Parry vs spacies

[XxGUNZxX]

After parrying aerials from fox/falco, double jumping into an uair/nair does not seem to work as shine can come out faster.

It seems the best option is just to jump an nair without the double jump. This option isn't as strong though as it takes longer to land and follow ups are much harder.

Do you guys have this problem as well? Can u actually done jump nair/uair after parrying without getting shined if you are fast enough? Or is nair without double jumping the best option?

 

[ihasabuket]

How exactly does parrying work? Do you have to jump out of it or can you do grounded moves?

Edit: just looked it up i know how it works now

 

[tauKhan]

read the op https://smashboards.com/threads/some-yoshi-information.351635/

Can u actually done jump nair/uair after parrying without getting shined if you are fast enough? Or is nair without double jumping the best option?

This depends on a couple of factors. Generally your advantage after parrying is (hitlag - 1 ) + landing lag - extra frames you spend in the pre-shield before jumping. Then in many cases the opposing spacie won't land immediately after the aerial gets parried either.

You can look up hitlags of moves at ikneedata.com/calculator .

Optimally DJC nair comes out in 10 frames, DJC uair in 12, sh nair in 8 frames. I think djc uair is too slow to beat shine vs low landing lag moves that hit you low. DJC nair should work most of the time if your timings are crisp.

 

[ihasabuket]

read the op https://smashboards.com/threads/some-yoshi-information.351635/



This depends on a couple of factors. Generally your advantage after parrying is (hitlag - 1 ) + landing lag - extra frames you spend in the pre-shield before jumping. Then in many cases the opposing spacie won't land immediately after the aerial gets parried either.

You can look up hitlags of moves at ikneedata.com/calculator .

Optimally DJC nair comes out in 10 frames, DJC uair in 12, sh nair in 8 frames. I think djc uair is too slow to beat shine vs low landing lag moves that hit you low. DJC nair should work most of the time if your timings are crisp.

Does yoshi not incur hitlag when parrying?

 

[C-SAF]

Parry --> wd back is probably your best option. If they dash fwd u could knock them over with dtilt (knocks down at 0) or just escape the situation. It sucks b/c parrying is hard, but u cant always counter attack out of it.

 

[tauKhan]

Parry --> wd back is probably your best option. If they dash fwd u could knock them over with dtilt (knocks down at 0) or just escape the situation. It sucks b/c parrying is hard, but u cant always counter attack out of it.

Parry -> sh instant nair will work against basically anything that's not quick multihit. Even djc nair is doable. The nair can be ASDI down canceled if you parried low aerial and the victim is below knockdown % (23% fox for instance) though.

 

[C-SAF]

Parry -> sh instant nair will work against basically anything that's not quick multihit. Even djc nair is doable. The nair can be ASDI down canceled if you parried low aerial and the victim is below knockdown % (23% fox for instance) though.

The asdi is what im accounting for, I play a Yoshi whos very proficient at parrying and for a while it was basically a free combo b/c he would parry into an ccable aerial. It was a free shine everytime. U could fade back but then u basically just land a nair and are stuck doing this laggy move as u fade back into the corner. DJ nair --> into cc'd shine is also the worst case scenario vs falco so its not advisable to try it at low percents.

 

[tauKhan]

Yeah, gotta be aware of the knockdown percentages.

 

[XxGUNZxX]

Parry --> wd back is probably your best option. If they dash fwd u could knock them over with dtilt (knocks down at 0) or just escape the situation. It sucks b/c parrying is hard, but u cant always counter attack out of it.

Hmm, I never tried parry into wavedash. I might test that out. Probably will be a wavedash forward though in most cases since the momentum of the spacey will put them inside you and a wavedash back will put you in front of them vulnerably.

 

[C-SAF]

Hmm, I never tried parry into wavedash. I might test that out. Probably will be a wavedash forward though in most cases since the momentum of the spacey will put them inside you and a wavedash back will put you in front of them vulnerably.

If your cornered the wd back is an excellent way to get back to the ledge. It makes Yoshi a lot better at fighting out of the corner.

 

[Army805]

read the op https://smashboards.com/threads/some-yoshi-information.351635/



This depends on a couple of factors. Generally your advantage after parrying is (hitlag - 1 ) + landing lag - extra frames you spend in the pre-shield before jumping. Then in many cases the opposing spacie won't land immediately after the aerial gets parried either.

You can look up hitlags of moves at ikneedata.com/calculator .

Optimally DJC nair comes out in 10 frames, DJC uair in 12, sh nair in 8 frames. I think djc uair is too slow to beat shine vs low landing lag moves that hit you low. DJC nair should work most of the time if your timings are crisp.

I'm having trouble understanding why the you subtract 1 frame of hitlag, why is this? Probably not seeing something obvious.

 

[tauKhan]

I'm having trouble understanding why the you subtract 1 frame of hitlag, why is this? Probably not seeing something obvious.

Just taking into account that you can't do other actions on the same frame the hitbox connects, since that would make you vulnerable. (The hit frame is included in the hitlag value that the commonly presented formulas give.) In other words, parrying a move implies you didn't do anything else on the 1st hitlag frame. In reality there's often 1-2 frames more before you start your jump/shielddrop.

 

[Klemes]

What about parry>dtilt at low % ? does it knock-down no matter what ? I just checked it hits frame 8 which gives you some margin compared to DJC anything.
Is it too hard to follow up on a dtilt knockdown if they tech away ? But it's pretty hard for them to tech after a parry since they're not used to get counter-attacked at that timing at all.

 

[tauKhan]

You don't have time to parry -> DJ land dtilt vs aerial -> shine.

 

[Klemes]

You don't have time to parry -> DJ land dtilt vs aerial -> shine.

I guess I didn't get how parry included having to jump in the first place =P
Also I saw you on Armada's strim yesterday

https://youtu.be/KTS7rIBpr6c?t=7m14s This looks like a pretty clean parry>DJC nair to me ! But yeah it was a bair so the window is bigger than nair>shine.