Palus counter underwhelming?

[Hydde]

Dont you think that her counter is kinda subpar In comparison to everyone else?

I mean, on activation the hitbox is a very small area in front of her and sometimes leave you even in a worst position because you can get counter countered when she wiffs the hit.

Also the effect is sub par. It kills but at very high %s or after countering an inmensely poweful hit (all counters do this anyway but way earlier)

I would not mind the power if the hitbox was bigger tho, or at least had a better animation more fitting for a goddes.

Look at corrins counter for example.

Palutenas counter doesnt need to be as mounstrous, but if the counter acted as a hitbox around her, with the same launching power and dmg, i would be pleased with it.

Right now i feel it uninspired and weak. If she could receive a buff, this would be probably my first and maybe onlye wish.

Thoughts?

 

[Deleted member]

well it's also a reflector so perhaps it's to balance it?

 

[Luigifan18]

well it's also a reflector so perhaps it's to balance it?

This just about sums it up. The only other counter move that doubles as a reflector is K. Rool's Gut Check, and that only works from the front and has considerable endlag if it doesn't counter or reflect anything; Palutena's Counter/Reflect Barrier doesn't have this limitation, so I wouldn’t be surprised if they instead made it weaker than the average counterattack as a balancing factor.

(Also, at least in Brawl, Wolf’s Reflector was a reflector that doubled as a counterattack... well, sort of. It technically wasn't a counterattack, but worked like one in practice, since it had a few intangibility frames on startup and transitioned from there into the frames where it had a hitbox, and after those frames were over, it was just a reflector as long as it was held (i.e. holding it for more than a few frames left Wolf wide-open to non-projectile moves). If Wolf was attacked during the intangibility frames of his Reflector, more often than not, it would zap his attacker during their endlag. This behavior was unique to Wolf; Fox's Reflector had no intangibility frames (but I think its hitbox came out a little faster to compensate). Does Wolf's Reflector still have this intangibility/pseudo-counterattack quirk in Ultimate?)

 

[FartyParty]

I don't find it underwhelming at all. As @faygoshill pointed out, Palu's counter is also a reflector so making the counterattack a little weaker is an appropriate balance. But even if it's weaker, it doesn't seem to me like it's a huge difference in power. I've never had any issue with the hitbox being small either.

 

[scalpel]

Palutena's projectile reflecting game was heavily nerfed going into Ultimate. Before, characters like Villager were just plain easy for her. Lumping reflect into counter removed her all-powerful control over projectiles because it now shares all the weaknesses and clunkiness of counter, where before it had no weaknesses and was a defining aspect of Palutena; players would pocket pick Palutena specifically to annihilate projectile characters.

Personally, I would love Palutena to lose Counter altogether, and have it replaced with her original Reflect Barrier. Palutena was never known for her counter. She was known for her projectile reflecting prowess, and she has lost some of her identity by losing Reflect Barrier.

 

[Goddamn_Angela]

I disagree, considering how utter garbage it was in Sm4sh.

I think her Counter works well for what it needs to be/do. You shouldn't even really be using it that often as a counter tbh, just mainly as a reflector or a way to punish your opponent if they get too careless and easy to read. Also, I've rarely, if ever, miss with it.

I do miss reflect barrier though but eh. Counter is still a good way to soak a strong hit.

 

[Gerbs]

Honestly just fine with how her counter is. I like typically like using counters as more of a unexpected breakout, not something to camp and get kills with. Also it typically feels rather lame, as counters do in general - but that's just more my unpopular opinion.

 

[Luigifan18]

Honestly just fine with how her counter is. I like typically like using counters as more of a unexpected breakout, not something to camp and get kills with. Also it typically feels rather lame, as counters do in general - but that's just more my unpopular opinion.

Me, I view counters as more of a defensive tool to spare one's shield from heavy abuse and force an aggressive opponent to back the eff off.

 

[Downshift]

Counter is great against heavies like KRool, DK, Ganon and especially DDD.
I don't know how many times I've KO'd a DDD by countering their Rocket Hammer or Dedede Jump, or a Ganon by countering Warlock Punch or Utilt. It takes away the fear and mindgames those moves rely on.

 

[Mark The Page]

One of the most unique traits of Palutena's counter is that it doesn't stall in the air. Almost every counter, and may reflectors, will halt your movement to make it less effective. Palutena and Dr. Mario are the only characters who can counter opponents below them while falling.

Also note that the potency of Palutena's counter has been nerfed as a universal change. As attacks in general are now faster and safer to use, counters too are easier to use successfully. If counters still had their Smash 4 knockbacks, everyone would be Corrin (whereas now not even Corrin gets to be Corrin).

 

[Monkey4274]

well it's also a reflector so perhaps it's to balance it?

Even Roy’s counter has more knockback.