Options against opponents on the ledge?...

[TheReflexWonder]

Looking at our general frame data and Steeler's hitbubble thread, a few moves stand out among the rest as especially useful for covering options.

For Squirtle, we have Dash Attack, D-Air, D-Smash, and U-Smash.


Dash Attack - 9/7% (sweet/sour)
Start up: 1-5
Hit: 6-22 (6-9 sweet, 10-22 sour)
End: 41

Stays out for 17 frames. The most important part is that it beats almost all <100% ledge attacks while covering other <100% grounded ledge options at the same time. If the ledge has any potential to gimp your recovery, a Dash Attack will cause an opponent who is on the ledge to bounce against it and go straight up, which puts the opponent in a dangerous situation. People shouldn't stay on the ledge that long, but, it's worth noting.


Down-Air – 10% (1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 1%, 5%)
Start Up: 1-5
Hit: 6-7, 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-21, 23 (strong hit)
End: 50

Stays out for what is effectively 18 frames, has a disjoint below the tail, has strong knockback at a low angle, and allows us to move around if we guess incorrectly. Should be able to cover virtually every option against most characters, with the exception of some ledgehop aerials, and ledge options that put the opponent very low to the ground.


Down-Smash – 11%
Start up: 1-16
Hit: 17-30
End: 52

Range comparable to F-Tilt, decent knockback, low knockback angle, and it stays out for 14 frames without a sourspot hitbox. This should catch multiple grounded options on reaction, and perhaps even some ledgehop aerials.

Up-Smash – 16% (3%, 13-5%)
Start up: 1-18
Hit: 19 (weak pop-up hit), 20-25 (gets weaker the later it hits)
End: 65

Decent range, can be done out of shield, and is Squirtle's most potent KO move by a mile. Should be able to beat some ledge attacks, and has enough range to cover other grounded options with comparable frame data.

For Ivysaur, we have F-Air, U-Air, D-Air, F-Smash, U-Smash, and Bullet Seed (lots of useful stuff).

Forward-Air – 12%
Start up: 1-14
Hit: 15-20
Landing Lag: 4-40 (28 frames)
End: 50

Hits above and below Ivysaur, is entirely made up of disjointed hitboxes, and deals solid damage/knockback. Can safely challenge ledge jumps and ledge attacks without putting yourself at risk.

U-Air – 16%
Start up: 1-11
Hit: 12
Landing Lag: 2-40 (22 frames)
End: 52

(The hitbox is like D-Air, but with the bottom rounding out Ivysaur's body.) Very good damage and knockback. Huge hitbox. Relatively safe if you guess incorrectly, since it pushes you to the ground. Can cover ledge rolls and ledge climbs, and is the best power move out of shield when U-Smash is too slow.

D-Air – 10%
Start up: 1-10
Hit: 11-12
Landing Lag: 3-52 (28 frames)
End: 63

Very punishable if you miss, but the hitbox is enormous, so it is great for punishing things on reaction without having to be in a specific position, and it's one of the best options for beating ledgehop aerials. Excellent for covering many things at <100%.

Forward-Smash – 16%
Start up: 1-16
Hit: 17-19
End: 59

Great damage and knockback, and covers a lot of distance. Can be charged and let go on reaction to all grounded options, as well as most ledgehop aerials.

Up-Smash – 17%
Start up: 1-25
Hit: 26-31
End: 59

Obscene knockback and a large hitbox, but VERY slow. That said, you can use it out of a dash animation, and it can beat most ledge jumps, as well as some laggy ledge attacks if you use it out of shield. Don't expect it to cover multiple options at once, but if you guess right, the opponent should be KO'd as a result. Since ledge jumps are usually much faster than ledge climbs at 100+%, you should be relatively safe if you try to punish a potential ledge jump and the opponent uses a ledge climb instead.

Neutral-B – Bullet Seed – 4+% (pop-up does 4%, each seed does ~1%, can deal up to ~60%, though ~45% is a more realistic maximum)
Start up: 1-3 (invincible during start up)
Hit: 4-5, 16-23 (constantly hitting, 7 frames at a time)
End: 85 (minimum)

Lime denotes start-up invincibility,
Yellow signifies attacking frames, and
Red indicates ending frames (including start-up frames on a buffered airdodge on ledge jumps), except when
Cyan points out (ab)usable invincibility frames left over after the animation of a perfect ledge jump is over. Generally speaking, just do not to put yourself in a position where their fastest move would hit you before their invincibility frames run out, but feel free to space safe punishment for afterward.

Note--Anytime the invincibility frames of the ledge option have a shorter duration than the initial ledge grab invincibility of 21 frames, the opponent can use the option immediately and have up to 21 invincibility frames on start-up instead.

Bowser:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-3, 7-16, 17-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-32
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-3, 4-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-17, 18-49

Spoiler

Ledge Climb is a slow animation that doesn't involve much movement.
Ledge Roll involves a lot of movement and doesn't hit you like Ledge Attack does.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-49, 44-49, 50-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-17, 18-21
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-49, 50-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack makes his right hand appear at the ledge immediately after the animation starts. Only visible on left ledge.
Ledge Climb makes his right hand appear at the ledge after about half a second. Only visible on left ledge.
Ledge Roll makes Bowser's body lean back a little and scrunch up.

Captain Falcon:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-27, 28-53
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-21, 22-31
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-12, 13-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-22, 23-47

Spoiler

Ledge Attack makes his leg movement hesitate for a moment.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-41, 38-41, 42-68
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-48, 49-58
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-21, 22-24
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-49, 50-78

Spoiler

Ledge Climb and Ledge Jump make the "jump" sound at the beginning of the animations.

Charizard

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-25, 26-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-33
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-24, 25-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-31, 29-31, 32-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-48, 49-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out and causes his head to dip forward.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Diddy Kong:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-25, 27-29, 30-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-30, 31-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-53, 49-53, 54-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22 (can trade with U-Air, but cannot avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-64, 65-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack makes two sounds leading up to the attack.

Donkey Kong:

Ledge Hop U-Air: 1-21 (maximum), 6-8, 10-36

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-6, 8-15, 16-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-11, 12-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-17, 19-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-40, 38-40, 41-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-22, 23-25
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-50/52-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb makes a sound at the beginning of the animation, and it makes his head and right hand move at the beginning of the animation.
Ledge Roll is the only animation in which he wiggles his feet a great deal. It makes a sound after he's done wiggling his feet.

Falco:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-31, 32-53
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-35, 36-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-57, 55-57, 58-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22 (can trade with N-Air, but cannot avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-61, 62-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out, and his beak is low/points downward right before the attack.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.
Ledge Jump is the only animation that causes him to have any sense of urgency in his animation.

Fox:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-31, 32-53
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-34, 35-48

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-57, 55-57, 58-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-61, 62-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.
Ledge Jump is the only animation that causes him to have any sense of urgency in his animation.

Ganondorf:

Ledge Hop U-Air: 1-21, 6-16, 17-33

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-27, 28-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-21, 22-33
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-11, 12-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-24, 25-48

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-39, 36-39, 40-68
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-48, 49-58
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-18, 19-21 (can only buffer airdodge to avoid immediate punishment, though)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-59, 61-78

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out, and it puts his head clearly above the stage and not far from the ledge.
Ledge Climb makes a sound at the beginning of the animation, and it keeps his head low and at the greatest distance from the ledge.
Ledge Roll makes a sound at the beginning of the animation, and it keeps his head low and close to the ledge. Also, his head hesitates in that position before he rolls.

Ice Climbers:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-24, 26-29, 30-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-29, 30-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack causes them to lean forward over the ledge.
Ledge Climb involves a cartwheel.
Ledge Roll causes them to lean back before rolling.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-41, 38-42, 43-70
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-21, 22-24
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-52, 53-79

Ledge Attack is LOW.


Ike:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-20, 22-24, 25-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-29, 30-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack hesitates for a moment, as if feeling recoil, before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb is one fluid motion, and he puts his head forward, sort of like his pummel.
Ledge Roll also causes him to put his head forward.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-42, 40-42, 43-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-55, 56-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack keeps his head high and forward.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll keep his head low and close to the ledge.

Ivysaur:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-28, 29-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-31, 28-38, 39-59
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-60, 61-79


Jigglypuff:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-19, 20-24, 25-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-30, 31-35
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-31, 32-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-48, 42-48, 49-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-55, 56-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-18, 19-21 (can only buffer airdodge to avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-50, 51-79


King Dedede:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-32, 33-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-50, 46-50, 51-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-63, 64-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack makes his head rise up pretty much continuously.
Ledge Jump's animation puts his whole body above the ledge very quickly.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll hesitate for a moment before getting his head above the ledge.

Kirby:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-17, 19-22, 23-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-30, 31-33
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-31, 32-59

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-46, 42-51, 52-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-17, 18-21 (can only airdodge to avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-49, 50-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Link:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-24, 26-28, 29-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-24, 25-49

Spoiler

Ledge Roll doesn't hesitate at the ledge and is a fluid animation.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-53, 50-53, 54-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-21, 22-24
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-62, 63-79

Spoiler

Ledge Climb makes two sounds during its start and is a continuous animation.
Ledge Roll makes two sounds during its startup and hesitates.

Lucario:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-14, 16-18, 19-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-29, 30-48

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-37, 34-37, 38-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-64, 65-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack starts a frontflip above the ledge and hesitates.
Ledge Jump starts a frontflip above the ledge and doesn't stop.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations, and both stay below the ledge for the first half of their animations.

Lucas:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-25, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-25, 26-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack involves a frontflip and makes the "psychic jump" noise.
Ledge Climb puts his head low to the ground and doesn't make the "psychic jump" noise.
Ledge Roll puts his head low/forward and makes the "psychic jump" noise. It is the only animation that doesn't hesitate.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-40, 39-43, 44-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-18, 19-21 (can only buffer airdodge to avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-56, 57-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack causes him to pull his head and hand back.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both cause him to put his head low and forward over the ledge.

Luigi:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-19, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-29, 30-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-43, 39-43, 44-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22 (can trade with N-Air but cannot avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-53, 54-79

Spoiler

Ledge Climb's animation looks more like he is pushing is face upward, rather than his whole head, and it makes his head face forward afterward.
Ledge Roll puts his head low and facing downward.

Mario:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-19, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-29, 30-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-43, 39-43, 44-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22 (can trade with N-Air, but cannot avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-53, 54-79

Spoiler

Ledge Climb's animation looks more like he is pushing is face upward, rather than his whole head, and it makes his head face forward afterward.
Ledge Roll puts his head low and facing downward.

Marth:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-23, 23-26, 27-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-31
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-11, 12-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-25, 26-49

Spoiler

Ledge Roll is the only animation that doesn't hesitate at the ledge.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-46, 43-46, 47-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-58
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-21, 22-25 (can immediately Up-B, but is otherwise punishable)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-56, 57-78

Spoiler

Ledge Attack has a bright flash in front of him right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb makes two sounds during the animation.

Meta Knight:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-27, 28-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-30, 31-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack puts his body above the ledge the fastest, and it's the only animation that puts Meta Knight sideways. This is easier to discern on the left ledge, since he faces the camera that way.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-41, 38-41, 42-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-56
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-21
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-61, 62-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out, and it puts his body above the ledge the fastest.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animation, and both have Meta Knight stay under the ledge for the first half of the animations.

Mr. Game and Watch:

Ledge Hop N-Air: 1-21, 7-24, 25-34
Ledge Hop F-Air: 1-21, 10-12 (13-31 for weak hit), 22-44

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-20, 23-27, 28-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-12, 13-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-59, 54-58, 59-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-17, 18-21
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-59, 60-79

Spoiler

All options have two obvious 2D animation frames beforehand.
Ledge Attack's second animation frame pulls out a bell behind him.
Ledge Climb's second animation frame does not have a bell and is slow.
Ledge Roll's second animation frame does not have a bell and appears quickly.

Ness:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-25, 26-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack involves a frontflip.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll put his head low and forward.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-42, 38-42, 43-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-18, 19-21 (can only buffer airdodge to avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-55, 56-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out, and it moves his head and hand up and backward.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll make a sound at the beginning of the animation, and they both move his head low and forward.

Olimar:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-14, 16-22, 23-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-28, 29-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack causes a bright flash in front of him before the attack comes out.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-42, 38-42, 43-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22 (can Whistle for Super Armor, but can't avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-64, 65-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Peach:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-7, 9-15, 16-54
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-32
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-10, 11-21 (ugh)
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-30, 31-50

Spoiler

Ledge Roll involves an obvious flip animation.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-46, 43-46, 47-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-20, 21-23 (can trade with N-Air on Frame 23, but cannot avoid immediate punishment)
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-56, 57-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animation.

Pikachu:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-19, 21-23, 24-53
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-32
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-23, 24-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-58, 54-58, 59-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-55, 56-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-26, 27-29
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-59, 60-79

Spoiler

Ledge Jump makes his tail curl up during the beginning. All other options swing it from side to side.

Pit:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-28, 29-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-25, 26-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack involves an exaggerated frontflip.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-41, 37-41, 42-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-49, 50-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack causes him to lean his head and arm backward. Doesn't make a sound until the attack is out.
Ledge Climb puts his head low to the ground and makes a sound at the beginning, but doesn't hesitate beforehand.
Ledge Roll puts his head low to the ground and makes a sound at the beginning, as well as hesitating a moment.

R.O.B.:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-26, 27-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-28, 29-49

Spoiler

Ledge Jump involved a frontflip.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-43, 39-43, 44-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-57, 58-79

Spoiler

Ledge Jump pulls him up much faster than the rest of the animations.

Samus:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-27, 28-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-32
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-12, 13-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-21, 22-48

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-40, 37-40, 41-68
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-20, 21-23
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-45, 46-78


Sheik:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-33, 34-59
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-39
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-36, 37-54

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-58, 56-58, 59-75
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-64
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-20, 21-23
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-69, 70-89

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.
Ledge Roll makes three sounds throughout the animation.

Snake:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-20, 24-26, 27-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack makes him swing his legs from behind him beforehand.
Ledge Climb pulls his legs straight up and puts his head low and forward.
Ledge Roll pulls his legs straight up and puts his head high and upward.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-42, 40-42, 43-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-55, 56-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Sonic:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-21, 23-31, 32-59
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-39
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-30, 31-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack causes a bright flash behind his head before the attack comes out and does not put his foot above the ledge.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll put his foot above the ledge almost immediately.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-43, 40-43, 44-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-58, 59-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Toon Link:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-24, 26-28, 29-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-30, 31-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

Spoiler

Ledge Attack and Ledge climb both make one sound during their animations.
Ledge Roll makes three sounds during the animation.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-53, 50-53, 54-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-21, 22-24
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-61, 62-79

Spoiler

Ledge Climb angles his shield straight sideways. Only visible from left ledge.

Wario:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-28, 30-32, 33-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-26, 27-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-54, 52-54, 55-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-55, 56-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Wolf:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-22, 24-31, 33-69
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-14, 15-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-33, 34-59

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb. Ledge Jump, and Ledge Roll make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-57, 55-57, 58-89
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-60, 61-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.
Ledge Jump is the only animation with any sense of urgency.

Yoshi:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-17, 19-23, 24-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-33
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-13, 14-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-21, 22-49

Spoiler

Ledge Climb pushes his head upward.
Ledge Roll pushes his head downward and makes three sounds during its animation.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-37, 33-37, 38-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-25, 26-28
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-59, 60-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animations.

Zelda:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-24, 26-31, 32-51
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-32
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-10, 11-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-28, 29-50

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animation.

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-36, 33-36, 37-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-20, 21-23
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-51, 52-79

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll make a sound near the beginning of the animation.

Zero Suit Samus:

<100% Ledge Attack: 1-16, 18-20, 21-55
<100% Ledge Climb: 1-29, 30-34
<100% Ledge Jump: 1-15, 16-21
<100% Ledge Roll: 1-22, 23-49

100+% Ledge Attack: 1-56, 52-56, 57-69
100+% Ledge Climb: 1-54, 55-59
100+% Ledge Jump: 1-19, 20-22
100+% Ledge Roll: 1-65, 66-79[/collapse]

Spoiler

Ledge Attack doesn't make a sound until right before the attack comes out.
Ledge Climb and Ledge Roll both make a sound at the beginning of the animation.

 

[Zigsta]

Awesome idea, Reflex.

 

[Steeler]

i like this a lot

if there are some characters without hitbubbles, i can make them myself

 

[T-block]

This is a great idea o.o

I'm gonna try doing this next time I play.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

The main thing is, we can see what options would be safest/would cover the most against each character. I imagine stuff like full hop D-Air with Squirtle, jumping Bullet Seed with Ivysaur, and full hop B-Air with Charizard would be really good overall.

 

[Bomber7]

sadly frames is something I dont understand.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

sadly frames is something I dont understand.

It won't matter later. It's eventually going to get simplified into, "If the opponent does x, y will beat it." Stuff like that.

 

[Bomber7]

oh. ok. thanks man.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

oh. ok. thanks man.

Yeah, the data is just here so that we look at them options and discuss which of our moves covers the most options. Afterward, we can just say, for example, "Squirtle D-Air is the most reliable option for covering (character)'s options on the ledge, but his U-Air is good for beating a couple things, too."

Plus, a fair amount of get-up attacks only last four frames. Frame-perfect Bullet Seed could potentially beat them.

Still, it's mostly about what covers the most options, like a Charizard N-Air.

 

[Toby.]

I only just noticed this thread. I like it!

 

[Ishiey]

This looks like something I wanted to do on the Wolf boards a while ago...

I'll help out a bit with gathering frame data and hitbox vids, maybe even get some of the others on the Wolf boards to help as well. Idk if reacting is as important with PT as it is for Wolf (when opponents are on the ledge), but being able to discern the startup animations is pretty important. All the more reason hitbox vids are a good idea ;D

Let me know if there's any particular character you want me to tackle first, otherwise I'll just randomly throw stuff in this thread or PM it to you.

 

[Miles.]

Very solid idea Luis.

=D

 

[Magik0722]

Wheres squirtle, ivysuar and charizard?

 

[PokemonMasterIRL]

Bump.

This is too good to lose.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Sorry, guys. I'm in a really rough spot.

If you want to help, please get me some information for characters and I'll update it when I can.

If you see characters without good frame data for this stuff (of which more than a few exist), you can find the hitbubbles and help.

 

[Toby.]

From some rambling about ivysaur's jab in relation to edge guarding:

In regards to ivysaur's jab: it SUCKS SUCKS SUCKS during the initial hits, where the opponent has forever and a day to punish us. Once it gets going, though, it has a larger disjoint than MK's fsmash (!!!!) and hits fairly rapidly. Because of this, if we space it properly at the edge (and time it so that we are going at max range and speed before they can get back up) we are essentially limiting our opponents options to one (jump) in most situations. At this stage we can also end the jab almost instantly whenever we want, which means we can easily counter whatever they try anyway.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

If only! Turn the sound on before clicking.

 

[Kith]

Thunda-Moo, I want you to know that thanks to this link, myself and everyone I know are currently in an Objection War

 

[Magik0722]

If only! Turn the sound on before clicking.

That was Objectionable

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Everything I say is objectionable, but that doesn't mean it's not true!

 

[Magik0722]

That's a Penalty

 

[Katakiri]

I've seen enough.

 

[Thunda-Moo]

Well played. Well played, indeed.

 

[Ishiey]

Frame data directory: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=258564

A few of the individual character boards have this data. I'll post GW and MK here, you can get their planking frame data from DMG's thread: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=267257

LEDGE OPTIONS
General
Ledge invincibility: 1-46
Minimum Time on Ledge: 25 frames
Maximum invincibility after ledge drop: 21

Notes:
- ledge let-go cannot be buffered
- ledge let-go invincibility doesn't stack with action invincibility

Less than 100%
Attack
Duration: 55
Hits on frame: 25
Hitbox Duration: 25-28
Cooldown: 27
Invincibility: 1-23
Vulnerable Frames: 32
Shield advantage: -28

Get Up
Duration: 34
Invincibility:1-30
Vulnerable Frames: 4

Jump
Duration: 16
Invincibility: 1-15
Vulnerable Frames: 1

Roll
Duration: 49
Invincibility: 1-31
Vulnerable frames: 18

100% and Greater
Attack
Duration: 69
Hits on frame: 39
Hitbox duration: 39-42
Cooldown: 27
Invincibility: 1-42
Vulnerable frames: 27
Shield advantage: -27

Get Up
Duration: 59
Invincibility: 1-55
Vulnerable frames: 4

Jump
Duration: 19
Invincibility: 1-19
Vulnerable frames: 0

Roll
Duration: 79
Invincibility: 1-62
Vulnerable frames: 17

Ledge Options
General
Ledge invincibility: 1-46
Minimum Time on Ledge: 25 frames
Maximum "usable" ledge grab invincibility: 21

Notes:
- Ledge let-go cannot be buffered
- Ledge let-go invincibility doesn't stack with action invincibility; whichever lasts longer will override the other.

Under 100%:
Ledge get-up
Duration: 34
Invincibility: 1-30
Vulnerable frames: 4

Ledge attack
Duration: 55
Hits on: 24
Hitbox duraiton: 24-28
Invincibility: 1-21
Vulnerable frames: 34
Shield damage: 1

Ledge roll
Duration: 49
Invincibility: 1-27
Vulnerable frames: 22

Ledge hop
Duration: 1-12
Invincibility: 1-12
Vulnerable frames: 0

Above 100%:
Ledge get-up
Duration: 59
Invincibility: 1-55
Vulnerable frames: 4

Ledge attack
Duration: 69
Hits on: 55-59
Invincibility: 1-59
Vulnerable frames: 10
Shield damage: 1

Ledge roll
Duration: 79
Invincibility: 1-60
Vulnerable frames: 19

Ledge hop
Duration: 17
Invincibility: 1-17
Vulnerable frames: 0

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Thank you. I'll probably get to work on this now that I have a little nudge. Sorry for being irresponsible.

 

[Steeler]

seems like ledgehopping is by far the safest option and is quick enough that you often can't react and punish in time....

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Necromancy! I stopped working on this when I realized that this frame data wasn't around for most characters, Now that I have a frame data repository for PSA, I will actually get to work on this when I'm not at work.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Big update. Though I haven't yet listed what beats what options, you should be very pleased with it.

 

[T-block]

loving it

any reason why you haven't listed dash attack as an option?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I haven't listed all the options yet because I'm lazy. I'm getting there.