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Patch 1.1.4 Changes

ZeroJanitor

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So far, the only thing I noticed is a visual change to down air. Anyone else find anything?
 

colinies

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Very possible its placebo, but I'll be damned if Bair doesn't feel like it comes out faster
 

Foster J.

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Well it's very possible Fox has some changes, but I don't think it's laser, Dair MIGHT have some more visual to it, but alas we need them data miners to do their job in peace
 

G-Sword

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Well it's very possible Fox has some changes, but I don't think it's laser, Dair MIGHT have some more visual to it, but alas we need them data miners to do their job in peace
His sideways aerial movement has gotten better that's 100% for sure.. Did they fix the tail sweep hitbox? I forgot to check last night
 
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Sheikachu

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His sideways aerial movement has gotten better that's 100% for sure
How do we know? Was it datamined? I haven't had a chance to play since the update so I don't have a feel for it.
 
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G-Sword

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How do we know? Was it datamined? I haven't had a chance to play since the update so I don't have a feel for it.
1. I picked up fox after the patch for 5 seconds in training mode and could tell right away that his sideways aerial movement was faster. I main fox and play him all the time. Won a few tourneys with him so I noticed the difference. A friend that mains him noticed it as well.
2. In the official patch notes its still being analyzed but they have him down as maybe for his movements to have been changed.
 

Rikke

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Am I the only one that feels like Up-throw ends faster? Need other people to confirm, it can't combo into up-air or anything, but I swear it ends faster.
 

Foster J.

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The placebos are real.
There was a change to Fox in the files, and if it's just +1 unit of weight then I'll bloody take it.
 
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Top Boss

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I couldn't find anything.
 

Foster J.

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Mean while Falco's Usmash is now Frame 7 being faster than Fox's Usmash and kills around the same percentages, I am so confused
 
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Jeremi Tschiember

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Mean while Falco's Usmash is now Frame 7 being faster than Fox's Usmash and kills around the same percentages, I am so confused
Fox Usmash can slide, combined with a sprint, which technically is faster and easier to land, Falco Usmash cant sprint/slide.

It can slide, but it is very technincal and harder to do than Fox. I main Falco and I still cant do a slide-Usmash.
 
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Foster J.

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It's called a jump cancelled Usmash or a Runnish Usmash, which is dependant on the characters dash animation / length.
Falco can do a decent lil slide with JC, but yes Fox has a longer one, but that's besides the point when the roles of Falco has always been better at Horizontal KO's while Fox was vertical all the way back in Melee.

Sakurai is breaking down walls and not giving anything to the other character
 

Ffamran

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Mean while Falco's Usmash is now Frame 7 being faster than Fox's Usmash and kills around the same percentages, I am so confused
Quoting these over since I'm too lazy to retype everything. Someone also mentioned the Fox boards were discussing this...
There's also the fact Fox can setup Up Smash at kill percents from late Nair, fast fall, no last hit Fair, Dair, jab 1 to jab 2, late dash attack?, and I think Ftilt. For Falco, he can setup Up Smash from Utilt at low percents, D-throw on select characters and depending on DI at low percents, and potentially - this needs to be labbed - fast fall, no last hit Nair at kill percents. So, in terms of raw kill power, Falco's close, but in terms of "reliability" and ability to setup his, he's far away.
Hence, anti-air. Falco's Up Smash seems more like a defensive option to Fox's more offensive option. Fox can still anti-air with his Up Smash, but he needs to time it a bit more carefully since he doesn't have his low recovery with Up Smash like in Melee and Brawl.

Huh, guess that's one thing Yoshi one-ups on Fox... Seriously, Yoshi's Up Smash covers like 2/3's of Battlefield's platforms. It's freaking annoying since he has low recovery on his Up Smash...

Falco's starts just 1 frame faster. Not that big of a deal. It's also not black and white since at frame 7 and frame 8 for Fox, their hitboxes are ground-level. Because the first hit was changed to not hit on Battlefield's lower platforms, it's technically a frame ~14 hit since that's maybe when the second hit reaches the top. Granted, since people think it'll just whiff when the first hit just passes by, they might drop their shield. At the same time, Utilt is probably safer since both hits can connect.
Alsp, keep in mind that with the last hit, Falco kills 3DS Mario at ~130% on FD and omegas. He needs to fully connect it get anywhere close to Fox's Up Smash kill percent.

It's called a jump cancelled Usmash or a Runnish Usmash, which is dependant on the characters dash animation / length.
Falco can do a decent lil slide with JC, but yes Fox has a longer one, but that's besides the point when the roles of Falco has always been better at Horizontal KO's while Fox was vertical all the way back in Melee.
I felt like Falco was also vertically inclined, but more downwards for kills and mostly for comboing versus Fox's kills and combos being vertically up. In Brawl and PM, I'd argue that Wolf was the better horizontal killer. In Smash 4, Falco became all-around in terms of comboing and killing along with edgeguarding while Fox stuck with his design. Knowing Falco's history, Smash 5 might end up making him a swordsman for ***** and giggles. Can never be the same, eh, Falco?

Sakurai is breaking down walls and not giving anything to the other character
This is something we need since all the characters were copied and pasted from Brawl with nerfs and removal of oppressive tools like Brawl Falco Blaster. Marth is the biggest example of this and he's slowly making his way to gaining a new identity while moving away from "worse version" of / inferior Smash 4 Roy, obsolete to Cloud, and not Melee and Brawl Marth / not Corrin.

Falco is too, but in a weird way since he seems to be taking up random stuff from everyone; he took Melee Fox's U-throw, Zelda's Nair, ZSS's Uair, Pikachu's Fair, Captain Falcon's Up Smash? - can't think of another powerful 2-hit Up Smash -, and the +2 growth on Down Smash seems like he's about to steal Wolf's Down Smash. None of those characters were compensated from him stealing their moves; Zelda barely got some reduced landing lag on her Nair, but it's still 19 frames. This makes him more well-rounded and functional, but at the cost of him superseding everyone's moves while being not a really good character since none of those moves fix the fact his neutral sucks and his disadvantage sucks. In some cases, those moves are better off on other characters who can actually make use of them since either Falco's too slow-moving or lacks the setups to use them in the first place. For all we know, he might even steal Ganondorf's Ftilt if there's another patch... May the developers have mercy on everyone's soul if that happens.

Also, the same thing can be said for Fox; Fox had a reduction in total frames for all his Blasters meaning lower recovery. He wasn't alone, Greninja -sort of - and Robin joined as well. Falco didn't to this day and ends up with having Burst Blaster completely outclassed by Fox's Blaster and despite shorter range and only firing once, Fox's Impact Blaster is safer than Falco's Blaster. Falco's Blaster also pales in comparison to Bayonetta's Bullet Climax, Cloud's Blade Beam, and Ryu's Hadouken all of which have the similar recovery, but larger hitboxes and/or much more rewarding hits. Cloud's Dair is essentially a Melee and Brawl Falco Dair, but balanced in hit speed. It's fast, but most Dairs are slow and situational compared to Cloud, Fox, Luigi, Mario, Ryu, and Villager's. Smash 4 Falco's Dair still remains as another generic Dair in a sea of generic Dairs. Captain Falcon basically having a weaker Ganondorf Nair and vice versa instead of the weird, but unique, pre-1.1.3.? Ganondorf Nair that had a strong hit that links into the second weak hit can also be said for them as well. They just have weaker of stronger versions of each other's Nair instead of what once was different.
 
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Rikke

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So what's changed about fox???????
 

Foster J.

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Fammy I'm not even going to attempt to start discussion about Sakurai's weird decisions or his breaking down barriers decisions, but that was an interesting read at 4am in the morning alright.

Nothing has really been discovered as of now.
 

luke_atyeo

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I think the datamining suggested that there was some sort of change to fox, but it could be anything including something non gameplay related
G-sword reckons fox has got better horizontal air speed (Which would actually be a huge buff for us), so we should try testing that (if you have the old and new versions side by side, you can probably just test how far you can get with a full hop jump or something)
 

Foster J.

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Having played around, his vertical movement seems very much the same, there really isn't a change in his SH AC Uairs distance to my own observations.
Cause, then Dthrow to Bair would have been a true follow up if so.

I honestly have no idea what would be changed.
 

G-Sword

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I think the datamining suggested that there was some sort of change to fox, but it could be anything including something non gameplay related
G-sword reckons fox has got better horizontal air speed (Which would actually be a huge buff for us), so we should try testing that (if you have the old and new versions side by side, you can probably just test how far you can get with a full hop jump or something)
Just how fox moves feels slightly different. Of course I could be wrong. But as soon as I picked him up after the patch he just felt like he moved slightly different. If I'm wrong no big deal
 

Ffamran

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Fammy I'm not even going to attempt to start discussion about Sakurai's weird decisions or his breaking down barriers decisions, but that was an interesting read at 4am in the morning alright.

Nothing has really been discovered as of now.
I just remembered something... Fox's Up Smash staled will be stronger than Falco's since the kill hit on Falco's only does 12% while Fox's starts at 16% or 14% if you don't sweet-spot it. Considering Falco's more likely to use it for comboing, anti-airing, and ledge coverage, it's probably going to get staled fast compared to Fox who would rather keep it when he can setup an Up Smash.

The other thing, on Fox's 1.1.4 changes, considering Zelda got a change to her Final Smash animation or something, it might be possible Fox got a change to something really trivial like maybe the particle effects on his Landmaster's shells look prettier or that one patch of fur on him is a little messier to make him look more grizzled. Nobody knows at this point and if none of his moves were touched, if none of his Customs were, and his landing and total frames are the same, it's likely he got something changed concerning his Final Smash, entrance animation - ZSS had this in a previous patch -, or something trivial for competitive players.
 
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