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Official SWF Matchup Chart v2.0

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bubbaking

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Nah you can get really hard punishes if you can throw DK off-stage (either right off the bat, or string an aerial into a grab) - cause bair out-ranges up-b. It can be worth it even without Rest.
Puff's bair out-ranges DK's upB? :crazy: That's kinda confusing considering you also said:
You're getting hit by it in the first place because it's fast and has a big hitbox...
Wouldn't those very things make DK's upB beat Puff's bair? :confused:
 

infiniteV115

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He knows that.

Notice how he said it's better to lose (unless there's a lot of money at stake) even BEFORE I accepted his challenge?

You people over there in Australia have the most exotic johns. Do your johns also have pouches in the lower abdomen and hop around everywhere saying "G'DAY MATE"?
 

Grim Tuesday

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You're coming to Apex? O.o
Alright. $20 :zerosuitsamus:::jigglypuff:?
Nah I'm not going to Apex

I should be able to go to America at some point next year though

Oh man, that sounds like a bad idea. Doesn't Jiggs count on her mobility for practically all MUs? ZSS is pretty mobile...
Yep must be -4

He knows that.

Notice how he said it's better to lose (unless there's a lot of money at stake) even BEFORE I accepted his challenge?

You people over there in Australia have the most exotic johns. Do your johns also have pouches in the lower abdomen and hop around everywhere saying "G'DAY MATE"?
I don't know that I'll lose, I'm just saying that I primarily want the MM for experience and practice rather than pride or money

they'd be a nice bonus though
 

bubbaking

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You can still learn things about the MU, especially if your opponent gets salty every time he loses (like John12346). Besides, John and I have had multiple competitive sets for spots on our university's PR, so I've had multiple friendlies with him as well as sets that mattered.

Edit: John and I clash for the PR's of practically every Smash, including P:M and not including 64. Luckily for me, I'm above him (#1) in all of them except Brawl (he's #1 in that; I'm just #3 :().
 

Grim Tuesday

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Makes sense.

But yeah, money on the line is guaranteed try hard for most people, so I prefer it to friendlies.

Also V115 would have no Puff experience and I have a lot of ZSS experience, which probably means something.
 

bubbaking

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So Apollo can beat Tedeth and Apollo is the ZSS you play with? I can understand your desire to apply the transitive property of defeat, but those matches are friendlies, good sir, and you just told me that friendlies don't matter. :smirk:

#NotThatICare

Edit: Ninja'd by V.

Edit 2: Holy cow, the music goes off-key so many times! (>.<)
 

Grim Tuesday

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What's the transitive property of defeat? Cause I feel like whatever it was you said was really cool, but I don't get it lol

I essentially just felt that that video was a better indication of how good Apollo is than other matches I could've linked to. Me saying friendlies don't matter at all was hyperbole, dw.
 

bubbaking

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In case you are unfamiliar with it, the transitive property of equality is, "For any quantities a, b, and c, if a = b and b = c, then a = c."

Ninja'd

Edit: Only watched the first two matches, but from what I saw, those friendlies were of Tedeth solidly beating Apollo. Apollo certainly seemed like a solid ZSS, but I found quite a few of his decisions questionable. :ohwell:
 

Grim Tuesday

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Edit: Only watched the first two matches, but from what I saw, those friendlies were of Tedeth solidly beating Apollo. Apollo certainly seemed like a solid ZSS, but I found quite a few of his decisions questionable. :ohwell:
I wasn't trying to make a case for how good Apollo is or anything

I just brought up that I had ZSS experience, and you said "what if he's bad", so I let you decide XD

I can give V115 all the Puff experience he needs.
lol
 

infiniteV115

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I don't need Puff experience to beat Grim. Grim said so himself that experience doesn't really make a significant difference when it comes to Jiggs' MUs (he did this to justify using Hungrybox vs Swordgard in crew battles at IMPULSE as an argument for the MU being -1 Jiggs)
 

hell-dew

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Are you the Pikachu I played at the end of that one smashfest and I was showing you how you were rolling too much by waiting for you to roll and punishing it with dsmash/dash attack?

If so...**** I still don't remember what you look like >.<
yeah that >.<. after pointing that out ive been working on that more its a bad reflex. i have some terrible habits that need some work against people to many . I seriously wish smash feast wasn't on fridays >.< its literally the only day of the week that is hard as heck to get off.


il become way more active though over the next while. Ive been practice far more often after getting a good idea as to what the heck everyone in our region uses.

and @ pidgezero_one that was a hilarious game definitely need another rematch on that one. hopefully time wont be to much of a prob
 

Luco

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So Apollo can beat Tedeth and Apollo is the ZSS you play with? I can understand your desire to apply the transitive property of defeat, but those matches are friendlies, good sir, and you just told me that friendlies don't matter. :smirk:

#NotThatICare

Edit: Ninja'd by V.

Edit 2: Holy cow, the music goes off-key so many times! (>.<)
Hehe, I noticed the music too. It was painful...

Btw, i'm not sure whether that really show-cased anything ha, anyone notice how in that first game, all three of wario's kills were farts? That should tell you something lol. <3

Come to think of it, I remember versing Ted at my first tournament... He 2-stocked me, everyone was going 'What are you doing ted if he's taking a stock off you?' As much as I realize they were probs kidding at it wasn't that great, I felt pretty proud of my first tournament. "Above average", I was told, thus why I keep going. =)
 

Neon!

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It's probably smaller than x1 but it's still easy to SDI down. It doesn't have much vertical range in the first place, and the fact that DK is rising makes it easier.
Characters like Falco and fox who fall faster have a harder time getting out of DK's aerial up-b
http://youtu.be/0PrGB_vJi-k?t=2m47s

The second time I my up-b connects in this video falco's only option is to try sdi'ing out to the right which is the same direction i'm pushing him. With good SDI I'm sure that combo could have been avoided but he still would have taken a fair amount of damage.
 

bubbaking

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I don't need Puff experience to beat Grim. Grim said so himself that experience doesn't really make a significant difference when it comes to Jiggs' MUs (he did this to justify using Hungrybox vs Swordgard in crew battles at IMPULSE as an argument for the MU being -1 Jiggs)
What kind of MU exists that you don't need experience in? That just sounds counter-intuitive to Smash in general... Also, is Hbox really a high-level Brawl Jiggs player? :ohwell:
 

Grim Tuesday

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High level Brawl jiggs is an oxymoron

Having Puff experience will always help, her playstyle is pretty unique and a lot of the things she does (like crossing up shields regularly) are alien to a lot of players.

But with that said, if you understand the fundamentals of her weaknesses and are as skilled as the Puff player you don't need to know specific situations and ****
 

Luco

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Aha... a -3 kind of MU, that's not impossible, it's just you only have a few, usually spammable tactics that are more or less guaranteed. What's Bowser got here, out of curiosity? He must have something, right? :)
 
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