On the Game of Mafia

[Holder of the Heel]

What is "Mafia"?

The game of mafia is a social game that pits an uninformed majority against an informed minority. Players are typically separated into two categories: a villager AKA "townie" and mafiasos AKA scum. The villagers are told that there is a secret faction among them that intends to pick them off one by one until they are no longer the minority, and that to win they must eliminate the threat to their town. The mafia on the other hand, seek to no longer be the minority, and will win once their remaining members acquires parity with the villagers. In some games their win condition is made more difficult where the mafia must outnumber the town, not be equal to them, which can be a bit harsh since time is the ultimate enemy of the mafia, who must avoid the eye of judgement. If third party roles, as in, players that win on their own terms that are separate from the mafia or village, do not count towards the villager's parity against the mafia, in that case requiring a majority of mafia members is less of a severe task.

What makes Mafia "Fun"?

The answer is simple: the players. What's not most important is the roles, but the people in them. Individuals communicating, working together, thinking critically, or competing is enjoyable. Therefore, anything within the design of the game that works against that should be left out. A mafiaso role that can silence a player, for example, has tactical value, but now activity is lowered when perhaps that player could be adding to the quality of the game with their presence. Each player should be able and feel compelled to do act, to accomplish something rather than nothing. Players thus should also not have to question their own competence, so roles that involve randomly succeeding or not should perhaps be avoided.

ALTERNATE ALLEGIANCES

Survivor
Win condition: Make it to the end alive.
Whereas a townie or mafiaso can still win in death if their team avenges them, a Survivor needs to do as their name implies: survive. That means it does not matter which side prevails. If the mafia overcomes the town, or if the town eliminates all threats, so long as the game ended with the Survivor among the winners, they share in the victory.

The unique dynamic that comes from that is a player whose interest is simply to end the game as fast as possible, and thus they are looking for what direction the wind is blowing. Yet at the same time, they do not want to come across as threat to either the town or the mafia lest they come up short.

A fault that can arise from this alignment is that the Survivor feels a lack of identity. They may feel, "Well if I just lay low and skate by, I'll avoid the fireworks and eventually the game will end." Any host using a role with this kind of alignment must try to keep that in mind when designing the other roles or when considering to give the Survivor a Night action of their own to compliment their goal.

Fool
Win condition: To be lynched OR to be killed.
The opposite of the Survivor. Most often the Fool specifically wants to be lynched, not killed at Night. This means the player wants to earn the ire of the town and come across as the most beneficial target to eliminate. Ultimately the Fool serves to be a nuisance to the villagers in particular and a boon for the mafia. The role's effect on the game increases tenfold if the host openly informs all of the players that there is a Fool among them. This will create another layer of paranoia: is that player just trying to appear suspicious to get attention? Thus the Fool will have to be crafty to instigate their death. The mafia will also abuse this public knowledge by using its existence as a shield from scrutiny: perhaps they aren't mafia but just trying to appear as one?

Considerations are whether the Fool has abilities and if so what kind. Do they avoid Nightkills making their win condition their only way out, or should they try to balance the act of teasing the Town but not tempting anyone with kill shots. Do they have an ability that makes them easier to lynch? Perhaps harder? Maybe they can win by being killed to make it easier. Can they block or hide*** behind players to survive the Night phases?

A flaw with the role is that the Town can not really care about the Fool's existence: if someone seems like a problem, that's problem enough, and if it's a/the Fool, well good riddance and we will move on. A solution would be to tell the town not only of the Fool's existence but also that if they succeed, the villagers receive some form of penalty that will make them regret it more than just a wasted Day phase. It could even be extended to the Night: if the mafia kills the Fool, they too might suffer as a group more than just having wasted a Night phase.

***Hiders can choose a player to target at Night and as a result anyone targeting the Hider specifically fails to get any results, whereas if someone targets the player the Hider is behind, whatever happens to them also happens to the Hider. If the Hider's target is attacked, they both are. If they are protected, so is the Hider. If one is investigated, the Cop will mysteriously receive two results.

Mastermind
Win condition: Survive during a mafia victory.
Typically the investigating is down by the villagers. The mafia knows their allies, so their goal is to abuse the ignorance and fear of those who aren't to move forward. But there is an exception: a role that is both third party and mafia at the same time AKA Third Party Mafia. The result is this: the mafia are informed that there is a Mastermind in the game. A player that wins when the mafia do, but so long as they live to see that victory, the mafia themselves lose and only the Mastermind wins.

This means that the mafia knows their allies, but they also must investigate themselves: who is the Mastermind that is secretly working against the town? Simultaneously, the Mastermind will wish to be undiscovered by the Mafia yet benefit their cause. Often times the Mastermind can communicate anonymously through the host to the Mafia, or the Mafia anonymously to the Mastermind through the host, creating a duplicitous relationship and link between them. Who is on the other end typing these messages? What if we talk about kill this player--if that's who they are what will they say? The mafia is now not only hunting for powerful villagers, but also potential Mastermind suspects, both with their Night kills but also gives them a goal during the Day: it is a perfect opportunity to "hunt" like anyone else.

Some considerations. Whether the Mastermind comes up innocent or dirty upon alignment checks. Whether the Mastermind or the mafia have role abilities that help them find each other. Is there an additional penalty or boon tied to the existence of the Mastermind with respect to the mafia? Should the town be told up front about the mafia's dilemma, is that a secret for them to know alone, or maybe one role among the villagers is tipped off about the existence of such a player.

Autocrat
Win condition: Survive during a town victory.
This is the townie version of the Mastermind, a Third Party Villager. A player that wants the mafia and any other threats to the town to be eliminated; however, if they survive to see such an end, the town is robbed of their victory and it is handed solely to the Autocrat. Once again, this is the kind of role that should be open to the town's knowledge: they ought to know that unless they get rid of a unique threat among their ranks, they can never truly win. That will also mean the mafia knows of its existence and will be weary of Nightkilling anyone they suspect of being the Autocrat.

Some of the same considerations apply with this role that goes with the Mastermind. Should they be a Miller-type role and come up threatening upon alignment checks or should they blend in? Is the Autocrat's existence enforcing something upon the town that further instills the need to find him or her? Perhaps a lynch lock tied to their life, for example. Does the Autocrat have a function, and what would it be?

Cult Leader
Win condition: Create a faction equal to or greater in size than the villagers.
The usual setup involves multiple predetermined forces that are pitted against one another. With the existence of the Cultist, a new dynamic exists. The Cultist is a minority faction all on his own that must match the villagers just like the Mafia, but in this case it only starts as one player. They must instead convert other players onto their side, often by targeting them at Night. The result is that a player may start as a villager, but if they are visited by the Cult Leader, they become a cultist themselves, almost like an infection.

Some considerations are whether or not a player can be returned to their normal allegiance, or if whether or not the death of the leader ends the conversion on all of his or her victims. Additionally, a problem arises when mafiasos are put into the mix: if the Cultist is allowed to convert a member of the mafia, it risks immediately imploding the group by having the infected mafiaso to leak who their old partners are, which can destroy the game. That means that it is recommended that the Mafia is immune to such conversions. Another option is to make it so that the converted player isn't actually converted, but is merely treated as a part of the Cult Leader's win condition.

This is the kind of role that can be really hard to balance as its influence cannot be contained and predicted like a premade team of villagers or mafia, and thus good judgment must be used when trying to find a way to implement an infection mechanic tied to a win condition. If successful though, it can serve as a new and additional layer of suspicion and mindgames.

Politician
Win condition: Changes between a mafia victory and a villager victory over time.
This is a role that is perhaps aligned with the town at first, but is told that throughout the game, their allegiance will change. The next Day phase they might become mafia-aligned and, while they do not know who the mafia are, they know that if they win right now, it will be their victory as well. The pattern continues until the game ends, constantly going from wanting the town to win and then the mafia again. The result is a player that must play both sides of the game, like a politician, and plan ahead for when they need the game to end and how so they can be standing with the winning side.

The politician may come up shifty or dangerous upon checks, or maybe they come up clean during the Nights they are considered among the village faction and only come up as threats to cops on the Nights that they are on the side of the mafia. Whether the town should be privy to the existence of such a whimsical role is something to consider based on what the set-up has. Another question is, what kind of powers, if any, should the politician have that goes with their ever-changing nature. Should their ability change along with their win condition? Perhaps their role should be something that can exist on either side, for example, a role blocker.

ALIGNMENT CHECKERS

Cops can select a player at Night and be informed by the host whether their target is friendly or hostile.
One of, if not the most, common and powerful role in the game of mafia, it is nearly inseparable from it. Its known, or usually presumed existence causes the mafia to worry about their perception: they don't want to risk being the most suspicious player in the eyes of anyone, lest they be the cop and immediately end their game.

There is something to be said however on whether its power goes against the spirit of the game. Should there be a role that can point at someone and know the one detail most significant in the game about someone? Should there be limitations? Sometimes this role is subject too randomness, so there is a chance they'll just be wrong. Maybe their results are the opposite of the truth--townies come up dirty and scum come up clean, all without them knowing of their handicap. Exercise due caution when considering such options to ensure that players feel like they can act meaningfully and have a positive impact.

Often there is a Godfather amidst the mafia that is used as a form of balance for the Cop's power. The Godfather is a mafiaso that comes up as a villager on checks from Cops. Typically the Cop doesn't know about the Godfather's existence, but it is so common that it's a possibility almost always kept in mind of experienced players.

An additional counter to the Cop's is the reverse, the Miller, which is less of a gift but a curse for the player. They win with or by the town, but come up as hostile. This can be a bit discouraging to the player given this role, so any additions to their role should be to justify or compensate for that weakness. Once again Cops aren't always informed of the existence of Millers in the game, but they are almost as common as the Godfather and are usually also kept in mind too.

COMMON ABILITIES

Revival
Brings back players that are dead back into the game.
This is a powerful role. Being able to slow down the mafia's victory on its own is useful, but if the deaths of players reveals their alignment, then the player revived is essentially a confirmed ally to the town for everyone to see, which goes against the standard of mafia: not everyone can know something for certain about one another. What often happens is that the mafia just spends the next Night killing them again; they know what they are capable of because they've since their role, and they cannot be framed unlike every other player.

One possibility would be to make with having this role is that roles are not revealed upon deaths, but that does eliminate crucial information for the players to talk about, and anything that detracts from activity should be considered a negative. Yes, the mafia could use the unknown to play to their narrative, but the mafia are more inclined to be quiet than active if given the choice. Perhaps roles could be revealed but their alignment obscured, although often times the role belies what side they would be on: for example, a Doctor would obviously be a villager.

Another potential limitation to the role is that if the reviver is killed, whoever they revived is also removed from the game, thus the game is not slowed or ground isn't being retreated. Maybe the revived isn't completely alive, but a spirit. Do they have a vote? Their role? Can they be targeted? The consideration is, should a player be brought back whole or changed?

Doctor
Can select a player and ensure they are not killed at Night
Doctors are potentially powerful, they can stop the mafia in their murders. However, statistically it is very unlikely they can select the same target as the mafia. However, increasing how many players they can select can then make it far too powerful, thus I would advise due caution in trying to lend any buffs to the good Doctor. However, a courtesy that may be considered is informing the Doctor when their target is in fact attacked, so it is never left ambiguous that the mafia failed to act or if they targeted someone immune to kills or if the attacker was blocked.

Consideration: Do not allow the Doctor to operate on themselves, otherwise they will almost certainly do it a lot because there is no life we value more than our own. And it is even logical: we know our own alignment, whereas we don't know for certain if we're protecting an ally when targeting someone else.

Listener
Can receive private messages sent by other players.
At Night players are given the privacy to talk to people in particular without the eyes of everyone on them. However, some roles can step in and retrieve messages passed, almost like picking up a radio frequency. Such a role could be town or mafia, although perhaps more fitting among the latter as a source of finding sensitive information to use against the town.

Considerations: Should the given messages be random or is their a method? Should they be anonymous so the Listener has to figure out who was speaking to who with these words?

 

[Holder of the Heel]

How to Play

Here's a list of tactics I've heard/read about or seen first hand in mafia games and in real life by politicians.

1. Appeal to inexperience or past experiences whenever applicable or confronted - As in, when someone criticizes something you've said or done about someone or some topic, the best thing to do isn't necessarily to try to refute them, or at least solely try to do so, as it then becomes an argument, where now both parties are trying to tout expertise. If it can't be contradicted, prefacing or closing with remarks about how you could be ignorant due to a status that transcends the situation, or by referencing your own, separate or private experiences that reinforce how you think the way you do, it becomes less about the adversary being wrong, but creates a useful perception of relativism/perspectivism that snuffs out earnest criticism.
2. Regard everyone positively whenever feasible - A common way for people to confront you is when you're confronting them. People, either in intention, or through knowledge of fact, believe themselves to be right, or good, so contradicting them on this point will automatically leave them to think you're misrepresenting them. On the other hand, recognize the goodness of those who are good, and they will see you as perceptive, in that you are correct, and accepting those who are not good puts yourself firmly out of their way. But don't reach your hand down to someone digging their own grave, they'll just pull you in.
3. Turn on allies when they're more trouble than they're worth - This really goes for both townies and mafia, but in the case of the former its really just eliminating priorities/expendables. The mafia's greatest strength is its informed nature, of its allies, so it goes against their nature to turn on their own, especially since their weakness is their low numbers. However, an alignment can win so long as someone lives to represent it. If a mafiaso is compromising secrets, connections, or is simply doomed, they are creating a scenario where they are threatening the mafia's advantage, so as they say, cut your losses, because victory depends entirely on your advantages being greater than your disadvantages. Not to mention, townies like players that kill their enemies.
4. Do not declare war on those who pursue you - Someone thinks you need to go, or thinks something is fishy about you. The absolute worst thing is to begin launching your nukes onto this person, as said above, declaring someone an enemy will just further their poor perception of you, by either knowing you're wrong, or by finding you a threat in being right. Or simply by butting heads with them, they become emotional and is longer a matter of interests. The best way to disarm a dissenter and diffuse a situation is to turn the other cheek. Instead, appeal to, again, transcendent factors to the situation that explain their feelings or conclusion, or promise to improve.
5. Avoid answering bogus attacks - If someone picking at you doesn't have any evidence or reasonable cause for concern, don't acknowledge them. Doing so makes you appear insecure, creates a discussion about it, and gives credence to their attack. If no one else is picking up what they're putting down, don't be the first.
6. Never defy peoples' expectations - When people create an image of how you talk, behave, react, etc. in their head, and you contradict that, regardless of your reason, that raises flags and turns on alarms. They may sooner attribute the change to maliciousness, shadiness, weakness, rather than them simply being wrong, or some transcending element obstructing your activity or stirring emotional responses. Try to coincide any differences in intention you may have with peoples' idea of you, and the mafia you and the townie you will appear the same.
7. Don't ask for info or influence if you haven't met them halfway - No one likes it when a stranger goes around asking for everyone's personal details or to follow their agenda. Play some cards, put chips on the table, before ever trying to ask about the hands of others or telling them to bet on you. As townies are ignorant by nature, they have to respect someone "transparent".
8. When killing or harming your enemies, never be the most to benefit - Just like with crime in real life, one of investigation's primary concerns are motive. Why would someone kill the player who made this claim, or tried to start a lynch mob for this player, or read these people as town and these mafia? And so on. Victims, even the dead, tell stories. But that isn't to say never act with benefits in mind, just don't be the prince in line to the throne who stabs the king in the back and expects no one to look your way.
9. Do not flip-flop, even if ignored or defied - If you go out of your way to make someone look good or bad, if the wind starts blowing in a different direction, don't just get swept up in its current - that's not how genuine people think. People have biases, feelings, grounded in who they are and what they see - if you're not rooted into what you say, that means people will think, correctly, that you don't mean what you say. Even if you look foolish, or even questionable, don't try to crawl into the herd; townies, and people, are wrong and stubborn often. Anything different is artificial and will receive even more flak.
10. Never appear the weakest nor the strongest - The path of least resistance is the middle road. Townies hunt the weakest during the Day, and the mafia have cause to eliminate the strongest at Night. Avoid the town's ire by never being at the top of the suspect list, but never be the most powerful, the most trusted, the most elusive, as either you will be harmed, or even best case scenario, if nothing happens to you, people will call bull****. Aristotle's golden mean virtues come to mind, don't be extreme in your behavior in either direction; this will make you inoffensive to all. Just moderate your own moderation, as someone may see that which is unremarkable, in itself, remarkable.
11. If you cannot give a good argument, don't give a bad one - If there is someone who is rather troublesome for your plans, or is actively threatening your partners, it is in your best interest, naturally, to be rid of them. Or perhaps, you or one of your own, or a townie that is valuable in your eyes, is being tied up. In these situations, you don't necessarily have the means to save the damned or cast out the threat. In such scenarios, close your mouth. Flailing desperately to have your way when you cannot explain why you should will sully your reputation instantly.
12. Do not use your own words, but your listener's - The most convincing individual in any person's life is themselves. When you speak to someone, you can be as elegant and consistent as possible, but your listener, with their own nuances and biases, they don't necessarily see the same picture, because you're successfully putting together a puzzle--but with your own pieces, not theirs. Understand the diction the listener uses, know their views and feelings with others, with their philosophy for getting what they want or need. Then it will be as if they came up with the idea, and they will be the champion of your own cause.
13. What is being said is only as important as who is speaking - Speaking of words in relation to whose they are, when someone needs to be told to do something, or to be informed of something, it often isn't enough to say it properly, but for the speaker to be respected, or it cannot be someone whose motivations for speaking could be called into question (conflict of interests), and so on. If there is a better candidate than you to press a certain point, then delegate the proposal to another, or guide them to reaching the same conclusion/concern, so then they present it.
14. Don't fight on the stage set by the opponent - This point isn't just with mafia, but something I've seen politicians in this election use, a topic that can also be brought up in another post. My meaning is this: when you're confronted with hard truths, or statistical numbers, don't bicker about their validity or throw your own numbers and facts at them, but instead play to fantasies, emotions. If someone tells a heartfelt story or shares a grievance, slam them with--yes--hard truths and statistics. You're being made a fool of--get serious. Someone displays incredible dedication and focus against you--turn it into a joke to laugh at. If something is said to be plain and simple, say there's a whole lot more going on than they think. If it's instead complex and interconnected, tell them they are over-complicating something very basic. You can avoid losing their games simply by choosing to play your own.
15. Never say "No", instead "Yes, no, but yes"; Never say "Me", instead "You, me, and us" - This is one I actually heard worded in a video about interaction, and it immediately made sense to me. When someone says something you disagree with, you is going a direction you don't agree with, don't simply contradict them. Acknowledge why they say what they have, envision the course, then explain your disagreement, show an alternate path, then close by comparing it to what they've said/done and how he/she got there. A combination of using the listener's view, not your own, and without butting heads with them because your first and last step was with them.
16. Everything can be rationalized - Not everything can be done at any given moment, and won't necessarily be easy when even possible. However, when design, allegiance, and motivations are forever murky to players, to human beings, you can fill the gap between host and players, between the mind of one person to another, with an infinite amount of paths with their own explanation. People can only be so certain about things, know so much, and have so much time to use. Know the state of the board you know you want, and figure out the steps that each piece needs to take in order to establish the narrative, the dynamic, the dichotomy, needed to rationalize your goal.
17. Be the author of every idea - Openly consider every possibility so that, when the truth is revealed, you are correct. It is not that you champion every cause, or accuse everyone, but to very plainly paint the various possibilities for what happened, who is what, and so on, even when they are damning to your aims, so that whether good or bad, the outcome is something you've expressed and no one can ever call you wrong.
18. Leave fake clues in your tracks to appeal to when in danger - In mafia this is called leaving "breadcrumbs" for role claiming, where they drop subtle hints in what they say that references what they are that no one will notice when reading it, but when pointed out when scrutinized, players will see that they hinted at their existence long before the moment of accusation, thereby creating a narrative that reinforces your claim. This is something that has been done before in our games several times actually, but always from innocents who speak the truth. What I'm suggesting here, too, is that as mafia, drop various innocuous hints that don't necessarily all aim for one reveal but a large number, so that you can select whatever breadcrumbs that most fit the situation at hand whenever pressed.
19. Never quit - A tad obvious, but it's something that happens. Even when it's all but certain you will die or get caught, continue your act and story to the bitter end. Not simply because there's no telling if something miraculous could happen, but also to keep the atmosphere in the town divisive for as long as possible. Mafia, being an informed minority, can use the cracks and pieces to attempt returning the game back in their favor.
20. Go with simplistic, memorable, and repetitious rhetoric over complicated arguments and big words
    The human mind is not a machine, and sentences aren't equations. It's amazing how more drawn in people are when people repeat themselves, how a basic concept can get stuck in our mind, and when on the contrary, someone goes on a tangent about specifics and data, are eyes glaze over, and we don't remember the details in the end. It's important to be understood and to be remembered, period. You don't seize a democracy simply by being correct or sophisticated, it's a contest of opinion.
21. Contrast yourself to rivals, stand out
    With so many candidates running, the media only talking about what is remarkable, what people are already invested in hearing so they'll tune in, it's absolutely crucial that, no matter the cost, the conversation is to be centered around you. Lately, I've been more convinced than ever that the saying "Any publicity is good publicity" is true. Those who might be correct, more well behaved, etc. can be snuffed out if they aren't the ones being talked about. The people who voters go for are the ones they know, the ones that define the election.
22. When compared to the "enemy", or a rival, appeal to compromise and realism
    If complaints are put forward that opposers, within and without, gain ground with you, point out that only so much is possible, and that it was done not out of your weakness, but out of your practical/pragmatic mind, transforming what has been levied as a vice, in truth a virtue. In this way, it becomes difficult to criticize you, as faults are either conceived as inevitable for anyone, or better than what "stubborn, idealistic" dissenters could accomplish.
23. Appear honest to a fault
    This could be a new thing, but disavowing the term politician has been a tactic used by some, capitalizing on the reputation that government officials, those in power, those elected, are simply selfish, all talk, and two-faced. Showing that you can do what they do, but still not be them, is an attempt to get their benefits but without their reputation, and people, understandably, applaud it. They become easier to relate to.
24. Always show how much those most involved in your life appreciate and respect you
    The people watching can only know so much about you while you're campaigning, but family knows you, and family is what voters know. Hearing support from these people let's you know there's more than just the policy discussing individual that they have to be, and again, makes you easier to relate to.
25. Talk about how everyone thinks or says you are doing the best
    Given that this is a democracy, a battle of voices, a tactic constantly used by Trump is to make frequent references to what people are saying about what he's done, what he's said, his performance, and so on, creating an imagine in the listener that he is succeeding, that he is superior.
26. Regard criticism as discrimination or hate
    People, generally, believe themselves to want love, goodness, rightness, fairness to prevail. If you are to acquire their support, you must appear to have those qualities, and conversely, opponents need to be lacking. When people level complaints against you, a reliable way to shut down all discussion of it is to make it taboo, labeling it as racist, sexist, misogynist, misandrist, some form of hate speech. This allows you to tear down their ideas without understanding them, without having to deal with facts.
27. When your history is criticized, tell them they are stuck in the past
    Important accomplishments are to be touted, as they are a great way to gain respect, but people who reference blunders in your past, the way to deal with them is to mock them for talking about something other than the present or the future. Tell them you've improved, learned, "adapted", point out that we all make mistakes, and claim strength in that opponents have to tear you down by referencing history and not what is being said or done now. It's interesting how politicians can get away with that kind of double standard, but it works.
28. When asked to choose sides in regards to a controversial question, introduce a new frame. Instead of taking a stand, drawing a line between friends and enemies, answer in such a way that supports both views, or can at least be referenced in hindsight to have been "foresight", or ahead of the curve. Getting trapped in a dichotomy of yes or no, this or that, is dangerous, so however possible, change the scope of the question to serve the answer you want to give. During debates I saw frequently people flat out not answer a question directly by turning it the way they wanted.
29. When ahead of rivals, tell them and their followers are holding everyone back
    Surpassing rivals heading towards a certain goal, or fighting the same enemy, is only the first step. First, you have to maintain that lead, and one way to do that is to shame the rest as being divisive, dreaming, stubborn, giving strength and advantage to the enemy, or dragging them from the goal. Ask for unity if they truly wish to succeed, for them to fall in line.
30. When ahead, make yourself scarce
    On the path to victory, the only way to failure is to fall off course, and the best way to do that is to not allow opportunities for derailment, to not make any waves. It won't matter that you appear weak or afraid, not giving your rivals a chance to prove themselves the better whenever possible will leave them struggling and old news, it shuts them out of the conversation, out of the vision.

 

[Wolfie557]

I started making my roles already. Need to read all of this once I'm less busy with college and stuff.

Think I'm going overboard like each has 2 or 3 main abilities with like 4 drawbacks....

Would that even make the mafia playable XD.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Think I'm going overboard like each has 2 or 3 main abilities with like 4 drawbacks....

Would that even make the mafia playable XD.

I've hosted a large mafia game where every role had multiple passives and/or actions to pick from at Night. Liberation hosted a few games that also had many attributes to each role.

Just make sure that the powers given to any one player don't hijack the game away from all the other players. Control over phases, posts, or lives should be very conservatively considered.

 

[Wolfie557]

I was thinking of how revivals could work.

So I thought of a temporary graveyard for dead players if there's a chance they can be revived. One that doesn't reveal roles of players still alive but they can talk about the game. Once players who can revive all have died, the remaining roles and characters are revealed in the OP. That way players that are revived don't know much still.

Forgive me if that's what happens anyway

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I was thinking of how revivals could work.

So I thought of a temporary graveyard for dead players if there's a chance they can be revived. One that doesn't reveal roles of players still alive but they can talk about the game. Once players who can revive all have died, the remaining roles and characters are revealed in the OP. That way players that are revived don't know much still.

Forgive me if that's what happens anyway

That is indeed what happens anyways.

We had it in my game.

Aurane was the only person who got to go there though.

Poor Aurane.

 

[Aurane]

That is indeed what happens anyways.

We had it in my game.

Aurane was the only person who got to go there though.

Poor Aurane.

I don't wanna talk about it. ;(

 

[A Distant Demon]

So after DB Mafia I mentioned I would have a post here about a few topics I wanted to bring up for future games. Bad time to make it because SB is breaking but I'll go for it.


1. Consistency.
So, this one is a bit weird because it's partyl based on games before I even joined. MafiaScum, the handy-dandy wiki I know people have been using for this isn't entirely consistent either. So I want to make things consistent so people know what to expect when going in.

so:

1. Should players be notified when they are attacked of they survive? (Bulletproof/healed or protected/etc) Same for if you are roleblocked.
2. should X-shot abilities be consumed if roleblocked or they cant work? (X shots are abilities with limited uses, like Vegeta, Goku, and Yajirobe from my game.

Personally, i can go either way on if you are attacked (you should be notified if you are a one time bulletproof tho so you know that's gone) and think you should DEFINITELY be told when you are roleblocked and you try to act (dont act and get roleblocked and you shouldnt be told). IMO.

Mafiascum said that x shots are usually consumed, but I personally disagree


With the regular stuff out of the way

2. Mayors
Im starting to think vanilla town mayors are lame as ****. Day one they claim mayor and then everyone tells their role and then by day 2 everyone knows every role and it doesnt really matter what role you claim because it's a matter of checking off boxes.

The whle point of mafia is that no one knows anything, and a role that let's everyone instantly know everyone's role and removes the necessary secrecy seems. . .counter productive.


3. No lynch
Day 1 is boring as ****. Nothing happens unless someone gets super aggressive and tries to force people to claim. Getting rid of no lynch would force people to actually defend themself so they dont get lynched. BUT it also means one player basically doesn't get to play the game. And that's bad. I would rather have a boring day one than **** a player over personally. Anyone have a better suggestion than banning no lynch altogether?

 

[Opossum]

There are a few things with the general complacency some have with certain roles that I plan on shaking up with FEH Mafia 2. I'd say more but it'd give away some neat surprises and experimental doodad roles.

 

[Deleted member]

I have to agree we've been handling mayors really badly, especially with how we trust them and, as Golden has said on multiple occasions, is going to eventually bite us in the ass. If Mayors are still being used, I think the solution to them would be to either include modifiers that prevent them from acting the way they've been doing(i.e.: "revealing your ability will make you lose it") or just start including Scum Doublevoters to serve as a Wake Up Call to everyone.

As for No Day 1 Lynch... It's really hard to figure out. I think the best way to go about it would be to either A) make Day 1 half the duration of other phases or B) include se sort of role or gimmick that would make it interesting in some way.
Don't ask me the specifics on the latter though, I'm just throwimg ideas out there.

 

[Opossum]

I will say this, though...

Having a more limited theme when it comes to potential fake claims isn't necessarily too bad...so long as you put a smaller cap on the amount of players. In a lot of ways, these smaller games help reduce potential Mafia burnout, too.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Should players be notified when they are attacked of they survive? (Bulletproof/healed or protected/etc) Same for if you are roleblocked.

Yes.

should X-shot abilities be consumed if roleblocked or they cant work? (X shots are abilities with limited uses, like Vegeta, Goku, and Yajirobe from my game.

One-Shot? No. It would suck to lose your one time from a failed attempt.

Two-Shot? Depends on how powerful it is, imo.

Three-Shot or more? With how long these games last, losing one out of three isn't a major loss...

2. Mayors

Add a doublevoting scum who won't say a thing about being a doublevoter.

Should throw people off-guard.

3. No lynch

I say we allow "No Lynch" but only on day 1 so that everyone gets to play at least two phases.

 

[Wolfie557]

according to the mafiascum wiki, how things should be done depends on how the moderator wants the game to be...so yh it's not clear like you said but it really depends on the intention. I think it's better to actually give some sort of result.

Like if you are blocked, don't need to say blocked but at the very least that your action has failed.

Then it's up to the player to figure out how. But saying nothing doesn't help in anyway, especially if you were attacked. How would I know I'm protected and attacked when I don't get anything when I survive, for example. For all I know I wasn't even targeted.

edit: oh I had no mayor in my game for a reason

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

I agree with White. Telling something, even if just a vague success or fail message is way better than saying nothing at all.

I'd say that was your only bad thing as a host, Zeb. An understandable one because you had 10-15 PMs to manage and not everyone has time for that, but a bad thing nonetheless.

 

[Deleted member]

so:
1. Should players be notified when they are attacked of they survive? (Bulletproof/healed or protected/etc) Same for if you are roleblocked.

Yes on being attacked no matter what. For being roleblocked, as you said later, it should only be mentioned if it affected you, not if you didn't do anything.

2. should X-shot abilities be consumed if roleblocked or they cant work? (X shots are abilities with limited uses, like Vegeta, Goku, and Yajirobe from my game.

No.
If a role prevents them from triggering their role to begin with, it shouldn't be used up.
If it's something like an X-Shot Kill aiming at someone who happens to be protected for the Night, then it should be used up since it was something involving the target, not the one targeting.

Mayors
Im starting to think vanilla town mayors are lame as ****. Day one they claim mayor and then everyone tells their role and then by day 2 everyone knows every role and it doesnt really matter what role you claim because it's a matter of checking off boxes.

The whle point of mafia is that no one knows anything, and a role that let's everyone instantly know everyone's role and removes the necessary secrecy seems. . .counter productive.

You already know my stance on how people have been playing when it comes to Mayors.
Something needs to be done to shake these bad habits (among other ones that I'm not going to disclose here) and get people to be more cautious instead of blindingly trusting someone and giving them your information just because "they proved they can doublevote". This is where Mafia Doublevoters or even Third-Party Doublevoters come into play.

No lynch
Day 1 is boring as ****. Nothing happens unless someone gets super aggressive and tries to force people to claim. Getting rid of no lynch would force people to actually defend themself so they dont get lynched. BUT it also means one player basically doesn't get to play the game. And that's bad. I would rather have a boring day one than **** a player over personally. Anyone have a better suggestion than banning no lynch altogether?

This is ironically where the Fool would come into play despite people complaining about the role.
If you can't vote to not Lynch someone, why not Lynch the Fool so that they get a free victory and the only one who doesn't "get to play" is the one whose goal was to die anyway?
But the caveat should be that the Fool cannot out themselves as the Fool in order to be lynched or they lose their win condition. Or be obvious like claiming they are Mafia unprovoked just so people vote for them. :V

 

[Wolfie557]

I was disapointed NSG turned out to be townie haha. But i'd defo be dead if he wasn't.

If I'm ever the fool, I'll be the best fool. You won't even see it coming XD.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

I was disapointed NSG turned out to be townie haha. But i'd defo be dead if he wasn't.

If I'm ever the fool, I'll be the best fool. You won't even see it coming XD.

Mark my words, the game you actually try to act suspicious on purpose is the game where you end up convincing the town they need you.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

3. No lynch
Day 1 is boring as ****. Nothing happens unless someone gets super aggressive and tries to force people to claim. Getting rid of no lynch would force people to actually defend themself so they dont get lynched. BUT it also means one player basically doesn't get to play the game. And that's bad. I would rather have a boring day one than **** a player over personally. Anyone have a better suggestion than banning no lynch altogether?

I wouldn't feel bad about someone being lynched on Day 1. Dying is a part of the game. Dying on Night 1 isn't much different, it's a bit more time but it's also very sudden--you don't see your death coming unlike with votes during the Day. It's all to be expected going in I think.

If No Lynch is allowed and you are worried about discussion, make some things public about the set-up that could start some conversation. Is there a fool that everyone wants to keep alive? Is there a cult/zombie? Are there multiple mafias? Is there a serial killer? Maybe some of the rules are changed because of a player's passive effect--such as the No Lynch option itself, or tie breakers, or length of phases, or maybe a mafia prevents players from quoting PMs so everything must be hearsay. Perhaps there is a one-time opportunity for a player to earn some power or right during Day 1 that invigorates the desire to have a lynch on that specific day. Maybe the town is publicly told that there is a scapegoat townie player that will die automatically if there is a no lynch, so the town will consider lynching someone in order to not lose a guaranteed ally (preferably someone who can actually help so players care).

 

[Deleted member]

I'll stand by my belief that Fool is a terrible role because it goes against what Mafia is all about and basically forces the player with it to play as little as possible.

 

[Wolfie557]

Mark my words, the game you actually try to act suspicious on purpose is the game where you end up convincing the town they need you.

don't worry. I'll find a way XD

I wouldn't feel bad about someone being lynched on Day 1. Dying is a part of the game. Dying on Night 1 isn't much different, it's a bit more time but it's also very sudden--you don't see your death coming unlike with votes during the Day. It's all to be expected going in I think.

If No Lynch is allowed and you are worried about discussion, make some things public about the set-up that could start some conversation. Is there a fool that everyone wants to keep alive? Is there a cult/zombie? Are there multiple mafias? Is there a serial killer? Maybe some of the rules are changed because of a player's passive effect--such as the No Lynch option itself, or tie breakers, or length of phases, or maybe a mafia prevents players from quoting PMs so everything must be hearsay. Perhaps there is a one-time opportunity for a player to earn some power or right during Day 1 that invigorates the desire to have a lynch on that specific day. Maybe the town is publicly told that there is a scapegoat townie player that will die automatically if there is a no lynch, so the town will consider lynching someone in order to lose a guaranteed ally (preferably someone who can actually help so players care).

make a game after the FFA plez.

I'll stand by my belief that Fool is a terrible role because it goes against what Mafia is all about and basically forces the player with it to play as little as possible.

or you can decide when its time to die for yourself. have some fun then get lynched and win before you get killed off at night.

Risk-reward is fun. I wanna be fool or any 3rd party dammit XD.

Imagine a SK role, where I convince town I'm friendly by being just the right amount of suspicious lmaoooo.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I'll stand by my belief that Fool is a terrible role because it goes against what Mafia is all about and basically forces the player with it to play as little as possible.

That's why many of our fools in the past had to do something before getting lynched.

Like, roleblocking three people, for example.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

Resurrect the fool as a powerful spirit that makes everyone's life harder. So they want to die, the town doesn't want them to die, and it's fun for them still.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

make a game after the FFA plez.

I dunno. Maybe. Motivation is difficult for me to obtain lol.

A theme I had in my mind long ago was Shin Megami Tensei where town would be the neutral alignment, which is against two mini mafia teams (maybe comprised of a leader and minion) with one as Chaos and the other as Law.

 

[Deleted member]

I was here thinking about the problem with theme games and the obvious solution only now hit me.
Just give the Mafia team a some characters from the theme who are not in the game.
This way, theme becomes just something that adds flavor to the game without centralizing around finding out which character each player is.

 

[Wolfie557]

I was here thinking about the problem with theme games and the obvious solution only now hit me.
Just give the Mafia team a some characters from the theme who are not in the game.
This way, theme becomes just something that adds flavor to the game without centralizing around finding out which character each player is.

I'm confused. Is that like one of the mafia in umbral battleship not being actually in the fate game the theme is based around?

Or are you saying good guys could be mafia and bad guys could be town?

 

[praline]

I'm confused. Is that like one of the mafia in umbral battleship not being actually in the fate game the theme is based around?

Or are you saying good guys could be mafia and bad guys could be town?

He said to give the mafia people a short list of characters not in the game so they can better fake claim and I imagine live longer.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

He said to give the mafia people a short list of characters not in the game so they can better fake claim and I imagine live longer.

That's actually an interesting idea.

 

[Wolfie557]

That's a very good idea. Maybe even just list all characters that are town. But that guarantees fakeclaim not being double instead of just helping removing an entire risky aspect of the game. So shishoe is prob right.

 

[Deleted member]

That's a very good idea. Maybe even just list all characters that are town. But that guarantees fakeclaim not being double instead of just helping. So shishoe is prob right.

I considered the idea of giving them the Town character list but that still doesn't solve the fact of them having to find claims on their own if they don't know the theme, and if they do, they could probably figure everyone's abilities by their characters.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

That's a very good idea. Maybe even just list all characters that are town. But that guarantees fakeclaim not being double instead of just helping removing an entire risky aspect of the game.

Yeah, but...

I considered the idea of giving them the Town character list but that still doesn't solve the fact of them having to find claims on their own if they don't know the theme, and if they do, they could probably figure everyone's abilities by their characters.

DAMMIT, SHOE! NINJA'D ME RIGHT BEFORE I COULD THINK OF WRITING MY STUFF!

 

[Wolfie557]

I dunno. Maybe. Motivation is difficult for me to obtain lol.

A theme I had in my mind long ago was Shin Megami Tensei where town would be the neutral alignment, which is against two mini mafia teams (maybe comprised of a leader and minion) with one as Chaos and the other as Law.

Man that sounds so awesome. Much better than most of the list that I assume is just town Vs mafia and some meh 3rd parties. Not even once so far was there a game without 3rd parties anyway XD. I'm part of that problem but yh.

The general gameplay is too samey because the games and the roles are very similar when you think about it.

That's why people are tired. (I'm not at all maybe cos I'm wierd or just that I play wierdly or both. Plus was lucky to keep switching sides each game...)

I considered the idea of giving them the Town character list but that still doesn't solve the fact of them having to find claims on their own if they don't know the theme, and if they do, they could probably figure everyone's abilities by their characters.

Ah that too then. The roles really could be given away easily and that just makes it worse. Mafia will be bored and know who the doc or vig are likely to be...so it's just a dull waiting game for mafia.

 

[praline]

I thought about giving a list for my mafia but the fact that there’s a 2% chance of role claiming the same pokemon in the game made me decide not to.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the reason we haven't had multiball is because we'd need more players.
On most games, Mafia teams had 4 members, so they'd have to be sized down and I already spoke on how I felt about White's 3,5 persons Mafia team.
I think it would only make everyone's life harder: Town needs to deal with more Mafia than usual and has less people on their side and each Mafia faction has to deal with yet another problem.

Not ti mention how quickly the bodies would stack with two kills per Night.

 

[A Distant Demon]

Also giving a list of every townie would probably be a bad idea, since then mafia could probably make guesses on actual roles. Sure some would e hard to guess, but most can guess if a flavor character is a doctor or law enforcement. . .

Not ti mention how quickly the bodies would stack with two kills per Night.

Make them even/odd killers so one faction kills per night? Give one faction a bonus (even if it's just making them an every night kill) if they outlive the entire other faction maybe.

 

[Deleted member]

I was here thinking about the problem with theme games and the obvious solution only now hit me.
Just give the Mafia team a some characters from the theme who are not in the game.
This way, theme becomes just something that adds flavor to the game without centralizing around finding out which character each player is.

This was actually done in an old Brawl Mafia I was in.
I was Lucario, a Mafioso with Meta Knight as a partner. (There were two Mafia teams of two, the "Master Hand" division and the "Crazy Hand" division.)
I was given a fake identity to use in Link. I forget what my partner's was.

 

[Opossum]

When Swamp hosted Ace Attownie, I was one of the mafiosos and Swamp gave us fake claims.

I claimed to be Trucy and was Manfred Von Karma the whole time. It was fun.

 

[Holder of the Heel]

When Swamp hosted Ace Attownie, I was one of the mafiosos and Swamp gave us fake claims.

I claimed to be Trucy and was Manfred Von Karma the whole time. It was fun.

And I claimed to be Larry Butz and was The Godfather Payne, and I used the winking Larry art for my avatar in the hopes of subtly influencing their minds to think he was definitely in the game lol.

 

[Gunla]

Hello there.

When Swamp hosted Ace Attownie, I was one of the mafiosos and Swamp gave us fake claims.

This can be a good thing to do, especially in flavor games - just as long as it doesn't extend into the moderator pushing for a specific outcome. Though the specific instance of Ace Attownie was a bit mafia-aligned, I thought it was relatively a good call as long as there's a method of cracking the claim.

Rolelists work best for themeless mafia (go look at something like Throne of Lies for a good idea), along with keeping the role cards public.

Fools suck when they're done poorly. A fool that just sits there with little abilities and their job is just to get lynched is rather unfun; giving them an ability to manipulate messages would be more interesting. Generally, the Fool favors the mafia, however, and if one exists a more pro-town third party should probably be put in place as well, but that's just my opinion. I will say, I do like how ToL does it (in addition to having an ability to make someone say something of their choice once per day, they can hide twice per game for death immunity at night, or they can make themselves look suspicious at night twice per game). The role feels active and if you're a pretty obvious fool or baiting too hard, the Prince/Knight will take care of you extremely quickly, forcing you to fakeclaim.

Absolutely say if roles fail. Generally I like to keep things in the realm of two things:

• Failing because of night-death immunity, healing or unable to visit target
• Roleblocking

There's a distinction between getting RB'd/occupied and successfully attacking, but your target still living that I think is important to distinguish. If it's too vague, then the game kind of slows down; investigative roles waste more nights, or the mafia has to spent extra days trying to figure out what happened.

No Lynch should really only be an option for Day 1/2 IMO. If you are no lynching past then as Town, you're asking for a loss because you hand the mafia free kills, and if you're no lynching past then as mafia, you're asking for a loss because you look suspicious (and if you're fool, you're asking for someone to just kill you at nighttime).

 

[praline]

So would it be bad if I specifically chose certain players for a couple roles?

Not all roles just a couple.

 

[Wolfie557]

I think maybe having a rule that says players are not allowed to say the name of thier ability ever as part of the no quotes or screenshots would be a good idea.

So names can be there for flavour and they will be revealed upon death,but during the gameplay the players will have to describe that say they can roleblock, instead of naming it Crystal Shard (random thought) that allows me to block people.

Makes finding out who is mafia or town not as easy, and easier for the mafia to claim anything too. Since they don't need to think of a believable name..

So would it be bad if I specifically chose certain players for a couple roles?

Not all roles just a couple.

I think its okay, but less fair for players since when its random everyone has a fair chance of being the doctor, for example. I only chose Z25's role in my game lol.

If to be balances mafia is pretty weak compared to town or very hard to play as than usual, maybe a little maniupation to get the same amount of the best players on each team? But still keep it somewhat random, so say choose 5 players that you think are the best, then randomly give them a role out of 6 specific roles. idk. Ideally roles themselves should balance things enough..

So ultimately random is better imo, but you can choose it's your game.