Olimar vs Bayonetta & Corrin

[Freezie KO]

Hey Olimar boards,

We've got new characters to feed to our pikmin. I know we have a dedicated MU thread, but this thread can serve as a nice introduction to Olimar's unique interactions with the new characters. We don't have to delve into competitive MU ratios.

Here are some things so far (and I'll try to update a few things):

V.S. BAYONETTA

- BEWARE: Witch Time does trigger on pikmin toss (side-B). BUT it appears to depend on the distance that Bayonetta is from Olimar.

If a pikmin is attached to Bayo and she is the full length of FD away from Olimar, she can trigger Witch Time and nothing will happen. If a pikmin is attached to Bayo and she is close to Olimar, she can trigger Witch Time and slow down Olimar even if Olimar does no other attacks.

Potential strategy: Camp from afar, but whistle as soon as Bayo gets close. You may be able to bait a counter. Do not leave pikmin on her when she's close or she'll slow you down, hit with a powerful smash, and kill Olimar early.

- Witch Time definitely works against F-Smash.

- As expected, her neutral B bullets hit pikmin and clank with them.

- I don't believe her "end of combo" bullets stop them. Need confirmation.

- Bayo's grab range is bad. Staying in shield and playing a punish-heavy game may be a good option against her.


V.S. CORRIN

- Pikmin will clank and cancel out the neutral B when thrown into the stun projectile. However, I have yet to be able to stuff it before it comes out (such as can be done with Samus's charge shot). I'm not saying it's impossible to stuff, but we need more research.

- Like many other projectiles, Olimar's fsmash will cancel out the stun ball and continue on with the pikmin hitbox. Hooray!

- Corrin's counter appears to be very powerful, delayed, and very short. I have had a pikmin attached to Corrin when he/she activated the counter and nothing happened. This makes me think the window for counter is very small. On the other hand, it still does trigger on pikmin toss (side-b) like other counters. Unlike other counters, it takes a while to transform into the dragon and do the attack. So if you have a pikmin latched to Corrin, it's not a guaranteed counter, but Corrin may trigger an active counter which looks like it doesn't activate, you rush in, and then get hit with a delayed hitbox. So be careful.

- Corrin's up-b cannot be interrupted with a spike. It appears to override all of our aerials and maintain its active hitbox. Need more testing.

- A good Corrin will use her side-b Dragon Fang to mix up many movement options. This allows him/her to stick into the ground and then attack forward, backward, or just cancel. When Corrin gets stuck into the ground, Olimar cannot shield grab him/her. You will get punished! Corrin is elevated above the floor while "stuck in the ground" and our grab box travels along the floor.

Okay, that's the bad news about her side-b. No shield grabs. The good news is that Corrin will rarely be able to actually pin us because our hurt box is so small.

- Corrin appears to be some sort of water dragon, and typically stun moves have electrical properties. So far I haven't found any elemental pikmin tricks, but this needs testing.

- Be careful about trying to catch Corrin's landings with dash grabs. Her bair can adjust her landing spot with her dragon wings.

- Her recovery sucks, so an offstage gimp game or just throwing purples offstage may work well for Olimar.


V.S. UMBRA TOWER

- Why not? Anything?

 

[Swop]

Pikmin latched to Bayo will indeed Trigger Witch time, but Olimar will not be affected if he isn't Nearby.

Also, I've tested his F-Smash against her, if Olimar is at a range from Bayo (like late hit wise) he will not be triggered by Witch time.

Also, if a pikmin is Latched to Corrin (especially Yellow pikmin I think), Corrin will not be able to use their Neutral B as it cancels immediately.

 

[Freezie KO]

Also, I've tested his F-Smash against her, if Olimar is at a range from Bayo (like late hit wise) he will not be triggered by Witch time.

That's great. Now we know the precise distance for not just smash attacks, but I'm assuming the distance is the same for latched pikmin. Anything within normal fsmash range can be Witch Timed.

Also, if a pikmin is Latched to Corrin (especially Yellow pikmin I think), Corrin will not be able to use their Neutral B as it cancels immediately.

Okay. Interesting. I wasn't able to stuff it immediately when I had pikmin latched on. I'm assuming this is like Samus's charge shot then, where it depends on the spot the pikmin is latched onto (i.e. the front of the character).

 

[Swop]

I'm assuming this is like Samus's charge shot then, where it depends on the spot the pikmin is latched onto (i.e. the front of the character).

Yeah basically, like Megaman or Samus, depends if the pikmin is latched onto the front of them.

 

[StripedNinja]

Corrins Fsmash will clank with our projectiles (fsmash, purple side B) but the hitboxes of the projectiles will remain active and still hit corrins hot bod. Which is nice, keep purps on hand per usual.
Also neither yellow nor blue pikmin are immune to neutral B.

 

[Freezie KO]

Playing more, I think Bayo will be bad MU for us. We can't really rely on pikmin toss because of Witch Time. If Bayo gets close, the chip damage isn't worth dying for.

Her diving kick approaches at an angle that is difficult for Olimar to deal with, especially since we rely on pivot grabs and pivot fsmashes that cover a horizontal approach.

Her side-b appears to have really weird properties. It seems like a great approach against us. It can't be pivot grabbed since we just get hit. I'm not sure what trades. Sometimes fsmash trades, but sometimes not. Dtilt sometimes trades? Does anyone have any tips for her side-b approach?

Her flying kicks and multiple up b moves also make it difficult to catch her landings. Her smashes kill us at 70-80%. Basically, we need to abuse her frame data, but it's difficult without pikmin toss as a viable tool.

 

[The Green Lanyard]

Her side-b appears to have really weird properties. It seems like a great approach against us. It can't be pivot grabbed since we just get hit. I'm not sure what trades. Sometimes fsmash trades, but sometimes not. Dtilt sometimes trades? Does anyone have any tips for her side-b approach?

Dsmash seems to stuff grounded side b safely, though the pikmin does die in the process.

Her diving kick approaches at an angle that is difficult for Olimar to deal with, especially since we rely on pivot grabs and pivot fsmashes that cover a horizontal approach.

Pikmin Toss can at least block it the way it does Sheik's bouncing fish.

 

[Freezie KO]

Dsmash seems to stuff grounded side b safely, though the pikmin does die in the process.

Pikmin Toss can at least block it the way it does Sheik's bouncing fish.

Thanks. I didn't know either of these. Dsmash clanks then? It doesn't score a hit, correct?

As for pikmin toss, I'm still trying to figure out when I should be using this. I'm terrified she's just going to run close and Witch Time with a pikmin attached to her.

 

[The Green Lanyard]

Dsmash hits her and does damage to her, with no damage to you.

Not sure how to apply this to Olimar (maybe throwing purples), but with Villager, I've sometimes been able to get away with launching a Lloid and buffering an airdodge/roll so that if she Witch Times it up close, I'm invulnerable for a lot of (if not all of) that time. It essentially keeps me safe and stales her counter.

But it'll probably still be important to have latched Pikmin on her, at least when she's far away. And at least learning what a safe distance for calling them back is, as she approaches.

 

[Freezie KO]

I know we all realize how bad Bayonetta is by now, but I find Corrin to be a really terrible match up also.

I didn't realize how bad it was at first, but we don't have the mobility to get around hopping/approaching dragon shots. Dragon shot has very low cool down, so we're lucky to punish.

Worse, her side b is terrible for Olimar. And that's mostly how she moves around the stage. With side b hops over Olimar's great pivot fsmash and pivot grab options.

Her fsmash outranges ours. She's heavier. Her disjoint is a problem in the air. And the main issue with her smashes (that they clank) isn't a problem against us because pikmin clank too.

 

[Remi45]

I don't want to make a whole new thread, but I honestly cannot beat a Corrin player, at all.

What am I meant to be doing?

As for bayonetta I haven't had any problems with her so far, her frame data isn't that great, I probably haven't play vs a good one yet though.

 

[Blue Banana]

I don't want to make a whole new thread, but I honestly cannot beat a Corrin player, at all.

What am I meant to be doing?

As for bayonetta I haven't had any problems with her so far, her frame data isn't that great, I probably haven't play vs a good one yet though.

Did you look at the matchup thread? There's a link under the Archived Discussions spoiler that goes to the discussion on Corrin. There are a few posts on Corrin if you haven't seen them yet.