn't till 180%. So what happens usually? I just keep chipping at them till they are at kill throw range and punish them that way. Maybe they open up and I kill them before that but usually not.

So yes I sort of want them to buff grabs but I know if they do certain characters will learn to turn them into guaranteed kill confirms. Such as with melee where most grabs if tech chased or performed correctly can lead to early confirms.

BONUS: buff falcon throws! how can you not let him down throw to hard knee at not killing percents masterHero SoccerGuy?
 
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#38
By slow Bowser, I meant Melee and Brawl where he was generally terrible. Besides, he has speed and weight, but he's still quite vulnerable and has weaknesses as they all seem to have. Balance is one of the things this game seems to have done well.
You can get away with juggling Bowser or try edge-guarding him off-stage, but his attacks are hard hitting and quick. His speed tops a lot of middleweight characters, his durability allows him to take the punishment and increase rage. By the way, to address the rage mechanic, I heard it wasn't that different from SSB4's. I thought it would start out at 120%, but it still begins as early as its 30s. I don't remember where I read this. Perhaps some other thread on SmashBoards. I suppose this will have to do.

I only want to touch on the first 2. I don't mind Multi-jabs (rapid jab) I just wish DI-ing out of it was a lot better. Currently most characters can finish a rapid jab before I even start to S-DI it. Even when you do get your S-DI in on time you usually can't escape before they release it. I do like when fox catches someone camping the edge with a rapid jab and it lasts extra long. I would prefer they went on the route of giving more players options of escaping out of multi jabs.

Grabs kind of suck for certain characters right now...I might regret saying this but I kind of want them to buff grabs. just to address your point I would need to test grab ranges to see if your point is valid or if the reaches are negligible. I'm only thinking some characters duck to give an accurate reach representation of their grab while others stand up straight and barely reach but have similar range. So I would just like to see the data and if it's super oppressive then maybe. Back to my buffing grabs though I find grabs suck at later percents because the throw and even the grab release often doesn't lead to anything. I just want across the board every character to have one throw that has at least one guaranteed follow up hit at percents up to 120 (negotiable).
-This is my reasoning for wanting this. It's late percent and my opponent starts to take a very defensive approach limiting my kill options from smash attacks. I can chip away at them all I want but generally they are pretty safe with this tactic because the kill options I have are pretty much edge guarding,baiting or waiting for my opponent to open up. I'm impatient and since they are sitting in shield it's usually super easy to run up and grab, but since we are at 100% or so none of my throws link to anything and my one kill throw isn't till 180%. So what happens usually? I just keep chipping at them till they are at kill throw range and punish them that way. Maybe they open up and I kill them before that but usually not.

So yes I sort of want them to buff grabs but I know if they do certain characters will learn to turn them into guaranteed kill confirms. Such as with melee where most grabs if tech chased or performed correctly can lead to early confirms.

BONUS: buff falcon throws! how can you not let him down throw to hard knee at not killing percents masterHero SoccerGuy?
SDI'ing would definitely help. My brother mains Ness and he's noticed it's been more difficult to grab his opponents in SSBU than in SSB4. There is a video made by VoiD about Pichu. Check out the grab range Pichu has compared to Mario. Marth, is that you?
 
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Arthur97

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#39
You can get away with juggling Bowser or try edge-guarding him off-stage, but his attacks are hard hitting and quick. His speed tops a lot of middleweight characters, his durability allows him to take the punishment and increase rage. By the way, to address the rage mechanic, I heard it wasn't that different from SSB4's. I thought it would start out at 120%, but it still begins as early as its 30s. I don't remember where I read this. Perhaps some other thread on SmashBoards. I suppose this will have to do.



SDI'ing would definitely help. My brother mains Ness and he's noticed it's been more difficult to grab his opponents in SSBU than in SSB4. There is a video made by VoiD about Pichu. Check out the grab range Pichu has compared to Mario. Marth, is that you?
Bowser also leaves himself very open when he attacks.

And rage's effect is what I think was toned down, not when it starts. In any case, you seem to think rage is more powerful than it is. It's not making him top tier any time soon.
 
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#40
Bowser also leaves himself very open when he attacks.

And rage's effect is what I think was toned down, not when it starts. In any case, you seem to think rage is more powerful than it is. It's not making him top tier any time soon.
Who doesn't?

I don't think rage is more powerful than it is, only that it benefits a hard hitter. I didn't say anything about Bowser being top tier.
 
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