Patch 4.0.0 Pit Buffs

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
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254
#1
Pit Neutral Attack 1: Increased attack speed.
Pit Up Tilt Attack: Reduced vulnerability.
Pit Down Smash Attack: Extended launch distance when hit with the first attack.
Pit Back Air Attack: Reduced vulnerability when landing after using the move.
Pit Down Air Attack: Extended launch distance when hitting an opponent in the air with a meteor effect.

I don’t have much of the exact numbers, but I believe jab is frame 4 now instead of frame 5. Up Tilt combos more consistently into Nair, which is great, just wish Uair was better but this is an important first step. The front hit of Down Smash kills earlier, which is nice. Bair just got crazy good on shield I think. Down air is a small buff but still, the move was so weak before, and maybe, just maybe this means Dair will be safe on hit on grounded opponent’s at low %.

So, what do I think? So far, the Bair upgrade seems most important, followed by Down Smash, and after that Up Tilt, then Jab and finally Dair. Overall, I’m quite pleased that Pit was actually noticed and got attention, I’m relieved to have avoided the worst case scenario of no buffs. But, Side Special remains untouched, which is unfortunate, and if Uair got extended launch distance Pit’s kit might be complete. The Down Special too could use a little less end-lag. So, today is an overall win for Pit, and I truly hope this isn’t the last of his buffs, because what I mentioned above can truly be a problem at times. And thankfully Ivysaur was nerfed, Ivy mains complain just as Pichu mains did (which
is really annoying for people to think their character deserves to have unbalanced, way overturned moves that give them an edge), but the whole cast should appreciate a more legitimate Dair, and Down Throw Fair was some of the nastiest, most disgusting of consistent kill confirms I’ve seen since Up Tilt Waft. Forgot to mention, I’m not sure if they’ll buff Silver Bow which sounds really bad for DP’s viability in the future, but who knows?


What do you guys think of the Pit buffs, and do you have any more info about them?
 
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Joined
Feb 7, 2019
Messages
64
#2
Hoping dair buff means that our early offstage reads actually net us kills that'd be hype, and that faster jab helps. Dsmash knockback is great for real. I only use bair situationally, I don't fish for it so I don't know how much this will help me. Uptilt improvement is neat, I have a hard time hitting with it but if it's less vulnerable, maybe I can be more brazen.

An initial air speed buff would still be nice but I'll take this.
 

Phyras

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 22, 2019
Messages
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South of France
#3
For clarity purpose, correct me if I'm wrong:
Pit Neutral Attack 1: Increased attack speed. => jab first hit got faster activation, what about first avaibable frame after that ?
Pit Up Tilt Attack: Reduced vulnerability. => Less ending lag ?
Pit Down Smash Attack: Extended launch distance when hit with the first attack. => More knock back on the front hit.
Pit Back Air Attack: Reduced vulnerability when landing after using the move. => Faster auto-cancel ?
Pit Down Air Attack: Extended launch distance when hitting an opponent in the air with a meteor effect. => Stronger Spike only(?) on airborn character.

I tried the spike, the grounded combo short hop buffered sweetspoted Dair, double jump bair still start from 99% on middleweight medium sized characters. So no changes on grounded characters.
In the trainning stage, down tilt Dair on a ~80% luigi still doesn't spike into the blastzone.
Dair's spike is still a joke.

Down smash front hit does "kill earlier" but it's still a straight diagonal with sweet and sour spot that DI can leverage, it doesn't seems to be a consistent kill option.
 

Kiligar

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 5, 2019
Messages
254
#4
Lucas Side Special buff looks like it may be very obnoxious. That was their strategy before patch, and it getting buffed might be a pain. Snake untouched, ok. ZSS Down Special untouched, ok. We’ll have to eke everything we can out of these buffs.
 

Courageous Baka

Smash Apprentice
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#5
According to SmashWiki,
● Jab 1 has one less frame of startup (frame 5 down to frame 4).
● Up tilt has 2 frames less ending (FAF reduced from 35 to 33).
● Bair has 3 frames less endlag (11 frames down to 8 frames).
● Dsmash's front hit's sweetspot's knockback values have been changed from 35 base/93 scaling to 40 base/98 scaling.
● Dair's base knockback against airborne opponents has been increased from 0 to 10.
 
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Courageous Baka

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#6
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...CZZIy2X5TpkeU0YbwqB7PHODQnA/edit?usp=drivesdk

The link will take you to a chart (does not belong to me) detailing the on-shield frame advantage of Pit's ground and aerial moves. Now when we factor in the changes to Bair's landing lag the data for landing Bairs should become this:
● SH+LAND BAIR (sweet) - (-7 → -4)
● SH+LAND BAIR (sour) - (-8 → -5)
● FH+LAND BAIR (sweet) - (-6 → -3)
● FH+LAND BAIR (sour) - (-7 → -4)
 
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Joined
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Messages
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#7
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...CZZIy2X5TpkeU0YbwqB7PHODQnA/edit?usp=drivesdk

The link will take you to a chart (does not belong to me) detailing the on-shield frame advantage of Pit's ground and aerial moves. Now when we factor in the changes to Bair's landing lag the data for landing Bairs should become this:
● SH+LAND BAIR (sweet) - (-7 → -4)
● SH+LAND BAIR (sour) - (-8 → -5)
● FH+LAND BAIR (sweet) - (-6 → -3)
● FH+LAND BAIR (sour) - (-7 → -4)

How many frames does it take to turnaround? Should we be landing on people's shields with Bair and then hitting with the new jab?
 

Courageous Baka

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#8
How many frames does it take to turnaround? Should we be landing on people's shields with Bair and then hitting with the new jab?
After one quick training session and some research, it only takes 1 frame to turn around. About turning around and then using faster jab, that probably comes down to the opponent's frame data and your spacing.
 
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Firox

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,405
#9
So I love the faster the up tilt, but I was wondering if anyone has found a new use for it. The hitbox is still kinda small so I rarely find myself using it over upsmash or SH nair. Can it combo into anything now?
 

NuNero1

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#10
So I love the faster the up tilt, but I was wondering if anyone has found a new use for it. The hitbox is still kinda small so I rarely find myself using it over upsmash or SH nair. Can it combo into anything now?
Yes, after uptilt lands you can immediately combo into Nair, which leads to some good juggles. I've done it plenty of times, even before the update.
 
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#12
Up tilt is best use either to punish rolls from the ledge at those percents where it is the only thing that will combo or when you are already using it mid combo as an extension for your combo. to date the best use I've ever seen for it is as the follow up after a job lock at percent where cannot kill yet because whatever you did to set up that job lock probably did a good amount of damage so the best follow up you can get is up till into neutral air or u air. The last good thing I have seen it used for recently is for punishing people 2 air dodgeland in front of you
 

Vistra31

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#13
Pit Down Air Attack: Extended launch distance when hitting an opponent in the air with a meteor effect.
I don’t have much of the exact numbers, but I believe jab is frame 4 now instead of frame 5. Up Tilt combos more consistently into Nair, which is great, just wish Uair was better but this is an important first step. The front hit of Down Smash kills earlier, which is nice. Bair just got crazy good on shield I think. Down air is a small buff but still, the move was so weak before, and maybe, just maybe this means Dair will be safe on hit on grounded opponent’s at low %.

What do you guys think of the Pit buffs, and do you have any more info about them?
Lmao how do you read patch notes like that.

Anyways Bair is better and that's all I really care about. Sure utilt is better but no true combos out of that. Dsmash is like a stronger dtilt but riskier. None of this matters too much because fair gets rid of projectiles better
 
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#14
Lmao how do you read patch notes like that.

Anyways Bair is better and that's all I really care about. Sure utilt is better but no true combos out of that. Dsmash is like a stronger dtilt but riskier. None of this matters too much because fair gets rid of projectiles better
up tilt definitely true combos as long as you do a buffered double jump either with neutral air or u air. And it works for a long time
 

Kiligar

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#15
Lmao how do you read patch notes like that.

Anyways Bair is better and that's all I really care about. Sure utilt is better but no true combos out of that. Dsmash is like a stronger dtilt but riskier. None of this matters too much because fair gets rid of projectiles better
I yearn for Dair to be safe on hit at low percent. So if Dair is even mentioned it gets my hopes up.
 

Vistra31

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#16
I yearn for Dair to be safe on hit at low percent. So if Dair is even mentioned it gets my hopes up.
So is dair safe on hit if you space it right already (like the sourspot/left & right sides of the move on the ends)? I think that depends on if a character has a good Up B OoS or something like that.
 
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