At the moment I'm concerned about Incineroar's viability as his neutral and disadvantage are going to be awful.
-No projectile, meaning he can't force approaches
-Horrible movement speed both grounded and in the air (he looks slower than Ganon), meaning he will have a terrible time closing the distance to his opponent if they have a projectile or good defensive tool.
-His specials afford him no approach option either, like what Ganon has.
-He looks easy to juggle and seems like he's going to have an awful time landing just based on the metrics of his aerials. He's going to depend way too much on air dodges.
-His recovery is one of the worst in the entire series. Its seriously horrible, and Darkest Lariat doesn't even help as much as it should.
It's easy to say those things with the inrormation presented and i would have to agree with you too, but there are also some key points being missed here.
I will start by agreeing that yes incineroars speed is THE slowest.
But comparing him to sm4sh ganon is a little off. I think he will resemble ganon a lot but the weaknesses are completely different.
Ill talk about ganons first flas which was recovery.
1] inciniroar has armor on his specials,(iframes on neutralB near startup) opponentes attempting to gimp him only did damage as his armor allowed hom to continue the special. Yes this includes upb. Infact if you try to challenge side b offstage, he can power through the attack, grab you, then choose to fail the lariat so now you are in disadvantage as he closer to stage.
2] he doesnt go into freefall after his specials, he can side b and no go into tumble, mixing up his options, ganon it was either side b, recover high, or recover at the last possible second.
3]upb isnt as deadly as it looks, as long as incineroar is at least a short hop in length above the stage he can upb then jump air dodge back to ledge,[potentioally] taking edgeguarder with him]
4]a little something else to add, incineroar does have a counter, so he kinda has a second airdodge which helps if he isnt too low when recovering.
5]oh yeah, he cant get rockcrocked when upbing, auto better recovery
Ganons next flaw was he had to approach like mentioned with lack options when he did.
1]Incineroar, gets free revenge boosts when you spam projectiles, add this to the fact he has a stronger back throw than ness, and presuumably almost as strong fthrow as his bach throw. Getting grabbed by him is never a good idea. Also, if the percents arent high, he could go for down throw to short hop upb at the ledge and drag you to the bottom of the stage after 30% if they arent heavy all while making it back himself. Ganon couldnt do much woth grabs other than put them in disadvantage(honestly is still a good option but ganons never did that succesfully) the punish he has against shielded opponents is wayyyyy better.
2] his tilts, incineroar can land his tilts into some meaty damage, with darkest lariate being the combo finisher which kills after 100% this point kinda bleeds into the next topic (kill confirms) but ganom approaching could usually get a dtilt in but there was very little he could do afyer that, besides maybe a juggle, the endlag of dtilt for him was too slow to combo.
3]upsmash, incineroar has ganons upsmash from sm4sh, very fast, very strong, and almost no endlag. With slightly smaller hitboxes however. This will be where incineroars meta most likely develops, him using fsmash to bait foxtrotters. But maybe that will be my playstyle, its such a good move nOt to abuse.
I know the approach portion wasnt the most convincing but it is miles above ganon's
I lastly wanted to talk about kill confirms and juggling,
1]He wont be juggled, he can counter, he can upb away from them, he can lariat(with i frames of course), he doesnt even need to air dodge bacuase that would be the only time he could be punished.
2] killing... oh boy he is a heavy in disguise but his fsmash, frame 16 is a little slow but easy for lege jump and ledge roll punish, its basically a slightly STRONGER warlockpunch, warlock (not reverse)doesnt kill until 60% incineroars fsmash? 45% [on medium weights] from the middle of the stage[with rage] (w/o it's on the edge of the stage)
But the throws and dtilt kills i mentioned earlier, he never had to make hard reads to kill early, he just has it.
These are just things i found out about him that i wanted to share and respectfully disagree with what are mentioned as weaknesses.
