Options from Ledge

WoK_a^2

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
22
#1
Wuttup my fellow dark lords,

I'm trying to think of every option Ganon has from ledge because there are just so freakin many, and decided that I would make a video that showcases all of his options. The issue? THERE ARE SO FRICKIN' MANY. So I probably missed some. Below is a list that I've compiled so far, and I'd lvoe it if you guys could throw out anything that I've missed...

I realize that not all of these are optimal, but i'm just trying to show all of the choices that he has. I'm super open to discussion on what options are good in what situations, along with people showing videos of matches where it holds up.

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Grab ledge

Jump/Roll/Get up/Attack + (100% versions)​
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MOST IMPORTANT IMO

Infinite ledge stall
(drop and double jump so that you don't lose invincibility)
I think this is the most important cuz it gives ganon invincibility which we have to abuse, and gives time to think of which of these options are the best in the moment.​
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No Impact Land (NIL) - [Technically anything you can do from standing, but these are common options I see]

Jab
Wizards Kick (down B)
Gerudo Dragon (side B)
Grab
Ftilt
Shield (Grab/roll)
Run off ledge (drift back)
back air
(reverse) up air
waveland​
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Ledge Dash (Let go of ledge, jump, waveland into stage) - [same as above]

Jab
Ftilt
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Reverse Ledge Dash (same execution as above, but waveland off stage)

[For edgeguarding]
Uair
bair
[Getting back on again]
fair (think falcon but with a fist instead of dat knee)
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Rising aerials from ledge

Uair
Nair (i would like discussion on this, any use at all? easier to execute?)​
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Edge Tech (because why not throw it in here)
Did you jump?
bair
uair
air dodge
maybe up b
Forgot to hit jump or playing peach
up b
air dodge? (if close enough/you are mango)

 
Last edited:
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
#3
Here are a few options you're overlooking:

NIL dsmash can be good because if you hit the first hitbox of dsmash, it will send them offstage behind you.
NIL usmash can be used to cover some high recoveries. Plus it's just a massive hitbox that Falcons often run into when they spam nair :)
NIL up-b is a thing I've thought about. I don't think it's the best of options because of how punishable it is. But it's an option you should think about.
NIL dtilt also works.
NIL run off drift back can also be used for fair and dair. bair is the obvious one, but fair and dair can work if your opponent ****s up and they punish harder. You could actually go for shield poke dair if you know how to do it if they are playing in their shield next to the ledge.

Ledge dash can also be used into a buffer roll to get center stage super quick.
You can also get some grabs from ledge dash if they are shielding or just not expecting you to move that quick.
And ledgedash can be used for dtilt.

For RLD, you can also jump over them with it and bair/uair/dair. But yeah, usually you're doing fair from it when you're trying to get back.
You're also forgetting about the pseudoturtle, where you RLD double jump and then waveland off the bottom platform.
RLD for edgeguarding...you have a few more options than just bair and uair offstage. You can RLD and double jump and then land with a uair/bair/dair (or even fair sometimes). You can RLD offstage into dair.

Ledgehop aerials...can you actually nair back on stage? I've never really thought about that. I think uair from the ledge is really good because it is invincible and also covers the ledge. You can also kill people at high percentages with it if they land on stage right next to you.
Ledgehop fair is also a thing, but you cannot land on the stage with it. The fair will hit right next to the ledge, but you will be forced to recover. So unless it's guaranteed, don't do it. But don't forget, it's an option. It's like a ledgehop knee where you're forced to recover after.
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,534
Location
The back country, GA
#4
Ledgehop should imply NIL.

other ideas....
ledgehop uair regrab
RLD bair/uair regrab ledge
RLD dair (more range than drop-zone dair)
RLD bair/uair > dj bair/uair
RLD ff, dj FP bair/uair offstage (sick)
ledgehop runoff ff, dj uair back onstage
ledgejump, drift back fair, dj to ledge
ledgehop, sh ff early fair offstage, dj to ledge

It's good to show what is invincible too.
ledgehop jab (underused)
FP ledgehop grab (very hard)
FP ledgedash jab (hard enough)
ledgehop uair onstage (commitment)
 

X WaNtEd X

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 24, 2009
Messages
1,647
Location
Lowell, MA
#5
ledgehop uair regrab
Is this possible? I feel like someone has told me it is before, but I just don't believe it. I've tried out so many different things to try and make this work.


RLD bair/uair regrab ledge
Are you saying double jump before the uair/bair and then ledge cancel to regrab the ledge? Or are you saying go off stage with either and then double jump to regrab the ledge? Or am I missing something?

It's good to show what is invincible too.
ledgehop jab (underused)
FP ledgehop grab (very hard)
FP ledgedash jab (hard enough)
ledgehop uair onstage (commitment)
I also believe the startups of down-b and side-b are invincible. So you're at least going to get a hitbox out if you time them correctly.

And is FP ledgedash jab really invincible the entire time? How do you possibly ledgedash fast enough to get out a jab before invincibility runs out?
 

-ACE-

Gotem City Vigilante
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
11,534
Location
The back country, GA
#6
Is this possible? I feel like someone has told me it is before, but I just don't believe it. I've tried out so many different things to try and make this work.
Yeah, tipman and I both have it down pretty well. Very underused. It has to be FP but it gets easy after a while. Try using away to drop from ledge, and roll to up and hit c-up also. Easiest way to be FP.


Are you saying double jump before the uair/bair and then ledge cancel to regrab the ledge? Or are you saying go off stage with either and then double jump to regrab the ledge? Or am I missing something?
As soon as the RLD is completed and you your waveland ends, before you fall and grab ledge, dj bair or uair instead, then fall and grab ledge when done (drift out, hit them, drift back to ledge). It's like a ledgehop bair but more range and you can regrab ledge (and you don't have to do a FP uair either).

I also believe the startups of down-b and side-b are invincible. So you're at least going to get a hitbox out if you time them correctly.

And is FP ledgedash jab really invincible the entire time? How do you possibly ledgedash fast enough to get out a jab before invincibility runs out?
Yes. Very hard. You have to be FP on the drop, the dj, hit R on the soonest available frame to wL (don't wait until the dj has reached its peak height) and jab on the soonest available frame (about 3/4 of the way through the waveland).
 
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Sebovich

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 9, 2013
Messages
93
Location
Sweden
#7
Does anybody know, roughly how many frames you are invincible grabbing the ledge to no impact land, if frame perfect?
 
Joined
Jun 12, 2015
Messages
54
#12
Getting a little away from the topic but platform shenanigans (especially on yoshi's) are also an option.
-RLD to DJ platform waveland to center stage
-RLD to DJ waveland back to regrab ledge
(also any sort of dropzone areal from here)
-RLD to DJ to WL off platform back to DJ stomp through platform (edge canceled or not)

-LD to fullhop waveland back to ledge


Also, one of my favorite options is invincible ledgedash --> turn around ftilt. Really good crossup that works once or twice a set against people who don't give you respect on the ledge
 

WoK_a^2

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
22
#18
Ayy sorry I'm slacking gboards, I'm gonna try and compile all of this information back into the original post. I'm having a hard time imagining some of these though, if you guys have sets/vods of them or have a capture card and willing to demonstrate them? Having visual resources for our dark lord scrubs could do wonders.

If someone could get a setup with controller inputs shown too (i think 20xx te has this?) that would be ideal.
 

Oldiz

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 15, 2015
Messages
125
#19
I've had a lot of success with NIL then dash attack, it's trajectory basically reverse the situation.
 

WoK_a^2

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 29, 2014
Messages
22
#20
Wow can't believe I haven't thought of that before. I'll have to add in it whenever I actually get to doing this. Got finals comig up but for sure within a month
 
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