Rant / Other Online makes me hate the game

[Oz o:]

It's been over three months of quarantine, and I can't believe it took me over a year to realise just how bad the online is. It's degrading and insulting to do Quickplay if you're a player that's genuinely looking to improve. You lack self-respect, if you're anything like me. I even went as far as to cry earlier, at how miserable this is. After three months of this, I realise that not only am I constantly stressed and annoyed from not improving and losing to worse players constantly, but I even feel I've gotten worse at offline (aka the real game). So it's this in-between where I suck at online and I'm messing things up offline because I've been playing only online this whole time (which was where I was supposed to be good at).

And you know what? I really don't undertstand the people who recommend I just stop playing. This is easily one of my favourite games. I didn't spend around 2000 hours just testing the waters. I want to be good. It's like if you love a sport but really hate the training, like Muhammad Ali.

Online is like this bad and miserable insult of the game I love.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Have you tried lobbies?

 

[Alicorn]

QP is an awful way to improve, its the worst Smash online mode ever. Its better to spar with a friend in arena that way you can get proper feedback and actually have fun playing it.

 

[Oz o:]

Have you tried lobbies?

QP is an awful way to improve, its the worst Smash online mode ever. Its better to spar with a friend in arena that way you can get proper feedback and actually have fun playing it.

I did, and I do, just not nearly as often. A lot of the time I don't feel like setting up with one specific player or having to rotate...again, it's not that much of an excuse, it's just that you sometimes just go with what's closest and fastest to you, and that's Quickplay.

I admit, a lot of the time I do make Arenas, it's usually of better quality, even if it's against "lesser" players. It at least helps to have control over your own ruleset and who gets to stay.

 

[Alicorn]

Well if you ever want to play a few rounds we can sometime.

 

[DougEfresh]

Oz o: I've seen similar posts/threads from you before and while I feel you on everything you've said each time, it's difficult to come up with anything that hasn't already been stated.

If you insist on playing online to get matches against other people though, I will reiterate the battle arena recommendation over QP. The wait between matches in a lobby sucks (if doing rotations in private or public arenas) and it may also not be ideal or especially efficient to go on discord to find 1v1 arena matches (or anther's ladder if you prefer), but any of these three options will offer a lower risk of tilt and self-doubt than QP folks (that much should be obvious by now, especially during quarantine).

If you want to regain your semblance of offline skills, I'd also suggest incorporating CPU matches in the regular smash mode. As someone who's primarily relied on online play as their means of playing and improving in Ultimate, this is something I want to start doing soon myself; it's less about fighting the CPU (which you should clearly be able to beat) and more about getting comfortable with your inputs again in a controlled, lagless environment.

At the risk of being blunt, I think the bottom line is that you lack discipline: there are different online modes which you know are less likely to give you a dissatisfying experience playing the game, but you don't want to put the time in for any set up or effort it takes to actually enjoy those with other people who are more likely to be good players that can give you genuine advice! And on the other hand, you are adamant about playing this game when you know it ruins your mentality the way you've been playing it (seems unhealthy to me, but that ain't my business) and have difficulty accepting that breaks are necessary and often good for us. They help keep us motivated and it's much easier to improve important game skills when you have a good mentality and aren't burnt out (taking several days between grind periods is seriously not that big of a deal, your skill and knowledge aren't going to suddenly vanish into thin air and you may find you're even better than before since you're not so prone to overthinking).

Whatever you do though, just please take a different approach and course of action than you have over the last months of this quarantine. These are trying times and I get that, but putting too much stock into Ultimate and your skill at it isn't going to make things any better (much more likely worse Imo). It's just not worth letting it control so much of your self-esteem. Finding other hobbies to enjoy in your free time alongside Smash should help you find a better balance that'll allow you to have the mentality and productive work ethic you'll need to excel again in an offline competitive environment once tournaments are able to resume again months into the future.

 

[Oz o:]

Oz o: I've seen similar posts/threads from you before and while I feel you on everything you've said each time, it's difficult to come up with anything that hasn't already been stated.

When you mention it like that, I forget that I do that, and I realise I have done this already a couple of times as it is. It's embarassing, but it's also something that needed to be mentioned. I really need to cut this habit, as well.

All of what you said is just specific and what I needed to hear. You kept it very civil and patient as well, especially since you know my context and previous history.

The break thing is something I'm always feeling strange about. I don't know if I just play the game out of compulsive behaviour and repeat the same cycle or what. It's clear I do at least like the game, and I'm just really not that smart when it comes to getting better and doing things that's better for my mental state. I'll see how I handle that. I'll try to take up your advice and see if I can incorporate playing against CPUs and at the very least play Arenas instead of Quick Play. I really have no excuse for going back there and hitting my head against the wall.

 

[StrangeKitten]

I second the CPU recommendation. Be prepared for the frustrations that come along with it: reading your inputs, frame-perfect air dodges, parries any time your smash attack was a good, early-stock ending read, and tons of stupidity even at level 9. That being said, I had a feeling that if I tried to play online, it would just ruin my offline play, and your initial post here proved my suspicion to be true. So, we can conclude that CPUs are better practice for tournaments than online. It's simply better to learn the timing of things as they are in a lagless environment. You can also get somewhat decent matchup knowledge. It won't apply 100%, since CPUs don't quite play the same way people do, but you'll still learn their attacks, the timing, and such. I'll use my friend Kris as an example: one of the characters they play is Duck Hunt. I three-stocked them with Wolf, and while a large part of that was my being the more practiced player, I also went in knowing the timing of Can and how to play around it thanks to having fought the CPU.

 

[DougEfresh]

When you mention it like that, I forget that I do that, and I realise I have done this already a couple of times as it is. It's embarassing, but it's also something that needed to be mentioned. I really need to cut this habit, as well.

All of what you said is just specific and what I needed to hear. You kept it very civil and patient as well, especially since you know my context and previous history.

The break thing is something I'm always feeling strange about. I don't know if I just play the game out of compulsive behaviour and repeat the same cycle or what. It's clear I do at least like the game, and I'm just really not that smart when it comes to getting better and doing things that's better for my mental state. I'll see how I handle that. I'll try to take up your advice and see if I can incorporate playing against CPUs and at the very least play Arenas instead of Quick Play. I really have no excuse for going back there and hitting my head against the wall.

Yea from the sounds of this, it seems like some introspection and better self-awareness could go a long way for you. Keeping track of your emotions and what's pissing you off is a good way to generally keep your mentality in check and take away that negative stimulus so you can continue playing the game in a fun, productive way.

About the CPU thing and continuing what StrangeKitten said about it, I think it could be good to set it to lvl 7 (maybe 8) at first since that seems to most realistically "simulate" human habits and playstyle. Sometimes the AI of lvl 9 CPU characters is absolutely wack (Wolf comes to mind as being one of them), and while you should still be able to handle it, it may not give you the best habits for responding to specific situations since it's considerably detached from what you're likely to deal with in an offline match against a human (even in tourney).

To touch on the topic of taking breaks one more time, I think your takeaway should be to not make Smash take up so much of the limelight. It's understandable to have that goal of wanting to improve as much as you can (I'm in the same boat, have sunk just as much time into Ultimate as you from the sounds of it and have at different points felt very similarly to your experiences of frustration with online and stagnation as a player FTR), but it's just as important to take care of yourself.

I highly recommend watching a video by Armada titled, "How to Improve at Smash without playing". It's rather insightful about how you can work on the skills that are crucial for success in Smash without having to drill countless hours of playing the game with little or no intent that only lead to the plateau or regression you're feeling now. Idk if you like playing other game genres (I personally like RPGs and adventure games that I can progress through at my own pace to help offset the intensity of focus and reaction times Smash frequently demands), but something more mellow can be very helpful. Eating well and get some kind of activity (I'm a gym rat, but even regularly walking can be good if that's more your speed) can go a long way toward improving your self-esteem and focus when you do come back to the game.

At this point, this is all I really have to say for any kind of helpful advice, from here you'll have to be aware of what is and isn't working for you and figure out the right solutions for you on your own. Best of Luck!

 

[StoicPhantom]

I tapped out finally after returning back from a like two month hiatus almost. Played over the last few days and came to the conclusion that while I like playing the game casually, especially with friends, I really don't like it competitively.

First thing I noticed was the controls and the buffer system. I played Melee a little bit with a friend during my break, and it shouldn't have been enough to ingrain any habits but it did. It was such a fluid control system for the most part that I forgot how to "fight" Ultimate's and had to relearn how to do it. The amount of games I lost due to misinputting only once is pretty ridiculous. It really made it apparent how ridiculous it is to spend more time fighting the controls than your opponent.

Second thing was when I was fighting someone and it became very clear how much he was using dodges versus me. I could count on one hand the amount I did and this guy pretty much used them as a substitute for movement. I'm sure online plays a lot into this but it really is ridiculous how safe and effective they are. I'm not someone that uses them very often and that may or may not handicap me. But overall it just makes the game feel clunkier than it needs to be.


I haven't been able to play offline in so long that I'm not sure how much online plays into all of this but I don't really like how the game fundamentally plays I realized. And it doesn't make much sense to keep playing something that's always going to bug me from the minute I start playing.

I know that we share similar complaints about this game, so maybe do some thinking on how much it's just online versus how much you might not like playing it from a competitive aspect. But more than that, maybe think about playing something in the meantime, until quarantine is finally over. I too noticed that online was making me worse at the game and I've started to become a more aggressive and twitchy player much to my dismay. You don't necessarily have to quit for good, but maybe think about playing another Smash game or fighting game until we can start playing offline again.

 

[Oz o:]

Every once in a while, about once a week, a friend comes over to play. At first, even though I constantly did misinputs and didn't play like I wanted to, I was super greatful to just play the game without lag. Now, I realise that I'm also part of the problem, because I constantly depend on having to get everything right to do well. I do a lot of random misinputs, like taunt or something else. Whether it is failing a combo or a misinput in disadvantage, it's ridiculous, let alone for someone who has history playing competitive Smash before this.

And it's not even like I'm not putting in the effort, because I definitely put in the energy- my hands hurts most everytime I stop playing, and it's only like 3 hours, at best. I always say this, but it always feels like there's something about this game I'm not grasping. There's so many equations you have to solve at once, and if you don't know it in the middle of a match, you're likely at a disadvantage. From what good players tell me, it's constantly about having a preset gameplan and solved solutions already in your head, which is ridiculous. And people constantly throw the word "labbing" around for literally everything. There's things you just can't train by yourself against a CPU...

This game is very stressful. I don't know if it's my age catching up to me, my reaction speed or what. There's a reason why there are so many more "prodigies" in this game than the past.

 

[DougEfresh]

Every once in a while, about once a week, a friend comes over to play. At first, even though I constantly did misinputs and didn't play like I wanted to, I was super greatful to just play the game without lag. Now, I realise that I'm also part of the problem, because I constantly depend on having to get everything right to do well. I do a lot of random misinputs, like taunt or something else. Whether it is failing a combo or a misinput in disadvantage, it's ridiculous, let alone for someone who has history playing competitive Smash before this.

And it's not even like I'm not putting in the effort, because I definitely put in the energy- my hands hurts most everytime I stop playing, and it's only like 3 hours, at best. I always say this, but it always feels like there's something about this game I'm not grasping. There's so many equations you have to solve at once, and if you don't know it in the middle of a match, you're likely at a disadvantage. From what good players tell me, it's constantly about having a preset gameplan and solved solutions already in your head, which is ridiculous. And people constantly throw the word "labbing" around for literally everything. There's things you just can't train by yourself against a CPU...

This game is very stressful. I don't know if it's my age catching up to me, my reaction speed or what. There's a reason why there are so many more "prodigies" in this game than the past.

I can understand the frustration(s) you have, although it at least sounds like you're gaining some valuable insights on your weaknesses as a player. Being self-aware, holding yourself accountable and then having the ambition to do whatever it takes to shore up those weaknesses to the greatest extent you possibly can as a human being is an exhausting process and thus needs to be managed and balanced well to see consistent success throughout (all of which this advice that's been given to you was intended to help you with). Taking care of your hand and wrist health is also very important if you want to play frequently at a high(er) level.

The game is pretty complex, and improving your understanding can be difficult (especially depending on who you play). I think the hardest thing is how there are so many match ups to be familiar with, that even for very skilled and adaptive players, it's a chore to juggle all that info and subconsciously adjust your mentality and gameplan quite often.

That being said, it makes complete sense that it's about understanding your main's strengths, weaknesses and game plan as well as general interactions/situations that arise within a match with varied frequencies. There's always something to learn, which is an aspect that I like about Ultimate (granted, I'm now in my late 20s and have only been trying to play more competitively or for player skill improvement since this game released, so I've probably had more room for growth than usual as far as competitive players go).

A last note I'll make is that it's important to identify your end goal with Smash, Ultimate or otherwise: do you want to get on the PGR? Want to be a top player in your local tournament scene or in your state? Or just play your main(s) to the best of your ability while getting as good of results as you can with them? I think it's safe to say that the stress of the game rises or decreases rather proportionately to the kind of goal you have set for yourself.

For example, my life goal is to get through 3 years of hell in law school, graduate, pass the bar and then establish + further a career as an attorney. Naturally, smash is going to take a backseat to this, but I still really enjoy playing the game overall. So when I do play, I've set the goal that I want to improve my overall skill as a player and be the best main I can be. Sure, a lot of people think he's total trash in Ultimate and/or despise his aura mechanic for comebacks, but I enjoy the movement and playstyle Lucario has to offer a lot (he's actually very demanding to play well despite the cheese he's capable of; I've learned a lot about the more advanced aspects of this game by playing Luc though). Once the quarantine is finally behind us, I would like to start competing offline in tournaments periodically when/if I have the gaps in time that allow me to focus on the game a bit more, but not expecting much beyond that and plan to just have fun playing the best I can against other people with a character I love. I might encourage you to clarify what you seek to accomplish from Ultimate/Smash so that you'll feel more satisfied as you continue playing the game.

 

[Lil Puddin]

Another infuriating thing to note is Online has a built in delay... To go with the delay that wifi play naturally has. So the delay is often lopsided. Fighting a gorl who has 5 frames of extra delay doesn't result in skill progress, obviously.

Quickplay is a sin and it needs to be BANNED.

After Zelda is banned, ofc.

 

[Minix0]

Stop taking online so seriously. Yeah, don't blame all of your losses on the online, but at the same time, there is inherent input lag added to the mode just because of the way online connectivity works. Not to mention any additional lag between you and the other player, along with the buffer system, a little more if you're using a wireless controller, etc, etc, etc... It's basically garbage, especially considering that the players on there play quite abnormally/brain dead, so learning how to get better through that isn't gonna go too smoothly. It's not impossible, heck I somehow did it through For Glory, but there are superior avenues to get better.

Just take a break and come back.