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Olimar general discussion

N.A.G.A.C.E

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I wanted to make a post about winning a small tourney with my day 2 olimar, but then I saw there was no where for me to post that made sense. So to rectify this problem here is a olimar general discussion thread. (all boards should have one).
 

GrizzleDrizz1ed

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I wanted to make a post about winning a small tourney with my day 2 olimar, but then I saw there was no where for me to post that made sense. So to rectify this problem here is a olimar general discussion thread. (all boards should have one).
Nice! What characters did you fight against?
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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Nice! What characters did you fight against?
well like i said it was a small toruney so i didnt get to fight to many different people and the competition was not the strongest. that being said i fought a ganon, ivy, tl, and a falco in tourney. The hardest match i played was against anti who happens to live close to the venue and showed up for a short time (but didn't enter the tourney). He went marth in a friendly and I won but it was a very close match. Other friendlies I played I faced a link, roy, mk, and sonic.


So about falco, I read that after a up throw i should be able to get under him and start up-smashing and stuff but at low %'s he landed before i could do anything and he di'ed so i couldn't chain grab so i am not really sure what to do against him. Also not sure how to gimp him unless he goes low and has to up b. Also lasers are annoying and olimar's shield seems to get stabbed pretty quickly by pillars. I assume i would find fox difficult as well so thoughts on that mu would also be helpful.
 

GrizzleDrizz1ed

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Falco is a trip to fight sometimes. I think you are able to Dsmash him after the Uthrow. I feel like you could Uthrow him > DA > Usmash chain. Haven't tried it yet but in theory it should work. You could also DD and go for a regrab on the get up.
 

Matthew

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well like i said it was a small toruney so i didnt get to fight to many different people and the competition was not the strongest. that being said i fought a ganon, ivy, tl, and a falco in tourney. The hardest match i played was against anti who happens to live close to the venue and showed up for a short time (but didn't enter the tourney). He went marth in a friendly and I won but it was a very close match. Other friendlies I played I faced a link, roy, mk, and sonic.


So about falco, I read that after a up throw i should be able to get under him and start up-smashing and stuff but at low %'s he landed before i could do anything and he di'ed so i couldn't chain grab so i am not really sure what to do against him. Also not sure how to gimp him unless he goes low and has to up b. Also lasers are annoying and olimar's shield seems to get stabbed pretty quickly by pillars. I assume i would find fox difficult as well so thoughts on that mu would also be helpful.
I also find fox and Falco to be a pretty hard matchup because they fall so fast, making it almost to juggle at low percents. If you have a blue pikmin, use it for an up-throw and it can put spacies just high enough in the air to start an up-smash combo. Sometimes it is better to use up-tilt instead because it has a larger hitbox than up-smash. If you are getting shield stabbed by pillars, the best option is probably to either roll or up-smash out of shield. I played Chillindude once and I got a trade with an up-smash out of shield when he was pressuring me with shine and down airs. Even though it was a trade, it will still get them off your back and set up for more combos.
 
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N.A.G.A.C.E

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Going to a bigger smash tourney today going to use oli some but mostly likely wont go pure oli like yesterday. I will report how i do but a bit of a pre john i have trouble in tourneys when i play both pm and melee. I find it hard to switch between games so i might get bopped.
 
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GrizzleDrizz1ed

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Going to a bigger smash tourney today going to use oli some but mostly likely wont go pure oli like yesterday. I will report how i do but a bit of a pre john i have trouble in tourneys when i play both pm and melee. I find it hard to switch between games so i might get bopped.
It's crazy, I can't play Melee anymore. It's just not fun anymore compared to PM. I'll take 64 or Melee over Brawl anyday but I just have so much more fun with PM. Going from Melee Ness to PM Ness is so crazy. PM Ness can do so much more. I've essentially dropped all other smashes completly.

I do think though that if you play any of the top 6 in Melee, it's fine to go back and forth between the two, but weaker characters are harder to continue playing.
 

Matthew

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I am an Olimar main and I also find fox and Falco to be a pretty hard matchup because they fall so fast, making it almost to juggle at low percents. If you have a blue pikmin, use it for an up-throw and it can put spacies just high enough in the air to start an up-smash combo. Sometimes it is better to use up-tilt instead because it has a larger hitbox than up-smash. If you are getting shield stabbed by pillars, the best option is probably to either roll or up-smash out of shield. I played Chillindude once and I got a trade with an up-smash out of shield when he was pressuring me with shine and down airs. Even though it was a trade, it will still get them off your back and set up for more combos.
Going to a bigger smash tourney today going to use oli some but mostly likely wont go pure oli like yesterday. I will report how i do but a bit of a pre john i have trouble in tourneys when i play both pm and melee. I find it hard to switch between games so i might get bopped.
I am going to a big tournament tomorrow so I will see how far I can get with Olimar.
 

N.A.G.A.C.E

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So i didnt use olimar as much as i wanted b/c i was nervous about some mu's such as ness and diddy. but i did use him in friendlies and beat a snake in tourney. i didnt do great in pm but in my defense i stopped caring about pm once i got to gf in melee. So i just kinda played for fun so it didnt effect my mood/mentality going into melee. and I won melee so i am going to say that worked and was a good idea. tomorrow is a 3rd tourney and also a big one I might go but atm i am feeling pretty wiped. but i really like olimar and did very well today when I used him and its only a day 3 oli so pretty psyched about that. Hope this was written well but idk I'm fried.
 

B.W.

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well like i said it was a small toruney so i didnt get to fight to many different people and the competition was not the strongest. that being said i fought a ganon, ivy, tl, and a falco in tourney. The hardest match i played was against anti who happens to live close to the venue and showed up for a short time (but didn't enter the tourney). He went marth in a friendly and I won but it was a very close match. Other friendlies I played I faced a link, roy, mk, and sonic.


So about falco, I read that after a up throw i should be able to get under him and start up-smashing and stuff but at low %'s he landed before i could do anything and he di'ed so i couldn't chain grab so i am not really sure what to do against him. Also not sure how to gimp him unless he goes low and has to up b. Also lasers are annoying and olimar's shield seems to get stabbed pretty quickly by pillars. I assume i would find fox difficult as well so thoughts on that mu would also be helpful.
Use D-Throw and tech chase first for damage. If they miss the tech you can start U-Smash juggles while they're laying on the ground.

Works for both Falco and Fox as well as Wolf.
 

Matthew

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I went to a tournament yesterday and I played againt chudat, seagull, azen, and vanguard. Ness seems to be becoming a much more popular character. I have learned to deal with the matchup better. When hit with pk fire, quarter circle di out of it as fast as possible. When Ness down-throws you, you must di forward or else he will get a free bair. When dealing with Falco, try to play on a stage with many platforms (I suggest Yoshi's story because it has a low cieling). Once Falco is at a moderate percent, use the platforms to extend Olimar's up air and up-smash combos. This will cause Falco serious damage. I wanted to pick a low ceiling stage in my set with seagull, but he banned Yoshi's story and warioware. He banned another, but I cannot remember which one.
 

Seagull Joe

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I went to a tournament yesterday and I played againt chudat, seagull, azen, and vanguard. Ness seems to be becoming a much more popular character. I have learned to deal with the matchup better. When hit with pk fire, quarter circle di out of it as fast as possible. When Ness down-throws you, you must di forward or else he will get a free bair. When dealing with Falco, try to play on a stage with many platforms (I suggest Yoshi's story because it has a low cieling). Once Falco is at a moderate percent, use the platforms to extend Olimar's up air and up-smash combos. This will cause Falco serious damage. I wanted to pick a low ceiling stage in my set with seagull, but he banned Yoshi's story and warioware. He banned another, but I cannot remember which one.
FoD is always the third stage I ban.

:018:
 

steelguttey

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I went to a tournament yesterday and I played againt chudat, seagull, azen, and vanguard. Ness seems to be becoming a much more popular character. I have learned to deal with the matchup better. When hit with pk fire, quarter circle di out of it as fast as possible. When Ness down-throws you, you must di forward or else he will get a free bair. When dealing with Falco, try to play on a stage with many platforms (I suggest Yoshi's story because it has a low cieling). Once Falco is at a moderate percent, use the platforms to extend Olimar's up air and up-smash combos. This will cause Falco serious damage. I wanted to pick a low ceiling stage in my set with seagull, but he banned Yoshi's story and warioware. He banned another, but I cannot remember which one.
how did that matchup vs chu go? i swear if you were playing olimar and knocked out chu then i consider you god
 
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Matthew

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how did that matchup vs chu go? i swear if you were playing olimar and knocked out chu then i consider you god
It was actually really funny. We both chose Olimar on FD and everyone told us to throw all of our pikmin off stage so we played without them. Chu was beating me with solimar, but after we both decided to use pikmin, I took the lead. We did not get to finish our match because people had to play a tourney match.
 
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Hevy_Santana

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Lmao Solimar !

I went to my first tournament today. Missed registration by 10 minutes. Was so upset. But then had best seats in the house to watch PM grandfinals and played hours of friendlies. I was the only Olimar player there. Everyone I played was surprised I played Olimar because they've never played one / seen one in during a tournament or event for PM. I just recently picked up PM so im not amazing but I had a lot of support to keep on as an Olimar main. It was a good day.
 

B.W.

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Yeah I know how that is. I'm known as the only Olimar player in my state who actually performs well with him. To an extent.

Sadly I don't play him as much as I used to. MMs and friendlies he still comes out, but he rarely sees tournament play anymore.
 

B.W.

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Mostly because RNG makes it very hard for Olimar's strengths to stay consistent. Having no control over what comes next is a pretty big weakness when it's the main part of the character.

Other than that, the AI for Pikmin is wonky and has been getting me killed recently. Which is funny because it didn't used to.
 

Hevy_Santana

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Yea I feel the same way honestly. The more I play the more I feel that Olimar takes a lot of patience and strategy as well consistent luck to do well most of the time.
 

B.W.

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He does. And I know I perform well with the first two (patience and strategy). I'm the only Olimar that I've seen that actively whistles to reorganize my Pikmin to plan ahead in extending combos/chaingrabs. No offense to other good Olimar players of course, but most people just seem to go with what they got.

The RNG makes it hard though, because when you keep pulling yellows and whites instead of Purples and Blues, then you have a problem because you lack power. Lately it's become frustrating to deal with the RNG, but if they ever make Olimar pluck Pikmin in a fixed order I might go back to the character.
 

Hevy_Santana

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I tend to not have the best of luck so at times I find myself throwing Pikmin off stage to try to get a better assortment of colors that I can work with. In a match I had today I had 3 blues and a yellow, I was fighting a Roy and needed more power so I kept throwing them off stage until I ended up with 2 purples a yellow and a red but the whole process gets tedious and always puts me in such a bad position. But I only do this if im completely desperate for a better line up in that moment / have an opportunity to do that.

I feel like just dealing with the randomness and using it to your advantage somehow is what makes you a better player in the long run. I hope in the next update something gets buffed just to give him a little more of a fighting chance in a lot of matchups.
 
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GrizzleDrizz1ed

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DK Ftilted my Fsmash and just slapped my Pikmin away without taking any damage. For realz Pikmin, get some priority, enough to at least trade. DK can also Dair my Usmash and cut through my Pikmin without taking damage.

Is this something that's unique to Olimar? Do any other characters have moves that just get cut through? Not only that, but as they cut through the Pikmin, it extends the animation and Hitbox. So it feels like DK's (I know other characters have the same effect but I'm just picking on DK for now) Fair and Neutral B are even more effective against Olimar.
 

Matthew

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I played against a DK at a recent tournament. I had the lead for most of the game, but he made a comeback and won. Try to abuse pikmin throw to force an approach and punish with a grab. Chaingrab with down-throw and a well spaced dair can out-prioritize (or at least trade with) Dk's up-special and put him low enough under the stage to not be able to recover. If Dk is dairing your up-smash, try up-air instead because it has much more priority. hope this helps.
 

GrizzleDrizz1ed

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It's weird, I feel like I fight the best DK. Probably not but it feels like it. He does things that other people never do. Fair > Jab > Grab combos, Cargo throw jumping off the edge into Fair which hits 70% of the time depending on if he guesses right. Pikmin Throw to force an approach doesn't threaten him as he can Nair them off effortlessly or Nair into you. His Jab is at the perfect distance where he can jab and you can't grab him. If you do, he can get out before he reaches you and then jab > Grab combo you.

My point however wasn't much about how to fight DK better, but more asking if other characters have their attacks ignored and cut through. Can you think of any? And to the extent that Olimar has to deal with?
 

Matthew

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I cannot name any other characters that have their moves cut through like olimar. Olimar does have a lot of trouble gainst characters who out-prioritize him. Although I do know that Meta Knight's dair has almost no priority, and I dont think that Sonic's spin dash has that much priority. the further away a pikmin hits on a smash attack, the less priority it has.
 
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Hevy_Santana

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I know Foxs lasers go right thru my pikmin, The pikmin cant touch lucas if he magnets or if i get a pikmin on lucas there has been many times where he just magnets and they come off of him.
 

B.W.

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Pikmin have okay priority, but F-Smash does not. You should never be using F-Smash ever except to edge guard sometimes.

Also Fox lasers shouldn't go through Pikmin because even though the lasers are transcendent and Pikmin are transcendent Pikmin have a hitbox.
 

GrizzleDrizz1ed

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So do you guys think this is a problem that they should address in the upcoming update? The way I see it is, If the sword users have a disjointed Hitbox that has High Priority and can Clank if it doesn't beat it, then Olimar's Pikmin should at least be a disjoint that can Trade. Another note to it is that Olimars Pikmin can die and get lost, which Swords do not, And they are used for recovery.

Do you think I'm asking too much?
 

B.W.

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I think it's fine as is. Them having hitboxes has its uses too.
 
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Matthew

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I usually only use forward smash when it is perfectly spaced against certain characters so that if I wiff, it is difficult to punish. Other than that I sometomes use it for mixups, edgeguarding, and hard reads. I don't just aimlessly throw it out.
 
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Matthew

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I think it's fine as is. Them having hitboxes has its uses too.
Because pikmin have hitboxes, you can stop any projectile whether it be a fully charged charge shot or an aura bomb. You can even use pikmin to safley get rid of the mines that snake plants in the ground.
 
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GrizzleDrizz1ed

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I think it's fine as is. Them having hitboxes has its uses too.
Because pikmin have hitboxes, you can stop any projectile whether it be a fully charged charge shot or an aura bomb. You can even use pikmin to safley get rid of the mines that snake plants in the ground.
Sure they can do those things from a safer distance than Marth or Ike, but they also have the massive disadvantage of being able to be ignored, allowing the opponent to steamroll through your attack. No damage trade, No knockback trade, just a crushing blow to your face. I feels like I play with a character that has a disjoint, but reeps little benifit from it.
 

GrizzleDrizz1ed

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lets talk about this more. what matchups do pikmin have the most usefulness in terms of blocking attacks?
Regarding projectiles, not many. Since they will take take damage and die, get knocked into oblivion, possibly arch over the projectile and miss, the fact that they are part of Olimars arsinal means that he can't spam them and double as a threat. In most cases like Link, Diddy, Samus, Mario and a few other, Olimar does not have an "unlimited" supply of spamable projectiles, as well as be able to use them as a solid approach like the above characters mentioned. (not counting the coveted Purple)

As far as blocking actual attacks in an Olimar Attack Vs Opponent Attack, I'd say virtually none. I think most characters either out prioritize him, or they have a bigger and better disjoint. I do wonder what would happen in an Olimar Uair vs a Link Dair. I figure the first would hit the Pikmin and the second would hit Olimar, not sure though.

This isn't to say that Olimar looses on priority to every move, but I do think he looses to more than his fair share, along with no penalty to the opponent during the clash.
 

B.W.

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Pikmin have more HP than you give them credit for. The only time Pikmin can be hit is when they're out of line or active so it's not like someone can just aim for them and kill them off.

Every Pikmin can survive some of the most damaging attacks in the game as well. Rarely do I see Pikmin other than White die from being hit. They're much more likely to due from committing suicide than from taking hits.

Also tend to throw my Pikmin at projector heavy characters in general. There are stone projectiles you have to watch our for like Link's arrows and ROBs laser but for the most part Pikmin will stop the projectile from existing. And in Purple's case it will usually beat the projectile completely which is really useful against Link's boomerang in particular.
 
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Matthew

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Regarding projectiles, not many. Since they will take take damage and die, get knocked into oblivion, possibly arch over the projectile and miss, the fact that they are part of Olimars arsinal means that he can't spam them and double as a threat. In most cases like Link, Diddy, Samus, Mario and a few other, Olimar does not have an "unlimited" supply of spamable projectiles, as well as be able to use them as a solid approach like the above characters mentioned. (not counting the coveted Purple)

As far as blocking actual attacks in an Olimar Attack Vs Opponent Attack, I'd say virtually none. I think most characters either out prioritize him, or they have a bigger and better disjoint. I do wonder what would happen in an Olimar Uair vs a Link Dair. I figure the first would hit the Pikmin and the second would hit Olimar, not sure though.

This isn't to say that Olimar looses on priority to every move, but I do think he looses to more than his fair share, along with no penalty to the opponent during the clash.
Link's dair beats Olimar's upair (at least Toon Link's does, but I am sure Link's does as well), and Olimar's up-air is definitely his best aerial (because of combo ability, not priority). Olimar's aerials beat out a lot of muves such as Ness' pk thunder recovery, whirling fortress, Dk up-special and many more, you just need to space them well. Olimar just has huge disadvantages against matchups like Marth and Ike. A Shiek with good spacing is also a huge threat to Olimar. For those matchups, I would suggest a character swap. Btw DK's nair has invincibility on the arms.
 
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B.W.

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It beats Link's. It doesn't lose to Toon Link's but it doesn't beat it either.

It's a stalemate really.
 

Matthew

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It beats Link's. It doesn't lose to Toon Link's but it doesn't beat it either.

It's a stalemate really.
So you mean a trade? I remember challenging Toon Link's dair, but I guess I was not spacing the up-air Properly. Does it only work with certain types of pikmin? I know that purple pikmin have lots of priority and yellow pikmin have larger hitboxes.
 
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B.W.

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It's not a trade because neither character takes damage.

T.Link bounces off the Pikmin, and neither character takes damage.

It works with all Pikmin, yes.

Also Yellow doesn't have larger hitboxes on all of its moves anymore.

U-Air, U-Smash, and D-Air are all the same size as other Pikmin. Other hitboxes have been toned down to only be very slightly bigger in most cases.

Yellow is pretty much the worst Pikmin to have.
 

steelguttey

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yellow sucks and i wish it wouldnt exist. its good for the pikachu matchup and thats it.
 
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