One Stop Pit Stop ; Your directory for all things Pit!

Purple · Feb 26, 2008

With a small community, having multiple threads spreading conversation will only shorten discussion. Because of this, I've decided to make a one stop thread that gives all of the information regarding Pit. Leaving only this thread, the social, and a few other threads for certain occasions available for talking.

Everyone who started each project will still have permissions to their posts, and can edit it accordingly! If anything comes up where new sections need to be added, this will be done.

Sorry for the wait on this guys :'(

Table of contents

1.) All about Pit: By Ryos4

2.) Pit's Frame Data: By Katana_Koden

3.) Pit's Chaingrab Ratios: By Maharba the Mystic

4.) Pit's Matchup Guide: By Kuro~

5. Pit's BBR Matchup Spread: By Krystedez

Ryos4 · Feb 26, 2008

Ultimate Pit Guide!

[collapse= Basics of Pit; Click to open]Pit

Created By: CorruptFate, kupo15, R@vyn and the Pit Boards

Table of Contents

1: Intro
2: Pit Attack Info
3: General Tips
4: Guides
5: Pit Advanced Techniques
6: Links to Good Threads

1: Intro:
New comer to brawl, angelic archer, winged solider of Palutena, and the hero of Kid Icarus, Pit.

Anyway, this is the Ultimate Pit Guide of the Smash World Forum. The goal of this thread is to compile all of the information about Pit in one spot. The contributors, are everyone and anyone with useful information. The information is organized in to sections that can be found in the table of contents above.

2: Pit Attack Info

B: Move Data:

Polymorphic Blades: Pit Frame Data Important thread with frame data and hit bubbles.

Key:

Attack: The name of the attack

Range: An attacks relative range according to Short, Mid, or Long. Short being the first arrow on the edge of FD (Mario Jab), Mid being the middle arrow on the edge of FD (Pit's Jab), and Long being the arrow nearest the middle of FD (DeDeDe ftilt).

%: All percentage is approximated. This list gives a fresh maximum and a degradation minimum (%) is total damage if all hits connect.

Knockback: All knockback will be on a fully refreshed attack because all of his attacks have poor knockback when decayed.

Description: A description of what the attack does.

Advanced Techs will not be listed here.

All attacks are assumed to have no DI involved

(A, Tilts attacks)

1a. A>A>A

Range: Mid

% - 3>3>5 to 3>2>2

Knockback: The first two hits have poor knockback, the last has slightly more and will keep them away from you.

Description: Does three swipes one after the next.

1b. A>A>A>A>A>A>A>A...

Range: Mid

% - 3>3>1>1>1>1>1> to 3>2>1>1>1>1>1>

Knockback: Poor. This attack will constantly hit them and can be kept up for as long as you want. The attack actually has reverse knockback which means that it draws them in slightly.

Description: Does two swipes then spins his bow around himself. (When spinning his bow this attack will hit behind him.)

2. Forward Tilt

Range: Mid-Long

% - 12% to 5%

Knockback: Ok Knock back. Sends your target slightly above a strait horizontal line.

Description: He stabs his two swords in front of him.

3. Down Tilt

Range: Short-Mid

% - 11% to 5%

Knockback: Pops them straight up. It can cause your opponents to trip. At low-mid percentages it pops them up enabling combos like up air. If a opponent is holding onto the edge of the stage and your front foot is touching them this becomes a very powerful spike, but is very hard to do. They don't have to be holding on the ledge to spike.

Description: Swings his sword at his targets feet.

4. Up Tilt

Range: Short horizontal but mid vertical

% - (16%) 3>5>8 to (7%) 1>3>3

Knockback: The first hit is when Pit puts his sword on the ground to hold himself up and it is the hardest to hit with, this knocks them up slightly The two hits are when Pit kicks into the air, the last hits sends them up.

Description: Pit holds himself up with his sword and does two kicks up.

5. Dash Attack

Range: Short-mid

% - 12% to 5%

Knockback: Sends them up and away from you.

Description: Pit runs forward and swings his sword at the feet of his target. This move has a lot of lag at the end making it one of Pit's slower moves.

6. Ledge Attack <100%

Range: mid

% - 8% to 2-3%

Knockback: Hits them behind you and off the stage.

Description: Pit kicks out onto the stage and then gets up.

7. Ledge Attack >100%

Range: mid-long

% - 10% to 4-5%

Knockback: Barely sends them anywhere. If you are over 100% it sends them back onto the stage.

Description: Pit stabs his sword onto the stage giving him more range and doesn't make him as open. Then gets up.

8. Get Up Attack

Range: mid

% - 6% to 2%

Knockback: Barely sends them anywhere.

Description: Pit swings his swords as he gets up

(Smash Attacks)

9. Forward Smash

Range: Mid

% - Two hits first hit 7% to 3% second hit 12% to 5% (if the second hit is tippered +1%) Charged first hit 10% to 4% and charged second hit 18% to 8%

Knockback: Sends them flying at a 45 degree angle away from you. One of Pits best kill moves. (Tipper does not seem to add more knockback)

Description: Pit swings his two sword one after the other, this is one of Pits best kill moves. If they are too close when you do this move, they can DI behind you to avoid the second swipe. The opposite is true if they are too far in front of you. The second swipe has all of the knockback

10. Down Smash

Range: Mid-Short

% - In front of Pit 13% to 6% Behind Pit 10% to 5%,Charged in front 19% to 8%, Charged behind 12% to 6%

Knockback: Launches them at a 40 degree angle away from you if hit by the first swipe. The second swipe acts like a Dtilt setting up for an easy Bair. Hits on both sides, so it's great if you're unsure. If your target is inside your character you will get both hits off.

Description: Pit swings one of his swords in front of himself then one behind. Another of Pits good kill moves.

11. Up Smash

Range: Mid vertical

% - Three hits (13%) 3>2>8 to (6%) 1>1>4 Charged (19%) 4>3>12 to (8%) 1>2>5

Knockback: Straight. The first two hits send your target down and can be used as a spike if done right, but are more often used to keep your target there so that they will be hit by the third hit which will send them flying.

Description: Pit swings his swords above his head and slightly lifts off the ground.

(Aerials)

12. Neutral Air

Range: Short

% - 8 hits in all, (11%) 1>1>1>1>1>1>1>4 to (8%) 1>1>1>1>1>1>1>1

Knockback: all the hits but the last have very poor knockback and thats what you what this is a damage racker/approach attack the last his has some ok to good knockback though. The last hit box has the knockback.

Description: Pit spins his bow around himself. This attack is great because it has high priority and acts like blade mail in a way.

13. Forward Air

Range: Mid-long

% - 15% to 5%

Knockback: Hits your target straight away from you. This is great for gimping and killing. It has reverse knockback if the target is really close to Pit. This only works if Fastfalled.

Description: Pits swipes his to swords in front of himself. This is a very fast attack that is good to attack forward and DI back.

14. Down Air

Range: Mid

% - 12% to 5%

Knockback: This attack hits your target straight up so isn't the best for getting kill but good for combos.

Description: When Pit does his dair, he swings one of his swords under himself. This attack is not one to be used to get out of juggling as it has mid-slow start up. there was a legend that it could spike if you hit when both swords connect. but in much testing the swords never touch.

15. Back Air

Range: short-mid (Sweetspot is short)

% - 9% to 3% Ping 15% to 6%

Knockback: When sweetspotted, this becomes Pit's best kill move sending your target slightly up and very much to the side. You can also purposely miss the sweetspot and poke them with the second half. This can be used to recover from the move quicker than the sweetspot which provides a good combo on the ground at higher %. You can also use it to fake out an opponent and it is also easier to hit with.

Again if your target is very close to you when you do this attack it can send them in the opposite direction. This only works with a fastfall.

Description: Pit connects the swords making it like a pole with a dagger at the end. He stabs you with and it hurts. The nonsweetspotted move is a little poke.

16. Up Air

Range: Mid

% - (12%) 2>2>2>2>2>2 to (6%) 1>1>1>1>1>1

Knockback: This is another multi hitting attack where the last hit sends your opponent flying Slightly up and at an angle, to the left or right depending on DI.

Description: Pit spins his bow above his head. This attack has great priority and can stop most attacks that come from above and hit your target back."

17. Glide Attack

Range: Mid

% - 13% to 5%

Knockback: Hits your target up and has great priority.

Description: Swings his sword under and in front of himself to hit his target.

(Special Attacks)

18. Light Bow/Arrow (B)

Range: It disappears after crossing the kill zones at the sides and never goes away when shot upwards.

% - Uncharged: 5% to 2%|Charged: 11% to 5%

Knockback: This doesn't have much knockback but if your target is at 400% it will kill regardless of DI but we still love it.

Description: Pit shoots an arrow that can be controlled by Pit when he is still moving or dead.

19. Angel Ring (Side B)

Range: Long

% - (How ever much you want/can get off in 10sec) 2% to 1%

Knockback: This move doesn't have knockback but Can get damage off nicely because hit sends out several hit boxes.

Description: When used on the ground Pit dashes forward then spins his swords in front of himself to rack up damage. This attack can also reflect projectiles but shouldn't be your reflector of choice. Also has a wind push effect as the attack ends. Can be held out for 10 seconds.

20. Mirror Shield (Down B)

Range: Short

% - No damage it self but deals seems to deal +1 damage to reflected projectile damage

Knockback: Has no knock back itself it the reflected projectiles knockback.

Description: Pit pulls out his mirror shield to reflect projectiles or turn melee attacks around. This attack has super armor on the pullout of the shield. It can turn melee attackers around if they hit right as the shield is pulled out, is great for gimping recoveries such as Fox's up or over B's. Can be held out for 10 seconds.

21. Wings of Icarus (WoI) (Up B)

Range: 5 seconds of free ranged flight. 3 seconds if used again without a slight break

Knockback: Doesn't have true knockback, but right as the attack is started there is a wind push effect as WoI is started. The wind push is great for messing with your opponent or for canceling any move or projectile in the game. It is not a recommended form of shield.

Description: Pit can fly freely around the stage but if hit can not use his jumps or another WoI until he lands. If this attack is not canceled with an attack Pit goes into free fall.

(Throws)

22. Grab attack

Range: Grab

% - 2% to 1%

Knockback: None to speak of, but great for clearing your move degradation.

Description: Pit knees the person he is holding to deal more damage.

23. Forward Throw

Range: Grab

% - 10% to 4%

Knockback: Does good knockback and can even kill off to the side of the screen at high percents at either side of the stage.

Description: Slashes opponents to send them flying.

24. Back Throw

Range: Grab

% - 8% to 3%

Knockback: Throws them straight back

Description: Twirls around with the enemy in tow and launches him backward doing.

25. Down Throw

Range: Grab

% - 6% to 3%

Knockback: Sends them straight up after hitting the ground.

Description: Slams opponent on the ground causing them to bounce up. It is great for combos at low %.

26. Up Throw

Range: Grab

% - 11% to 5%

Knockback: sends the opponent up and is the strongest of Pits grabs.

Description: Does a handstand and kicks opponent with both feet causing, them to fly into the air where you can shoot an arrow up at them.

3: General tips

Basic Guide to Advance Brawl:

1. Never Be Predictable: Most basic rule for advance play. Never be predictable, don't just use the same tactics. A good player will find their way around it, whatever it may be, and punish it.
2. Combos: Sure you can try to attack with the most damaging attacks every time. But it will always knock them too far to follow up. While combos with lighter damage, together will do more damage over all. Doing damage with multiple attacks gives them less of a chance to counter. But every time you knock them too far, you have to trick them once again to do more damage.
3. Know Your Character: Knowing what your character is capable of is important. What moves can string together. What attacks can kill at what %. Major weaknesses of your character. When they say knowledge is power, they are right. lol
4. Know Your Enemy: While knowing yourself is good. Knowing your enemy is even better. What moves can string together. What attacks can kill at what %. But most of all, what strengths do they have against your character.
5. Multi-Jumps: Its important to make the most out of them. They can be used to juggle your opponent in the air which is widely know. But they can also be used to mind game your opponents. Jumping once or twice near your opponent but just out of reach may cause them to try and attack you, leaving themselves open for a counter. It can also protect you for being comboed yourself. While recovering with multi jumps. Its never a good idea to use them all and fly way above stage, leaving you helpless as you descend aside from air dodges.
6. Gliding: Its always good to make use of your glide when recovering. But its best not to do the same thing over and over. Remember spamming is bad. So mix it up with glide attacks, cancels, and glide shifting.
7. Techniques: Knowing special techniques your character can perform is important. Its okay to not use every tech that is know in your normal strategy. However, it is always good to know and be able to perform everyone. After all, its always better to have something and not need it, than it is to need something you don't have.
8. Ledge: There are many ways to recover from the ledge. Basic ledge attack, rolling, ledge jump, standing, and release jump. Its important to always mix up your recoveries, as said before being predictable is bad. The more you keep your enemies guessing. The safer you will be.
9. Edge Guarding: Edge guarding can be done in many ways.
(A) The most commonly used form is just waiting near the edge and charging some attack that will kill them. While it may work sometimes, i don't suggest it
(B) Projectile gimping is also used alot. Works better then just waiting, but it also may save them on accident.
(C) Edge Hogging is another way. While it may work in some cases, its also a little cheap. And is a good way to get yourself stage spiked if you run out of invincibility frames at the wrong time.
(D) Chasing them off stage is one of my favorites. Jumping after them and hitting them further away and possible killing them off the side when they would have normally made it back.
(E) The spike and stage spikes. Yes knock them down to their doom, to never see light again. Well until they re-spawn.
(F) My favorite of all, the reflecting gimp. While it can only be done by a few characters. It is essentially the most entertaining way to kill. Example, using Mario's cape to flip them around, causing them to kill themselves. Most entertaining.
10. Spacing: This term is used to describe many in brawl. But for this guide it is about using your characters melee range. Basically if your character happens to have long range then your opponent, its best to try and keep the distance between you and your opponent, more then your opponents range, and still close enough so you can hit them. However, if your range is shorter then theirs, that's a whole different problem. If your character has no real sweet spots in its attack (sweet spots being the point of the attack that does the most damage and knock back, example being Marth's tippers.) Then best bet would want to be as close as possible to your opponent to take away their advantage, however this only works in theory, it's really for you to decide what to do.
11. Mind Games: When you run into a defensive player, who constantly run and projectile or just wait for you to attack and then punish you. Mind gaming them is how you can overcome them. Which basically means to fool an opponent into making a mistake, and then punishing them for it. Attacking and retreating, to make them swing or something. Or making it look like your going to attack forward and then hit them behind you when you know they are going to try and roll behind you. Most important advice in this section is to not think that coming up with some perfect attack pattern that you think will get you the win, but to get into your opponents head and learn to predict what they are gonna do and then punish it.

Tips on Attacks:

A: Arrow Usage:

When people first start playing Pit most of the time they stay on one side of the stage and spam their Arrows. This obviously isn't the best thing to do against players with practice as everyone knows you can do several things to avoid a projectile such as roll, powershield, reflect, shield, sidestep, air dodge and the list goes on.

Relying completely only on Pit's Arrows will make you very predictable and easy to beat, however, you still want to use your arrows from time to time to pressure on your opponent while making it hard for them to close the gap. One thing that you should find useful is to hit your opponent with an Arrow after they have a significant distance, or to aid you in gimping a recovery. Arrows can also be used to prolong combos due to the stun it tacks on. Above all an arrow at the end of each of your combos can add a few more percent, and that is important to Pit and his weaker killing moves.

An Arrow Loop also is great for mind games and will keep your opponent guessing. This will keep them on their toes making it easier for you to punish a poor air dodge (or even if they do airdodge) you can still get them with your swords. Also if you arrow loop often enough, each time an arrow goes off the screen at an upward angle, your opponent will split their focus on both you and looking for the stray arrow, even if you don't plan to use it.

Also note that if at all possible its always good to angle your arrows. One, so that if they do reflect it, there's a better chance it wont come back to you. Two, if they shield there is a chance it could shield poke.

B: Reflectors:

Both of Pit's reflectors are somewhat slow on startup so they may not always be the best option in terms of preventing projectiles but each has their specific uses. Mirror Shield is ideal for the more generic things like lasers, missiles, arrows, ect. It is also slightly faster and has super armor frames when used on the ground. Because of the super armor, even if you get hit pulling out the shield it wont stop you so if they are spamming you can still get it out. The Mirror Shields most useful ability is to reflect physical attacks, though not to the extent that Mario's does. It can be very useful for reflecting recoveries, however the timing may be difficult, within the first second or so. To start training with this technique, start with Ike, he is the easiest of the cast to reflect, both his recoveries. When you get better move on to harder to reflect characters like Mario or Marth.

The AR (Angel Ring) is generally considered more of an approach then a reflector. It pushes you forward then proceeds to pull out the swords/reflector. Because of this, it closes the gap with you and the projectile faster and if spaced incorrectly will result in you getting hit by the same projectile you were trying to reflect. AR is more useful for reflecting projectiles which are initiated and remain close to the opponents body such as Snake's Mortar or Pikachu's Thunder. The AR will hold him in place and reflect the attack against the opponent. AR also has a few AT's, and it can combo well out of infinite jab.

C: Starting the Fight:

The most common way a Pit will start the fight is with an arrow. This isn't a truly bad way to start a fight, just the most predictable. Arrows are fast and keep you at a safe distance. They also force your opponent to approach you and give you control over where they come from and what attacks they might try. It will also let you know what kind of opponent you are fighting against: defensive, offensive, patient, or eager. The main problem people see with starting a fight with arrow is that most people will see that coming and if they have a reflector they'll just throw that out, an easy way to stop this is to angle the arrow down slightly so that if they do reflect it it will not come back at you but instead it will go upwards.

The next two seem equally as common as the other and are both decent ways to approach. The first being SH Nair, a high priority attack that is especially effective against larger opponents and the second being SH Fair which has good reach and makes excellent use of Pits disjointed hit box.

D: Ledge Game:

Pit loves the edge more then you love cheese cake. When you are holding onto the edge there are so many things you can do it'll make your arrows spin. If your opponent is on the other side of the stage or even mid way just hit away from the stage, jump and proceed to launch a volley of arrows. This will keep them away and help you rack up damage. Ledgehopped Uairs, Fairs and Nairs are also options, especially if the opponent is closer to you and in conjunction with you arrows an really help to pile on the damage.

Pit can also ledge hop a Bair if you opponent is at a higher percentage as this can kill them or at least hit them far enough so you can get back onto the stage. If they are tossing items at or items weapons at you just hit down then quickly do your Up B this will cause the wind pushing effect keep the item back or at least change its trajectory to avoid it hitting Pit.

Also of note, tether recoverers like ZZS/Samus etc... can be intercepted with a weak Bair by using the move between the ledge and their tether, then fastfalling. This move stays out for a long time which is why it is going to be you optimal choice here. Its also nice to know that a weak Bair can do a weak stage spike and sometimes can place you both perfectly for a foot stool to make recovery literally impossible for the tether recovery characters.

Living on the Edge: Ledge options, recovery strategies, when cornered and gimping.

Ledge Options
Basics:

Roll
Jump
Stand
Ledge Attack

Stalling:

Release/Regrab
WoI
Planking

Ledge Hop/Release (Defensive):

Air Dodge
Arrow
Mirror Shield?

Ledge Hop/Release Offensive:

Fair
Bair
Uair
Angel Rings
Retreating Bair>Fair>Fair (My personal favorite)

Recovery Strategies:

Gliding: Returning to stage high to avoid the edge and edge guarding.
WoI: Alternative to gliding, but not very safe or smart.
Arrow Stun: DI back toward stage. Arrow>Jump>Arrow>Jump>Fair
Under Stage: Flying below stages to prevent gimping in WoI if its forced.
Under Stage "Fake Out": Act like your going to fly to the other side then turn around mid flight to trick opponents.
Recovering Low: Falling below the stage can deter gimping from characters with poor off stage options.

Cornered at the Edge:

Defensive
Arrow
Roll
Hop on ledge
Nair>Utilt

Gimping:

Spiking with Dtilt
* Spikable Characters on the ledge - List Characters that can be spiked with Pits down tilt at the edge of the stage.
Mirror Shield: Attacks & Recovery Moves
*A Guide to Pit's Mirror Shield - I Reject
-Reflectable Recoveries

Bowser: Up Special
Captain Falcon:Side Special (Attack portion, be above to not get hit in the head.
Diddy Kong:Side special (kick), Up Special
Donkey Kong: Up Special
Falco: Side Special (end), Up Special
Fox: Side Special (end), Up Special
G&W: Up Special (only if sweet spotting ledge, if not useless)
Ganondorf: Up Special (End, purple attack)
Ice Climbers: Side Special, Up Special
Ike: Side Special, Up Special
Jiggly Puff: Side Special (if used to recover)
King Dedede: None
Kirby: Up Special
Link: Up Special
Lucario: None
Lucas: Up Special (PK Thunder 1 and 2)
Luigi: Up Special, Side Special, Down Special (not really helpful)
Mario: Up Special
Marth: Up Special, Side Special, Neutral Special
Meta Knight: Up Special, Glide Attack, Side Special, Neutral Special
Ness: Up Special (PK Thunder 1 and 2)
Olimar: None
Peach: Up Special (Only if sweet spot ledge attempt)
Pikachu: Side Special
Pit: Glide Attack
Pokemon Trainer:
-Charizard: Glide Attack, Up Special
-Squirtle: Up Special, Side Special
-Ivysaur: None
ROB: None
Samus: Up Special
Sheik: Up Special (reappear)
Sonic: Spin Dash Recovery
Toon Link: Up Special
Wario: Up Special (only with horizontal movement)
Wolf: Side Special (end), Up Special
Yoshi: None (Unless he aerials during his jump)
Zelda: Up Special (Reappear)
ZSS: Down Special (kick)
Wing Refresh/Renewal: Use a Wing Refresh to chase off stage for added chase speed and range, fair most common canceling of WoI.
Wall Of Pain: Fair or Bair(weak)
Arrows: Using arrows to prevent people from gaining recovery momentum.
Character Specifics:
-Ness & Lucas: Arrow can cancel PK Thunder(Bolt)
-Sonic & Snake: Can be grabbed out of their Up Special, not pummeled, and then released. This leaves them unable to jump or use their up special again unless damaged. Snake can attempt to blow himself up with C4.
-Snake: C4 recovery, WoI can be used to nudge snake too far from his C4. WoI can also be used to Cancel all of Snakes vertical momentum in his C4 recovery. Foot stooling his C4 recovery.
-Olimar, ZSS, & Ivysaur: Simple edge hog can kill tether recoveries reliant characters. Though beware their ability to easily kill you if they hit you while you dont have invincibility frames.

4: Guides:

The Power Of Flight A Pit Guide by Negi

Techniques:

Arrow Controlling: After an arrow is fired, you can influence where its headed using your directional stick. Arrows also have no expiration time, so as long as you keep them around they will never end. However, only 4 arrows may be on the screen at the same time. Anymore and the first one shot will go out. If possible, never fire a straight arrow at someone with a reflector, if its angled, you wont have to worry about it coming back at you.

Arrow Stuns: The arrow animation has short ending lag for the most part. It can be used to stun people just long enough to get off some attacks. Arrow to grab or smashing. Can be used as an approach as well.

Arrow Stall: Also known as the "Arrow Dance." All that it really does is increase the length of time you can hold your arrow for, doesn't increase damage past max though. Though it may confuse your opponent. All you need to do is change the direction you're facing. Left, Right, or Up.

Arrow Counter: When knocked away horizontally, and your opponent tends to chase after you. A good way to prevent a ground chase is to fire an arrow as soon as possible, it will not only stop the pursers but it will stabilize you and prevent you from stumbling on the ground. It works at pretty well, better then someone would normally think.

Arrow Loop: A basic arrow tech. Basically all you have to do is rotate the control stick slowly to match the movements of the arrow. The timing takes some getting use to, but it can add a little confusion to your matches. Its hard to explain to how adjust the distance it travels so just make a large stage and try it out. This has many variations and many uses.

Arrow Chase: Arrow looping that goes right through you and into your opponent. Thus stunning them while you're free to hit them with whatever you want.

Arrow Swarm: Looping multiple arrows at once. A somewhat useful tech if you find yourself with extra time. Loop and shoot at the correct time.

Arrow Layering: A more advance arrow swarm. Looping arrows while giving each arrow a short charge. After you finish half of the loop release the directional stick and then pull out the arrow, then finish the loop firing at the correct time. Very hard to perform correctly, due to the odd loop shape you must create. Either an oval or rounded triangle.

Arrow Rain: A more complex arrow tech. Done by firing multiple arrow straight up into the air in quick succession. Then doing a half loop to make it come straight down. Hardly useful in battle in my eyes, but there are a few players that manage to make use of it.

Double Arrow: Looping 2 arrows in opposite directions that turns into a short form of arrow rain. Loop the first one facing the opponent and as soon as its going straight up turn your back to them and loop one into them. If done correctly, the first arrow should hit them and if you don't move the second arrow should follow the same path. Knowing that, you should be able to control it and adjust its path into where your opponent is running to.

8 Hit Arrow Combo: Using arrow rain along with a normal arrow shot, you can do up to an 8 hit combo. To do this basically perform a rain to come down straight onto your opponent. After the first arrow hits, then unload arrows into them. 4 arrows coming from above 4 from in front is 8 arrow combo max. Be careful not to alter your rain with any movement.

Wing Properties: A few special properties of Pits wings that not everyone may know. Pits wings will fatigue if used too quickly in succession. Pits WoI has an semi invincibility frame in the start up, can cancel attacks and block projectiles. The WoI start up has a wind effect that can set off counters and what not, but also push people and items away.

Wing Canceling: The easiest trick to learn with pits wings. Its a small mind game that may help you during a fight. In a close quarters fight simply up special to pull out your wings, and when you reach the top of the initial burst fast fall from a dair, fair, or bair. This can catch your opponents off guard and score you a few free hits. Be aware that this move is risky and it takes away all of your recovery options.

Wing Dash: Similar to wing canceling, and also a mind gamey move, mostly for defensive purposes. To perform jump, and go immediately into WoI. At this point you can move forward or backwards quickly followed by an aerial to cancel your move. However, if you are too low to the ground you wont be able to attack, though if your too high, you will get landing lag from your attack. This takes a getting use to, especially online.

Wing Shove: Similar to wing dashing. However, its purely defensive. Pit's WoI come with a wind pushing effect, so it can be used to push people away from you. In special cases like snake, it can be used to push away his grenades from you. To perform it, is just like wing dashing, however you don't have to move anywhere.

Wing Stalling: Basically its just using WoI in the air. However, due to the properties of the slight stall it causes in your descent, it can be used as mind games. They will think you will fall sooner, but by using a wings stall, then canceling them and fast falling into them with fair, or something.

Wing Pivot: When done with your Cstick set to smash or attack. All you have to do is point directional stick in the direction you want to be facing and the cstick in the way u want to attack. Use this while in WoI and you can choose what attack to use on them instead of being forced to use fair. It can also be done without th use of the Cstick, but really why not use it.

Wing Lunge: By using the fair or bair during the beginning of WoI, there will be a small lunge forward or backwards when you attack. It can be sorta useful to surprise your opponents.

Wing Refresh: A move that gives pits all his jumps back and his wings, and can theoretically keep pit in the air forever. When in WoI, graze pits feet across the ground. When he does that it gives all your recovery options back. Then you can chase your opponents down with a full recovery.

Dive Bomb: Taking advantage of the WoI’s mobility. You can increase the speed at which Pit descends. It’s actually quite fast and can fool opponent. This is a helpful way to get back to the ground if they don’t expect it. However, it is also a very risky move.

Mirror Shield Properties: The mirror shield has a few uses. The most obvious being reflecting projectiles. However, it has a few hidden properties. The mirror shield start up has a few frames of super armor, and it also has physical attack reflector as well. Other interesting note is that pits shield can be tilted up as well to protect his head.

Mirror Shield Edge Guard: Since it can reflect attacks, its the perfect edge guard. But it must be timed correctly during the "shing" sound. Easiest to practice against would be vs Ike, both his recoveries can be reflected.

Mirror Shield Fun: Pits mirror shield can protect him from some hazards provided by the stage. One most notable is Norfair's lave that comes from the side of the stage. If Pit jumps in with his mirror shield pulled out, he is capable of hiding in the lava, and not taking damage, until he is pushed out or the mirror shield times out. Another special note, Pit's mirror shield can block most of Samus' Final Smash and only take the last hit of the damage. Though it requires you to tilt the shield up to protect your head.

Angel Rings Properties: Pits last special move. This move is seen as very noobish, with alot of people spamming it for very little damage, sometimes almost useless damage. It has very little start up lag and a long duration with a long ending lag. It also has a few interesting properties, it lunges pit forward during the start, and the rings has an air push when it ends. I guess to theoretically protect you as angel rings finish. However, for the most part if u start angel rings in the air, u wont get and lunge when u hit the ground.

ARTS: Also known as the angel rings technique, which was thought to be the only real technique with the angel rings. Basically what it does is allow you to get a lunge from the angel rings when began in the air. Which can lead to an extra 10% damage from the rings. There are a bunch of theories about this tech and its very hard to perform consistently. The theory I'm most fond of is to perform the AR when your in 2/3 or 3/4 of your jump on the way up. It doesn't matter what height you start from or the size of your jump. For any aerial jumps, it is when your vertical momentum is 0.

Angel Rings Landing: This move is similar thinking to ARTS but less useful so to speak. Though it does have its uses. Basically just start AR right before you hit the ground, and you will still get a forward lunge. In theory it trades stationary landing lag for AR ending lag. It can be used to dodge attacks you know you wont be able to dodge or shield, and it can be used to chase opponents during a combo.

Angel Ring Aerial Combo: This is basically the idea to land AR from the air with no landing lag and no move end lag. However, it does not provide any lunge. But as I discovered for myself, even though most pits don’t agree with me, it has some insane combo potential. What you have to do is make sure you start AR with enough time for it to end as soon as you hit the ground. If your opponent is caught in the attack as you both go down to the ground, you will land just before they do with no landing lag or anything, and they will have hit lag and or landing lag. Giving you a good time to hit them again.

Gliding: Unique to 3 characters of the cast. By holding down the jump after using at least 1 aerial jump puts pit into gliding mode. There is a slight pause before you start moving so be aware. Pit also has the fastest gliding. Pressing up and down allows you to move up and down. Be careful about gliding on the last aerial jump, it will put you into a free fall after the glide finishes.

Glide Attack: Basically just attacking while in the air makes pit glide attack, which is really quite strong and I find to be one of his top killing moves.

Glide Attack Slide: When using the glide attack near the ground makes pit slide fairly far, and has no lag time. So it allows pit to glide attack and go straight into a sliding attack of his choice. Fsmash, Ftilt, Infinite jab, ect. All good.

Glide Canceling: Easy to perform by jumping or pressing B. Really helpful, makes your opponent have to guess if your going to glide attack, or glide cancel and then attack afterward. Either way a solid mind game strategy.

Glide Shift: A glide technique unique to pit, to an extent. The other characters can perform it but it doesn't have any use in Charizard or Meta's hands. To perform do a fast fall after you finish the jump, but before you start to glide. Useful mind game. Combine glide attack, cancel, and shifting for a solid mind game situation.

Spot Dodge and Sliding: Pit has many ways to slide around to slide around the field. Some are easier and some are harder to perform. They provide an increase of range for Pits attacks which is nice against pretty much anyone.

Starting the Angelic Step: There are many ways to start the Angelic Step. Most commonly known way is to spot dodge hold back then as you finish the spot dodge press forward. It will cause a pit sized side forward. Crouching is another way start it with the same direction movements. I can be done from the air as well but it’s a bit more complex. I’m not sure if you have to attack but it seems to work.

Angelic Dance: After doing an Angelic Step, press back again and forward. It takes some time to get use to it. But it is possible to keep sliding forward until you run out of ground. Once again there are a few uses but at most it should only be used for mind games and such.

Sliding Attacks: There are other ways to slide around that don’t require the Angelic Step, and it is a lot simpler. All that is required to perform a sliding attack is to tilt the direction stick as far as you can without starting Pits dashing animation. At that point simply attack and you will slide. The sliding F-smash is one of the best of Pit’s kill moves, at least IMO. It requires the use of the C-stick to perform the smashes. But it also allows Pit to slide backwards as well.

Dash Pivot Cancel: This is another complex move to slide. To all effect it is about the same as a backwards sliding attack that is harder to perform. To do it, you have to dash and turn around. During the pivot animation there is a window of time where you can use or C-stick to perform any of Pit’s
smashes.

Hidden Spike: A few people may not know this yet but Pit's Dtilt has a hidden spike, probably the hardest spike in the game to pull off. It requires your opponent to be touching Pit's body while he swings, either their head or their feet will do. But if it hits, they are probably dead at any percent.

Approaches: Based on my experiences, Pit has a few good approaches.
1. Basic arrow stun approach. A short hop jump toward the opponent while taking a quick shot at them with an arrow.
2. Nair approach. Short hop in front of them immediately going into an Nair that lands either way behind them in case they shield the whole thing and have a good and cheap Dsmash that can you before you can shield, or right on top of them going into a Utilt, when they spot dodge it or have no devastating attacks that they can counter with from behind.
3. Dair Approach. Short hop into a Dair. Has a wide arc that can hit people and knocks people up which is where you want them to be. If they shield or spot dodge or something you can still get away with a mid air jump.
4. Killing approach. Doing something like jumping at them and doing a fake out fair as you retreat from a single short hop jump and as soon as you land perform a sliding Forward or backward sliding Fsmash. Fsmash slides without any dashing or high tech moves required so most people won't see it coming. Slide backwards when you predict a roll behind you. There's a good chance you will slide far back enough for most characters rolls that at least the second hit will land, the killing one.

Combos:

Chain Grabs: Pit has a semi chain grab. His Fthrow can be chained on a few characters. Easiest on the heavier ones but in reality nothing is perfect. Just Fthrow chase and grab and fthrow repeat. Most possible is probably about 4. Its good to end with an attack before it goes south and they get away.

Grab Release: While Pit doesn’t have a perfect grab release combo. He has a one that sorta works with a combo. Basically Grab>Pummel>Release>Jab>Jab>Grab. Ideally the second jab pulls your opponent toward you. Note it doesn’t work on everyone. And sometimes one jab to a quick dash grab may work better. Also note its not 100% reliable.

Dthrow/Uthrow: Depending on percent. I could be followed up with a Utilt, or Uair. However, eventually they will start to learn to get away from this basic combo. After that improvise. Same can be said about a Dtilt/Utilt starter instead.

Infinite Jab Combo: From an infinite jab, a few attacks can be used. Most popular would be that of the side special or Angel Ring. However, there are a number of possible attacks to use. One I enjoy using is the Fsmash. This works best if they keep DIing to you, waiting out the attack in hops that you will stop and they get to smack you. But what they don’t know is that Fsmash comes out almost instantly after the infinite jab if you time it correctly. Dtilt is also an option.

Jab Cancel: Pit’s jab cancel is pretty good I suppose. However, I cant find too much use for it. Mostly just jab cancel into a grab or Dtilt, Dsmash, or Fsmash. Most of pits other moves aren’t quick enough to be of use.

Arrow Stun Uses: From a combo perspective. Arrow stun is quite nice. It can help you prolong your combos, or add on an extra 5%ish damage.

Arrow Loop>Angel Rings: A comboing tech that was theorized by Admiral Pit, if I remember correctly. Anyway it combines an arrow loop and angel rings. The theory behind it is to loop and arrow away from your opponent then angel rings into them, finally hitting them with the arrow to keep them in the rings longer.

Rising Combo: Random name, yeah I know. Lol. Anyway, I performed this once completely out of instinct. I’m not sure how well it works but basically it’s a Glide Shift(Just barley above ground)>Glide Attack>Sliding Jab>Usmash.

Spike Combo: An interesting combo I’ve seen on a combo video that looks pretty solid. I haven’t tried it yet and I have no idea how reliable it is or the timing of it. It’s important for your opponent to be at a low%, to be somewhat close to the edge when u start it. Start off with an Fthrow, its important that they fly beyond the stage, but close enough so that your Dash Attack connects, and after the dash attack go for a Dtilt. If it works out correctly, they should be spiked, and with pit any spike is probably an instant death. Fthrow>Dash Attack>Dtilt.

Spike Combo 2: Based purely on spikes from other characters, but idk if its possible but its always fun to try. When an opponent is off stage similar to after the Fthrow in spike combo above, and you are standing at the edge. Some form of jab cancel into a spike should work in theory.

Guide For an ADVANCED Pit - By kupo15

Pit's follow-up List - Rogue Pit

KirbyKid's Pit Help Thread- By KirbyKid

The Three-Phase Pit - By Doctor X

Pit Strategy & Application Guide V2.9 - By Rhyfelwyr

The Light Bow: a Guide to Pit's Arrows v 1.1 - By GamerGuitarist7

A Guide to Pit's Mirror Shield - By NxC

Ping Shots Guide - By Icystrider

Revolutionizing Wing Play - By Sagemoon

5: Pit Advanced Techniques

Videos Montage:
Wings of Revealing Light- Using wingstool and WoI techs.
UndrWorld Part 1- This is just a brief demonstration of what Pit can do. Nothing overly fancy or in depth
UndrWorld Part 2-
UndrWorld Part 3-
UndrWorld Part 4-

***Disclaimer Thread***

FYI Pits: Learn these AT's!! Please read

***Disclaimer statement***

While these ATs are important towards advancing your game, you should be familiar with Pit's basics first before attempting to incorporate these ATs into your gameplay.

* Arrow Looping

* Infinite Jump (Wing Refresh/Renewal)

* Wing Dashing

* Angelic Step, The

* Angel Ring Technique (ART)

* Gliding Techs

* Wing Landing

Pit's Misc Techniques

* Arrow Dancing/Stalling

* Slidestepping

* WoI Tricks

* WoI Facts

6: Links to Informative/Discussion Threads

* On the Approach - Discussion on how its best to approach.

* Palutena's Army: Pit Players Unite - Read up on other Pit play styles and add your own.

* Living on the Edge - A list of Pits ledge, recovery, and gimping options.

* Polymorphic Blades: Pit Frame Data - Pit Frame data, who would have guessed from the title!

* Kowns Thread 2! : A Pit board social thread - The Pit boards social thread.

* Pitisabeastinteams! A Pit Doubles Discussion - A discussion thread about how Pit and the characters he partners with fare in doubles play.

* Official Pit Secondary Thread. - A thread listing and discussing the best secondaries for a Pit main.

* Pit's Fighting Stances - A fun little list of what Pit looks like and how he holds his bow/swords.

* Spikable Characters on the ledge - List Characters that can be spiked with Pits down tilt at the edge of the stage.

* Offical Pit Match Up thread - Created by R@vYn and me this thread has links to all Pits subthreads for each match up you might come accross.

* Counterpicking/Banning with Pit - Go here talk about what stages you like to pick with Pit or what ones you hate.

* Ask a simple question get a simple answer- Post questions in here that doesn't deserve its own thread. This is geared more towards technique and gameplay questions.

* Pit Video Thread - Links to many good Pit vids, combo vids, and other Vids of Pit.

* Pit Chat room -This is our chat room feel free to talk about anything here.

* Become a More Well-Rounded Pit Player - A set of challenges to help break bad habits and discover other areas of your game that needs improvement.

* Pit Moveset Discussion! - A place to discuss each of pits moves and when is a good time to use them.

* The 'How to deal with specific enemy moves' thread. - A great place to find out how to deal with some of the harder moves in the game.

* No Swagger Like Us- aPit Tournament Results - A place to see how several Pit players are doing in the competitive scene.

* Revolutionizing Wing Play: A short guide on how to use WoI more efficiently.

**Please do your part in keeping this forum neat by saving new threads for important discoveries or useful information that has NOT been discussed**

Updates:
6/23 - Negi's face lift on the guide begins
6/24 - Intro, Basic Guide, and colorization complete.
7/12 - Living on the Ledge added, changed thread name
7/13 - Added the Power of Flight guide and link to On the Approach[/collapse]

Katana_koden · Mar 14, 2010

Pit's Frame Data

[collapse=Pit's Frame Data; Click to open]

Polymorphic Blades

Pit Frame Data

This is a more complete guide of Pit's frame data. Unfortunately our previous frame data was never finished.

Reading frame data may be difficult at first, but I will try to make it quite simple.

I will list his data in this format.

Name of skill

Start up- The frames before Pit can hit you.

Hit Box- The frames Pit's attack is out and causes damage.

Cool Down- The frames that pit is vulnerable after his attack.

Hit Lag- The freeze frames during the Hit Box Duration.

Shield Stun- The frames, if shielded, after hit box out, can't react after an attack has connected.

Advantage- Frames I calculated they will be able to punish during cool down.

Shield Drop Advantage- Frames (7) after shield dropped. Remaining frames they will be able to punish during cool down.

Damage- Damage given, quite obvious.

Growth- How much knock back scales with damage.

Knockback- The value of how strong the move is.

Hitboxinfo- I will determine how many and be specific.

IASA- The time you can input a command during an action
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Attacks

Jab 1

Start up: 1- 4
Hit Box: 5 - 6
Cool Down: 7 - 23
Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: 13
Shield Drop Advantage: 6
Damage: 3
Growth: 10
Knockback: 28
Hitboxsinfo: 4
IASA:
- frame 7 for jab 2 if tapped
- frame 15 for jab 2 if held
- frame 19 earliest to finish move

Jab 2

Start up: 1-4
Hit Box: 5-6
Cool Down: 7-25
Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: 14
Shield Drop Advantage: 7
Damage: 3
Growth: 0
Knockback: 28
Hitboxsinfo: 4, closest ones give more directional knockback
IASA:
- frame 8 for jab infinate if rapid tapped
- frame 9 for jab 3 if tapped
- frame 15 for jab 3 if held
- frame 20 earliest to finish move

Jab 3

Start up: 1 -3
Hit Box: 4 - 10
Cool Down: 11 - 35
Hit Lag: 6
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: 21
Shield Drop Advantage: 14
Damage: 5
Growth: 32
Knockback: 46
Hitboxsinfo: 4, all hits same direction
IASA:
- frame 1 for jab infinate to start instead.
- frame 31 earliest to finish move

Jab Infinite

Start up: 1-5
Hit Box:6-7, hits every 2 frames with 1 sec. intervals 11 attacks per rotation (continuous)
Cool Down: 34-45
Hit Lag: 4
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: 9
Shield Drop Advantage: 2
Damage: 1's and 2 on farthest hitbox
Growth: 0, 19, 19, 30 according to closest to farthest hit box from body
Knockback: 64, 82, 82, 64 according to closest to farthest hitbox from body
Hitboxsinfo: 4 hit boxes repeating an up and down wave, farthest hitbox knocks them farthest.
IASA: None

Down Tilt

Start up: 1 - 5
Hit Box: 6 - 8
Cool Down: 9 - 29
Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: 19
Shield Drop Advantage: 12
Damage: 11
Growth: 50
Knockback: 32
Hitboxsinfo: first 2 hits downwards, last 2 hits upwards
IASA: None

Forward Tilt

Start up: 1 - 13
Hit Box: 14 - 16
Cool Down: 17 - 40
Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 2
Advantage: 23
Shield Drop Advantage: 13
Damage: 12
Growth: 12
Knockback: 95
Hitboxsinfo: 4, all hits same direction
IASA: frame 39

Up Tilt

1

2

3

Start up: 1
Hit Box: 2, 8 - 10, 15 - 18
Cool Down: 19 - 35
Hit Lag: 0, 7, 7
Shield Stun: 0, 0, -1*
Advantage: 16
Shield Drop Advantage: 9
Damage: 3, 6 ,7
Growth: 0, 0 , 60
Knockback: -
Hitboxsinfo: -
IASA: None
* apparently you can react during the final hit box is out

Dash Attack

Start up: 1 - 6
Hit Box: 7 - 9
Cool Down: 10 - 45
Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4
Advantage: 32
Shield Drop Advantage: 20
Damage: 9, 12, 11, 11 from closest hitbox to farthest
Growth: 14
Knockback: 64
Hitboxsinfo:-
IASA: frame 41

Smashes

Forward Smash

1

2

Start up: 1 - 5
Hit Box: 6 - 8, 18 - 20
Cool Down: 21 - 47
Hit Lag: 7, 9
Shield Stun: 0, 2
Advantage: 27
Shield Drop Advantage: 17

Charged- First hit on 5

Down Smash

1

2

Start up: 1 - 4
Hit Box: 5 - 6, 18 - 20
Cool Down: 21 - 40
Hit Lag: 10, 8
Shield Stun: 3, 1
Advantage: 20
Shield Drop Advantage: 24, 12

Charged- First hit on 4

Up Smash

1

2

3

Start up: 1 - 5
Hit Box: 6, 11, 18
Cool Down: 19 - 46
Hit Lag: 6, 5, 8
Shield Stun: 1, 1, 2
Advantage: 28
Shield Drop Advantage: 18

Charged- First hit on 4

Aerials

Down Aerial

1

2

Start up: 1 - 9
Hit Box: 10 - 12
Cool Down: 13 - 36
Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4
Auto cancel IASA:
- IASA 6 frames before hitboxes out
- IASA on 36 from auto cancel.
- First Aerial Frame on 37.
Landing Lag: 30

Forward Aerial

Start up: 1 - 11
Hit Box: 12 - 15
Cool Down: 16 - 38
Hit Lag: 10
Shield Stun: 1
Auto cancel IASA: 28
Landing Lag: 15

Neutral Aerial

multi hits

Final hit

Start up: 1 - 3
Hit Box: 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, 22, 25
Cool Down: 26- 51
Hit Lag: 5 per hit 6 on last hit box
Shield Stun: 1
Auto cancel IASA:
- IASA 3 frames before hitboxes out
- IASA on 30 from auto cancel.
Landing Lag: 30

Back Aerial

Start up: 1 -8
Hit Box: 9 - 25
Cool Down: 26 - 39
Hit Lag: 7 , 10 on Sweet Spot
Shield Stun: 2, 6 on Sweet Spot
Auto cancel IASA: 28
Sweet spot: 9 - 10
Landing Lag: 15

Up Aerial

Start up: 1 - 8
Hit Box: 9-10, 12-13, 15-16, 18-19, 21-22, 24-25
Cool Down: 26 - 44
Hit Lag: 5
Shield Stun: 0
Auto cancel IASA:
- IASA 4 frames before hitboxes out
- IASA on 37 from auto cancel.
Landing Lag: 30

Glide Attack

1

2

Start up: 1 - 5
Hit Box: 6 - 11
Cool Down: 12 - 34
Hit Lag: 9
Shield Stun: 4

Grabs

Standing Grab

Start up: 1 - 5
Hit Box: 6 - 7
Cool Down: 8 - 29
Advantage: 22

Dash Grab

Start up: 1 - 9
Hit Box: 10 - 11
Cool Down: 12 - 39
Advantage: 28

Pivot Grab

Start up: 1 - 8
Hit Box: 9 - 10
Cool Down: 11 - 35
Advantage: 25

Specials

Palutena's Arrow

Start up: 1 - 19
Hit Box: 20 - Infinite
Cool Down: 21 - 43
Hit Lag: 6 - 9 Charge Dependent
Shield Stun: 1
Advantage: 23
Shield Drop Advantage: [14] - (hit lag(7 through 9) - ( distance)

6 frames to hit if arrow is charged
7 frames per direction changed while charging
Travel 19 frames across Battle Field
Travels 22 frames across Final Destination

Angel Ring

Start up: 1 - 11
Hit Box: 12 - 13* 15 - 16, etc etc , 39 - 40 (continuous)
Cool Down: 41 - 63
Hit Lag: 5
Shield Stun: 0
Advantage: 23
Shield Drop Advantage: 15

Wind Box starts hits on 41
ART cancels on frame ??
* Hits on frame 12 but damages on 13.

Mirror Shield

Start up: 1 - 3
Super Armor: 4 - 5 (ground only)
Reflects: 6 - 25
Reflect Physical Attacks: 6 - 17
Cool Down: 26 - 39
Advantage: 14
Shield Drop Advantage Lol: 6

Wing of Icarus

Invincibility: 1 - 4 - (5) body can be hit but technically invincible. (ground only)
Wind Box: 5 only
Duration: 195
Ground WoI: 29 Before Canceling
Aerial WoI: 17 Before Canceling
Fatigued Land: 40

A Wing Dash is actually only 27 frames.
Start up: Jump 1 - 6
WoI: 7- 24
Cancel WoI: 25 - 27

Recovery

Slip

Standing slip (walking into banana)
Invincible: 1-6
Cool Down: 7- 21

Turning slip (like a pivot slip)
Invincible: 1-7
Cool Down: 8- 25

Dash Slip (Initiating a dash)
Invincible: 1-8
Cool Down: 9- 38

After the animation is done for slipping you can initiate a recovery action

Attack
Start up: 1 - 18
Hit Box: 19 -20, 30 - 31
Cool Down: 32 - 51
Invincibility: 1 - 8

Slip Stand
Duration: 29
Invincibility: 1 - 17

Slip Roll Forward
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 1 - 10

Slip Roll Back
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 1 - 10

In summary, the same as our normal recovery but with less invincibility. Attack recover starts 2 frames slower.

Ledge under 100%

Attack
Start up: 1 - 23
Hit Box: 24 - 28
Cool Down: 29 - 55
Hit Lag: 9
Invincibility: 1 - 23
Advantage: 26

Jump
Duration: 16
Invincibility: 1 - 15

Stand
Duration: 34
Invincibility: 1 - 26

Roll
Duration: 49
Invincibility: 1 - 27

100% and over

Attack
Start up: 1 - 37
Hit Box: 38 - 42
Cool Down: 43 - 69
Hit Lag: 8
Invincibility: 1 - 37
Advantage: 26

Your body isn't in a normal state till after you attack finished unlike the attack if under 100%, your body isn't normal till after invincibility

Jump
Duration: 19
Invincibility: 1 - 22

Stand
Duration: 59
Invincibility: 1 - 55

Roll
Duration: 79
Invincibility: 1 - 50

Floor Recovery

Attack
Start up: 1 - 15
Hit Box: 16 -18, 23 - 25
Cool Down: 26 - 49
Invincibility: 1 - 28
Advantage: 22

Stand
Duration: 29
Invincibility: 1 - 22

Roll Forward
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 1 - 20

Roll Back
Duration: 35
Invincibility: 1 - 25

Evasion

Shield is on Frame 1

Side Step/ Spot Dodge
Duration: 25
Invincibility: 2 - 20

Back Roll
Duration: 32
Invincibility: 4 - 17

Forward Roll
Duration: 27
Invincibility: 4 - 17

Aerial Dodge
Duration: 39
Invincibility: 4 - 29

Taunts

Up Taunt: 90

Side Taunt: 135
IASA: on 119

Down Taunt: 120
IASA: on 109

Miscellaneous

Jump start: 5 +(1) dead frame if not a buffered aerial.
Soft Land: 2
Hard Land: 5
Short Hop: 40 Fast falls on 24 or frame perfect is 23
Short Hop Fast Fall: 30 or frame perfect is 29
Full Hop: 60 Fast Falls on 33
Full Hop Fast Fall: 45
Glide FAIL: Slides 1 - 29

[collapse=Ledge Information]
Ledge
Invincibility Frames: 46
Ledge Grab Lag Frames: 24
Ledge Drop Frame: 26

Thanks for reading. It is not completely finished, but I am motivated to finish it.

If I missed anything, please Let me know.[/collapse][/collapse]

Maharba the Mystic · Nov 14, 2010

[collapse=Pit's Chaingrab Ratios; click to open]Pit Chaingrab Ratio

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
COMPLETE!!!!!!!

All of these were tested by myself and my partners Blaze and Green. Also Dskank contributed to the follow ups and throws.

The following percents/combos are proven true with methods of video frame testing and actual gameplay application. If for some reason in the future one of these is found false it will be changed only after proof is shown.
COMING SOON MORE FOLLOW UPS. HOWEVER THE ACTUAL CHAINGRABBING PART IS COMPLETED

WHY/HOW THE DACG works the way it does:
the button imput that goes to the wii when you grab with Z is sheild>attack. which is why the only movement you can get with a sheild grab is based on your traction. however if you enter attack then sheild wat you are doing is keeping the momentum of the initial movement that you made before you cancelled said attack with sheild and keeping that momentum when grab comes out. when you DACG you are cancelling a dash attack by imputing sheild immediately afterwords so you are keeping both the boost of the dash and the dash attack so that you arejust that much farther forwards.

here is the uncomplete video of all the chaingrabs starting with DK and CF.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guBEY9viYhQ

this thread and the work to obtain its contents is credited to:

Maharba The Mystic (starter of thread)
DSkank
Blaze
Green
Pulse131
Luckay4Lyphe (found out we can grab>jab dk, snake, and samus at 0%. best used if near the edge to set up an early gimp.)

Legend:
w=walk
g=grab
f=forward throw
r=run
ss=stutter step
DAC=dash attack cancel
DACG=dash attack cancel grab (performed: dash>down c-stick>sheild. you cannot use z to do it)
Characters Tested Thus Far (all starting at zero percent):

Chaingrabs and Follow Ups
------------------------------
(note we can fthrow>dash attack anyone we can cg for most of the early percents ranges. however if done to early you can be nair'd by most chars)

Bowser
f-throw>wg>47%+regrab
f-throw>DACG>58%+regrab
fthrow>ss fsmash

Captain falcon
f-throw>DACG>41%+regrab

Charizard
f-throw>ss fsmash

DDD:
f-throw>DACG or rg> 47%+regrab must slowly extend dash after each grab
fthrow>ss fsmash up till about 30%

Diddy
fthrow>ss fsmash

Donkey Kong
f-throw>jab>jab third hit or infinite
f-throw>wg>wg>wg>wg=34%
f-throw>wg>rg>DACG till finish at 62%
f-throw>wg>rg>wg>rg> at 41%
f-throw>wg>wg>DACG 62%
best follow up at the edge is dash attack or another f-throw>eat jumps with arrows>mirror the DK.

Falco
fthrow>fthrow>fthrow>dash attack
fthrow>ss fsmash up to 15%
fthrow>fthrow> ss or walking fsmash
fthrow>dtilt

Fox
f-throw>wg>10%+regrab
f-throw>DACG>34%+regrab
fthrow>dtilt

Game and Watch
f-throw>ss fsmash

Ganon
f-throw>wg>19%+regrab
f-throw>DACG>47%+regrab
fthrow>ss fsmash up till 25%

Ice Climbers
f-throw>ss fsmash
can't finish testing on them w/o a wii.....

Ike
f-throw x2>walking fsmash

Ivysaur
fthrow>sliding usmash

Jiggly Puff
fthrow>sliding usmash

Kirby
nothing out of fthrow

Link
f-throw>ss fsmash
f-throw>19%+regrab

Lucario
fthrow>ss fsmash

Lucas
none out of fthrow
gr> regrab (needs DACG), ss fsmash, walking fsmash, dash attack, walking dsmash (hard to do for strong spot, weak hit is easy tho), dtilt

Luigi
fthrow>19%+regrab
fthrow>ss fsmash

Mario
fthrow>ss fsmash

Marth
fthrow>ss fsmash 0% only

Metaknight
fthrow> ss fsmash
grab release> dash attack
fthrow>ss fsmash

Ness
gr> regrab (doesn't need DACG), ss fsmash, walking fsmash, dash attack, walking dsmash, dtilt

Olimar
none

Peach
fthrow>ss fsmash

Pikachu
none

Pit
fthrow>ss fsmash
f-throw x2>ss fsmash

ROB
fthrow>ss fsmash

Samus
f-throw>jab>jab third hit or infinite
f-throw>walking or ss fsmash
f-throw>DACG 19% + regrab>

Sheik
f-throw>19%+regrab
f-throw>ss fsmash

Snake:
f-throw>jab>jab third hit or infinite
f-throw>rg> 27%.
f-throw>DACG> 41% plus regrab CONFIRMED!
fthrow>fthrow> walking fsmash up to 15%
fthrow>ss fsmash

Sonic
f-throw>ss fsmash

Squirtle
none

Toon Link
fthrow>sliding usmash

Wario
can't be chaingrabbed by f-throw.
can't be stutter smashed.
i hate wario so much.....

Wolf
f-throw>wg>19+regrab
f-throw>DACG>41+regrab
fthrow>ss fsmash up till 20%
fthrow>dtilt

Yoshi
f-throw>ss fsmash

Zelda
none

Zero Suit Samus
don't mess with zero if you f-throw. her u-tilt jacks up anything you could ever think of trying out of it.

on most characters grounded grab release into d-smash can be sheilded sometimes but this works at any percent and is great for the suprise kill since it hits on frame 5 so buffer that shiz.

I Maharba The Mystic take credit for the discovery of the walking regrab x2 to DAC Grab chain-grab on Donkey Kong (and other walking regrab>DACG chaingrabs on more than just DK) that allows for the 0-62% percent chaingrab on Donkey Kong. credit for the final percents with the wg on the other characters (like bowser) does not matter to much because DK is what started this thread. but i claim them 2 lol.[/collapse]

Kuro~ · Jan 25, 2011

Match Up Thread

[COLLAPSE="MATCHUP THREAD"]PIT MATCHUP THREAD

Okay so i will be the new master of the mu. You can find the old thread here---> http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=197115

This WILL be finished.

For new pits i highly suggest the following readings~
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610 this is EXTREMELY helpful for new pits. Helped me conceptually alot when i first started pit.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=190383 this is one of my all time favorite reads for pit. As it improved my game in many areas through a chainreaction and helped me in mu's.

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1:

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________________

each character will be added and the summary under the picture. The links to each discussion will be here--->

Marth

Dedede

Zero Suit Samus

Olimar

Lucario

Pikachu

Wolf

Wario

Peach

FINISHED Matchups

+0 for Pit

To start this off lets list each character advantages over each other.

Pit:
1. Chaingrab at the beginning can easily lead to 40%-50% lead right off the bat.
2. even though neither really “outcamps” each other, Pit’s arrows **** fox off stage.
3. Pit overall out ranges fox.
4. Pit is pretty much the only one who will be getting gimps in this MU due to his vastly superior recovery.
5. Jab and AR wreck shop near the edge and on stage when used right.
6. Planking>fox

Fox:
1. DJC (double jab cancel), Dair, and Nair all lead into true combos for damage and kills.
2. Fox kills us way earlier with his oh so reliable usmash.
3. he is faster than us and his reflector stops camping to a certain extent.
4. He can gimp us on stages like YI and PK Stadiums (where we can’t go around).

Overall while this is a pretty even MU there are a few things which allow pit to generally win this match up both on and off stage.

ON Stage:
Since everyone knows the ramifications that CGs have in any match lets just focus on normal gameplay. On stage your jab and your dtilt are going to be your best friends as you will be using them a lot. These keep fox away from you while constantly allowing you to reset spacing. Also sh nair and just using fair in general is pretty effective as a mix up. Fox will most likely try to grab a lot so always watch out for that. Also juggling with uair, usmash, utilt, and throws are pretty effective here however you must not get hit by his dair or you will eat a lot of damage from any of the things it combos into. In the air while our aerials over all outranges his none of his aerials are to be under estimated. Obviously nair and dair combo and such, his uair and bair are effective kill moves, and his fair can damage AND kill if used properly. However our nair eats his moves for breakfast. Also fair is a great spacer and bair can used to get kills and gimps if he is offstage.

OFF STAGE

A fox off stage is a dead fox when playing pit. While he can shine stall to help deal with arrows, the fact is when he uses a jump or recovery move our arrows shut him down. Also AR both when held in the line of his phantasm stops him and his recovery in his tracks. Mirror shield reflects fire fox. If he is recovering from below a fast falled bair will gimp or stage spike almost every time (unless they are a god of teching).

MISC.:

• A lot of foxes abuse their dair and can become predictable. Shield Grab>fox’s dair.
• While he has a reflector, do not count arrows out completely.
• Fox’s shine shenanigans can allow him to gimp your WOI if you are not care as without something to stop his recovery he can recover from just about anywhere with fox copter and fire fox.

in the end this is not a terribly advanced match up and as such does not require as big a summary as some of the others.

48:52 Marths favor. Can also be 45:55 but all that matters is that marth does have an advantage. A -1 For pit

Stages to aim for:
FD
Smashville
Strike YI
BF/LYlat depending on your personal preference.

CPs:
Halberd
Delphino
FD
Pictochat
Rainbow Cruise
Frigate( the abover are 9/10 times better however)

Things to look out for:
He can UpB Out of our jab canceling combos(eg jab grab or jab jab grab or jab dtilt etc etc.) so if u think hes gonna do that Shield to PS it and then punish.
Stutter step fsmash. Seriously...be careful.
Shield breaker

Summary:
In this mu you really need to make marth work hard to get in. Arrows, arrows, and more arrows. Along with mixups like sh nair,fair,and dtilt.
Marth has amazing range on his sword. If he gets in close try to reset the situation asap in any way u can. One of the best ways to get him off your jock is the simple 1,2,3 jab combo(not infinite). He has frame traps with dtilt, DB, jab possibly so just watch out and know what u can punish. This mu is somewhat similar to MK mu in that you NEED to KNOW your options/punishes at ALL times. We can really camp marth hardcore with planking and arrows. YES u can plank marth u just need to pay attention to their movement so u know whether or not they are going for a tipper smash. Speaking of, like most of the cast marth has fthrow tipper smash on us at 0% just in case u didnt know. The thing we have that makes this mu as close as it is, is our ability to exploit marth's greatest weakness. Pressure from below is how we will handle marth for the majority. If you get a jab you should get a grab. If he wiffs go for a grab. My personal tried and true favorite is uthrow because while dthrow works as well uthrow sends them up higher creating more opportunities for juggling and dealing more damage in just the grab alone. This may seem like a daunting task with marths sword range and our flimsy standing grab range but just force him to approach with arrows, sh nairs and dtilt and the likes and you will cause mistakes. I cant stress enough how you must abuse arrows wisely as they create openings in what could be an otherwise flawless marth's gameplay. After the uthrow it's best to jump towards his di direction while pulling out an arrow this way you follow his movement while pressuring from below. After the arrow continue to either arrow pressure or go for the uair as its highly unlikely the marth will dair. Even if he does that thing lags so much u can simply dair him back or go and grab him again. If you predict an airdodge fastfall utilt(FRAME 2 BABY!!!!) or dair or bair if at kill %. I've gotten alot of kills off a forced airdodge to bair. It works wonders. Now, i have to say something. Most pit's advocate pits roll, however, marth's are always on the look out for rolls just like snakes. And with marth's dancing blade he has the means to punish many of the rolls. So that being said, if you want to reset your position, either roll very smartly( i mean really know what your opponent is going for) or go to the ledge and just go to the other side and play the waiting/planking game. If your shield is low/mid health PLEASE AND I MEAN PLEASE, be careful of two things;Shield breaker and stutterstep or regular fsmash. THESE WILL EITHER BREAK THE SHIELD(former) OR PIERCE IT ( Ladder) I being a marth main as well have gotten so many kills on shield poke tipper stutterstep fsmash. IT IS SOOOOOO GOOD! So know your spacing in comparison to marth at all times. Now as for CP's.

Halberd:Great sharking potential on the first part and it provides a way to avoid marth till the other beneficial(to camping) part. In the first part just plank. PLANK PLANK AND PLANK. Then the second part is long like FD this helps your camping game greatly. ABUSE IT. Hazards can mess up marth or help him pressure us more. Be careful. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD SDI THAT DANG LASER LOL.The low room can lead to early kills by us with hypen usmash, uairs, fairs, bairs, dsmash, or fsmash. This stage helps our killing potential alot. However that being said, you have to be even more wary of two moves. The all priotized dolphin slash and the god forsaken tippers. A great CP nonetheless. One of the top choices to choose from.

Delphino: A more gimmicky version of halberd. It's really down to personal preference between the two. Simply treat this like you would halberd and plank when u can. Sharking is amazing. Just watch that you dont get stuck in the water as that might lead to some very early and unfortunate deaths cause of marth pressuring options once your in it( not to mention his spike).

FD: A very polar stage. Flat, long, high walls. Both characters live longer(pit is heavier though being one of the heavier midweights and will out survive marth for the most part). Pit can camp sooooooo hard here because its flatness and loooong length. If you choose hear know it will be a long campy battle (as it should) and you will come out on top.

Pictochat: a gimmicky FD. The gimmicks can help for kill set-ups with both characters and lead to some nice early kills. Pit benefits from several parts of this stage in camping potential(such as being inside the whale and camping-same goes for the building and mans face) the side spikes can lead to some nice kills as well.

Rainbow: You've seen marth vs mk here yes? its pretty much gonna be what all RC battles turn to. Running and taking advantage of each stage part while u can. I will say beware getting dtilt locked on the boat in the underhang on the right side. Other than that just run away and stay under marth at all times.

Frigate: Can mess up marth recovery and on second part we can camp the middle of the stage well due to the platform being there.

Ban YI/Battlefield as those are marth's two best stages to take us to. PS1 can be dangerous as well. So i'd say ban ps1/YI as BF is much more manageable. Ps2 marth has a real nice stalling gimmick on the air part. It's friggin hilarious but with our arrows he would probably get shot and die from being so high up. Ps2 is actually pretty useful for us. but not worth of a cp by us.

Dedede mu summary +0

Stages to aim for:
Final Destination
Lylat
Strike YI/BF
Smashville is the most normal of all of these for this mu

CPs:
FD
Rainbow Cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
Delfino
Ban Ps1/YI/CS

Things to look out for:
Obviously one thing is his chaingrab. This will be a nice source of dmg for him. Also, for the love of god don’t get hit by the Gordo. You can literally mirror shield it on reaction because of how slow it moves. Utilt actually has invincibility frames and kills earlier than snakes. Pretty stupid huh? His spot dodge is uuber ******** because of its mechanics in relationship with the z-axis of brawl. It can dodge our whole nair. And only has 2 frames your able to punish with certain moves.

Summary:
Surprise surprise, guess what you’ll be doing a bunch of in this mu? CAMPING!!! So grab some marshmallows, turn up your focus, strengthen your resolve, and be ready to test your patience! Again arrows are our best tool in this mu because it forces approach and slows the game down to a pace we prefer. They also rack up damage and strengthen edge guarding ability. Mix in angel rings, SH ART’s, retreating FF fair (unpunishable even by dedede if spaced correctly, amazing right? :D) and full hop dairs. Other good assets for CQC are inf jab and utilt. So the majority of this mu will be spent with you camping and punishing looking for punishes. Once you get those punishes, CAPITALIZE, CAPITALIZE, And CAPITALIZE!!!! D3 is one fat ***** and he won’t die any time soon. So TAKE YOUR TIME. YOU DON’T HAVE TO KILL HIM EARLY AS LONG AS YOU ARENT TAKING AN ABUDNACE OF DAMAGE/DYING YOURSELF. We have a chain grab to around 47% on him as well so if you get a grab at low % go for it. Edge guarding and juggling is all important in this mu. His up-b is extremely susceptible to being edge guarded and if we get him in the air onstage we can juggle him real well. If you start to notice a pattern of him FF air dodging to avoid juggles fake-out a juggle and FF regrab instead. It’ll make him think twice. Planking/scrooging also ***** the crap out of dedede. He has almost no response to it. Just be wary of timeouts if you pass the LGL of ~50. Only use it to stay safe till you ARE safe and to get him off your back some. Pit is one of the hardest characters to CG so if he can’t cg you can ~65% of the time assume he doesn’t know the mu well. Which means he won’t know many of pit’s mixups most likely. However dedede is such a simple character he can win this mu without mu knowledge. Also, you can mirror shield his recovery BUT IT HAS TO BE ON HIS WAY DOWN and proceed to WoI to possibly gimp him. Also you can jab the waddle dees/doos to refresh your moveset. So ya, avoid his cg, camp hard, use CQ and SH mixups, edge guard and juggle is vital and KEEP PATIENT.

FD: A very polar stage which enables us to camp harder but extends D3’s lifespan quite a bit. One of the top choices.

Rainbow cruise: Forces Dedede in the air which is good for us and could give us (and him) early kills. Beware of the wall infinite on the boat part. The only downside to this stage is when it’s moving on the third part after the pendulum it changes the fighting style you can best use. Find what works for you. Also one of the best CPs.

Brinstar: A similar stage to rainbow except it can hinder our camping ability and doesn’t give as good juggling opportunities as RC. A viable choice but not one of the best. D3 is not as bad on this stage as people assume.

Halberd: Definitely a top counter pick. The first part enables amazing scrooging/planking very well and the second part enables camping to the likeness of FD except we can’t go under. We will kill (slightly) earlier here so that is somewhat of a bonus. But so can he and he has more viable kill moves than us so beware. Also, watch out for stage gimmicks.

Delfino: a more planking oriented stage than halberd. Is also much more high-risk, high-reward than halberd due to dedede walk offs.

Ps1: Low ceiling/walls, many opportunities to wall infinite, messes up our camping, can’t go under. Enough said. Bad. Ban it.

YI: another viable cp for dedede as the small stage enables him to close the gap much quicker.

CS: Not a bad cp if he takes you here. Plank the first part, run away on the top left/right platforms on the second part to avoid walk offs, and camp the third part. He’s pretty ignorant if he takes you here.

Zero suit samus mu summary
Pit vs zss is a +0 or 50:50

Stages to aim for:
Final Destination
Lylat Cruise
Smashville
Strike Yoshis Island and Battle field. The difference between BF and SV is player-based. Strike whichever one you like less for the mu.

CPs:
Frigate Orpheon
Rainbow Cruise
Final Destination
Brinstar
Halberd
Delphino

Bans(in order best choice to least effective): PS2, PS1, Castle Siege, Brinstar, Halberd, YI. Player knowledge will help in knowing what to ban.

Things to look out for: Dsmash chain DOES NOT WORK!!!!! On pit. To prevent getting 50+ dmg when dsmashed at 0 HOLD UP TO DI OUT SO YOU CAN JUMP AWAY B4 THE NEXT DSMASH. Pivot grab can be annoying. Don’t die to her down b…please. Side B offstage=early kill so pay attention to her zoning and be ready. Her Dsmash while planking. Don’t ever, ever, ever try to shield grab a dsmash. 99% of the time it won’t reach and you’ll get followed up by a dsmash to dsmash to uair etc. etc.

Summary: First off, two things to talk about. Good reaction time is a god send in this matchup. It makes stuff like dsmash on shield, uair baits, bair baits, power shielding side-b all much easier to punish and/or realize in time. Second, learn how to utilize the pieces. Pit ***** with them sooooo hard when done CORRECTLY. Once he gets a piece it “should” be a stock that’s how amazing he is with them. Stuff like downthrow piece WoI to stop her momentum to bair or footstool to fsmash. He can do hella combos with insta-throwing and his multiple jumps. He can create legitimate walls that she can’t get passed so it makes reads that much easier. Gives him a good OoS option for any situation. A quick approach in Glide Toss. Pit is gonna be using a bunch of arrows, nair, dair, and ftilt in this match. Recongnize how she telegraphs her side-b and dair when she is. Dair’s awkward arcing hitbox can hit her b4 the side b can hit you if done right. Nair allows for a good anti-appraoch move. Your arrowing she’s approaching through, nair(or fh retreating dair). Ftilt’s range(rivaling snakes ftilt if not longer) is aaaaaammmmmmmaaaaaazing in this matchup. She thinks she can zone in on you? Pft ftilt that hoe. When you get her in the air treat her like snake. Juggle her all day. Use arrows to trap her into a bair. Bair kills her super early. Watch out for her uair. That **** is scary and dangerous and a serious threat to pit. Always be ready to hold down so you can PS her jab. Cuz if you don’t it makes this matchup that much harder. If she downsmashes your shield, you have enough time to Nair OoS. That’s your best option cuz it gives you the most leeway. Edge guarding is a must. If she likes to down-b footstool trick onto the stage be ready to upsmash and juggle as she down-b. If she likes to grab the ledge with side b arrows stop that. If she has to use up-b do a quick FF bair towards the stage and your likely to Stage spike her. That being said you won't likely gimp zss on a neutral, but you can edge guard her pretty well. She excels at mid-range so you want to be either in long range, or short range. We have moves to get us out of Mid-range safely such as dair, running, ftilt, nair.

Counterpicks:
Frigate Orpheon: Oh how I love thee, frigate orpheon. This stage is beast mode in this matchup. The first transformation is BEGGING TO GIMP HER. It’s so easy to gimp her at this part. The stage flips can hurt her super bad. The second part, we can camp under the middle platform nicely. The downward slants also give our bair a super awesome hitbox that sweetspots down and out and up. It makes it much easier to land a bair. The BEST cp once you learn it.

Rainbow Cruise: Similar to frigate in that it helps gimps, but her uair potential here and possible early kills for her are what makes this only the second best choice.

Final destination: No platforms to support her juggling you, long flat stage to camp, we are heavier than her and “should” live longer.

Halberd: The low ceiling assits her uair too much. Planking is effective but still a large hassle and large risk vs reward. Do it at your own risk. The second part is no different than FD besides the platform and hazards and low celing. All of which can support her. Which is what gives FD the edge over halberd.

Brinstar: Extended hitboxes, low celings/walls, lava combos, uair deaths. Not the best CP for us. But definitely has perks like super early bair kill and lava+WoI combos.

Delphino: See above statements about planking. Realize that’s what delphino is for. Don’t choose it.

Bans(in order of best to worst):
PS2: Oh my god, oh my god. If you know a zss picks ps2 ban that **** immediately. Yes we have that nice Ice gimmick but it is not enough. She will **** the **** out of you at the wind stage. I mean total, ****ing anal probing. ****’s nasty. She can Sideb through the hill and basically keep us out on that part. Small stage helps her more than us. We can’t fly under. The treadmills help her punish us on the ledge and make her dsmash even more safe on shield. She can do a sliding dsmash on the ice part. Shiet.

PS1: A less dramatic ps2.
Castle Siege: Helps her ability to stay on top of us.
Brinstar: See above posts about uair etc. etc.
Halberd: See above
YI: messes with our recovery doesn’t hurt her. Not too bad but if you really really despise it and know she won’t pick ps2? Ban YI.

+0
Lucario mu summary

Stages to aim for:
Battlefield
Smashville
Lylat Cruise
Strike Final destination no matter what. Then eliminate Yoshi’s, pokemon stadium 1, and Castle siege in order of preference/player knowledge.

Counterpicks:
Smashville/Battlefield/Lylat Cruise*
Rainbow cruise
Brinstar
Halberd
*In case you want to play it safe pit does well vs lucy on these neutrals

Bans(in order of best choice to least effective): Final destination, Yoshi’s island, Pokemon stadium 1, Castle Siege, Frigate Orpheon.

Things to look out for: Mirror shield POCKETED aura sphere as they take a much longer time to release from input time, PS non pocketed, Recover smartly(aka don’t get hit by auraspheres and watch out for dair/bair), JCUS punish when dair’d on shield, Aura sphere b-reverse to mix up landings, space your upair so it beats dair, be ready to punish rolls, Don't attack with aggression unless your mixing up, you should never attack first. , abuse rolls more than usual, be smart if you plank, try your best to get the kill early with fsmash or bair, bair gimps, dash attack is good.

Summary: Ok so as stated above you aren’t gonna really wanna be the aggressor as opposed to certain mu that you need to be. Of course there are exceptions like juggling , pressing your advantage, edgeguarding, reads, or good mix-ups. Dtilt out ranges every ground option BUT fsmash. Jab is still really good as well but is outranged by his ftilt. Retreating dair, spaced fair, nair crossups, and GENERAL PIT ZONING make this mu. Arrows, arrows, arrows but be wary because his fair CAN simply stop arrows in their tracks in general. If you do get him offstage don’t expect a gimp. So use this opportunity to rack up some major damage with arrows, fair, and bair. Bair CAN gimp but isn’t reliable exactly… We can punish dair on shield with JCUS. Be very careful if he gets you in the air at both low % and high %. Low percent because the aerial strings will be sure to follow. High % because lucario can juggle pit really well tbqh. And it should be how he gets his kills if you’re playing right. Be very safe when recovering and pay attention to your opponents movements. Abuse your rolls smartly vs lucario and be ready to punish his. Uptilt in close quarter combat. It really is an amazing move in this mu. Abuse platforms to the fullest extent. Especially on smashville. It facilitates the whole STAY SAFE AND DON’T APPROACH stuff. Just be careful to not fall into a linear pattern with it and mix it up. Abuse stages where he can’t wall cling; this will help you gimp him.
Counterpicks:
Battlefield: This is probably my favorite stage for Pit vs Lucario. The stage is small, and the platforms benefit Pit alot more than Lucario. Lucario cannot wall cling on this stage or Smashville, so you don't have to worry about an additional recovery option. I would recommend staying under the two platforms on either side. Be weary of his obvious dairs, and make sure you get a hard punish everytime he gets on a platform. If Lucario is on the ledge, don't jump after him, there's no need to go for unnecessary gimps. There are two flashing circles on the left AND right side of

Battlefield, about two Bowser lengths away from the ledge. Stay there and you're in the safe zone. You won't get hit from him getting back on stage, however you're close enough to make a punish. The top platform is useful on this stage if you have a lead, because Lucario only has one move that can hit upward. Bait and dair him.

Smashville: The moving platform is a changing factor in this match. If you're going with the momentum of the platform, you can fthrow CG lucario to 36% then Fsmash him at the end. You can mix up with DA as well. I can't stress enough how good this platform is against Lucario. We have arrows and we really need to utilize our aerial mobility. The platform stays moving so it's constantly resetting the situation, which is excellent in Pit vs Lucario because Pit is good at poking and Lucario needs to string attacks. Arrows are really decent on this stage just because it's a decently sized straight stage. I don't think arrows are necessarily too effective against Lucario in the air, but on the ground definately. This stage is really basic, but I think it changes the ratio in Pit's favor.
Lylat Cruise: The slants help pits zoning and hurt lucarios strings, the slant CAN hurt his recovery( not necessarily facilitate gimps but punishes w/edgeguarding), the slants facilitate landing bairs, the platforms are positioned perfect to play it safe, and if you’ve mastered platform canceling they really help with mixing it up or getting out of tight situations. An overall good stage if you’re worried about various factors such as them changing or you not being exactly use to the better(which will be below this) counterpicks.

Rainbow Cruise: Lucario gains little while pit gains a bunch. Nuff said. If they don’t ban it, it’s a very wise choice. Play VERY safe shark with arrows, and just abuse the stage to the fullest by staying safe. Don’t fight on the boat that much.

Brinstar: Helps with sharking, helps with dair camping and stalling with glide and the like, helps land bairs( A BUNCH), helps us kill way earlier(AWESOME!:D). Another very wise choice.

Halberd: Halberd would be better for Pit, the excessive sharking during the travelling part + large horizontal sprawl (on the ship's deck part of the stage) yet small ceiling makes for good Pit camping and helps us kill earlier with Dash attack, fsmash, and dair. Sweet. Be wary of getting upaired here though…choose this if you don’t like brinstar/rc . Advice choosing this over others only if you know it well and are willing to risk stage gimmicks like claw, laser, and bomb becoming a factor.

[collapse="pikachu mu summary"]text[/collapse][/COLLAPSE]

Krystedez · Feb 28, 2011

BBR Matchup Spread

[collapse=BBR matchup spreadsheet; click to open]BBR MATCHUP SPREAD
Note*, FULL Matchup Chart is located here.

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-1:

0:

1:

2:

3:

________________

What does this chart mean?

Not a whole lot more than you don't already know. Sure, a few things here and there might seem odd, but definitely take into account this is a much larger project than just individual matchup charts/character exports for each character board; this was done on one massive scale within like 3-4 months time.

Will it have updates?

Yes, it has potential to be one of the best goto sources of discussion and responsive competetiveness amongst character boards to take initiative at research and high-level play in order to make it more accurate on future releases. Basically, being a good role model for your character and being active in the community and the forums will allow for someone to catch you and get your opinion on things just as well as any other high-level player.

Can we view discussion from the BBR?

No, that stuff is not available right now. We can however discuss how matchups came to be the way they are. I can't directly quote or tell you who was in what panel. I'm fine with revealing myself as a panelist and component of the Pit matchup spread. That's it.

More questions:

What do the numbers mean?

[collapse=Ratings Definition]-4: (close to) unwinnable
-3: large disadvantage/hard countered
-2: medium disadvantage
-1: small disadvantage
0: even
+1: small advantage
+2: medium advantage
+3: large advantage/hard counter
+4: (close to) unloseable
[/collapse]

[collapse=Ratings Translation - Paraphrased, NOT NECESSARILY EXACT, just my own interpretation.]
-4 -> ~Anything worse
-3 -> ~35-65/30-70
-2 -> ~40-60
-1 -> ~45-55
0 -> ~50-50
+1 -> ~55-45
+2 - ~60-40
+3 -> ~70-30/65-35
+4 -> ~ Anything better
[/collapse]

Further Discussion:

[collapse=Matchups That Deserve Attention]

28/37 Character Panels were not in agreement for our initial spread. (Discrepancies)
-15 Discrepancies were solved with Pit Panel agreeing to their ratio.
-5 Discrepancies were agreed upon at the halfway mark.
-1 Discrepancy was agreed upon by the opposing panel
-7 Matchups Left Unresolved
-- 1 Unresolved Matchup was agreed upon from our rating
-- 6 remaining Unresolved Matchups were agreed upon from the opposing rating.
---Those 6 are listed below:

Original: +2 / Now: +1

Original: +1/ Now: Even

Original: +2 / Now: +1

Original: Even / Now: -1

Original: +1 / Now: -1

From yellow to red, it's the less impactful to me to the more impactful. Snake and ICs are pretty hard hits to me, and I was really hoping for at least even for both of them. But we'll what happens in future iterations of the chart.
[/collapse]
[/collapse]

link2702 · Feb 28, 2011

i'm still trying to figure out where the heck people are getting a 40-60 matchup for meta against pit? O_o

more like 30-70 in metaknights favor....

Abel1994 · Feb 28, 2011

link2702 said:
i'm still trying to figure out where the heck people are getting a 40-60 matchup for meta against pit? O_o

more like 30-70 in metaknights favor....

I personally think the 40/60 is right lol

We can shield reflect his recovery + WoI combo for a kill (need good timing)
Projectile :3 and he is light so a early kill.

Kuro~ · Feb 28, 2011

K Roxy i believe the Ultimate pit guide should be added to this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610

Purple · Feb 28, 2011

Kuro~ said:
K Roxy i believe the Ultimate pit guide should be added to this http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=181610

...

http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12270266&postcount=2

*scratches head*

Kuro~ · Feb 28, 2011

My bad the name threw me off

SAX · Feb 28, 2011

Roxy said:
Ignore this.

I'm afriad I can't do that.

Purple · Feb 28, 2011

SAX said:
I'm afriad I can't do that.

So mad

Purple · Feb 28, 2011

Just post it here and i'll transfer you to my 'ignore this' post.

Krystedez · Mar 1, 2011

Actually I just thought of something.

Wouldnt it be easier to keep my thread open for the discussion of the BBR Matchup chart? That's why I posted it in the first place.

Anyways I'll still edit this chart into this thread anywho, but it will still be discussed there.

Edit: THERE, editted it in on the first page. Do with it as you will

Maharba the Mystic · Mar 1, 2011

kuro you should just take the mu chart for pit that dez took from the new mu thing and put it in there. just make sure you change snake.

Kuro~ · Mar 9, 2011

Maharba the Mystic said:
kuro you should just take the mu chart for pit that dez took from the new mu thing and put it in there. just make sure you change snake.

Done and changed a couple things.

Abel1994 · Mar 14, 2011

You forgot to *** the spam thread.

Maharba the Mystic · Mar 14, 2011

^^ i don't get it

Abel1994 · Mar 14, 2011

Maharba the Mystic said:
^^ i don't get it

I ment add but ma finger slipped to the s

Kuro~ · Mar 14, 2011

Roxy you never at least asked about my mu thread QQ. I'd honestly prefer you wait until i finish all mu's to close the actual thread. If its possible to unclose a thread PLEASE PLEASE unclose mine till its finished. There is noteworthy discussion potential and its just easier for me. Read this soon

Purple · Mar 26, 2011

Kuro~ said:
Roxy you never at least asked about my mu thread QQ. I'd honestly prefer you wait until i finish all mu's to close the actual thread. If its possible to unclose a thread PLEASE PLEASE unclose mine till its finished. There is noteworthy discussion potential and its just easier for me. Read this soon

I definitely asked everyone about their thread, The point of the guide thread is to post all conversation in this particular thread.

W/e though, thread unlocked; PM next time, because i only check this section sparingly.

Abel1994 · Mar 26, 2011

Roxxxxyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

Maharba the Mystic · Oct 15, 2011

kuro you're MU guide isn't updated in here

Maharba the Mystic · Dec 29, 2011

kuro add the true combo guide in here. it has the cg thread collapsed inside of it so we may as well just have the one thread.

theONEjanitor · Jan 11, 2012

why does the pikachu matchup not say anything
and the link to the pikachu thread actually links to the wolf thread.

Kuro~ · Jan 11, 2012

Cuz this one isn't always updated. just go to the mu thread i frequently fix the problems i find. Everything should be right there. As far as summaries once my laptop is fixed :salt:

i'll be posting em.

Loz8ichimaru · Mar 25, 2012

Hey guys, is there a complete video showing all of Pits chaingrabs anywhere?

Grizzlpaw · Apr 9, 2012

Factor in button lag on both sides and Pit immediately hits S Tier
He's not easily punished which really helps when you happen to mispredict

Maharba the Mystic · Apr 12, 2012

in the cg thread there is a link showing how to do some cgs on an unlisted youtube vid

Denti · Apr 13, 2012

Just got finished reading these guides. Good job you guys with these charts and stuff.

Maharba the Mystic · Apr 13, 2012

Denti you're picking up Pit too?

Kryp · Apr 29, 2012

These guides are incredibly helpful. :D

Maharba the Mystic · May 11, 2012

krystedez you need to update the bbr mu thread in here

also i need to add a psuedo list to the cg thread because a lot of people don't DI fthrow>fsmash with their character right and the few character's that have other ways out of it don't do it right because me and my friends were the only people to test literally everything for every character to get out when they could. so for example, every pikachu i have ever played gets hit by fthrow>ss fsmash even though pika is a character with a specific DI to get out. same with olimars and TLs.

Kuro~ · May 11, 2012

Send me the changes in a pm and i'll do it.

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