Parry Questions

[Kankato]

As noobs to competitive smash, my friends and I have some balance questions about Yoshi's parry mechanic.

1. Is the duration 4 frames like in melee?

2. Is it true you can do ANYTHING out of Parry?

3. Do you actually need to parry an attack to act out of it? (i.e. If you don't Parry anything, do you simply enter shield or can you do anything if you act quick enough)

4. Assuming the above are true, is there some crazy frame-perfect trick allowing Yoshi to Parry for four frames (not entering shield), move for 1 frame, parry for four frames, move for 1, etc. and remain invincible forever?

 

[Sashimi]

1. I'm not sure, but it's likely the same window as Melee. In Melee, you could only jump out within the first two frames, however.

2. Yes and no. Technically, you can only jump (or Jump-Cancelled UpSmash) or grab. However, if you double jump during Yoshi's Jumpsquat animation (6 frames in melee), you can do a Double-Jump Land, allowing you to cancel the initial jump. After this, you can follow up with any ground based move.

3. You can act out of a parry even if you don't get hit by anything.

 

[Kankato]

Thanks for the info!

So Parrying is very similar to shielding in use, only you don't suffer any shieldstun? And you can Parry grabs, unlike shields?

 

[Sashimi]

Yes Parrying is similar to powershielding, only the attack hits Yoshi's body instead of his powershield. It was useful in Melee as the only way he could jump out of shield (though technically it wasn't really jumping out of shield, because you were jumping before the shield even came out).

 

[Juker]

I find parrying confusing. I'm used to playing Fox. Would someone mind explaining it a bit more in depth for me? Do you just shield as if you were powershielding, then djc into something?

 

[Sashimi]

Parrying (based on Melee):

During the startup animation of Yoshi's shield, Yoshi has invincibility frames in addition to a powershield. However, since Yoshi's body (large head) tends to get in the way of his powershield, it's not very useful, and instead, the invincibility of Yoshi's regular hurtboxes are used to block attacks instead.

When you hit Yoshi himself instead of his powershield during these frames, you get what's called a parry; Yoshi can cancel this with any Out of Shield option, and if you cancel it properly, you will not see Yoshi's shield at all. The attack will hit Yoshi, with the little blue circle that appears when you hit someone's shield, only Yoshi will have no damage, knockback or shieldstun, and Yoshi will either jump or grab (whichever you chose) before his shield appears. The timing is very difficult, but is easier if you crouch before parrying.

 

[Juker]

Huh.. So the attack has to hit Yoshi's fat head, and not the shield, or can you time it so that if the attack were to hit the shield, it will hit his invulnerability frames regardless of placement? Also, do you know if the timing is on the frames before, after, or during a powershield? Thanks for the info!

 

[Ripple]

1. I'm not sure, but it's likely the same window as Melee. In Melee, you could only jump out within the first two frames, however.

incorrect, you could jump out on 2,3,4,5, and 6

 

[Kankato]

Do the active frames on a move effect when you must jump out of parry?
(i.e. can I parry Falco's dair and still get hit for jump canceling into it?)
Can I parry a multi-hit weak move like Fox's dair without the same problem above?

 

[Sashimi]

incorrect, you could jump out on 2,3,4,5, and 6

Thanks for the info. I'll correct my post.

Do the active frames on a move effect when you must jump out of parry?
(i.e. can I parry Falco's dair and still get hit for jump canceling into it?)
Can I parry a multi-hit weak move like Fox's dair without the same problem above?

I've never been sure about the multi-hit moves, but if you parry a single hitbox, and it's still out after your invincibility frames are done, you won't get hit by it.

 

[Kankato]

Thanks for the info. I'll correct my post.



I've never been sure about the multi-hit moves, but if you parry a single hitbox, and it's still out after your invincibility frames are done, you won't get hit by it.

Thanks for the info~

 

[V3ctorMan]

Finally played P.M. (for those of you that don't know)... many things are awesome... sadly the Parrying is STILL incorrect... it's the only MAJOR.. issue I have atm..(that I haven't been told can't be fixed or isn't being worked on right now) I.e (Yoshi's light shield physics)..I've told player "Calabrel" what's wrong with Parrying, and a "minor" but doesn't need to be fixed thing with Yoshi's ECE's.... Anyway, Where do I post my stuff/vids so people can learn and stuff..?

the other is a "minor" problem with Yoshi's egglay, but otherwise, pretty good job you guys... <3

but yeah I wanna post my videos so people can see, Yoshi's pretty nice now.. no lie.. (though my main focus will always be melee) despite Yoshi being much better in this game)

 

[Ripple]

the problem I have is the SFX. When I hit someone with yoshi, I'd prefer if I didn't have to hear a squishing sound

 

[Gavin D.]

Parrying (based on Melee):

During the startup animation of Yoshi's shield, Yoshi has invincibility frames in addition to a powershield. However, since Yoshi's body (large head) tends to get in the way of his powershield, it's not very useful, and instead, the invincibility of Yoshi's regular hurtboxes are used to block attacks instead.

When you hit Yoshi himself instead of his powershield during these frames, you get what's called a parry; Yoshi can cancel this with any Out of Shield option, and if you cancel it properly, you will not see Yoshi's shield at all. The attack will hit Yoshi, with the little blue circle that appears when you hit someone's shield, only Yoshi will have no damage, knockback or shieldstun, and Yoshi will either jump or grab (whichever you chose) before his shield appears. The timing is very difficult, but is easier if you crouch before parrying.

Why does crouching make it easier? I see all the pros crouch when they party but i dont understand the advantage.

 

[Sashimi]

Why does crouching make it easier? I see all the pros crouch when they party but i dont understand the advantage.

The beginning of the parry animation has Yoshi standing, regardless of what he was doing beforehand. Every character will do this during their pre-shielding animation (which is the reason some people crouch to reflect projectiles). If you crouch before shielding, you lower your hurtbox right up until the frame that you shield, at which point Yoshi will move suddenly (no transition) to standing the next frame. This allows you to let attacks get closer before you parry them, effectively increasing the chance you have of timing it right.

 

[Gavin D.]

The beginning of the parry animation has Yoshi standing, regardless of what he was doing beforehand. Every character will do this during their pre-shielding animation (which is the reason some people crouch to reflect projectiles). If you crouch before shielding, you lower your hurtbox right up until the frame that you shield, at which point Yoshi will move suddenly (no transition) to standing the next frame. This allows you to let attacks get closer before you parry them, effectively increasing the chance you have of timing it right.

Thanks so much that's very helpful. still need to get the timing down, but I got the mechanics.

 

[#HBC | Joker]

Yea, basically when it comes to spacing stuff like powershields and parries, you want wutever they're doing to be inside your shield at the time the shield appears, but not touching your character. So you crouch, which makes it easier to space, because you have all that space above you to work with.

 

[Eternal Yoshi]

http://smashboards.com/threads/new-yoshi-technology.351523/#post-16551654

 

[Deviljho]

What's an easy way to get parrying down?

 

[TomBoComBo]

What's an easy way to get parrying down?

There isn't an easy way, you simply have to work on your read game and know when you're vulnerable (then the opponent approaches and you parry)

 

[Deviljho]

There isn't an easy way, you simply have to work on your read game and know when you're vulnerable (then the opponent approaches and you parry)

I meant like the timing down for parry. like is it a quick press of the shield button?

 

[TomBoComBo]

I meant like the timing down for parry. like is it a quick press of the shield button?

more or less. It's the first 6 frames of the shield, so you can keep the shield out if you want to. the timing is only to parry the attack at the right time, nothing after that

 

[Beets]

So reading through this thread I have yet to see a mention of whether or not parrying is actually useful anymore given that PM Yoshi can jump out of his shield at any time. If parrying in the previous games wete utilized so that Yoshi could act after powershielding, what use does it hold in this game, if any?

For some backround, I playe Yoshi exclusively when I was a wee child back on the N64, and never learned about parrying or DJC until rather recentyly. I always wondered why pressing upair after i single jumped made me fall suddenly!

 

[TomBoComBo]

right now, Parry is just for ignoring grabs. for the first 6 frames you ignore grabs

 

[Beets]

right now, Parry is just for ignoring grabs. for the first 6 frames you ignore grabs

I am A-O.K. with that being the only application.

 

[Nuttre]

I keep trying to parry-hop in the first 6 frames, but each time I do it, no jump comes out. Is it only an option on hit?

 

[TomBoComBo]

There is no realy parryhop in PM, since Yoshi can jump out of shield anyways. Parry only will actually eat the first frame of a move and then will be poked by the rest. the only use for parry right now is for grabs

 

[Nuttre]

There is no realy parryhop in PM, since Yoshi can jump out of shield anyways. Parry only will actually eat the first frame of a move and then will be poked by the rest. the only use for parry right now is for grabs

I was referring to jumping out of shield startup, is it possible at all? (And thanks for the answer)

 

[TomBoComBo]

it is, because he can jump out of shield anyways, but I'm telling you that the purpose of doing it isn't in PM right now so it's not a thing to be concerned about