Out of Shield (OoS) Options

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
305
#1
I keep seeing different recommendations for Palutena's best options out of shield, so I want to see what everyone is doing that seems to work for them, other than just jumping out of shield and escaping of course.

Some guides say to use SH Nair OoS since it's the fastest option (3F jumpsquat + 5F startup = 8F OoS), however it doesn't seem to reliably hit even a good portion of the roster. This is a problem because Palu struggles with the small rushdown types that Nair misses like the Pika rats, Y Link, Fox, Greninja and Squirtle.

The other option I've seen suggested is SH Dair. This seems to reliably hit everyone in general due to its sweeping hitbox that covers very close to the ground with a SH, but it's slow to come out (3F jumpsquat + 10F startup = 13F OoS). That 13 frame startup is slower than every jab and grab in the game AFAIK, and is also slower than the endlag of a good number of the moves you'll be trying to punish. The saving grace there is that Dair has one less frame of landing lag than Nair does, so whiffing it isn't really any worse than whiffing Nair.

SH Bair is another OoS option I've seen suggested, but you have to be facing the right direction for that one to hit. It's also slower than most other fighter's options at 11F OoS. This moves seems so situational that given any scenario, either Nair or Dair would work better.

Consensus seems to be that this is a glaring weakness in her kit, but I think we might be able to make it workable if we hammer out all her best options in certain scenarios.
 

FartyParty

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#2
I use Nair against characters I know it will hit. Otherwise I either try for a grab or just jump away and try to reset neutral.

Also, you can use SH bair regardless of which direction you're facing, it's just a lot slower if you're facing the opponent b/c then you have to drop shield first, which add frames, then do an attack cancel bair, which adds more frames for the turn-around animation. So basically not worth it lol.
 
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scalpel

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Mar 14, 2008
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339
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Central USA
#3
She has no OoS options except n-air in some match ups, and retreat.

I find n-air to be safe regardless if it lands. Because if the opponent doesn't get hit by the n-air, you can second jump anyways. After whiffing short hop n-air out of shield, second jump and falling n-air sometimes works and catches them.
 
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Scum310

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
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Location
Torrance, CA
#4
I know it's in general, not the best option in Ultimate the horrible frame data on much of her options actually makes it so that grab is tied as her second fastest OoS option at 11 frames. Which of course, isn't the fastest option. But it can work as an alternative to Bair OoS if your facing your opponent.
 

DudeNificent

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Joined
Apr 2, 2019
Messages
4
#5
I like to use Dash attack out of shield, with tilt stick. Its a quick option with an invincibility frame. I use this on shorter characters, and pichus that like to poke shield with ftilt, Sometimes I start this with a dash or roll back if I dont feel safe right out of shield. I also like this against ganon's that are smart, since they use jab on shield, because its fast and safe and decimates shield.
 

PichuTheGod

Smash Rookie
Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
3
#6
"Palu struggles with the small rushdown types that Nair misses like the Pika rats"

They are NOT rats, they are mice!!!
I am truly offended.
 

PichuTheGod

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Joined
Apr 29, 2019
Messages
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#8
Differences between mice and rats may seem obvious to many, but some of the differences may be more subtle than you think. Of course they both fall into the rodent family and both can cause extensive damage if they invade your home, but if you have them in your home, would you be able to determine which one you have? Depending on which one you may have in your home makes a huge difference when it comes to treating them.
How Can You Tell a Mouse from a Rat?
If a homeowner has a sufficient amount of time to look at the rodent, they may be able to identify it correctly. However, when you’re in your kitchen and see something scurry across your floor your fear and shock may overtake your ability to say “oh that was a mouse” or “oh that was a rat.” Then you’re left wondering, “was that a mouse or rat?”
Mouse vs. Rat – Size Matters
The typical House Mouse (Mus musculus) is anywhere from two to four inches in length, as opposed to the common, and much larger, Norway Rat which measures seven to nine inches in length. Of course, it may be easy to distinguish between the two if both are at adult size, but a juvenile Norway Rat that has not reached full size can look similar to an adult House Mouse.
Mouse vs. Rat – It’s all in the Appearance
Mouse vs. Rat comparison chart Photo Credit: Orkin
Although coloration of mice and rats are similar, there are a few differences in other features that would help you distinguish between the two. Starting with the snouts of both mice and rats, mice will have more of a triangular nose whereas a rat’s nose is blunter.
When it comes to ears, mice have large, floppy ears however rats have larger ears in size compared to mice but not in respect to their body size. Mice also tend to have long, thin tails with hair but rat tails will usually be hairless and scaly.
Rat Behavior vs. Mouse Behavior – Is there a Difference?
Although both rats and mice fall into the rodent category, there are some differences in their behaviors. Even though they are smaller in size, mice tend to be a bit bolder than rats. Mice are usually curious and will explore new things, including traps. It’ll take more than a baited trap to trick a rat though. Rats typically live in fear, so they are very cautious about new things and won’t explore like mice. It takes rats a lot longer to investigate new things as opposed to mice, which sometimes can make it difficult for trapping.
When it comes to nesting, mice are skillful climbers and have no problem inhabiting the attic in your home. Due to their small size, mice can also fit into the smallest of holes, allowing them to access parts of your home you didn’t think anything could fit in. Rats, on the other hand, can climb but prefer to inhabit lower levels of a structure, such as a basement or a crawlspace.
Mice vs. Rats – Who Causes More Damage?
The fact is that if you have either one of these rodents in your home, the damage can be significant and it is imperative that you have a professional come in and address the situation.
Both rats and mice can gnaw on various structures and wires in your home, which can lead to fire hazards. Mice have weaker teeth than rats, which means that any food source that is properly stored in glass or metal can prevent the mice from contaminating it, but that may not be the case with rats. Rats are much stronger than mice and have been known to gnaw through various building materials, including aluminum, wood, glass, sheet metal, and even cinder blocks.
Can Rodents Cause Health Problems?
Not only can the rodents cause structural damage to your home but they are also a public health pest.
“Rodents can cause a lot of damage and can transmit bacteria and other disease agents, so it is best to have the problem taken care of properly and right away,” said Dr. Richard Cooper, staff entomologist at Cooper Pest Solutions.
Rodent infestations can become huge headaches for homeowners, so it is best to prevent them as early as possible. If you do notice mouse or rat activity in your home, be sure to contact your local pest or rodent removal company before they cause significant damage to your home.
 

Downshift

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 16, 2008
Messages
305
#9
The typical House Mouse (Mus musculus) is anywhere from two to four inches in length, as opposed to the common, and much larger, Norway Rat which measures seven to nine inches in length.
Pichu and Pikachu are both about 12-16 inches long... far closer to the size of a large rat than a mouse.

Starting with the snouts of both mice and rats, mice will have more of a triangular nose whereas a rat’s nose is blunter.
Pichu and Pikachu both have heads purposely designed to resemble the round shaped head and flat face of a human baby so people will duped into subconsciously thinking, "Awwww... it's so cuuuuuute!"
Art Marketing 101.
This Pika trait again resembles rat's blunt noses more than a mouse's pointy one.

Mice also tend to have long, thin tails with hair but rat tails will usually be hairless and scaly.
Pichu and Pikachu both have those thick tails, opposite trait from a mouse's thin tail.


They're rats.
 
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