Our Juggling Problem

[-Mars-]

So i've been using a little trick for the last couple of weeks and surprisingly it works better for me than any other attempts to get to the ground.

When hit into the air....immediately double jump> FF Dair.

Very few characters are fast enough to punish it and the few that are are probably juggling you forever anyways.

I'm pretty positive that it doesn't auto-cancel technically.....but the move finishes before you reach the ground meaning you can quickly shield, spotdodge whatever.

Sonics do it all the time with their dair...so I got to thinking about ti since ours is comparable.

Thoughts?

 

[Judo777]

I use that everytime i get the chance. However i dont get juggled too often. We have a few other options like b reversals for tricky spacing and i actually like to vertically space with dair tbh. Sometimes i bait a swing then use dair since she pulls up a little bit to punish it. It works more than you might think.

 

[Juushichi]

I didn't think about this, though it seems to make sense. I'll try to use it in the future.

 

[riocosta123]

edit: reeding comprehenshun

 

[B!ggad]

When using dair/being juggled with my opponent still onstage I usually wait till I'm almost touching my opponents shield from above.

They'll release their shield too early since they are expecting you to airdodge into them, aerial their shield etc.

Also has its uses when theyre following you high up or offstage obviously, hitting them or not.

Never tried immediatly DJ dair I think, need to see it in play.

 

[<π]

I don't like dair because it has TONS of lag if you don't AC it (It does have auto cancel frames) the move last a really long time and some times double jump dair isn't an option. Dair's pause is a double edge sword the way Biggad uses is, as a stall just above opponets expecing another option makes it great but people who are wait and watching and can't do anything anyway that pause gives them more time to react a lot of the time.
attempts at supprized dair have gotten me killed quite a few times, because even though y opponent didn't initially expect it the were able to react and throw out and uair or some other move that'd beat it on reaction.

which leads to the biggest issue. you need to be certain your opponent can't hit you when you dair. generally when you are being juggled the opponent is beneath you so a lot of the time dair's angle isn't enough to avoid that because dair can be delt with on reaction by so many characters.

Another issue is if you are still in hit stun you don't fall so (Im pretty sure I'm correct saying this) even if you jump and dair you'd still be concidered in hit stun in many cases and you won't get the speacial stall and fall effects of dair. this kind of magnifies that big problem because more time in the air is more time for the opponent to get under you.

So in short. double jump Dair can be a great idea just make sure it is impossiblefor your opponent to capitalize on it. Dair leaves you extremely vulnerable and as sheik you never want to be in the air without a second jump so...


I like to go off stage to avoid jugglers. most won't follow you out when they do (espeacially if you still have a jump) you can generally stall with needles and out manuver them with chain and vanish to make it at the very least to the edge.
I'll use dair sometimes to queickly make it to the edge if my opponent is try to set up a zone that prevents me from landing on stage and will get further under me as I continue to fall.

 

[-Mars-]

Another issue is if you are still in hit stun you don't fall so (Im pretty sure I'm correct saying this) even if you jump and dair you'd still be concidered in hit stun in many cases and you won't get the speacial stall and fall effects of dair. this kind of magnifies that big problem because more time in the air is more time for the opponent to get under you.

So in short. double jump Dair can be a great idea just make sure it is impossiblefor your opponent to capitalize on it. Dair leaves you extremely vulnerable and as sheik you never want to be in the air without a second jump so....

Correct, you need to get out of hitstun first otherwise you just do the stupid stall thing and have wasted your DJ for no reason.

That's a thing I need to work on though is keeping my DJ. A lot of times I use getting hit upwards as an opportunity to get some free needle charges in and occassionally it comes back to bite me in the butt.

 

[Tewx2]

I used to do this, but it's safe against almost no1. It's a nice gimmick to get down to the stage but I wouldn't rely on it.

Dair is also a good airdodge punish, and ledge get ups as well.

 

[phi1ny3]

Sorry for the necro bump guys, I wanted to talk about this more

When using dair/being juggled with my opponent still onstage I usually wait till I'm almost touching my opponents shield from above.

They'll release their shield too early since they are expecting you to airdodge into them, aerial their shield etc.

Also has its uses when theyre following you high up or offstage obviously, hitting them or not.

Never tried immediatly DJ dair I think, need to see it in play.

I played around with this a couple of times, it works pretty well, dair is a very unorthodox mixup that can let you reap the rewards, shame it wasn't as good as it was in Melee. I'm not sure about DJ dair, I should try it, I'm deathly afraid though of letting go of my double jump unless I really need to mix it in.

Another thing I've played around with is b-reverse needles, shifting your momentum with needles is actually somewhat useful if you do it preemptively, because although sheik doesn't shift/move as fast as lucario or snake when they b-reverse, she has the advantage of having the least amount of commitment to canceling her B-move, and can even get a bair or aerial on the opponent for whiffing.

You have to kinda do it early though, or you won't get out of the way of most large range aerials. It also really sucks if you don't get it consistently, because although it's rare, doing a random sideB is not fun at all lol

@<3: Yeah, I like it offstage a couple of times, most people expect you to die from the falling or don't expect it to come down that fast.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

I used to do this... then people started catching on. And then I'd be offstage without the use of my double jump...

It's a nice mix up if they're some1 who is going to blindly chase you, but if they're just waiting for you on the ground... or have 6 midair jumps <____< it doesn't always work out so well.

One thing I saw earth do though, was wait until he was about to land on the stage, then dair to bait the early grab/u-smash/u-tilt/etc, to reverse the situation. Like pop the other guy in the air, while ur on the ground.

O I thought this thread was familiar... I already posted on it waaaaay back when on my old account.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, that's what Biggad said, because most people expect sheik to be down at the floor level and to have already done her attack or dodge. That imo is a pretty interesting mixup.

 

[Sailor Princess Twenty-Two.]

Yeah lol, I didn't read your post until after mine, because I thought it was a new thread lol.

Forever observant