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Out Of Grab Options 3.6

Rapid_Cher

Smash Ace
Joined
Dec 18, 2014
Messages
579
Location
Flip Side
NNID
PM1723-9875-4071
I would like to hear some of the standards and alternatives to grab followups + possible chain grabs and what percets they work at! Grabs in general have always been secondary for my smash experience . . I suppose I'm also looking for grab situations/approaches + tech with Ganon. I know of jump grabbing while running to reduce frames.

One of my favorites is to waveland backwards to behind an adversary then grab upthrow, up B ..HA. Other than that, my grab game is basically just shield grab, throw somewhere and hoping something hits.
 

CORY

wut
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 2, 2001
Messages
15,730
Location
dallas area
most of the cast, you're going to just dthrow-followup at pretty much all percents. the followup might change (grab vs aerial vs tilt vs etc...) but that's your basic gameplan out of grabs.

i like to assume that unless the character is a fastfaller or super floaty, you can generally dthrow-regrab a few times, but i don't have a solid list on that (i think someone was trying to make one but it didn't work out in the end).

on fastfallers, you can uthrow-regrab for a chaingrab at low percents, if there aren't any platforms nearby (i think this is defined by approximately metaknight fallspeed up, nothing definite though). if there are, you can do tricky stuff like dthrow-jab-dash(boost)regrab. that loses to good sdi on the jab, pushing them too far out for the regrab, but it gives good positional advantage and you might be able to b-reversal a gfc to catch them. you can also be REAL ballsy and dthrow-neutral b and regrab, but they have to not be expecting it (or not be mashing a fast button out of the slap to hit you with before you can get the regrab). this is basically the disrespect option.

on floaties, you can usually get at least one dthrow-regrab at 0, iirc, but not much past that. on some of the super floaties (like, jigglypuff) you can dthrow-afc-regrab for goofy ****, but i don't know the damage ranges and how tight your timing has to be on it. it might be more of a "are you awake" check, but it's good damge if it works. the major problem with floaties is them not falling into aerials at kill percents out of dthrow, but you can dthrow-upb and catch them with that at higher percents. i don't know who it works on to kill at kill percents, but it's an actual followup once you can't gain any advantage out of the dthrow on them.

fortunately, we have fthrow to help mitigate this issue a bit, as well. technically di behind ganon is the best di for dthrow, as far as gaining distance away from him, but the best option is to get to a platform or offstage and force the ganon to stop dthrow chaining and finish it with an aerial. if you can make that option be forward di (so you're facing offstage, get the grab and dthrow. best di is behind ganon, but best option is to go offstage to make the chain throw stop working) you can sometimes get people at mid-high percents with an fthrow and have their di work towards making it a REALLY low angle with it's good power to set up for edgeguard situations.

most of the time, you'll be better off with dthrow-aerial-edgeguard setup, but it's a good mixup to keep in mind and employ, especially if the character in question can get out of the followup aerial due to fallspeed.

bthrow is pretty much never used. you can get some decent positional advantage out of it sometimes, but you'll still mostly be better served by dthrow-read di-followup.

as for getting the grabs, it's a bit rough as ganon. get used to using the boost grab (begin your dash attack, cancel into the grab. it's the same concept as dacus) and pivot grabs when you can. assume that against the floatier characters that if you land afc you can grab them out of it (so, like, kirby, peach, samus, zelda, jiggly. characters around that fallspeed. there are some with slightly faster fallspeeds that you should be able to grab, but i need to do more work on figuring out how the airtime can vary...). you can't tomahawk very well as ganon, due to low speed and being a semi-floaty, and the best option we had for it previously was nerfed (you could auto cancel nair on someone's shield super close range and if your timing was on point you could grab before they could, if they went for the shield grab or sit in shield options) so we don't get many chances to just set up for grabs straight up. you'll have to resort to being clever and making people tech into you and other silly stuff. the only mostly universal option i can think of would be to do either version of flamechoke and read the opponent missing the tech and mashing the crap out of neutralb to get the jab reset into a (dash)grab.
 

Yallo42

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 17, 2015
Messages
80
Location
Ohio
I like down throwing under a platform and jumping up to regrab :smirk:
Also wavelanding is really useful for getting grabs. Especially if you waveland>jab/ftilt a lot so they are conditioned to shield when you waveland. Props to @ CORY CORY for such a detailed explanation!
 

HiroProtagonist

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2014
Messages
100
Location
Richmond, Virginia
I like down throwing under a platform and jumping up to regrab :smirk:
Also wavelanding is really useful for getting grabs. Especially if you waveland>jab/ftilt a lot so they are conditioned to shield when you waveland. Props to @ CORY CORY for such a detailed explanation!
Seconded, conditioning with waveland jabs and ftilts is by far the best way to land grabs. Combine with mixing in side-b and you can put the fear in the enemy's heart. I've been working on mindgaming people with this sort of stuff in friendlies lately and it is beyond satisfying when it works.
 
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