Palutena Matchup Thread

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#1
I haven't seen a general matchup thread for Palutena yet so I thought I'd make one. Feel free to post your opinions about her best/worst matchups, specific characters vs Palutena, and general strategies to use with her.

Hopefully we can all support each other so we become better Palu Players!
 

edde

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#2
I believe most of the matchups are in her favour except maybe: Wario, Peaches, Pichu, Lucina which can be skill matchups

As for pichu, she has the advantage trading, camping and juggling... Pichu's combo game and edgeguard is too good though

As for Lucina, i believe she has an advantage on the neutral due to her fast disjointed aerials, her good recovery makes it an even matchup, while palutena can have similar struggles vs ike/chrom, she can simply counter their recoveries for easy kills

I dont use and havent fought the peach matchup, but i believe they have way better combo game and kill power. I could be wrong though, its just speculation

Wario maybe has an edge over her due to the obnoxious air game he has and the waft which is one of the strongest win conditions in the game... Its comparable to mac's ko punch, which is probably a stock advantage... this matchup becomes extremely hard if behind and manageable if winning
 
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leafgreen386

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#3
Fast characters give her the most trouble, especially short ones. Big characters are basically a free win.

Palu's biggest weakness is her frame data; when you have an 8f jab and no good OOS options, you don't win when someone gets on top of you. Nair OOS whiffs against most of the cast, fair OOS is good range but whiffs shorties (and is slower than a shieldgrab), while usmash OOS is usually too slow to punish with. If palu whiffs a move and someone gets in close, she's going to have a tough time getting them off of her. Fast characters have a much easier time getting in, forcing her to space fairs more as opposed to flinging projectiles or bair walling. Against some characters, this is enough, but any matchup that forces this play pattern is at best even.

Despite everything I just said, I don't think pichu is that bad. Maybe I just haven't fought a good one yet, but you can get off some serious punishes against him, culminating in very early kills, which offsets his size and speed. I agree that wario could be tough, mostly because of his massive air control, which gives him a huge amount of effective range, and also makes him difficult to catch with EF or uair for kills. I personally struggle vs some of the better projectile spammers, but I think that's because I don't use her reflector enough, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how those matchups go until I get more experience vs them.
 

peekpeek

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#4
Fast characters give her the most trouble, especially short ones. Big characters are basically a free win.

Palu's biggest weakness is her frame data; when you have an 8f jab and no good OOS options, you don't win when someone gets on top of you. Nair OOS whiffs against most of the cast, fair OOS is good range but whiffs shorties (and is slower than a shieldgrab), while usmash OOS is usually too slow to punish with. If palu whiffs a move and someone gets in close, she's going to have a tough time getting them off of her. Fast characters have a much easier time getting in, forcing her to space fairs more as opposed to flinging projectiles or bair walling. Against some characters, this is enough, but any matchup that forces this play pattern is at best even.

Despite everything I just said, I don't think pichu is that bad. Maybe I just haven't fought a good one yet, but you can get off some serious punishes against him, culminating in very early kills, which offsets his size and speed. I agree that wario could be tough, mostly because of his massive air control, which gives him a huge amount of effective range, and also makes him difficult to catch with EF or uair for kills. I personally struggle vs some of the better projectile spammers, but I think that's because I don't use her reflector enough, so I don't feel qualified to comment on how those matchups go until I get more experience vs them.
I agree with most of this.

- The only heavy that feels like a bad matchup might be Donkey Kong.
- Pichu feels nightmarish for me. F-tilt and U-tilt feel like the key moves for that matchup.
- Wario is hit or miss. I don't think he does much that Trumps Palutena, except his moves come out slightly faster?
- Mario feels like one of my the worst matchups, at least relative to how the character is typically regarded.
 

leafgreen386

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#5
I agree with most of this.

- The only heavy that feels like a bad matchup might be Donkey Kong.
- Pichu feels nightmarish for me. F-tilt and U-tilt feel like the key moves for that matchup.
- Wario is hit or miss. I don't think he does much that Trumps Palutena, except his moves come out slightly faster?
- Mario feels like one of my the worst matchups, at least relative to how the character is typically regarded.
My most-used moves in the pichu matchup are fair, nair, and jab. Sh falling fair is your bread and butter, with high range and low landlag, which leads into pretty much everything. Jab does basically the same thing as ftilt here, without leaving you massively vulnerable if you mispredict; it catches frontal approaches, taking advantage of pichu's low range. Nair is my anti-air of choice here, and I almost never use utilt in that matchup. Utilt is a move I use more vs tall characters, since I can use it as an option select for them trying to cross me up with a jump-over. I also like dash attack for plowing through stuff, and grab is one of her better punish options. Bair, sadly, will often miss in this matchup, so I use it sparingly.

Can't comment more on the others, since I haven't fought them enough yet. There's a good wario at my locals, so I'll have to get some more matches with him next time so I can get a better idea on how to deal with his BS. From what I've fought against him, his air mobility gave me a ton of trouble. He's able to punish things that don't seem like he should, and trying to juggle him is near impossible.
 
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#6
I have been having trouble with the Fox matchup. I feel like he can just oppress me and overwhelm me constantly, especially in the air. Any tips for beating him?
 

leafgreen386

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#7
I have been having trouble with the Fox matchup. I feel like he can just oppress me and overwhelm me constantly, especially in the air. Any tips for beating him?
I haven't played the matchup much, so this is mostly theorycraft, but you probably want to give yourself some room to retreat and simply dashdance camp him. Palutena likes it when others approach her, since she has a lot of really strong options to punish with. Bair and dash attack go through attacks; ftilt and fair have great range; and her initial dash is huge, letting her easily dodge approaches and come back in with a grab. Against slower characters, she can make people approach by spamming projectiles against them, but fox is too fast for that to be safe. You're basically not going to use her projectiles except when you already have advantage. If he refuses to approach, you can try to slowly work your way in or bait out attacks with zoning aerials. Aim to be no further than EF range at any given time, so if he tries shooting lasers to force your approach, you win the trade and get a possible combo off it.

As for what to do if your opponent gets in on you, palu doesn't have a whole lot of options for relieving pressure on her. If she's in the air, she has generic options like airdodge or double jump, but she can also use upB to get away if the opponent is chasing her high into the air (such as when fox chases for uair, may require predicting the jump due to its startup), or use her counter to steal momentum back. If she's on the ground, shieldgrab or spotdodge -> jab/grab/dash attack are probably her best options for getting back into the game.
 
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#8
I agree with most of this.

- The only heavy that feels like a bad matchup might be Donkey Kong.
- Pichu feels nightmarish for me. F-tilt and U-tilt feel like the key moves for that matchup.
- Wario is hit or miss. I don't think he does much that Trumps Palutena, except his moves come out slightly faster?
- Mario feels like one of my the worst matchups, at least relative to how the character is typically regarded.
I agree with the DK matchup. Of all the heavies he's the only one who really gives me some issues.

Pichu is tough, especially since its basically immune to EF lol. (exaggeration)

Wario is obnoxious and I feel it starts out more in his favour than Palu's because of his quick airspeed and weird set of moves and ability to smother Palu's air game with his quicker hits.
 

peekpeek

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#9
I agree with the DK matchup. Of all the heavies he's the only one who really gives me some issues.

Pichu is tough, especially since its basically immune to EF lol. (exaggeration)

Wario is obnoxious and I feel it starts out more in his favour than Palu's because of his quick airspeed and weird set of moves and ability to smother Palu's air game with his quicker hits.
Pichu is basically immune to both EF and Reticule, and landing F-smash ends up being really hard as well. Everything about Pichu makes him hard to deal with.

I feel like Wario is relatively easy to stack damage on with reticule (no projectile to cancel, nice round target, non-oppressive air speed), and his aerial movement and awkward comeback limitations make him a good target for landing EF reads.
 

Luigifan18

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#10
Pichu is basically immune to both EF and Reticule, and landing F-smash ends up being really hard as well. Everything about Pichu makes him hard to deal with.

I feel like Wario is relatively easy to stack damage on with reticule (no projectile to cancel, nice round target, non-oppressive air speed), and his aerial movement and awkward comeback limitations make him a good target for landing EF reads.
Non-oppressive air speed? Wario's air speed is one of his best attributes! In fact, he has the eighth-fastest air speed.
 
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#11
Non-oppressive air speed? Wario's air speed is one of his best attributes! In fact, he has the eighth-fastest air speed.
Wario is one of my boyfriend's mains and I am always surprised at how good he is in the air, and how easy it is for him to position and maneuver around in the air. He's obnoxious and I always have issues dealing with him even though I face him all the time. lol
 

leafgreen386

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#13
Huh, I guess I'm wrong. I've typically had good luck hitting him with reticule, but maybe they just weren't being aggressive enough. Maybe fall speed is more important for evading reticule than lateral movement?
Probably, but both matter. In the air, sudden change in vertical position is the most common cause of missing, because it's easier to change vertical position quickly while in the air. On the ground, any sudden changes in velocity will throw it off completely, since it fires at an angle. You can dodge it by either jumping or just running straight at her.
 

KatKit

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#14
I wonder what you all think about her matchup against Wolf.

Gimping him isn't too difficult when he's off stage, but when he gets in your face, he's pretty scary (at least for me). He's one of my least favorite matchups, but I might be doing something wrong, IDK.
 
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leafgreen386

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#15
He's rough, since his laser is just good enough that you have to approach, but not so good that you can reflect it and use it for yourself. Might be some jumping autoreticle stuff you can do to counter it so you don't have to rely on a jump-in. Jumping over his projectile to hit him is such a telegraphed option, so it's something you'd rather avoid doing, but try to get a stage with platforms, since they make it a lot easier to get around. As for what happens when he gets on top of you... that's not so much a wolf thing, but just a palutena thing. It's a problem she has against everyone.
 

FartyParty

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#16
Best matchup is vs Piranha Plant. Here moveset is perfectly suited to keeping PP away, punishing everything they do, and hitting them with her projectiles. PP is essentially a sitting duck for Auto-Reticle. They can shield it, sure, but evading it is beyond the ability of most players.

Worst match: Pichu or maybe Roy. I've been getting wrecked by Roy players lately when I'm playing Palu. Roy gets in too fast and having disjoints that he can space makes him a nightmare for her.
 

DudeNificent

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#18
I find Samus to be a tough match up. If she gets a chance to get a full Charge Shot, she can hold it and instead of having your head in the game, you are waiting for when to fire a reflector. The best thing to do is just play your game and not worry about CS but if you do that, Samus forward air will rip you apart, and if they condition your shield, you will get grab punished plus rockets eat shield. If they are patient enough, they will eventually hit you with CS. I havent really found my answer yet against Samus, though Im sure there is one.

I found Pikachu and Pichu match ups not bad really. I used to hate them so much, but if you space out d-tilt, use up-tilt intelligently, and pressure their recovery (it is possible trust me, D-Smash and Up-Smash is your bust friend in this matchup) Its very doable.

Mario is a nightmare, he has the most answers for your options, and his dash attack hits low, bypassing shield invincibility.

Fox putting shield pressure with drop down nair is rough, but otherwise doable.

Thats about it for my really tough matchups as Palu. I dont think any of them are horrible enough to be too worried though, and I probably just need more practice with the Mario matchup.
 
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